The Tale of two ty250 Mono's - pic heavy

[thaiguzzi]

So, paintwork off to the painters, in 4 lots of different colours, so as not to confuse the old guy, spread over 4 weeks.

Time to attack the list of things to do. Below is just some of the jobs on the list.

# Find the best 2 items or pairs of components from 4 or in some cases 5. Fork legs, fork stanchions, fork yokes, sump plates, air boxes, rims and hubs, brake plates, rim locks, swing arms, swing arm bearings and bobbins, multi link rear shock components inc bearings and bobbins, rear shocks, side stands, chain tensioners etc.

# Recondition/renovate the above best items.

'# Fabricate 2 x alloy shark fins copied from the original one plastic Yamaha component i had, make a steel threaded bracket and weld to the swing arms. Only one s/arm from 5 had this bracket.

# Machine up a threaded insert for a grease nipple on each rear brake lever, as this would stop further slop in the frame bushings due to not being lubed in 33 years.

# Modify air box lids by removing the internal snorkel and milling one large slot down the middle.

# Fit and drill locating holes in all 3 fibreglass rear mudguards.

# Machine 4 x alloy weird shape threaded top hat bosses to fit into the seat base rubber grommets, to take s/s button heads rather than plastic locators.

# Machine 2 x pretty alloy tapered speedo drive replacement front wheel spacers.

# Machine a front fork bush replacement tool, and another tool for the fork seals.

# Modify 2 x reed cages as per the Boyesen instructions (turn an 8 window cage into a 4 window cage) and fit 2 x sets of dual stage Boyesen power reeds.

# Machine 4 x nylon h/bar end plugs.

# Machine all the new s/steel fasteners on show. That's a 10 degree taper on allen heads and a facing off  hex heads, followed by a ball nose end mill to give them a nice concave lightened head. With no lettering.

# Shorten 2 x kick start levers by 1.5" to replicate the  competition alloy versions. Look much neater tucked into a recess on the cylinder barrel fins.

# Modify 2x rubber s/arm chain protectors bought locally for some local bike (MSX?) with a stanley knife and a drill.

  And a bunch more stuff.....

[thaiguzzi]

9 minutes ago, papa al said:

Bought from the second owner who says,

head has never been off.

Second owner put the vast majority of the

~400 [indicated] miles on the bike

when papa bought her.

Not competition, just fooling around

during annual elk hunting camps,

&c.

1st owner [family] runs Faye Meyers, the biggest MC dealership in Denver.

I didn't verify this info.

Maybe they lying.

Been lied to before.

All papa knows is that she charges up steep climbs,

[like mine-tailings dumps,]

like a boss.

2nd gear, 3rd gear...

1st is selected for boulder crawls.

Tested at over 12,500' AGL. !!

I think they went back to 250 because 350cc power-plant was

almost over-kill

at common elevations.

Jap bean-counters realised

that fancy chrome bore was an unneccesary expense.

Hell, the Brits would never know the difference.

They would buy them

even if pink!

 

Had to be something wrong there dude.

Yamaha made the TY250 from 73-83, much mods over the years, then revolutionized the world with the mono in 84, complete re-design of the engine, making it another 8 years till 92. They then came out with the TYZ for another few years. That's well over two decades of 250, 3 versions, yet the 350 mono only made for two? Sales disaster?

Check out the CR dude. 5.3:1. Something amiss there in the design dept. Hell that's side valve single or Briggs and Stratton territory...

Just had a look at my Clymer w/shop manuals for Spanish singles 60's - 70's, Ossa , Bultaco, Montesa, all rolled into one book.

Bultaco 250 Sherpa T, 14.1 bhp @ 5,500 rpm, 9.0:1 CR

Bultaco 350 Sherpa T, 18.5 bhp @ 6,500 rpm, 9.0:1 CR

 The earlier Alpina 350 ran an 8.5:1 CR.

These are old school, designed in the 60's-70's 2 strokes, piston ported, prior to reed valves being invented.

5.3:1 ??

[thaiguzzi]

Painter i was using is a lovely old guy, who has two motorcycle drag racing nuts for sons. One works for him in his auto body shop, the other son has his own auto body shop  a kilo away doing purely insurance work. Dad gets all the private stuff. We agree a price and one colour per week.

'Ol Yeller was straight forward. Black chassis, yellow bodywork.

