Private social insurance / Foreigner

[Oohwan]

Hello Forum,

 

Recently I lost my job and I am now on unemployment / social security benefits for the next 6 months.

 

I was told by the social security office that after 3 months have passed I would be able to apply for private social insurance directly with them for a fee of  approximately 479 baht per month.

 

Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

I am single and not married to a Thai.

 

Thank you for your input.

[Sheryl]

I think they were referring to the health insurance part and yes, if you pay privately you can keep it, for life, even if you don't work again.

 

It is definitely well worth having. Note that you usually have a choice of hospitals to be registered at, choose with care.

[TerryLH]

You should be able to sign up as soon as you lose eligibility through employment.

My suggestion is to not wait for 3 months.  

 

To be eligible you needed to pay into the system for 12 or 13 months.

[Oohwan]

Thank you both for your responses.

 

Yes I was referring to health insurance, and I paid into the system for the past 10 years.

 

It really surprises me knowing I can keep it for life  especially for less than 15 USD per month.   

 

I've had some co-workers over the years who have had some major surgeries paid for entirely by the Thai health insurance.  I am sure they would have been extremely costly if they didn't have it.   

 

@Sheryl - You mention to choose with care, is there a national hospital within the country which you would recommend over any other?  Can you also give me a recommendation on a private supplement insurance  to cover the things which the Thai social insurance wouldn't cover?  I have heard such things as cancel treatments wouldn't be covered?  

[Sheryl]

The SS will cover everything, unless a drug is required that is not on the Ministry of Public Health's drug list.  Otherwise the only limitation is that your coverage is limited to the hospital where you are registered, or to a higher level facility that they refer you to - hence the importance of choosing the hospital carefully. You do not have a country-wide choice, it is restricted by where you live.  Also, you can only change hospitals during specific times of the year.  The SS office can give you a list of hospitals in your area which register  SS clients. IF you can tell me what hospital you are currently registered with and what the other options are (and where you live!) I can advise further.

 

There is no need to wait for any time to pass but there is a limited time within which you can enroll on a private pay basis - I am not sure how long but this might be the 3 months  mentioned i.e. it is not after 3 months but within 3 months. If you do not pay within the required time period you lose the option permanently.

 

There are no supplemental insurance policies in Thailand and no internationally issued policies I am aware of that work as supplement to Thai SS. . You would have to get a regular insurance policy, which of course would be costly. The advantage to it is that it gives you a choice of hospitals (and hence wider choice of doctors). I think that is well worthwhile for someone who can afford it but probably not for someone unemployed/between jobs.

[Oohwan]

On 4/15/2017 at 0:25 PM, Sheryl said:

The SS will cover everything, unless a drug is required that is not on the Ministry of Public Health's drug list.  Otherwise the only limitation is that your coverage is limited to the hospital where you are registered, or to a higher level facility that they refer you to - hence the importance of choosing the hospital carefully. You do not have a country-wide choice, it is restricted by where you live.  Also, you can only change hospitals during specific times of the year.  The SS office can give you a list of hospitals in your area which register  SS clients. IF you can tell me what hospital you are currently registered with and what the other options are (and where you live!) I can advise further.

 

There is no need to wait for any time to pass but there is a limited time within which you can enroll on a private pay basis - I am not sure how long but this might be the 3 months  mentioned i.e. it is not after 3 months but within 3 months. If you do not pay within the required time period you lose the option permanently.

 

There are no supplemental insurance policies in Thailand and no internationally issued policies I am aware of that work as supplement to Thai SS. . You would have to get a regular insurance policy, which of course would be costly. The advantage to it is that it gives you a choice of hospitals (and hence wider choice of doctors). I think that is well worthwhile for someone who can afford it but probably not for someone unemployed/between jobs.

 

At this time I am registered at Mission Hospital located located Phuket, and I get my prescriptions filled at Vachira Hospital. For one reason or another Mission hospital's pharmacy does not distribute the medication that I need. I haven't had any problems with either of these two facilities, but I do prefer Mission as it is not too full with people on a daily basis. Both hospitals seem to have a MRI machines if this counts for anything.

 

Soon I will be moving to the outskirts of Khon Kaen, so I would appreciate any recommendations you can give. 

