Notre Dame graduates walk out on Pence as he touts free speech

[webfact]

Notre Dame graduates walk out on Pence as he touts free speech

By Frank McGurty

 

U. S. Vice President Mike Pence addresses Chamber of Commerce "Invest in America!" summit in Washington U.S., May 18, 2017. REUTERS/Mary F. Calvert

 

(Reuters) - Dozens of students walked out of Notre Dame University's commencement exercise on Sunday to protest a speech by U.S. Vice President Mike Pence, who warned graduates of the prestigious Catholic school against suppressing free speech.

 

The protesters, among the thousands of graduates and guests assembled in the university's football stadium, stood up when the conservative Republican began his speech and streamed out of the ceremony, to the jeers of some of those who remained.

 

A few of the students had messages of protest attached to their traditional "mortarboard" graduation caps. One of them displayed an inverted U.S. flag, a sign of protest popularized during the Vietnam War era, and the words "Are we great again yet?," a reference to President Donald Trump's campaign slogan.

 

In his speech at the Indiana school, Pence squarely addressed the festering controversy of what constitutes free speech on campus, an issue that has intensified at many universities since Trump's election victory last year.

 

"I would submit that the increasing intolerance and suppression of the time-honored tradition of free expression on our campuses jeopardizes the liberties of every American. This should not, and must not be met with silence," Pence said, in an apparent reference to efforts to bar him from speaking.

 

Protests, some of them violent, have erupted at schools across the country in recent months to stop appearances by conservative commentators such as Ann Coulter and Milo Yiannopoulos. In at least some cases, schools have cancelled the events, citing safety concerns.

 

Organizers of the Notre Dame protest said they wanted to voice their objections to policies advocated by Pence as part of the Trump administration and while he was governor, including a proposal to suspend immigration from some Muslim-majority countries that has so far been blocked in courts.

 

"The participation and degree-conferring of VP Pence stand as an endorsement of policies and actions which directly contradict Catholic social teachings and values," undergraduate Xitlaly Estrada was quoted as saying in a statement from We Stand For ND, a group that helped organize the walk-out.

 

Pence, who served as Indiana's governor before his election as vice president, also took issue with efforts at some U.S. universities to shelter students from what they consider objectionable points of view or to recommend language to be used in classes or other school functions.

 

"Far too many campuses across America have been characterized by speech codes, safe zones, tone policing, administration-sanctioned political correctness all of which amounts to nothing less than the suppression of the freedom of speech," Pence told the audience at the campus in South Bend.

 

Pence delivered his address as Trump completed the initial day of the first overseas trip of his presidency. In a speech in Saudi Arabia, Trump called on Middle Eastern leaders to do their fair share to defeat Islamist extremists.

 

(Reporting By Frank McGurty in New York; Editing by Mary Milliken)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-05-22

[mamypoko]

This kind of thing is rather unusual, almost rare, like a truffle and just as delicious  

[goldenbrwn1]

The adults are scared of the kids in these so called prestigious places of learning. 

Is there looney far left teachers bullying the rest with threats of words ending in ism? And therefore having the ear of these students? 

 

I've watched a few utube videos of these so called liberal students and I was in shock of the violence used by them to others that disagreed with them.  They call themselves advocates of free speech and tolerance but won't allow anyone who doesn't follow their line speak out and try to shut them down with shouting, rioting ect. They even deny stopping free speech and call it 'de-platforming' lol.  

[Jingthing]

The protest had zilch to do with opposing free speech, safe zones, or liberal professors.

 

Instead, the protest was a form of free speech in the sense it was a free protest shown in action.

 

It was motivated by two major political issues which Pence represents:

 

Pence is the most anti-gay civil rights V.P. in American history (and the way things are going he is heading towards the presidency now).

 

I will qualify that by acknowledging that the very concept of gay civil rights is a relatively modern concept so further in the past presidents and vice presidents didn't even have a public policy on such issues. 

