Open Mic - Nimman Chiang Mai

[Penny GS]

My husband and I just relocated to Thailand, and had opened a new restaurant in Nimman (Chiang Mai). As the venue is big, I am wondering whether if I can offer a corner of the restaurant to musicians who are interested in jamming sessions (ie. open mic). This is not illegal isn't considering no monetary rewards are given. The restaurant has a rooftop bar area too. Interested parties please PM me. Thanks heaps!

[Shoeless Joe]

If it's only Thai musicians then you're likely going to be OK.

 

Regretfully, if you are thinking of letting Farang musicians play without a work permit then there's a potential problem for you and them whether you pay them or not. This has been discussed many times on this forum and although it might seem "challenging", a farang musician playing in your restaurant will be deemed to be working (even if you don't pay him / them) because 1) They are likely to be entertaining and/or attracting customers to your restaurant and 2) They are doing something without a work permit that you could/should employ a Thai national to do. So kudos to you for thinking of giving muso's a place to play but be careful.

 

NB: Of course it's always possible that you might get a "helping hand" from someone in authority for a monthly "consideration".

 

Good luck with your venture,

 

Regards,

 

Joe

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, Shoeless Joe said:

If it's only Thai musicians then you're likely going to be OK.

 

Regretfully, if you are thinking of letting Farang musicians play without a work permit then there's a potential problem for you and them whether you pay them or not. This has been discussed many times on this forum and although it might seem "challenging", a farang musician playing in your restaurant will be deemed to be working (even if you don't pay him / them) because 1) They are likely to be entertaining and/or attracting customers to your restaurant and 2) They are doing something without a work permit that you could/should employ a Thai national to do. So kudos to you for thinking of giving muso's a place to play but be careful.

 

NB: Of course it's always possible that you might get a "helping hand" from someone in authority for a monthly "consideration".

 

Good luck with your venture,

 

Regards,

 

Joe

All of the above is correct, however it may be difficult to find relevant posts from a few years back.  For some reason the search function on TV doesn't work very well for topics that aren't recent.

 

I suggest you find a Thai friend who knows how things work here and see what the relevant authorities think about your plan.  Nightlife in Chiang Mai has been on a long downhill run, if you can do something to improve it I wish you the best of luck.

[Penny GS]

On 4/15/2017 at 3:36 PM, Shoeless Joe said:

If it's only Thai musicians then you're likely going to be OK.

 

Regretfully, if you are thinking of letting Farang musicians play without a work permit then there's a potential problem for you and them whether you pay them or not. This has been discussed many times on this forum and although it might seem "challenging", a farang musician playing in your restaurant will be deemed to be working (even if you don't pay him / them) because 1) They are likely to be entertaining and/or attracting customers to your restaurant and 2) They are doing something without a work permit that you could/should employ a Thai national to do. So kudos to you for thinking of giving muso's a place to play but be careful.

 

NB: Of course it's always possible that you might get a "helping hand" from someone in authority for a monthly "consideration".

 

Good luck with your venture,

 

Regards,

 

Joe

Thank you for your advice, Joe. 

 

I do not quite understand how musicians having a jam session will need a work permit. But knowing the Thais ... I better not argue! 

 

I guess I will need to look into getting Thai musicians who are happy to jam and collaborate with us. 

 

 

[Penny GS]

On 4/16/2017 at 0:08 AM, heybruce said:

All of the above is correct, however it may be difficult to find relevant posts from a few years back.  For some reason the search function on TV doesn't work very well for topics that aren't recent.

 

I suggest you find a Thai friend who knows how things work here and see what the relevant authorities think about your plan.  Nightlife in Chiang Mai has been on a long downhill run, if you can do something to improve it I wish you the best of luck.

Thank you Bruce. 

 

I will get my husband to check with the authorities, etc. A real shame that a place for people to come together to jam, have a yarn and meet up requires a work permit! Oh well, no point arguing is there?

