Feeling unwelcome in LOS

[Chip Allen]

19 minutes ago, psyvolt said:

 

Bugger me, it's not hard then where to choose then is it. Move there if you think your pension will show you a grander lifestyle in your goldern years.

Don't come to Thailand and then complain that the Thais are acting Thai (I swear some ppl have a screw loose, and actually forget they are a guest in THEIR country, and not that they should be grateful and give you a hip hip hoorat everytime you walk passed for gracing them with your presence), and the beers getting more expensive (reality check, they're not raising beer prices just for you, the Thais also pay the same price), tbh, just don't bother coming at all to Thailan, we farangs will thank you for it later!

EXACTLY the kind of lock-step, mindless sycophancy that the "Thai Way" set is famous for. No one denies being a "guest", no one expects "fawning" or applause. No one is REALLY concerned about beer prices. We DO expect our concerns to be taken seriously, rather than greeted with a "go home" chorus every time a grievance is aired. Expats with a larger than average income, pump a considerable sum of money into the economy and expecting it to be as easy as possible to do that, is NOT an unreasonable expectation. Blind protectionism and xenophobia is the root of the problem.

[bazza73]

It really depends on the mindset you develop after a few weeks here. I've lived here for 8 years now, and most days are an adventure for me. Plus on a part pension and investment income, I can live as well as I want to here. Yes, there are minor irritations here. But some bring benefits. For example, the chaotic traffic ensures one is delaying the onset of Ahlzheimers.

I don't feel unwelcome here at all. If you can speak passable Thai and are not kiniow ( stingy ) Thailand is your oyster.

Oops, perhaps I should not use a seafood analogy in view of some of the posts already made. Chacun a son gout.

[NoshowJones]

I do not feel unwelcome here even though I have a lot of contempt for the Thai authorities, I will never consider myself as a guest here, as some deluded people do, but at the end of the day, Thailand is a far better place to live in than the UK, for all it's faults, the good things here still outweigh the bad.

[anotheruser]

5 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I do not feel unwelcome here even though I have a lot of contempt for the Thai authorities, I will never consider myself as a guest here, as some deluded people do, but at the end of the day, Thailand is a far better place to live in than the UK, for all it's faults, the good things here still outweigh the bad.

Okay so you don't feel like you are a guest so what do you feel your status here is? Not trying to be antagonistic just truly curious.

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, oldhippy said:

 

 

 

...The government officials are very unwelcoming, but hey, they don't even welcome their own countrymen..... 

 

 

 

 

Exactly. Immigration officials in particular,  the world over, are never welcoming of anyone.

 

And immigration rules are not created by popular vote, in fact most citizens have no clue what they are. So I would hardly infer  from those anything about the attitude of the country as a whole.

 

I feel perfectly comfortable where I live. Certainly no one minds having me here, and everyone is friendly enough.   But I should add that I live in a rural area with virtually no other foreigners around...and I don't, as far as I know, do or say anything that would make me a problem or liability to have around.

 

So I do not feel in the least "unwelcome" though I also don't feel that the people or the country are actively seeking to have foreigners like me here, rather that like anywhere, people judge people on a case by case basis.  Every once in a while i come across someone who is hostile to foreigners per se, but most people are quite willing to give me a chance and will react according to how I am.

 

As for the government, I'm not looking to them to "welcome" me, I'm just glad that their rules make my stay here possible.

 

Some people may have unrealistic expectations.

 

[simon43]

My take on this is that many foreigners who live in Thailand are akin to frogs slowly being boiled in ever-hotter water - they do not step back and get a general view on the situation in Thailand.

 

After living and working in Phuket for 15 years, I was 'invited' to take a step back, and it was only then that I understand how uncertain Thailand's future was, and how the position of foreigners (not only myself) was becoming more and more precarious.

 

So I left Thailand :)

[NoshowJones]

19 hours ago, starky said:

Whats wrong with wealthy in poor out? Most countries would rather have their immigrants with some wealth than providing virtually nothing to the economy. Particularly those that need to move to a developing country to make their dollar stretch further.

What sort of expat living here is not contributing to the economy? They all must be getting income from there own countries, whether it is pensions or otherwise. I understand there may be the odd exception, but for about 99% of these, it has to be their own fault,

I do understand I may have missed something out here though.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, anotheruser said:

If not a tad overly simplistic. I can think of many places if you were dropped in you wouldn't get a smile back. lol

Well, I guess it wouldn't work too well in parts of Iraq or Syria right now. And I reckon most of us would give Afghanistan a wide birth.

 

So ok. point taken. 

