Phuket as a full-time home

[madmax2]

I have sold all my investment properties in Australia because the Australian government now tax me as a foreign resident at a flat rate of 32.5% on any profit i make, not worth owning property there now in my opinion, i have money in the bank their on which interest is taxed at a flat rate of 10% as a foreign resident which is better than the tax rates here, plus the interest paid their is a higher rate

They claim i am a resident of Thailand, which i am not, i live here on a temporary visa like most farangs, so now i am a resident of nowhere

 

I have ample funds available to buy property here if the price is right as a investment, Some properties have sold here recently at approx 40% of the asking price, none of these properties have i been interested in mainly because of their location and lack of infrastructure

I have recently made offers on 2 properties, both sales fell thru because the properties were not actually owned by the seller or i was misinformed about monthly estate fees, quoted 2500 baht a month,  then told they were actually 10,000 baht a month when my offer was excepted, told the agent where to go, very politely of coarse

 

I would invest in property here if i could find it at a price i am prepared to pay in a location i liked

A property recently came on the market in Thalang 3x2 on about 600SQM of land from memory priced at 2.7M which sold in about i day, i am not interested in owning property in that area but it was a excellent buy and these types of properties do come up occasionally in all areas put on the market by genuine sellers who are usually returning to their home country (if they have one) 

[madmax2]

39 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Most often buying land and building is economic compared with buying 2nd market as owners have idea of asking a high sell price as no one want to loose money on the initial buy price, want to be seen as making a profit. Be 'seen' is key, no one want anyone to know what the actual sell price was.

 

As for building, you get to design the layout you want, can control the build and material quality. Downside - might not get you outlay back quickly if need to sell.

Better buying established houses 3 or more years old, Then you can see and faults in their construction, there seem to be no regulated building requirements here, most of the newly constructed houses i have inspected are constructed with half thickness breeze/cinder blocks by Thai and foreign speculators who drive luxury vehicles ( the foreigners)

[timkeen08]

 
"A good life is what it's all about wherever you are." - I agree. 
 
However, certain places in Thailand are changing, rapidly, and none more so than Phuket.  Over development, the tourist demographic, and the terrible traffic being prime examples.
 
My point being, one must regularly self assess their happiness within their current environment. 
 
In relation to Phuket, the lifestyle on offer here today, from island wide, to the individual's residence, may not be the lifestyle on offer 6 months from now, and this also extends to business operations. 

Very good points made. I however do not forsee the need of any assessment to our happiness due to changes occurring in our area. I agree that much larger areas such as Phuket may have need of such assessments.

The biggest possible change I can think of is the continuation of the 211 4-lane expansion when it reaches our village. This I count as a positive since I can then drive to Nong Khai in 30 minutes. Not all changes have negative impact.

Oh I forgot, our road is the last cobblestone road leading to the Mekong and has been marked for paving over. This means that buffalo and cows will not be herded down our road to the river for a drink. A negative for the herders, there again a positive for us.

I will however heed your advise and add 1 meter to my new fence and gates plan in case our new road and 4-lane will bring more vehicle traffic, more crime, and bring bargirls walking down our road. Oh I forgot again, we don't have a bar. Another positive.

Happiness is matter of perseption and personal choice. Assessment already made and mine is not Phuket. There may yet be hope for Phuket.

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[stevenl]

7 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Tania Road.

My lady recently closed her last massage shop in Patong (Nanai) and opened one in Tania Road.

(Before the usual F W trolls start with their 20 questions or hilarious "boiled frog" rubbish, I will point out that her "hobby" shops cost me much more than any revenue they make. They keep her happy and provide people from her village with work and accommodation)

I am happier because this place is much closer to where we live, the rent is half she was paying in Patong,  there was no key money involved with the new place, and a lot of the furniture and equipment that was clogging up the house have been moved there. (I was about to hire storage elsewhere for all this junk).

 

A few interesting, current facts about Tania road.

There is a new resort hotel under construction, opposite Dr Chusaks clinic. This will bring more tourists to the area and may be partly responsible for a few of the new startups in the street. Since she started there others have followed. Things are moving.

There were plans to demolish many buildings on the north side to expand the road and make a footpath. The usual Thai holdouts may have scuttled this plan. 

Alternatively there are plans to make the road one way (I don't know which direction) and open up the north side with food/market type places.

It seems some want to breathe life back into that road.

I don't expect my Lady's business to suddenly get in the black, but will see what the next high season brings.

 

 

Problem is that new hotel is going very slow.

 

It was the old Lucky Guesthouse, same owner who has more properties in the area. He is only building when he has enough money from rent from his other properties, so it is going slowly for a few years already.