 

The trump-Pence position on immigration. The Muslim thing and also that fact the trump promised to focus on deporting illegals with serious criminal records ("bad hombres") but the reality is turning out to be much much different and much much more extremist ... a very high percentage of those being deported now either have no criminal record or very minor violations. 

 

The protesters had no intention to and did not stop the speech. The walkout was simply a protest of Pence's policies and freedom of protest is something that decent Americans of all political flavors highly value. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Jingthing

[phantomfiddler]

America appears to be experiencing a total assault against democracy ! The liberal left, composed of social service parasites and likewise wasters, will let nothing stand in their path. I had always thought that democracy meant that the most popular man won the vote, and everyone tolerated the decision until the next election took place. This does not seem to be happening. Grow up, lefty liberals, and behave yourselves !

[Jingthing]

Just now, phantomfiddler said:

America appears to be experiencing a total assault against democracy ! The liberal left, composed of social service parasites and likewise wasters, will let nothing stand in their path. I had always thought that democracy meant that the most popular man won the vote, and everyone tolerated the decision until the next election took place. This does not seem to be happening. Grow up, lefty liberals, and behave yourselves !

You clearly do not understand the U.S. system. Freedom of dissent does NOT end after election days. That applies to all political flavors. Ask the tea party people that were so passionate about opposing Obama. 

[baboon]

35 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You clearly do not understand the U.S. system. Freedom of dissent does NOT end after election days. That applies to all political flavors. Ask the tea party people that were so passionate about opposing Obama. 

...but of course that was different. It always is to the lunatic fringe of the right.

 

Mind you, you did well to make it to the end of the post. My rule of thumb is to stop reading any post as soon as 'The left wing liberal...' crops up - it marks the writer out as someone who lacks the imagination to do other than repeat the same tired slogans over and over again and as such, has nothing useful to add to the discourse.

[Jonmarleesco]

If that is the best response they have, let's trust we don't see any of them in a position that involves any kind of responsibility until they learn what free speech means.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

The adults are scared of the kids in these so called prestigious places of learning. 

Is there looney far left teachers bullying the rest with threats of words ending in ism? And therefore having the ear of these students? 

 

I've watched a few utube videos of these so called liberal students and I was in shock of the violence used by them to others that disagreed with them.  They call themselves advocates of free speech and tolerance but won't allow anyone who doesn't follow their line speak out and try to shut them down with shouting, rioting ect. They even deny stopping free speech and call it 'de-platforming' lol.  

I wonder what the parents think of their little darlings refusing to hear another side of the story. So much for open minds!

I'd like to see graduation certificates for students that behave like that shredded. See how far they are prepared to go if there was a consequence to their actions.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 minutes ago, baboon said:

...but of course that was different. It always is to the lunatic fringe of the right.

 

Mind you, you did well to make it to the end of the post. My rule of thumb is to stop reading any post as soon as 'The left wing liberal...' crops up - it marks the writer out as someone who lacks the imagination to do other than repeat the same tired slogans over and over again and as such, has nothing useful to add to the discourse.

The lunatic fringe of the left always think they are the only "right" people in the room.

 

My rule of thumb is to stop reading any post as soon as offensive language crops up. It shows the writer to be someone that lacks the ability to make a reasoned argument and has to resort to offensive and pointless bad language, as they have nothing useful to add to the conversation.

Edited May 22, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[dunroaming]

Being able to show your opposition and disagreement IS democracy.  You should never just lie down and accept things that are fundamentally wrong. Just like you have the right to defend the people you think are correct, no matter how misguided that might be.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Rimmer
Quote removed

[elgordo38]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The protest had zilch to do with opposing free speech, safe zones, or liberal professors.

 

Instead, the protest was a form of free speech in the sense it was a free protest shown in action.

 

It was motivated by two major political issues which Pence represents:

 

Pence is the most anti-gay civil rights V.P. in American history (and the way things are going he is heading towards the presidency now).

 

I will qualify that by acknowledging that the very concept of gay civil rights is a relatively modern concept so further in the past presidents and vice presidents didn't even have a public policy on such issues. 