[jadee]

My only thought on this topic of 'feeling unwelcome in Thailand' is ... compared with where? I mean, if you want to feel unwelcome, trying moving to China - Thailand is nirvana compared with RPC and there are plenty of worse places I could name, China isn't even halfway down the list. Where exactly is truly welcoming? 

[simon43]

Where exactly is truly welcoming? 

 

Well, it is all smiles here in Naypyidaw (Myanmar). No fake smiles here (yet).

[jadee]

14 minutes ago, simon43 said:

My take on this is that many foreigners who live in Thailand are akin to frogs slowly being boiled in ever-hotter water - they do not step back and get a general view on the situation in Thailand.

 

After living and working in Phuket for 15 years, I was 'invited' to take a step back, and it was only then that I understand how uncertain Thailand's future was, and how the position of foreigners (not only myself) was becoming more and more precarious.

 

So I left Thailand :)

that's interesting, how recently did you leave? Is your view of the situation still the same? It seems you're in Myanmar right now, could you offer any insight into the differences between the prospects for foreigners in both countries? thanks

[NoshowJones]

24 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

Okay so you don't feel like you are a guest so what do you feel your status here is? Not trying to be antagonistic just truly curious.

I am just an ordinary ex pat, sorry, not really, I was never patriotic to my home country. My status here? I'm just here, and enjoying having a nice house, loving wife, good friends, and trying to make the best I can of it.

,

[simon43]

Quote

 

that's interesting, how recently did you leave?...
 

 

 

I left Phuket last year.  I had been running my own businesses (transit hotels at the international airport) for many years with my Thai family members, but I had also been working in Myanmar (Yangon and Mandalay) since 2012.

 

One reason for leaving Phuket was that the long-term outlook for the local economy was not good. Of our 3 hotels (which all used to be very profitable businesses), one closed due to a major downturn of business, one was 'invaded' by drug-dealers, with the support of the local Thai police, and the third hotel is still doing OK, but up for sale (year-on-year profits are falling).

 

For me, it was the lack of the rule of Law, the corruption of the police, the corruption of lawyers, the corruption of the Labour Office (who always refused me a Work Permit), the corruption of the immigration department - did I mention the corruption?

 

Not to say that Myanmar is the place to move to right now.  

 

It isn't, if you want to retire (there is no retirement visa as yet)

It isn't if you want to be a long-term tourist (there is no long-term tourist visa as yet)

 

But things are changing fast in Myanmar.

Now one can get a 1-year renewable business visa

You can apply for Permanent Residence (renewable 5-year visa), after 1-3 years, no requirement to speak Myanmar-sa, no requirement to marry a local etc, have the right to purchase a condo in your own name etc.

 

For me, the plus points are the honesty and friendliness of the local people, as well as the business opportunities in Myanmar.  For example, Naypyidaw is listed as one of the 10-fastest growing cities in the world!  But it doesn't even have a KFC, McDonalds, Subway, Starbucks etc etc.

 

Update:

BTW, I am certainly not suggesting that corruption doesn't exist in Myanmar - I'm sure there is a high level of corruption.  But at least the local police don't dare to 'shake me down' - there are so few whiteys in Naypyidaw riding around that I think the traffic police assume that I must be a VIP or something and they just wave and smile at me, (maybe muttering 'stupid whitey' as I ride past LoL).

Edited April 25, 2017 by simon43

[jadee]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, sorry to hear about the hotels - that's so rough not getting a work permit for your own business! I don't know anything about Myanmar so it's really interesting to hear how it compares, hope it continues to go well for you there

[anotheruser]

Just now, jadee said:

Thanks for taking the time to reply, sorry to hear about the hotels - that's so rough not getting a work permit for your own business! I don't know anything about Myanmar so it's really interesting to hear how it compares, hope it continues to go well for you there

You have to take the work permit thing with a grain of salt. The poster has repeatedly said on this forum he wasn't actually working and never needed a work permit. 

[anotheruser]

48 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Exactly. Immigration officials in particular,  the world over, are never welcoming of anyone.

 

And immigration rules are not created by popular vote, in fact most citizens have no clue what they are. So I would hardly infer  from those anything about the attitude of the country as a whole.

 

I feel perfectly comfortable where I live. Certainly no one minds having me here, and everyone is friendly enough.   But I should add that I live in a rural area with virtually no other foreigners around...and I don't, as far as I know, do or say anything that would make me a problem or liability to have around.