[NamKangMan]

4 hours ago, timkeen08 said:

Very good points made. I however do not forsee the need of any assessment to our happiness due to changes occurring in our area. I agree that much larger areas such as Phuket may have need of such assessments.

The biggest possible change I can think of is the continuation of the 211 4-lane expansion when it reaches our village. This I count as a positive since I can then drive to Nong Khai in 30 minutes. Not all changes have negative impact.

Oh I forgot, our road is the last cobblestone road leading to the Mekong and has been marked for paving over. This means that buffalo and cows will not be herded down our road to the river for a drink. A negative for the herders, there again a positive for us.

I will however heed your advise and add 1 meter to my new fence and gates plan in case our new road and 4-lane will bring more vehicle traffic, more crime, and bring bargirls walking down our road. Oh I forgot again, we don't have a bar. Another positive.

Happiness is matter of perseption and personal choice. Assessment already made and mine is not Phuket. There may yet be hope for Phuket.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 

 

"Happiness is matter of perseption and personal choice." - I completely agree, however, you assume that you have a right to live in Thailand, past that little sticker in your passport.

 

Can / should this permission be relied upon for our choice of a "full time home" when it comes to buying property in Thailand?

[timkeen08]

 
"Happiness is matter of perseption and personal choice." - I completely agree, however, you assume that you have a right to live in Thailand, past that little sticker in your passport.
 
Can / should this permission be relied upon for our choice of a "full time home" when it comes to buying property in Thailand?

Your words and assumptions not mine.

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[NamKangMan]

15 minutes ago, timkeen08 said:

Your words and assumptions not mine.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 

 

"I however do not forsee the need of any assessment to our happiness due to changes occurring in our area." - merely pointing out a new 4 lane expansions coming to your area may be the least of your concerns for your happiness in Thailand, if visa rules change. 

 

That little sticker in your passport that allows you to live in a little village is the same little sticker that allows others to live in a major tourist area. 

 

As another member said, he is now a resident of nowhere, and as we all know, we are certainly not residents of Thailand.

 

Simply mentioning the point that one's financial ability to own land here is one thing, whilst their future ability to actually live it it is another. 

 

A little off topic, but I know a few guys that can not be here anymore, month about, so even if they were interested in buying property here, and making Phuket their "base" or "full time home" - they no longer can, due to visa laws.

 

So that's another segment of buyers out of the property market. 

 

[timkeen08]

 
"I however do not forsee the need of any assessment to our happiness due to changes occurring in our area." - merely pointing out a new 4 lane expansions coming to your area may be the least of your concerns for your happiness in Thailand, if visa rules change. 
 
That little sticker in your passport that allows you to live in a little village is the same little sticker that allows others to live in a major tourist area. 
 
As another member said, he is now a resident of nowhere, and as we all know, we are certainly not residents of Thailand.
 
Simply mentioning the point that one's financial ability to own land here is one thing, whilst their future ability to actually live it it is another. 
 
A little off topic, but I know a few guys that can not be here anymore, month about, so even if they were interested in buying property here, and making Phuket their "base" or "full time home" - they no longer can, due to visa laws.
 
So that's another segment of buyers out of the property market. 
 

As I am impowered to do nothing to change visa rules, your words are wasted on me. Try someone else. They might bite.

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[timkeen08]

As I am empowered to do nothing to change visa rules, your words are wasted on me. Try someone else. They might bite.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[NamKangMan]

15 minutes ago, timkeen08 said:

As I am impowered to do nothing to change visa rules, your words are wasted on me. Try someone else. They might bite.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 

 

And that's my point. 

 

We assess our happiness here, in our respective areas, and rarely give thought that our ability to remain here can be revoked at anytime, because we are not Thai citizens, or even Thai residents, by law. 

 

Just saying.  Not looking to bait.

 

I have always said, ALL farang need a "Plan B' alternative to Thailand. 

 

We have to look past just changes to our area, that may effect our happiness, and also consider changes to visa laws, exchange rates, health, relationship status, property ownership laws, property investment laws, tourists demographics, supply and demand etc etc, and in the TV member Simon's case, being threatened to leave the island. 

 

 

 

 

 

[timkeen08]

 
And that's my point. 
 
We assess our happiness here, in our respective areas, and rarely give thought that our ability to remain here can be revoked at anytime, because we are not Thai citizens, or even Thai residents, by law. 
 
Just saying.  Not looking to bait.
 
I have always said, ALL farang need a "Plan B' alternative to Thailand. 
 
