Requirements for Degree Verification

[maphraw]

My employer told me that Immigration will need degree verification for my next one-year extention. This is a new requirment at Sri Racha Immigration for our university. My guess is that I take my dgree to the US Embassy and get a document that verifies its  authenicity. I am wondering if the US Embassy will  require the actual degree of whether a copy is sufficient. And will Immigration accept a copy along with the verification document. For my last one-year extention a copy of my dgree was accepted. Any info/advice would be appreciated. Thanks

[tomwct]

Why is Immigration verifying your degree? That's not their job. I can see if the Labour Department that issues you a Work Permit

might require it. I didn't have my paperwork 9 nine years ago and the University President just certified I was qualified. a University Teachers do not need Teaching License. I worked for one of the largest public universities in Thailand. What a great job. Retired

last year with Government Medical Insurance for 450 THB per month. Very good benefit for my retirement here.

[maphraw]

Immigration will not be verifying my degree. They want proof that the degree is real so I have to go the the US Embassy and the Embassy will, apparently, attest to its authenticity. For a fee of course. My employer has just warned me that Sri Racha Immigration is now requiring this verification befor they will renew a work visa/extention.

[Scott]

I think you may not be able to get what you need from the embassy:

 

U.S. Consular Officers overseas are not empowered to authenticate public documents that were issued in the United States because they do not have access to the records of the issuing offices or the seals of the custodians of these records. Such documents include vital records (birth, marriage, death, and divorce), as well as academic, commercial, or other credentials. We can notarize a sworn affidavit which may or may not satisfy the Thai requirement for U.S. Embassy “certification.”  Please confirm with the end recipient in advance.

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/authentication-vital-records/

[tonray]

I would order a set of sealed transcripts sent to your University coordinator. This will verify your degree.

[tomwct]

1 hour ago, maphraw said:

Immigration will not be verifying my degree. They want proof that the degree is real so I have to go the the US Embassy and the Embassy will, apparently, attest to its authenticity. For a fee of course. My employer has just warned me that Sri Racha Immigration is now requiring this verification befor they will renew a work visa/extention.

That's not their job. I would have your employer go with you to immigration. In fact, my university just took care of all my visas.

I just sat there while they stamped my passport.

[Scott]

Immigration can and sometimes does ask for documentation that is not normally required.   If they have reason to doubt the authenticity of any documents or question whether the person is genuine, they will check it further.   Immigration has the right to vet anybody wanting to remain in the country.  

 

[new2here]

I think you may not be able to get what you need from the embassy:
 
U.S. Consular Officers overseas are not empowered to authenticate public documents that were issued in the United States because they do not have access to the records of the issuing offices or the seals of the custodians of these records. Such documents include vital records (birth, marriage, death, and divorce), as well as academic, commercial, or other credentials. We can notarize a sworn affidavit which may or may not satisfy the Thai requirement for U.S. Embassy “certification.”  Please confirm with the end recipient in advance.
https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/authentication-vital-records/

I agree.. I've gone with 2 friends to the Embassy and this was the outcome.. the embassy won't, and can't, authenticate or attest to its legitimacy or validity any State or local level document. Only some federally issued documents - and even that's limited. They do authenticate documents most all federal documents that are issued locally - such as a CRBA (Consulars Report of Birth Abroad) or death certificate.

They will certify and authenticate your signature - but will clearly state that the Embassy is only attesting to the legitimacy of your signature and not at all to the underlying documents that you signed.

The only way that I know of, and I have done it, is to get originals issued by your university.. have them notarized by a Notary public attesting to the legitimacy of the university registrars signature.. have that paper certified by the Secretary of State where the Notary derives their authority.. send all that to the US DoS Authentifications office on D.C. ... once you have that, then you can send it to the Thai embassy or CG who will "Legalize" it by their stamp.

Now, you've got a certified copy.. sometimes you may have to take it to the MFA office here, but my experience is that the Legalization by the Thai Embassy was sufficient and didn't require the local MFA office to stamp in addition.