 

So I do not feel in the least "unwelcome" though I also don't feel that the people or the country are actively seeking to have foreigners like me here, rather that like anywhere, people judge people on a case by case basis.  Every once in a while i come across someone who is hostile to foreigners per se, but most people are quite willing to give me a chance and will react according to how I am.

 

As for the government, I'm not looking to them to "welcome" me, I'm just glad that their rules make my stay here possible.

 

Some people may have unrealistic expectations.

 

To say immigration officials around the world are never welcoming isn't true. It isn't their job to be welcoming but much of the time they can be pleasant to deal with. 

 

The last time I entered Thailand from the Chong Mek border they were actually more friendly than usual. I entered on a TE visa and the officer accidentally stamped me in for 3 months. Then he looked again and asked me about the visa.

 

I told him I get one year and he began joking around about how I was the only visa of this type he had seen in 2017 and gave me a warm welcome to Thailand. 

 

It is an immigration officials job to be professional. This usually means they stay neutral or refrain from being overly intrusive. If they are friendly it is also not their job but there is nothing saying they can not take this approach.

[55Jay]

For some, I thought it might be a sense of superiority over the people who run this banana stand and are in a position of authority over them.  They resent the hell out of that, and so no transgression goes unnoticed.  It accrues and grinds on them year after year.

 

For others, might be compounded by the paralyzing insecurity of being in various states of reliance on their wives here.  The reality that they are unable to communicate on a meaningful level and perform what would be routine tasks back in their own country.  They are shells of the men they once were, and that grinds on them, year after year.

 

Me?  Not leaving in a hurry but when we do, won't be because I finally discovered Thailand is a corrupt shit hole.  I already knew that coming here, so my expectations were low. 

[anotheruser]

Just now, 55Jay said:

For some, I thought it might be a sense of superiority over the people who run this banana stand and are in a position of authority over them.  They resent the hell out of that, and so no transgression goes unnoticed.  It accrues and grinds on them year after year.

 

For others, might be compounded by the paralyzing insecurity of being in various states of reliance on their wives here.  The reality that they are unable to communicate on a meaningful level and perform what would be routine tasks back in their own country.  They are shells of the men they once were, and that grinds on them, year after year.

 

Me?  Not leaving in a hurry but when we do, won't be because I finally discovered Thailand is a corrupt shit hole.  I already knew that coming here, so my expectations were low. 

Interesting post. Thanks for finally bringing the thread back onto the topic at hand. 

[anotheruser]

I think for some they came here and could wave around money and set a precedent. After awhile they decided to move here and eventually over time their way back home became a much harder road.

 

In the mean time their money became less and as Thais became aware of the value of money the token things they used to throw money around on became less relevant.

 

So you fast forward the years and there is no easy path back and what made them the superstar in the household eventually turns into a resentment with the constant hand outs. Immigration laws get tougher and cut into peoples lives more and the result becomes continuous resentment.

 

I am guessing these feelings become more pronounced when there is a point of no return which it is harder to go back then it is to stay. In the mean time the Thais haven't really changed it is just harder to buy off everybody around them.

 

This is just an example of why somebody might stay here if they aren't content or feeling welcome here. Sinking your life savings into a country where over time you no longer feel appreciated would do that I guess. 

 

The initial feeling of joy and wonder when you were fresh off the boat probably become a bit of heart break when you realize there ain't no easy way out.

 

So denial becomes a necessity out of self defense and ego.

 

This is just my theory so no need for people to reply like I am referring to their personal situations.

Edited April 25, 2017 by anotheruser

[Retiredandhappyhere]

A farmer in the UK was leaning on his gate when a passing car stopped and the two occupants said they were thinking of moving into the area and wondered if he could tell them whether the locals were friendly people.

 

The farmer replied by asking them what the people were like where they now lived.  They replied, "Oh miserable buggers, everyone of them".

 

In that case, the farmer said, "you will find them exactly the same here"

 

The moral to this story being............................

[laislica]

8 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

I think for some they came here and could wave around money and set a precedent. After awhile they decided to move here and eventually over time their way back home became a much harder road.

 

In the mean time their money became less and as Thais became aware of the value of money the token things they used to throw money around on became less relevant.

 

So you fast forward the years and there is no easy path back and what made them the superstar in the household eventually turns into a resentment with the constant hand outs. Immigration laws get tougher and cut into peoples lives more and the result becomes continuous resentment.

 

I am guessing these feelings become more pronounced when there is a point of no return which it is harder to go back then it is to stay. In the mean time the Thais haven't really changed it is just harder to buy off everybody around them.

 

This is just an example of why somebody might stay here if they aren't content or feeling welcome here. Sinking your life savings into a country where over time you no longer feel appreciated would do that I guess. 