'Ol Blu was originally gonna be silver chassis and a very pale, almost sky blue bodywork colour. Early Yamaha trials bikes used this colour as did the very popular DT series. But after lots of thought and multiple staring at hundreds of air cooled mono shock and twin shock bikes of that era, i realised the nicest colour scheme of all was the last of the Bultacos. Early 80's. So, as a homage and a tip of the hat to the last of the famous Bul's, 'Ol Blu was going to be a 1984 Yamaha ty250 Mono copy of a late Bultaco. Colour wise... Plus speed blocks...

[thaiguzzi]

'Ol Yeller's stuff back from the painter's;

 

[thaiguzzi]

 

'Ol Blu's stuff back from the painter's;

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

No 'Ol Blu front mudguard in those shots, due to having a brand new white plastic front guard in among the spares.

'Ol Yeller has a new fibreglass Made In CM front guard.

Both bikes got white rear mudguards, new glass made in CM.

 

No more pics for a couple of days, just finished 'Ol Blu's rolling chassis yesterday. Now off to start on 'Ol Yeller....

[ktm jeff]

This is way better than any TV series. Cracking work there mate.  We all await the finished bikes. Would you mind adding some prices to each set of work you outsource , just to give others an idea of what is available , for what price . Cheers JEFF.

[thaiguzzi]

# Paintwork per bike, 4k. That is what you see.

# What you have not yet seen is all the small stuff painted silver. Heat shield, sidestands, rear brake levers and arms, fork braces, wheel and s/arm spindles,  etc etc. H/bar levers and perches painted black. This was all done by myself with 9 cans of rattle can spray paint. 3 primer, 3 top coat, 3 lacquer. 45 baht per can. This stuff in the UK would have got sent out for BZP (bright zinc plating) or chrome. Stuck up here in Nakon Nowhere these facilities, quality wise do not exist.

# 4 x wheels painted, spokes and hubs only, not rims, not dis-assembled, 1k. Mucho prep work. Pics to follow.

# Put new tyres and tubes on 4 x rims, inc rim locks (2 per rear rim, 1 per front rim) 400 baht. I knew it was going to be a bastard job, no way was i doing the rear rims, so i gave him 500 baht...

# Speed block decal sets 500 baht.

That's about all i can think of that was outsourced.

So, 10k in total.....

 

[MAZ3]

Hope you stopped for a cuppa?. ;-)

[In the jungle]

Zinc plating is reasonably easy and cheap to get done in and around BKK.  If you need any details for that area let me know.

 

It is chrome I have problems with.  One company decided that a part I gave them already prepared needed further preparation so they polished the manufacturers logo and all other markings off.  It was a rare fifty year old contact breaker cover.  I am still looking for a replacement.  

[thaiguzzi]

Yeah, thanx, i have contacts up here for good engineering work; valve seats, proper re-bores and hones, good tig repair work of alloy cases etc,  even crank grinding. But my m/c shop contacts tell me if i want good BZP or chrome/nickel done, they send it to BKK. There is plating done up here, but apparently it aint good...

[thaiguzzi]

Stardate 2560 update.

 Been busy, working on, er, a couple of Yamaha trials bikes.

The above photos of the paintwork showed two steel petrol tanks. I got the bikes with 3 steel tanks and 1 plastic tank. Ideally i would of liked 2 plastic tanks, then i would of ordered 2 "tank shelters" from Shedworks in the UK. Check out his website. He does stunning fibreglass work for classic trials bikes. For £99 you get a one piece tank/seat unit that fits over the plastic tank and replaces the stock seat base. Look marvelous. However, i also like the lines of the steel tanks, plus i've come close a couple of times of running out of fuel using the plastic tank on Quiet One. 45 minute session and 3.5 litres is pretty much done.

[thaiguzzi]

Gold anodized alloy DID rims of the 70's and 80's as fitted as original equipment to Honda and Yamaha trials bikes were reknowned for rotting and corroding on the inside.

2 of the 5 rear rims confirmed this. Front rims were better.

The pics below does not do the damage and corrosion justice.

 

[thaiguzzi]

So i got myself two decent pairs of wheels and brake plates, off to see the old guy painter, Khun Udom to see what he could do. Sure, he said, strip the hubs out and i'll paint 'em and the brake plates. No, no i said, wheels stay in one piece, you mask the rims, prep and paint the rest inc the spokes. He very politely told me to F off.

 Why can't you strip 'em out he asked. 'cos i'm not spending £97 for one set of front Z spokes and £99 for one set of rear Z spokes, (£400 quid) and then i may as well buy new rims at a £100 a pop. £800 right now on 4 wheels is not going to happen.