 

The reason I am asking about private insurance is because I've heard rumors that if I were to get a terminal illness such as cancer, or needed dialysis on a daily basis, social insurance would not cover such treatments?  If this is the case, I would be more than willing to pay for a private policy employed or unemployed. 

 

[Sheryl]

Thai SS will certainly cover you if you have a terminal illness.  As regards dialysis:

 

"

"Medical expense in case of kidney dialysis

The insured that has been afflicted with chronic kidney disease of final stage and has been granted approval as a person entitled to medical care cover in the case of kidney therapy shall be subject to the terms and conditions and the rate of medical treatment service as prescribed by the Zone Office of Social Security as follows:

1. The cost of hemodialysis payable to the hospital under agreement, which provides hemodialysis service to the insured at the rate of not exceeding 1,500 Baht per each kidney hemodialysis and not exceeding 3,000 Baht per week.
2. The cost of Chronic Peritoneal Dialysis (CPD) payable to the hospital under agreement and that provides service to the insured as actually incurred not exceeding 15,000 Baht per month. In the course of the first month of approval, the cost will not exceed 500 Baht per day with effect from the date of entitlement to the end of the month.
3. The cost of kidney transplantation operation procedure is payable to the hospital under agreement that provides service to the insured as follows:
   • Pre-transplantation cost as actually incurred at the rate of not exceeding 30,000 Baht per each insured.
   • Expense in the course of kidney transplant shall be payable in a lump sum amount at the rate not exceeding 230,000 Baht to cover both the insured and the donor of the kidney for a duration of 60 days with effect from the date of kidney transplant including the treatment of the acute condition of kidney rejection of the insured for a duration of 2 years with effect from the date of kidney transplant.
   • The cost of post-kidney transplant operation for the hospital performing the kidney transplant operation on the entitling insured also to cover medical inspection and treatment; immunity suppression medication; laboratory test, urine test; inspection of the level of immunity suppression medication payable in lump sum amount as follows:
     • The 1st year; 1st to 6th month: at 30,000 Baht per month.
     • From the 7th to 12th month: at 20,000 Baht per month.
     • The 2nd year; 1st to 6th month: at 15,000 Baht per month.
     • The 3rd year onward: at 10,000 Baht per month"

 

Frankly there are far more exclusions found in most private policies

[Oohwan]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Frankly there are far more exclusions found in most private policies

So I guess it would be fair to say that Thai social insurance would be better than having a private policy if using a government hospital?

 

What about heart disease and cancer? 

[Sheryl]

As said, it covers pretty much everything. There are no exclusions fo heart disease or cancer. Nor for pre-exisitng conditions.

 

The terms of coverage compare very favorably to private insurance policies - with the sole (and notable) exception of lack of choice of hospital.

 

Mission would indeed be my recommendation for anyone in Phuket. In Khon Kaen, if you can, get registered at Srinigarind (KKU Hospital).

[TerryLH]

I agree with Sheryl that Srinagarind should be at the top of your list, but it might not be available for new SS patients.

 

When you move, you need to go to the SS Office and get assigned to a new hospital here in KK.  They'll let you know which hospitals are available.  

Don't wait too long because there is a delay from the time you re-register until you can actually start using your new hospital.  It's been awhile, but I seem to remember having about a months wait.

 

The SS Office here is very helpful, but you'll need someone who can speak Thai - if you don't.

 

Terry

[davidst01]

This is great news to read this. I had no idea that I would be entitled to this. If I finish my current teaching job of 3 yrs and then move to another province would I be best to enrol in this scheme in my current province before moving or enrol in it in the new province?

[Sheryl]

First of all, are you enrolled in it now? Unless you are already enrolled into it with monthly payroll deductions, you are not eligible. (Private schools are, for some reason, exempt from the requirement to have their employees  enrolled in Social Security.)

 

If you are enrolled, then as soon as you finish working go to the SS office and discuss with them what you need to do to maintain enrollment on an individual pay basis.

 

As coverage is specific to one hospital based on where you live, you will need to enroll where you are going to be living. But there is a limited time period available to maintain coverage - so talk to your local SS office first about how to go about it.