 

The initial feeling of joy and wonder when you were fresh off the boat probably become a bit of heart break when you realize there ain't no easy way out.

 

This is just my theory so no need for people to reply like I am referring to their personal situations.

 

Simple really:-
Familiarity breeds contempt. Long experience of someone or something can make one so aware of the faults as to be scornful.

For example, Ten years in the same job (or country) and now he hates it-familiarity breeds contempt.

[anotheruser]

1 minute ago, laislica said:

 

Simple really:-
Familiarity breeds contempt. Long experience of someone or something can make one so aware of the faults as to be scornful.

For example, Ten years in the same job (or country) and now he hates it-familiarity breeds contempt.

Not so sure that is exactly the reason. I see the point but in my OP I was wondering why Thailand seems to be this way more than other countries I have lived in. 

 

I have lived and met ex pats all over the world and in places like Japan or Ireland the ex pats seem to be more appreciative of there new found countries.

 

Most of those who don't like Japan for example won't be there 20 years later they will simply leave. The ones that are left truly enjoy their lives.

[bazza73]

17 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

For some, I thought it might be a sense of superiority over the people who run this banana stand and are in a position of authority over them.  They resent the hell out of that, and so no transgression goes unnoticed.  It accrues and grinds on them year after year.

 

For others, might be compounded by the paralyzing insecurity of being in various states of reliance on their wives here.  The reality that they are unable to communicate on a meaningful level and perform what would be routine tasks back in their own country.  They are shells of the men they once were, and that grinds on them, year after year.

 

Me?  Not leaving in a hurry but when we do, won't be because I finally discovered Thailand is a corrupt shit hole.  I already knew that coming here, so my expectations were low. 

A rather negative post on your fellow expats, not so? Have you always been this judgmental? Yes, Thailand and its expats have flaws.

However, you are going to find flaws wherever you go.

All that is needed here to be happy is to relax and treat each day as a new adventure. It's sad when people can't do that.

[thaifoodruns]

I get dirty looks in my car daily from Issan scooter and car taxis...they are no body to me, they are not related to me, so I don't care, I don't let it bother me. On the other hand there are a handful of genuine locals I could see becoming good friends if we hung out together


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[bazza73]

15 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

This is just an example of why somebody might stay here if they aren't content or feeling welcome here. Sinking your life savings into a country where over time you no longer feel appreciated would do that I guess. 

 

 

Anyone who puts their life savings into a foreign country  is an idiot. My rule of thumb is 80% Australia, 20% Thailand.

[anotheruser]

Just now, bazza73 said:

Anyone who puts their life savings into a foreign country  is an idiot. My rule of thumb is 80% Australia, 20% Thailand.

Well not everybody is as savvy as you are. You don't think there are people that find themselves in a dilemma now because they didn't follow your golden rule? 

 

Do you have any opinions on the main topic of the thread? 

[BigKahuna]

3 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

Not so sure that is exactly the reason. I see the point but in my OP I was wondering why Thailand seems to be this way more than other countries I have lived in. 

 

I have lived and met ex pats all over the world and in places like Japan or Ireland the ex pats seem to be more appreciative of there new found countries.

 

Most of those who don't like Japan for example won't be there 20 years later they will simply leave. The ones that are left truly enjoy their lives.

Maybe they are too old to leave. Moving post 70yo wouldnt be easy.

[DILLIGAD]

Maybe some feel unwelcome because they expect too much.

For example......

Booking a meeting at a specific time or expecting a person to do his/her job efficiently without gratuities (bribes).

People not accepting that they are in the wrong.

 

To some this is just a way of living but to others, maybe unwelcoming.

 

 

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[DILLIGAD]

So 2000 baht in Toyland and 8000 baht in Farangland.

But they are BOTH foreign countries to many.


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[anotheruser]

7 minutes ago, DILLIGAD said:

Maybe some feel unwelcome because they expect too much.
For example......
Booking a meeting at a specific time or expecting a person to do his/her job efficiently without gratuities (bribes).
People not accepting that they are in the wrong.

To some this is just a way of living but to others maybe unwelcoming.


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I will go out on a limb and guess that marriages that are not based upon love and subsequent children resulting from them are a big reason that many stay on. 

 

Many westerners will rightfully feel obligated to take care of their families even in times of hardship. Many Thai guys would simply just abandon the family and move on. Maybe some westerners just don't have that mai pen rai attitude towards marriage and children hard wired in. 

 

So for those people where this is the case I have a lot of respect that situation must be tough. 

Edited April 25, 2017 by anotheruser