 

The trump-Pence position on immigration. The Muslim thing and also that fact the trump promised to focus on deporting illegals with serious criminal records ("bad hombres") but the reality is turning out to be much much different and much much more extremist ... a very high percentage of those being deported now either have no criminal record or very minor violations. 

 

The protesters had no intention to and did not stop the speech. The walkout was simply a protest of Pence's policies and freedom of protest is something that decent Americans of all political flavors highly value. 

Love the hat. Was disappointed that more did not walk out but its a start. The walkers realized that the VP was trying to snow them at the beginning of summer no less. If the young can truly grasp what is going on there is help down the road. To bad I will not be here to see it. 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Jonmarleesco said:

If that is the best response they have, let's trust we don't see any of them in a position that involves any kind of responsibility until they learn what free speech means.

I don't get your point.

Pence wasn't speaking about the issues being protested, gay rights and immigration. 

It wasn't a setting for a debate session, even if he was.

This group explicit goals were against either disrupting the speech with noise or stopping the speech.

They merely wanted to express their POV about those two issues, which Pence represents.

It seems to me a walk out was an entirely good way to express that. They could have also done so by staying and holding signs perhaps. Or both.

Suggesting they were irresponsible to express peaceful protest is in my view truly despicable. 

[elgordo38]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The lunatic fringe of the left always think they are the only "right" people in the room.

 

My rule of thumb is to stop reading any post as soon as offensive language crops up. It marks the writer out as someone that lacks the ability to make a reasoned argument and has to resort to offensive and pointless bad language, as they have nothing useful to add to the conversation.

Love the last paragraph. In the first line there are enough "lunatics" on the right and left to go around. Who is right or wrong? time will tell. 

[baboon]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The lunatic fringe of the left always think they are the only "right" people in the room.

 

My rule of thumb is to stop reading any post as soon as offensive language crops up. It marks the writer out as someone that lacks the ability to make a reasoned argument and has to resort to offensive and pointless bad language, as they have nothing useful to add to the conversation.

The lunatic fringe of either political wing always think they are the only "right" people in the room. That is what makes them a lunatic fringe. Of course the lunatic fringe can't see that.

[goldenbrwn1]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't get your point.

Pence wasn't speaking about the issues being protested, gay rights and immigration. 

It wasn't a setting for a debate session, even if he was.

This group explicit goals were against either disrupting the speech with noise or stopping the speech.

They merely wanted to express their POV about those two issues, which Pence represents.

It seems to me a walk out was an entirely good way to express that. They could have also done so by staying and holding signs perhaps. Or both.

Suggesting they were irresponsible to express peaceful protest is in my view truly despicable. 

I think his point was that they didn't go far enough?

[Jingthing]

It should be noted the speech was in INDIANA, where Pence used to be governor. So people in INDIANA know what Pence is really about better than most. Many pundits think Pence would have lost a reelection bid in Indiana (largely about this atrocious anti-gay bigotry) if he had run, which was a big reason going for the vice presidency was so attractive to him. Stay in Indiana, likely end of political careers, run for VP, if winning, an excellent chance of being president, sooner or late. 

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

I think his point was that they didn't go far enough?

Perhaps they should have just not entered the room at all, and just made a silent protest outside. The media would still have covered it- too juicy to resist.

By walking out they disrespected their own government that Pence represents. How would they feel if students walked out on a president Clinton? I think they would have been screaming with faux outrage.

By doing what they did they have no right to complain if others do the same to their heroes.

[baboon]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 How would they feel if students walked out on a president Clinton? I think they would have been screaming with faux outrage.

By doing what they did they have no right to complain if others do the same to their heroes.

There's you and me on the same page. You see it all the time:

 

'That Obama was the worst thing that happened to America since World War II. Dreadful man. Disgusting."

"At least he will never be as dreadful as that clown Trump.'

"WHAT?? How DARE you insult our President like that? How DARE you?"

 

Of course there is no real point in engaging with that type on either side. They are so blinkered they simply can't understand why the other side would be so rude. Yes, they themselves may have said X about X, but that was different...