[BruceMangosteen]

As relayed elsewhere, Chonburi province with Social Security offices in Lam Chambang is currently denying change over to private pay for properly insured foreigners. They "require" a "yellow book" or? a "pink ID card". The yellow book requires some proof of permanent residence such as owning the house/condo or? the owner vouching? for you. The pink ID card it seems is rarely issued to foreigners outside of SEA orgin. Allow yourself time to be denied and don't give up. I know someone in the process now and she's only getting oral relief from the "hotline" which indicates it's ridiculous that said SS office has this policy and to just "go to another office". This advice isn't exactly professional but my friend may try. (she's distraught as you can imagine and relate) As we all know, the "other office" will want to send you back to where you came from(the office where you live). The matter may require "administrative court" action which naturally will be expensive and with a foreigner vs. the Thai Government one can imagine the horror. God Bless You and her. 

Edited April 25, 2017 by BruceMangosteen

[Sheryl]

A yellow book does NOT require ownership of a house or condo nor permamanent residence. It is however usually necessary for the person who owns the place where you are staying to go with you to the Ampur, bringing along with their own tabian baan, for you  to get it. Worth the hassle, though. Immigration offices also often ask to see it.

 

Only some amphurs issue the pink ID card (which has nothing to do with the pink migrant worker registration cards, those are entirely different) but presumably one that is asking for it would issue it. from what I gather, easy to get once you have a tabian ban as the yellow tabian ban plus passport are the main requirements.

 

But indeed, neither should be required for SS. What is legitimately  required is proof of identification (passport) and some sort of proof of where you live.

[edwardandtubs]

I was also denied the opportunity to pay for SSO privately after 7 years of paying in through employment. This was in Bangkok and I was shown what looked like a alien residence card or something and told I needed that. We also spoke about where I lived and I told her I rented a condo and she gave me 'mai dai' so I think they need more than 'some sort of proof of where you live'. This happened at 2 separate Bangkok offices - one after 3 months and one after 6. It seems as more than 6 months has expired now I have no chance of paying in privately even if I did get the pink card or yellow book.

[Oohwan]

On 4/25/2017 at 6:04 PM, edwardandtubs said:

I was also denied the opportunity to pay for SSO privately after 7 years of paying in through employment. This was in Bangkok and I was shown what looked like a alien residence card or something and told I needed that. We also spoke about where I lived and I told her I rented a condo and she gave me 'mai dai' so I think they need more than 'some sort of proof of where you live'. This happened at 2 separate Bangkok offices - one after 3 months and one after 6. It seems as more than 6 months has expired now I have no chance of paying in privately even if I did get the pink card or yellow book.

 I think it needs to be done during the first 90 days from the day you stop working. 

 

Ill find out soon with update. 

[edwardandtubs]

22 hours ago, Oohwan said:

 I think it needs to be done during the first 90 days from the day you stop working. 

 

Ill find out soon with update. 

What seems clear is that the people working for the SSO are now under orders to make it as difficult as possible for foreigners to do this. I went to one office within 3 months of the end of my employment and was blatantly told that this was only available to Thai people. When I disputed this I was sent to see another person who said I should come back after 6 months. I went to another office in Bangkok after 6 months because I'd moved and was told I needed the resident card or house book, but by then it was too late.

 

What I'd like to know is if I can still do it on the basis that I did hand in the form within 3 months but it was refused.

 

I personally doubt the 3 months number is valid though as it seems to contradict your 6 months of entitlements. Surely the time when your benefits expire is the same time you have to start paying.

Edited April 27, 2017 by edwardandtubs

[BruceMangosteen]

1 hour ago, edwardandtubs said:

What seems clear is that the people working for the SSO are now under orders to make it as difficult as possible for foreigners to do this. I went to one office within 3 months of the end of my employment and was blatantly told that this was only available to Thai people. When I disputed this I was sent to see another person who said I should come back after 6 months. I went to another office in Bangkok after 6 months because I'd moved and was told I needed the resident card or house book, but by then it was too late.

 

What I'd like to know is if I can still do it on the basis that I did hand in the form within 3 months but it was refused.

 

I personally doubt the 3 months number is valid though as it seems to contradict your 6 months of entitlements. Surely the time when your benefits expire is the same time you have to start paying.