 

And it is a real shame that nightlife in Chiang Mai (in fact the whole of Thailand) has gone downhill. Thailand has become a nanny state! Not good.

 

 

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, Penny GS said:

Thank you Bruce. 

 

I will get my husband to check with the authorities, etc. A real shame that a place for people to come together to jam, have a yarn and meet up requires a work permit! Oh well, no point arguing is there?

 

And it is a real shame that nightlife in Chiang Mai (in fact the whole of Thailand) has gone downhill. Thailand has become a nanny state! Not good.

 

 

This issue came up several years ago.  If I remember correctly the rational was that if the musicians are drawing paying customers into the business, then they need a work permit even if they aren't paid.  That was the local interpretation of the law by the police at the time, however the thinking may be different now.  This strikes me as one of those areas where the answer you get depends on who you ask and how you ask.  If you know someone who knows how things work, and how to make them work in Thailand, you may be able to do it.

 

By a restaurant in Nimman, do you mean somewhere in the Nimmanhamin road area, or a place called Nimman?

 

[Awk]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

This issue came up several years ago.  If I remember correctly the rational was that if the musicians are drawing paying customers into the business, then they need a work permit even if they aren't paid.  That was the local interpretation of the law by the police at the time, however the thinking may be different now.  This strikes me as one of those areas where the answer you get depends on who you ask and how you ask.  If you know someone who knows how things work, and how to make them work in Thailand, you may be able to do it.

 

By a restaurant in Nimman, do you mean somewhere in the Nimmanhamin road area, or a place called Nimman?

 

If I remember correctly somebody here said the problem was that someone in the group jamming was bragging on facebook or whatever how he got free meals/beer or something in return.  True or not I have no idea, but I've seen at least one restaurant/bar regularly having a farang trio playing/jamming there.  If the OP (and only the OP please) wants to know the name of restaurant in order to ask the owner about it, she can message me.  The owner seems a friendly enough guy, but no idea of whether he, like the OP, just assumes it's ok, or has actually checked it with someone.  The restaurant is in a busy area though, so if somebody were to complain they possibly would have done so already.

 

[dave2]

32 minutes ago, Awk said:

If I remember correctly somebody here said the problem was that someone in the group jamming was bragging on facebook or whatever how he got free meals/beer or something in return.  True or not I have no idea,

it was true !

 

which prompted this immigration meeting in the imperial mea ping hotel

which lots of ferangs attended ( including me )

 

to talk about what we could ( as  ferangs / forergners  ) or not do without a work permit

in thailand on the 7th june 11

 

dave2 

[Shoeless Joe]

5 hours ago, dave2 said:

it was true !

 

which prompted this immigration meeting in the imperial mea ping hotel

which lots of ferangs attended ( including me )

 

to talk about what we could ( as  ferangs / forergners  ) or not do without a work permit

in thailand on the 7th june 11

 

dave2 

 

And did you find out what you could or couldn't do?

 

Regards,

 

Joe

[taotoo]

Posted June 8, 2011 · Report post

WORKING LEGALLY IN THAILAND

Working legally in Thailand

Seminar from Helping Hands radio program

Rhuchuchai Pothai, 2nd left, and Witthaya Singmanee, 2nd right,

answered questions on the live radio broadcast at the Imperial

Mae Ping in Chiang Mai on Wednesday, June 7, 2011.

The Helping Hands radio program from NBT radio station 93.25 was established in 2001 and started English language programming for the expat residents of Chiang Mai. In conjunction with this idea of offering local expats as much knowledge and information as possible, they organized a seminar with head of the Work Permit Department at the Labor Office Rhuchuchai Potha and Immigration Investigative Division officer Witthaya Singmanee at the Imperial Mae Ping on Wednesday, June 7, 2011.

The evening saw over 60 people attend dinner and a further 40 fill the room to hear their questions answered. Since it was a live broadcast on the radio, host Wouter Van der Stichel read the submitted questions aloud in English which were then translated into Thai by the Thai announcer.