We have to look past just changes to our area, that may effect our happiness, and also consider changes to visa laws, exchange rates, health, relationship status, property ownership laws, property investment laws, tourists demographics, supply and demand etc etc, and in the TV member Simon's case, being threatened to leave the island. 
 
 
 
 
 

You evidently missed the point that your words are wasted on me. Ramble on somewhere else. You assume that I am impressed.

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[eisfeld]

8 hours ago, madmax2 said:

They claim i am a resident of Thailand, which i am not, i live here on a temporary visa like most farangs, so now i am a resident of nowhere

Residency for tax purposes has nothing to do with visas. If you stay in Thailand for at least 180 days in a year, then you are a resident of Thailand for tax purposes and fully liable for tax in Thailand. This can happen even on visa exempt entries. Their claim that you are a resident here is therefor probably true (I assume you stay here for more than 180 days a year). It is possible to be not a tax resident of any country but it usually involves traveling between 3 or more countries throughout the year and carefully timing the stays or living inside an airport or otherwise between borders.

[perthperson]

Just now, eisfeld said:

Residency for tax purposes has nothing to do with visas. If you stay in Thailand for at least 180 days in a year, then you are a resident of Thailand for tax purposes and fully liable for tax in Thailand. This can happen even on visa exempt entries. Their claim that you are a resident here is therefor probably true (I assume you stay here for more than 180 days a year). It is possible to be not a tax resident of any country but it usually involves traveling between 3 or more countries throughout the year and carefully timing the stays or living inside an airport or otherwise between borders.

All my income derives from the UK where it is subject to UK tax. Despite staying in Thailand for well over 180 days a year I will never be liable for payment of tax in Thailand because a "tax treaty " exists between the UK and Thailand which effectively removes any liability for Thai tax and the risk of "double taxation".  Thailand has similar treaties with many other countries.

[madmax2]

11 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Residency for tax purposes has nothing to do with visas. If you stay in Thailand for at least 180 days in a year, then you are a resident of Thailand for tax purposes and fully liable for tax in Thailand. This can happen even on visa exempt entries. Their claim that you are a resident here is therefor probably true (I assume you stay here for more than 180 days a year). It is possible to be not a tax resident of any country but it usually involves traveling between 3 or more countries throughout the year and carefully timing the stays or living inside an airport or otherwise between borders.

I do not work here, i am self supporting and have brought a substantial amount of money into Thailand, a lot more than required for a visa, so i am not a resident for any purpose

I still pay a substantial amount of tax in Australia for the 2015/2016 and 2016/2017 financial years more the the annual basic wage in Australia but i am not consider by the powers to be a resident their either 

<removed>

 

 The only tax i pay here is on bank interest at 15% which applies to all Thai bank accounts Thai and foreign and is a automatic deduction  

Edited July 10, 2017 by ubonjoe
Removed a inflammatory comment

[perthperson]

10 minutes ago, madmax2 said:

 The only tax i pay here is on bank interest at 15% which applies to all Thai bank accounts Thai and foreign and is a automatic deduction  

Which can be reclaimed ! 

[madmax2]

1 minute ago, perthperson said:

Which can be reclaimed ! 

If if can be recovered its not worth the effort to do it in my opinion if its like making any other claim here for return of monies paid

half of a percent interest per annum on which you pay 15% tax, you must be joking 

[perthperson]

Just now, madmax2 said:

If if can be recovered its not worth the effort to do it in my opinion if its like making any other claim here for return of monies paid

half of a percent interest per annum on which you pay 15% tax, you must be joking 

More than 0.5% interest can be obtained by those with money. 

[eezergood]

On 03/06/2017 at 4:33 PM, tomwct said:

Why would you want to live in Phuket? You love tourists? You love foreign expats? You love Thai ladies for sex? You love paying too much at tourist restaurants? I've lived in Thailand for 13 years and love Isan. Very few tourists! Very few expats Love low costs Thai Food! I love my Thai wife! No, I would never live in Phuket, in fact, I've never been to Phuket and never plan to. Move to Isan and enjoy Thailand and it's

people.

so why are you trolling the Phuket section?

[madmax2]

1 hour ago, perthperson said:

More than 0.5% interest can be obtained by those with money. 