The generally accepted number of months to convert is six. This also coincides with how long you remain insured after termination of employment. Where the three months period came from I have no clue. In the situation I'm involved in, no application was retained or noted. The refusal was after a quick(as in seconds) thumb through of the paperwork(copies required i.e. Work Permit, Passport, existing SS card, proof of contribution, ...). The form requesting payment of the lump sum benefit was accepted and processed. God Bless You and OO.

[BruceMangosteen]

2 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

What seems clear is that the people working for the SSO are now under orders to make it as difficult as possible for foreigners to do this.

Forgot to ask...Were your experiences in 2017 or prior? Thanks and kind regards. OO.

[Oohwan]

Today I went to the SS office, and told them I wanted to self insure myself. My request was processed successfully, and the cost will be 432 baht per month.  I will not be able to receive the 6 month free health eligibility since I had to start paying into the system for this month. 

 

The only documents I provided to them were the ones they gave me to fill out. One of these documents had to be filled out by my bank which authorizes SS to withdraw the money every month.

 

I was also able to get a printout of my total contributions, and the lady working there tried to explain to me how it can be used once I turn 55 years old.  I was told something about being able to cash out my contributions after 180 months paying into the system, but I would lose my health coverage. Another option was to continue paying the 432 up until the day I die, and I would still be able to keep my health coverage. The total amount which I contributed prior to my death would then be given to my beneficiary once I die. 

 

I'll have to go back again next month to show my face for my unemployment benefits.  Once I am there I'll try to get some more information.

 

Here is a link with some Thai SS benefit information. 

 

http://www.sso.go.th/wpr/eng/benefit.html

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Oohwan

[edwardandtubs]

11 hours ago, BruceMangosteen said:

Forgot to ask...Were your experiences in 2017 or prior? Thanks and kind regards. OO.

First experience was December 2016 and the second was March 2017. I'm really annoyed about what's happened and would really like to appeal.

[edwardandtubs]

11 hours ago, Oohwan said:

Today I went to the SS office, and told them I wanted to self insure myself. My request was processed successfully, and the cost will be 432 baht per month.  I will not be able to receive the 6 month free health eligibility since I had to start paying into the system for this month. 

 

The only documents I provided to them were the ones they gave me to fill out. One of these documents had to be filled out by my bank which authorizes SS to withdraw the money every month.

 

I was also able to get a printout of my total contributions, and the lady working there tried to explain to me how it can be used once I turn 55 years old.  I was told something about being able to cash out my contributions after 180 months paying into the system, but I would lose my health coverage. Another option was to continue paying the 432 up until the day I die, and I would still be able to keep my health coverage. The total amount which I contributed prior to my death would then be given to my beneficiary once I die. 

 

I'll have to go back again next month to show my face for my unemployment benefits.  Once I am there I'll try to get some more information.

 

Here is a link with some Thai SS benefit information. 

 

http://www.sso.go.th/wpr/eng/benefit.html

 

Can I ask what office this was at? My poor experiences were Bangkok Prachachuen Road and Srinakarin Road. Also what visa are you on? I wonder if it makes a difference that I'm currently on a tourist visa.

[Oohwan]

 

6 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

Can I ask what office this was at? My poor experiences were Bangkok Prachachuen Road and Srinakarin Road. Also what visa are you on? I wonder if it makes a difference that I'm currently on a tourist visa.

While I was working I had had a non-b visa. When I was laid off the company arranged the paperwork for me to go to the Provincial Employment to claim my unemployment benefits, and then the Provincial Employment office gave me the papers to take to the SS office. Prior to me doing all of this I left the country, and changed my visa to a non-o based on having a Thai child.

 

In regards to the 3 month thing I really didn't understand it myself so I took it upon myself to get it done as soon as possible.

 

Even with a tourist visa you should be able to apply for your benefits.  I have many colleagues who came back on tourist visas, and they haven't had any issues as of yet.

 

Did you go to your local Provincial Employment office when you stopped working? All the paperwork I had, and all the offices I went to were in Phuket.

 

[edwardandtubs]

2 hours ago, Oohwan said:

 

While I was working I had had a non-b visa. When I was laid off the company arranged the paperwork for me to go to the Provincial Employment to claim my unemployment benefits, and then the Provincial Employment office gave me the papers to take to the SS office. Prior to me doing all of this I left the country, and changed my visa to a non-o based on having a Thai child.