So i took them away to a Thai mate of mine who runs a nice little bike shop down a side soi. Very good mechanic, builds up 2 stroke KRR Kawasakis to sell, works on all sorts. And he does his own paintwork. Sure he said. 250 baht per wheel. I gave him a handful of German al/ox cloth strips, a couple of reels of masking tape and let him get on with it. Also agreed a price of 100 baht per tyre/tube/rim to put the tyres on. The rear rims with two rim locks i knew were going to be a bastard. He confirmed this, and i was so happy with his work i gave him 1200 for the paint and 500 for the tyre/tube fitting. He was happy, i was very happy.

Not too shabby...

 

Hubs and (magnesium) brakeplates were matt black originally, spokes were sort of galvanised, partly rust look.

[papa al]

On 5/17/2017 at 1:12 PM, thaiguzzi said:

2 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

So i got myself two decent pairs of wheels and brake plates, off to see the old guy painter, Khun Udom to see what he could do. Sure, he said, strip the hubs out and i'll paint 'em and the brake plates. No, no i said, wheels stay in one piece, you mask the rims, prep and paint the rest inc the spokes. He very politely told me to F off.

 Why can't you strip 'em out he asked. 'cos i'm not spending £97 for one set of front Z spokes and £99 for one set of rear Z spokes, (£400 quid) and then i may as well buy new rims at a £100 a pop. £800 right now on 4 wheels is not going to happen.

So i took them away to a Thai mate of mine who runs a nice little bike shop down a side soi. Very good mechanic, builds up 2 stroke KRR Kawasakis to sell, works on all sorts. And he does his own paintwork. Sure he said. 250 baht per wheel. I gave him a handful of German al/ox cloth strips, a couple of reels of masking tape and let him get on with it. Also agreed a price of 100 baht per tyre/tube/rim to put the tyres on. The rear rims with two rim locks i knew were going to be a bastard. He confirmed this, and i was so happy with his work i gave him 1200 for the paint and 500 for the tyre/tube fitting. He was happy, i was very happy.

Not too shabby...

 

Hubs and (magnesium) brakeplates were matt black originally, spokes were sort of galvanised, partly rust look.

Wheely nice looking

[thaiguzzi]

Last of the pics before i have to upload new ones to the computer.

On all these bikes of this period, there is pretty much no natural finish on any alloy. Everything is painted inc fork sliders, fork braces, mudguard brackets, wheel hubs, etc etc, rims anodized.

Presumably because they get wet a lot, riding thru streams, mud etc and it's an anti corrosion/easy to clean thing.

The yokes (triple trees for 'Mercan readers - what a daft name/description) i wanted a nice matte scotch bright finish. Over the years i've really grown to like this finish, it is easy to re-apply, and the older i get the less i like shiny stuff. Unlike my Triumph... Which if it sees a wet road will take a good most of the day to get pretty again. I'm not joking, 6-8 hours for a proper wax and re-polish. That's what you have to put up with  when most of the bike is polished alloy with a nickel plated frame...

 Anyway, started with the scotch bright on the worst pair, after an hour i realized i was'nt getting very far, so F this for a game of soldiers, onto the polishing spindle and out with the mops...

The only shiny bits on the bike...

 

[thaiguzzi]

Stardate 2560/6.

Managed to upload some more photos.
Bikes 98% finished, bit of this and that, and a mk III version of the Speedblock decals to go on next week.

Also been unable to locate any proper air filter oil for foam air filters, so will have to bodge initially with some temporary lube, engine oil seems to be the consensus and is what was used before foam air filter oil was invented...

Should be up and running by the end of next week.

 

Below is all the stuff rattle can sprayed that i mentioned earlier in this thread. Some stuff is 3 off, to use the best 2 off.

3 cans of primer, 3 cans of base coat, 3 cans of clear lacquer.

Yeah, i know, i'm not a painter either. Nor a decal sticker-onner.

I also got a nasty finger injury prepping one of the parts where the 5" wire wheel slipped and took the top of my left fore finger off. Ouch.

 

[thaiguzzi]

3 sets of multi link rear suspension, dismantled, degreased, checked, cleaned, regreased and re-assembled. No new parts recquired, needle rollers, brgs, bobbins all good, even the seals were re-useable. Ee lad, they don't make them like they used to... (grease nipples help)...

Got one set as a spare, ready to go....

[thaiguzzi]

8 new fork bushes, 4 pattern lower and 4 genuine upper, and 4 new seals ready to go in. All readily available in the UK, bushes were £9 a pop. Quite reasonable i thought.