I know that as anyone with money to save or invest does, but its not worth investing in term deposits here for the interest they pay on them,

Better to keep the money freely available to invest elsewhere if the opportunity comes up, and it usually does if you wait 

Even in Australia i am happy with 2% interest on my everyday bank account which i keep my funds in and which i can withdraw funds from or all the money in the account any time i want to 

 

We pay annual tax on our interest on bank accounts in Thailand of 10,500 baht, which is nothing and a donation to the Thai economy as far as i am concerned, just like the tax paid on purchases

I pay a lot more tax on my Aussie bank account and keep most of my money there, the top 4 Aussie banks are in the top 20 safest banks in the world the last time i checked of over 14,000 banks and saving societies world wide

 

No Thai bank is in the top 100 safest banks in the world and the deposits here are only covered by insurance for up to 1M baht, 98% of bank accounts here have less than 1m baht in them the last time i checked so most people are covered by insurance for their bank savings, we are not, but i do not believe there will be any financial problems here with the banks in the foreseeable future, If i did i would return the money to Australia, Where it came from in the first place

 

Any financial advice you think you can give me and i do not know about will be gratefully accepted

We all never stop learning 

 

[eisfeld]

6 hours ago, madmax2 said:

I do not work here, i am self supporting and have brought a substantial amount of money into Thailand, a lot more than required for a visa, so i am not a resident for any purpose

I still pay a substantial amount of tax in Australia for the 2015/2016 and 2016/2017 financial years more the the annual basic wage in Australia but i am not consider by the powers to be a resident their either 

 

Working here or not also doesn't matter when it comes to determining if one is a tax resident or not. Not exactly sure what you mean by money required for a visa, there are very different requirements for different visas. Some require zero THB, some 400k THB in a bank account and some require 10M THB. Either way it has also nothing to do with tax residency. Any money you bring into Thailand is by default taxable here unless you take advantage of exceptions. If you are paying tax in Australia then maybe you can offset most taxes but chances are you are in fact liable for taxes in Thailand as you are indeed a resident here. Since you are deriving your income from abroad, there's some good ways to significantly reduce your tax burden in Thailand but you'll have to be very careful in how you do that.

[madmax2]

1 minute ago, eisfeld said:

 

Working here or not also doesn't matter when it comes to determining if one is a tax resident or not. Not exactly sure what you mean by money required for a visa, there are very different requirements for different visas. Some require zero THB, some 400k THB in a bank account and some require 10M THB. Either way it has also nothing to do with tax residency. Any money you bring into Thailand is by default taxable here unless you take advantage of exceptions. If you are paying tax in Australia then maybe you can offset most taxes but chances are you are in fact liable for taxes in Thailand as you are indeed a resident here. Since you are deriving your income from abroad, there's some good ways to significantly reduce your tax burden in Thailand but you'll have to be very careful in how you do that.

What ever you say, you have to earn a income in thailand to pay tax here, i do not earn any income in Thailand, just spend some of my own money here that i have already paid the tax on

Money brought into Thailand is  not taxable only the interest earned on it here is

I use the 800K in a bank account for my visa extension, a lot less hassle than the 400K married to a Thai national visa, its processed by the day after you apply for it

For tax advice i use my qualified accountant, not a Internet forum

[stevenl]

31 minutes ago, madmax2 said:

What ever you say, you have to earn a income in thailand to pay tax here, i do not earn any income in Thailand, just spend some of my own money here that i have already paid the tax on

Money brought into Thailand is  not taxable only the interest earned on it here is

I use the 800K in a bank account for my visa extension, a lot less hassle than the 400K married to a Thai national visa, its processed by the day after you apply for it

For tax advice i use my qualified accountant, not a Internet forum

"What ever you say, you have to earn a income in thailand to pay tax here,"

 

Totally incorrect. In general the Thai government does not collect it, but quite often pensions coming in from abroad are taxable in Thailand.

Edited July 10, 2017 by stevenl

[Hua Sai]

5 hours ago, madmax2 said:

I know that as anyone with money to save or invest does, but its not worth investing in term deposits here for the interest they pay on them,

Better to keep the money freely available to invest elsewhere if the opportunity comes up, and it usually does if you wait 

Even in Australia i am happy with 2% interest on my everyday bank account which i keep my funds in and which i can withdraw funds from or all the money in the account any time i want to 

 

We pay annual tax on our interest on bank accounts in Thailand of 10,500 baht, which is nothing and a donation to the Thai economy as far as i am concerned, just like the tax paid on purchases

I pay a lot more tax on my Aussie bank account and keep most of my money there, the top 4 Aussie banks are in the top 20 safest banks in the world the last time i checked of over 14,000 banks and saving societies world wide

 

No Thai bank is in the top 100 safest banks in the world and the deposits here are only covered by insurance for up to 1M baht, 98% of bank accounts here have less than 1m baht in them the last time i checked so most people are covered by insurance for their bank savings, we are not, but i do not believe there will be any financial problems here with the banks in the foreseeable future, If i did i would return the money to Australia, Where it came from in the first place

 

Any financial advice you think you can give me and i do not know about will be gratefully accepted

We all never stop learning 

 

"the deposits here are only covered by insurance for up to 1M baht"

 

It's actually ฿15 million. And limitless in some banks e.g. GSB 

 

Whether anyone would ever get it is another matter.