 

In regards to the 3 month thing I really didn't understand it myself so I took it upon myself to get it done as soon as possible.

 

Even with a tourist visa you should be able to apply for your benefits.  I have many colleagues who came back on tourist visas, and they haven't had any issues as of yet.

 

Did you go to your local Provincial Employment office when you stopped working? All the paperwork I had, and all the offices I went to were in Phuket.

 

I'm not interested in unemployment benefits - I just want to continue the medical insurance aspect of social security - so I'm not sure what use the Provincial Employment office would be. The SSO were asking for a residence card or house book, neither of which are supplied by the Provincial Employment office.

 

Incidentally, on the website you linked to it says 'The Citizenship Identity Card' is required to claim unemployment benefits. This makes me wonder whether the Phuket SSO are mistakenly paying you something you're not entitled to. I've never heard of any foreigner in Bangkok getting this and it just seems counter-intuitive that you're officially a tourist yet you're claiming benefits on the basis that you're looking for work.

Edited April 28, 2017 by edwardandtubs

[BruceMangosteen]

1 hour ago, edwardandtubs said:

The SSO were asking for a residence card or house book,

Same here in the Chonburi province. This denial was further reinforced today by another expert in the field of getting things done for foreigners. The claim was made it's a new policy or law. Good luck, I'll keep this discussion going as things progress. God Bless You as well, stay healthy. OO.

[Oohwan]

42 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

I'm not interested in unemployment benefits - I just want to continue the medical insurance aspect of social security - so I'm not sure what use the Provincial Employment office would be. The SSO were asking for a residence card or house book, neither of which are supplied by the Provincial Employment office.

 

Incidentally, on the website you linked to it says 'The Citizenship Identity Card' is required to claim unemployment benefits. This makes me wonder whether the Phuket SSO are mistakenly paying you something you're not entitled to.

The documents from the Provincial Employment office inform the SS office that your employment was terminated, and for what particular reason.  There is also an official document required by SS stating that your work permit was cancelled.  The documents from the Provincial Employment office were most definitely needed, at least in my case they were.

 

I also wanted to mention there were several 'Thai' forms which needed to be filled out.  I was lucky enough that I always had someone help me with this. It was a lot more work than just passing documents from office to office.

 

You could always go back to the original SS office and ask to speak to a senior official?  Beside that your only other option would be to start working again, and pay in for however long it takes to get the benefit back once you stop working. 

 

Here is a old Thai Visa thread I found with a couple people mentioning they were able to self insure.

 

 

 

 

[Oohwan]

38 minutes ago, BruceMangosteen said:

Same here in the Chonburi province. This denial was further reinforced today by another expert in the field of getting things done for foreigners. The claim was made it's a new policy or law. Good luck, I'll keep this discussion going as things progress. God Bless You as well, stay healthy. OO.

When I went to the SS office there was a brochure in English with 2 different options with information on how to self insure yourself into the Thai SS system.  I asked the lady working there about them, and she said these options weren't for me.  This got me thinking that maybe they have different categories and requirements based on how much you have previously paid in. 

[Sheryl]

If you paid in for 13 consecutive months you are eligible. Had you?

 

And which SS office was this?

 

 

[edwardandtubs]

59 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

If you paid in for 13 consecutive months you are eligible. Had you?

 

And which SS office was this?

 

 

I had paid in for several consecutive years. This wasn't in dispute at all and was accepted by the SSO. I even paid privately once several years ago so know how easy it used to be but in December I was refused at Bangkok SSO Area 2 and in March I was refused at Area 8. As BruceMangosteen said, there seems to be a new law or rule or maybe just a diktat.

[Oohwan]

11 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

I had paid in for several consecutive years. This wasn't in dispute at all and was accepted by the SSO. I even paid privately once several years ago so know how easy it used to be but in December I was refused at Bangkok SSO Area 2 and in March I was refused at Area 8. As BruceMangosteen said, there seems to be a new law or rule or maybe just a diktat.

How could they have refused you if you were already paying into the system?  I heard once you in your in for life.  Did you ever stop your personal contribution or miss a payment?