 

Edited June 3, 2017 by thaiguzzi

[thaiguzzi]

The best of 5 sets of forks ready to go together and make 2 prs of nice forks.

 

[MAZ3]

Coming long nicely, making me think !!!.

[thaiguzzi]

Nice new genuine Talon sprockets brought over in a suitcase from England. Steel front, alloy rear, stock 10/42 gearing. 520 chain i bought over hear locally.

 

[thaiguzzi]

New Boyesen dual stage power reeds fitted to the modified as-per Boyesen recommended reed cages. Basically turning the reed cage into a 4 window cage from an 8 window cage. Always deal direct with Boyesen in the States, excellent to deal with, great service.

 

[thaiguzzi]

Rattley One had to remove the stator rotor cover for some reason, and luckily, the rotor was moving 1/4" left and right or fore and aft. Crappy woodruff key was loose and well worn. Thought drat! Pain in the arse to modify a larger imperial one i had. Light bulb moment! Got 3 spare motors....

So off with all 3 stators, find a good key and continue. Whilst in there i thought i'd weigh and compare a few stators;

left to right is no weight flywheel, flywheel weight half machined off, full weight flywheel (2.4 kgs)...

 

Both bikes now run full weight flywheels. I may at some stage later, try the half width/weight flywheel again.

[thaiguzzi]

Had the carbs to bits to clean again and check everything. Bought new needle jet o rings (important!) and gaskets back from the UK, and some S/S allen heads over here to replace the 'orrible stock cross heads. I've got a little hobby ultrasonic cleaner here, looks like a toaster, can't quite get a full carb body submerged, but keep turning it over through cycles and the thing works quite well.

Discovered (1 out of 4 main jets was legible) i had 3 hex main jets of 110 and a screw slot - not Teykay - 140. After measuring, these jets are thankfully sized on hole diameter rather than flow, i wanted 130-140 after my airbox and pipe mods, and 110 was stock Japanese market 84-85 street size.

So, 3 jaw chuck off the lathe, 5mm collet in, and drill out two main jets to 1.35mm from 1.10mm.

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

1. Yes a reamer would be better than a drill bit.

2. No, i don't own a 1 odd mm reamer.

3. My smallest reamer is 5/16" or 8mm in new money...

4. New main jets are readily available for around £9 each. Not in Thailand.

5. These will work well because the 5mm threaded portion is a large long hollow probably an 1/8" or 3 odd mil diameter in new money and the actual sized hole is very short.

[ktm jeff]

Drilling jets brings back memories. Bikes are looking good. Lighter flywheel gives more "zing". Hope your finger heals/grows !. Be carefull. BTW , whats that "egg" thing , on the bench , behind the flywheels ?.

[thaiguzzi]

4 hours ago, ktm jeff said:

Drilling jets brings back memories. Bikes are looking good. Lighter flywheel gives more "zing". Hope your finger heals/grows !. Be carefull. BTW , whats that "egg" thing , on the bench , behind the flywheels ?.

# Indeed, Rattley One had the half width flywheel weight on last year when i was riding both, and indeed, had more "zing". Did'nt know at the time, i presumed it was down to exhaust internal condition between the two.

# Bench is not a workshop bench, but the kitchen marble counter top. That's where my bread making weighing scales are... Plus, i don't have cocktail making alcohol base in the workshop...

# Egg thing is something the kids brought back from a cinema visit ages ago. Dinosaur thing movie?

[thaiguzzi]

'Ol Blu starting to come together.

These mono ty's are a tight fit compared to previous twin shocks.

The frames have no bottom rails, and a large 4 bolt hole separate front engine plate.

Motor gets sat on something and the frame fits up, and over and in from the right, before being bolted in.

The swing arm spindle goes through the rear of the crank cases too, hence keeping g/box sprocket close to the s/arm pivot.

There are some nice touches, like the c/cases have a steel sleeve each side where the s/arm spindle goes through. Frame and s/arm are steel, so they are no lighter, in fact heavier than some of the last twin shocks, but you cannot break them. In fact they have a bullet proof, unbreakable reputation compared to more modern bikes.

 

[thaiguzzi]

Compared to an earlier twin shock, motor changing or removal is a nightmare.

Earlier models probably change an engine in an hour.

 These, it's back wheel out, rear mudguard off, airbox off, rear shock off, multi link suspended up above, swing arm out, before you can remove the engine. Basically the whole back end.

 

 Swing arm and shock in;