[eisfeld]

34 minutes ago, madmax2 said:

What ever you say, you have to earn a income in thailand to pay tax here, i do not earn any income in Thailand, just spend some of my own money here that i have already paid the tax on

Money brought into Thailand is  not taxable only the interest earned on it here is

I use the 800K in a bank account for my visa extension, a lot less hassle than the 400K married to a Thai national visa, its processed by the day after you apply for it

For tax advice i use my qualified accountant, not a Internet forum

You and your "qualified" accountant (if he/she advised you so) seem to have little idea about the tax laws in Thailand.

A good primer regarding this topic is this: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/52286.0.html right from the horses mouth and even in english.

Start with the first chapters about tax residency and assessable income.

 

You can believe me or not but you don't get a choice to not believe the Revenue Department of Thailand :)

[madmax2]

16 minutes ago, Hua Sai said:

"the deposits here are only covered by insurance for up to 1M baht"

 

It's actually ฿15 million. And limitless in some banks e.g. GSB 

 

Whether anyone would ever get it is another matter.

About to be changed to 1M in the near future if not already

[madmax2]

18 minutes ago, stevenl said:

"What ever you say, you have to earn a income in thailand to pay tax here,"

 

Totally incorrect. In general the Thai government does not collect it, but quite often pensions coming in from abroad are taxable in Thailand.

I do not get a pension from abroad or any other type of social security payment which could be taxable here

All the funds i have transferred to Thailand were made by me and have already been taxed in Australia

In australia the same as here i pay tax on the bank interest earned, which is now my only taxable income in both countries.

The Thai government would be better of cracking down on expats who work here and do not declare all the money they have made as taxable income, does that ring a bell with you

[Hua Sai]

11 minutes ago, madmax2 said:

About to be changed to 1M in the near future if not already

 

It is currently ฿15 million.

 

In August 2018 it will drop to ฿10 million. In August 2019 it will drop to  ฿5 million.

 

From August 2020 it will be  ฿1 million.

 

[madmax2]

Let me explain for one last time, i do not have a residential visa in thailand, i stay here on a Non O retirement visa which is not a residents visa which very few people have as they prefer foreigners to be on temporary visa's which you have to renewed annually

, so i am not a Thai resident and cannot be taxed as one 

I earn no income in Thailand and do not have to pay tax on money i have already been taxed on in Australia

The next thing you know someone will claim that the spending money tourists bring into Thailand can be taxed here

[madmax2]

10 minutes ago, Hua Sai said:

It is currently ฿15 million.

 

In August 2018 it will drop to ฿10 million. In August 2019 it will drop to  ฿5 million.

 

From August 2020 it will be  ฿1 million.

 

No worries i knew it was going to drop to 1m but did not know when, and it does not effect me or what i do with my money

Just have to wait for another 3 years before it happens, if it does

[eisfeld]

23 minutes ago, madmax2 said:

Let me explain for one last time, i do not have a residential visa in thailand, i stay here on a Non O retirement visa which is not a residents visa which very few people have as they prefer foreigners to be on temporary visa's which you have to renewed annually

, so i am not a Thai resident and cannot be taxed as one 

I earn no income in Thailand and do not have to pay tax on money i have already been taxed on in Australia

Allow me to explain to you one last time.

 

1. There is nothing like a "residential visa" or "residents visa".

2. You are on a Non-O visa based on retirement which has nothing to do with taxes.

3. To determine if you are a resident in Thailand for tax purposes, the ONLY thing that counts is if you spend at least 180 days in a given year in the country. NOTHING ELSE. Not your visa, not if you are already taxed somewhere else, not your citizenship, not your gender and not the color of your pants. You stay in Thailand for that amount of time, therefor you are a resident as far as the tax law is concerned. If you like it or not.

4. Lot's of people have a "Non-O" visa. You know the full name? Non-Immigrant O-A. The first part means it's a temporary visa, temporary permission of stay, you are not immigrating to Thailand. You neither have permanent residency nor citizenship. *Everything* else is temporary.

5. You can be fully taxed on foreign derived income that you bring into Thailand (unless excempt because of e.g. DTA).

6. I'd really advise you to read the link I posted earlier and educate yourself. Just to avoid running into some ugly issues later on.