Some time was spent offering up descriptions of the duties of their offices and the legal definition of work that is used by the Labor Department; "to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits". Additionally Khun Rhuchuchai pointed out that beyond the application, is the intent. If it’s clear there is intent to work with a goal to profit from that labor, either on the part of the foreigner or of the business, then that is also illegal.

A key question that was asked was in regard to performers who wish to perform a one off show for charity or otherwise. He said there is a temporary permit to work for not longer than 15 days, free from his office and considered on a case by case basis. But, he pointed out several times, you must apply for it. He reiterated that he supports those who wish to perform legally, and will be happy to approve such applications for these kinds of shows once applied for and considered on a case by case basis. Anything over the 15 days requires a legal work permit, which requires a sponsoring business or charitable organization.

Volunteer work, he pointed out, requires a work permit, however, many charities are looking for volunteers and are willing to sponsor people and he suggested that he could offer guidance to those interested in such a work permit. For those who wish to work at multiple organizations, he pointed out that that initial work permit is required but it is possible to add an employer or job to the work permit once its issued. This would also apply to musicians who wish to play at different venues.

He noted that the office offers different periods of work permits, from a year for 3,100 baht to 6 months for 1,550 baht and 1-3 months for 750 baht.

He added that there is no “freelance” work permit, that one must be sponsored by a company. However, when asked about specialists offering advice for overseas clients in overseas markets, he felt that so long as they did not offer that advice to Thais or foreigners in Thailand that would be acceptable.

A company started by a Thai person and employing and paying social security for 4 Thai employees can offer one work permit for a foreigner without needing the required 2 million baht in registered capital.

The Immigration officer, Khun Witthaya, addressed the issues of overcrowding at the Immigration office noting that they have requested budget for expansion but the money must come from the Ministry of Interior in order to expand the premises, or parking. He added, he knows there are problems and that queueing can be very long and recommended to people that until any funds are granted, they avoid visiting after a holiday. He pointed out that the ratio of officers to foreigners resident in Chiang Mai is quite high and that the officers work as fast as they can but, especially on busy days, they reach capacity and go no further. When asked if there were plans to allow a fast track service for longer term resident foreigners, Khun Witthaya said that he had asked the main office this question and the answer was a clear “no”, there was going to be no fast track option.

Retirement visas were introduced and he reiterated the qualifications; must be age 50 or over, and must have either 800,000 baht in a Thai bank or a pension of 65,000 baht a month that must be certified by the Consulate or a combination of both. He added that the money must be in the bank for a minimum of 3 months on the first application. Permanent residency was introduced and while he said applications are taken usually once a year, he is not sure when the next announcement will be. He said a non-immigrant visa for 3 years is necessary, and either working in Thailand, having invested in Thailand or married to a Thai national will offer eligibility to apply for permanent residency. Khun Rhuchuchai pointed out that if you obtain PR you must still get a work permit to work.

The issue of musicians being arrested for performing at jam sessions was discussed and it was said that if a complaint is made then they must investigate. Venues that offer regularly and publicly advertised shows are clearly obtaining a benefit from the performance and that this shows the intent to profit from it. Khun Rhuchuchai said, there is no problem with a spontaneous jam session, and a work permit is not needed for that. But at a regularly advertised show, the intent is clearly to make a profit from performers. He added they didn’t just swoop in and arrest people but investigated the venues and visited them regularly to ensure that this was a regular occurrence.

He reiterated to performers that for one off shows a free, 15 day permission can be applied for at the Work Permit office. He said, you must request it properly that you perform and he has no problem granting permission for that.

As one of the organizers pointed out later, while not all questions were answered as comprehensively as some may have hoped, the officers did seem to make an honest attempt to answer all questions to the best of their knowledge and ability.

DJ’s, Helping Hands organizers and executives and

government officials joined the two officers for a group

photo before the live broadcast.

[chiangmaimail]2011-06-08[/chiangmaimail]