It's not an overly complicated process, but it takes time.. the costs aren't all that bad.. but the mailing/postage adds up as most of the steps require you to use traceable mail - so a FedEx,UPS or other premium mailing both to and from.. and that's for each step.. I think in total I paid about $150 of which maybe $50 was fees and the balance was mailing.

I haven't been asked for this by immigration, but my university did.. they allowed me to retain the original - but after inspection of it, accepted a copy of each page of the document set.




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[Airbagwill]

With private schools Sri Racha will now not extend a B visa  to a tear. .you need to get a new visa every 90 days.

They don't seem to mind about verification if degree.

[Airbagwill]

On 2017-5-4 at 10:19 AM, tomwct said:

That's not their job. I would have your employer go with you to immigration. In fact, my university just took care of all my visas.

I just sat there while they stamped my passport.

Were you at Sri Racha?

[BruceMangosteen]

On 5/6/2017 at 7:00 PM, new2here said:

The only way that I know of, and I have done it, is to get originals issued by your university.. have them notarized by a Notary public attesting to the legitimacy of the university registrars signature.. have that paper certified by the Secretary of State where the Notary derives their authority.. send all that to the US DoS Authentifications office on D.C. ... once you have that, then you can send it to the Thai embassy or CG who will "Legalize" it by their stamp.

 

 

All this for a job paying less than $1000.usd a month? The Thai authorities are simply out of control with this hatred of white foreigners with a native English tongue. At least if you are black you won't have to go through all this stuff as blanket discrimination will cull you out. God Bless You and OO. 

[BruceMangosteen]

On 5/4/2017 at 8:49 AM, maphraw said:

Immigration will not be verifying my degree. They want proof that the degree is real so I have to go the the US Embassy and the Embassy will, apparently, attest to its authenticity. For a fee of course. My employer has just warned me that Sri Racha Immigration is now requiring this verification befor they will renew a work visa/extention.

The Filipino's have this figured out. 900 Baht last year and the Philippine embassy in Bangkok verifies your degree from a Philippine University. In the Pattaya office, foreigners from native English speaking countries are exempt from the requirement. I've also personally witnessed an Eastern European(Ukraine or one of those other Russian breakaways) teacher avoid the certification/verification request with a simple "it's not possible". As Scott said, it's more about the mood of the officer than a legal requirement. You can't set the mood, it's set by outside things such as how the spouse of the officer is treating him/her or hunger etc.. God Bless you and OO.

[tonray]

6 hours ago, BruceMangosteen said:

All this for a job paying less than $1000.usd a month? The Thai authorities are simply out of control with this hatred of white foreigners with a native English tongue. At least if you are black you won't have to go through all this stuff as blanket discrimination will cull you out. God Bless You and OO. 

1000 USD a month is a good salary by Thai standards. And I know and have known many black English teachers here in Thailand so they are not culled out as you say. 

[Airbagwill]

UK embassy has a checklist of accredited universities... If your degree is on that they issue a note to that effect (3500 .... You then need a translation into Thai of your degree cert by a notary.....Sri Racha won't extend some B visas to the full year any more 

[new2here]

All this for a job paying less than $1000.usd a month? The Thai authorities are simply out of control with this hatred of white foreigners with a native English tongue. At least if you are black you won't have to go through all this stuff as blanket discrimination will cull you out. God Bless You and OO. 

I don't know if it's a "hatred" or not.... but... I do think that they (Immigration/Labour) the right (and is argue, the responsibility) to insure those that are seeking extensions (immigration) and/or work permits (Labour) do in fact meet the standards and that documents submitted are in fact genuine and legitimate.

It is I think a fair question to ask 'all this for a job that pays X'. I think that'a a legitimate question to ask and should be a part of a prospective employees.

I've worked previously in other countries, albeit not in the educational area, and had this issue (submission only allows via certified/legalized documents) before.. so I can't say it's unknown.. and I don't think the fact that the underlying jobs salary may only be $X per moth should be a determining factor for the need to submit properly certified/legalized docs.