 

[iReason]

1 hour ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Is there looney far left teachers bullying the rest with threats of words ending in ism? And therefore having the ear of these students? 

I've watched a few utube videos of these so called liberal students and I was in shock of the violence used by them to others that disagreed with them.  

 

Strange, I don't see the word "liberal" anywhere in the article.

 

Just in your bigoted fantastical musings...

[dunroaming]

32 minutes ago, baboon said:

The lunatic fringe of either political wing always think they are the only "right" people in the room. That is what makes them a lunatic fringe. Of course the lunatic fringe can't see that.

I think the expression "lunatic left" or " lunatic right" is very overused as an insult to whichever side you are attacking.  We all use it when in reality most of us are slightly off centre to the right or the left...... That is apart from the right wing nutjobs of course!

[goldenbrwn1]

2 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

Strange, I don't see the word "liberal" anywhere in the article.

 

Just in your bigoted fantastical musings...

'Fantastical musings ' love that . Not so much being called a bigot. No need for that friend. Tbf the article wasn't about those fanatical A.N.T.I.F.A type students I was describing in my first post.  Even so there is a growing problem it seems in our colleges and universities. But that's another debate for another day maybe.

[iReason]

41 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wonder what the parents think of their little darlings refusing to hear another side of the story.

 

I'd like to see graduation certificates for students that behave like that shredded.

 

Total contradiction in just two lines.

[stander]

They knew Pence was going to be giving a speech, so why did they attend in the first place? I guess they had to "demonstrate" their disapproval. Free speech reigns supreme.

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

America appears to be experiencing a total assault against democracy ! The liberal left, composed of social service parasites and likewise wasters, will let nothing stand in their path. I had always thought that democracy meant that the most popular man won the vote, and everyone tolerated the decision until the next election took place. This does not seem to be happening. Grow up, lefty liberals, and behave yourselves !

So democracy means: shut up, we won and you cant voice your opinion for the next 4 years?

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, stander said:

They knew Pence was going to be giving a speech, so why did they attend in the first place? I guess they had to "demonstrate" their disapproval. Free speech reigns supreme.

Exactly. They exercised their right to free speech, so really were supporting (that part of) Pence's speech.

[Berkshire]

21 minutes ago, stander said:

They knew Pence was going to be giving a speech, so why did they attend in the first place? I guess they had to "demonstrate" their disapproval. Free speech reigns supreme.

You're asking why these students attended their own graduation?  Seriously?  You Trump minions need to do better. 

[iReason]

6 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Not so much being called a bigot. No need for that friend.

 

I call 'em the way I see 'em.

 

You charged out of the gate with your broad brush and started swathing it all over the topic with your preconceived bigotry.

 

Starting by branding people "these so called liberal students", and the instructors themselves: "looney far left teachers bullying the rest"

 

And remarkably, further displayed your stunning ignorance of the Roman Catholic college itself.

 

https://www.niche.com/colleges/rankings/most-conservative-colleges/s/indiana/

 

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So democracy means: shut up, we won and you cant voice your opinion for the next 4 years?

No, democracy means that someone won and don't go around rioting because one doesn't like the result.

They didn't know what he was going to say, so they were protesting the man, not what he said. Speech hadn't even started so not about free speech.

Personally I could care less if some spoilt brats think they have the right to disrespect the VP of the US, but they will find the real world is less tolerant of their opinions.

[goldenbrwn1]

4 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

I call 'em the way I see 'em.

 

You charged out of the gate with your broad brush and started swathing it all over the topic with your preconceived bigotry.

 

Starting by branding people "these so called liberal students", and the instructors themselves: "looney far left teachers bullying the rest"

 

And remarkably, further displayed your stunning ignorance of the Roman Catholic college itself.

 

https://www.niche.com/colleges/rankings/most-conservative-colleges/s/indiana/

 

I love your quotes but your reading skills leave a lot to be desired. I never said there 'are' these teachers, I asked 'are there' as in a question. The utube videos I mentioned were of the so called liberal students who were punching people and breaking sh## up. And what the hell does it matter if the so called college is Roman Catholic? Anyways here we go......