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[new2here]

UK embassy has a checklist of accredited universities... If your degree is on that they issue a note to that effect (3500 .... You then need a translation into Thai of your degree cert by a notary.....Sri Racha won't extend some B visas to the full year any more 

That would be nice... for many US colleges and universities you can now use a 3rd party clearing house who will, for a small fee I recall, confirm/verify your degree, transcripts and/or dates of enrollment to outside parties like a prospective employer, but I have not heard this is accepted outside of the US- such as within foreign countries etc.

If something like this were to be used and accepted outside of the county, that would be a huge plus.


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[Airbagwill]

I think this is a very bizarre set of requirements by S/R immigration....however will it get rid of those with fake degrees? Unlikely!

[ozmeldo]

As stated, the embassy will only notarize that you swear that whatever paperwork that is being presented is authentic and valid. It cannot as ANY notary public verify the authenticity.

 

As an embassy it could make an effort to accumulate information that addresses the authenticity of your degree, but think of the time and resources. What would it need to charge? 

 

I can see the Filipino embassy signing off on anything to keep that mob in on the game. Ironic that the IFUGAO diploma requires a basket of documents itself. But verifying a degree...no problem. Expatriate workers are 10% of Phils income at the very least.

 

If I were you I'd order my transcript/s from your school/s. Have them sent to somewhere in US (many copies) and fwdd here. Obtain a letter from your university stating completion of the degree, date - they do this all the time. Also request many. 

 

You should already have these things looking for a job here. Especially sealed transcripts. Wake up and get serious or move on.

 

It is odd that Immigration is requesting such documents. It's bs they are trying to push the responsibility on to the embassies which in turn respond accordingly. It's idiocy. What is the function of an embassy? Matters of state.

 

Having said that, I think it perfectly valid that Immigration wants something to back up your paperwork. Maybe the degree/s look sketchy? 

 

I've heard this is sometimes a thing now, even in BKK.

[Scott]

It has become fairly common for immigration to want the degree authenticated.   In some provinces, they request that the school send the degree and transcript directly to immigration.   Some will accept the degree and transcript with some sort of official proof that it is real.  

 

For people from the US, the National Clearinghouse has generally been accepted as proof of the authenticity of the degree.  

[BruceMangosteen]

5 hours ago, Scott said:

It has become fairly common for immigration to want the degree authenticated.   In some provinces, they request that the school send the degree and transcript directly to immigration.   Some will accept the degree and transcript with some sort of official proof that it is real.  

 

For people from the US, the National Clearinghouse has generally been accepted as proof of the authenticity of the degree.  

The immigration officers aren't stupid. They have to know that degrees from some countries are more easily obtained and/or authenticated. This is why my last experience only resulted in an immediate exemption from this requirement as well as that of an Eastern European. I think it's more of an idea than a practice. Immigration has more important things to do than get involved in the qualifications of teachers. A good well connected school/director can get this quashed with a simple letter of phone call. God Bless You and OO.

[BruceMangosteen]

10 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

10 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

 

Having said that, I think it perfectly valid that Immigration wants something to back up your paperwork. Maybe the degree/s look sketchy? 

 

 

They have a letter from the school. It's not their role to verify degrees and qualifications. Neither the school or immigration are actually qualified to determine this anyhow. It's again about face, loss of face, and perceived power. God Bless You and OO. 

[Airbagwill]

3 minutes ago, BruceMangosteen said:

The immigration officers aren't stupid. They have to know that degrees from some countries are more easily obtained and/or authenticated. This is why my last experience only resulted in an immediate exemption from this requirement as well as that of an Eastern European. I think it's more of an idea than a practice. Immigration has more important things to do than get involved in the qualifications of teachers. A good well connected school/director can get this quashed with a simple letter of phone call. God Bless You and OO.

What is the phone number to report abuse of this then?

[BruceMangosteen]

1 minute ago, Airbagwill said:

What is the phone number to report abuse of this then?

Abuse of what? Their power? Sorry, "wrong number". Schools can make excuses for themselves but suffice to say they don't really care about you, never did. God Bless You and OO.

[Scott]

My experience has been that it varies from province to province and there is some leniency -- but not much -- with degrees from various countries.  

[thequietman]

1 hour ago, BruceMangosteen said:

They have a letter from the school. It's not their role to verify degrees and qualifications. Neither the school or immigration are actually qualified to determine this anyhow. It's again about face, loss of face, and perceived power. God Bless You and OO. 

This is so true. It is up to the TCT to decide your credentials. If they issue a teaching licence then it should be straight through the immigration process. Similar happens in the work permit office. You show them your provisional teaching licence and they still want to see your degree. Why?  It has been checked already. If you teach in a Uni which is outside TCT rules, the work permit office and immigration still insist on seeing your degree and transcripts. It is up to any individual Uni in Thailand to decide whom they want. You may have years experience in a particular field but have no degree. It is up to them if they feel you are qualified. It is NOT up to the work permit office, nor immigration. I wish Thai staff would tell them this. But TIT, so they won't. 

[ozmeldo]

On 5/21/2017 at 0:08 PM, thequietman said:

This is so true. It is up to the TCT to decide your credentials. If they issue a teaching licence then it should be straight through the immigration process. Similar happens in the work permit office. You show them your provisional teaching licence and they still want to see your degree. Why?  It has been checked already. If you teach in a Uni which is outside TCT rules, the work permit office and immigration still insist on seeing your degree and transcripts. It is up to any individual Uni in Thailand to decide whom they want. You may have years experience in a particular field but have no degree. It is up to them if they feel you are qualified. It is NOT up to the work permit office, nor immigration. I wish Thai staff would tell them this. But TIT, so they won't. 

 

I disagree. They are separate issues. Immigration is issuing you a visa based essentially on your diploma. 

 

If there was not so much abuse, this would not be an issue. IMO its not just the fraud but all the sketchy legitimate degrees from dodgy educational institutions and non-academic majors.

[BruceMangosteen]

4 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

 

I disagree. They are separate issues. Immigration is issuing you a visa based essentially on your diploma. 

 

If there was not so much abuse, this would not be an issue. IMO its not just the fraud but all the sketchy legitimate degrees from dodgy educational institutions and non-academic majors.

Hello mate. Immigration is in fact issuing you a VISA based on a request from the school, not your diploma. Abuse isn't their concern. Adding to that I will again state they aren't qualified to determine the authenticity of said degrees. It's all a matter of needing a teacher to teach because a Thai can't be found to do it. That is one of the letters in Thai with each request from said school. That and money. Cheers mate and God Bless You OO.

[Airbagwill]

Isn't hard to identify fake degrees... There is a Wikipedia web site.... Perhaps immigration could speed up the task by logging on to that?

[Scott]

Troll posts removed along with replies.  

[ozmeldo]

On 5/27/2017 at 10:40 AM, BruceMangosteen said:

Hello mate. Immigration is in fact issuing you a VISA based on a request from the school, not your diploma. Abuse isn't their concern. Adding to that I will again state they aren't qualified to determine the authenticity of said degrees. It's all a matter of needing a teacher to teach because a Thai can't be found to do it. That is one of the letters in Thai with each request from said school. That and money. Cheers mate and God Bless You OO.

And I disagree with this as would Immigration.

 

You are allowed to teach at that school based on certain criteria, having graduated with a Bachelor's is a primary criterion.

 

Immigration is qualified in many respects to determine a degree's authenticity. Whether they are actually capable of doing so may be an open question. Nonetheless, dejure and defacto they will give the thumbs up or down. In the end, they are final arbitrar so whinging about it just makes for poor form.

 

The letter is just formality.

 

Sorry, your life experience degree might not get you that visa and 30k pm you were banking on this year. 

 

It really wouldn't matter if it were the janitor who was reviewing the applications. Whatever the hurdle, it's how high? 

 

Up to you.