Latimer Road fire: Huge fire engulfs west London flats

[zoza]

14 hours ago, Flustered said:

Watching the latest reports form the Fire Brigade they say they have probably identified the flat where the fire started but will not comment any further.

 

The we had a young Muslim girl being allowed to spread hate and fear shouting at the reporter (Victoria Derbyshire) that there were 50 dead babies and 100 dead bodies and that this was a revenge against Muslims and she had it all on her camera phone. Victoria Derbyshire looked baffled and unable to stop this girl spouting hatred 

 

Yes this was a predominantly Muslim occupied tower block and the chances are when the final reports are in it will be a fire due to the use of propane or some other gas/liquid gas cooker that got out of control and not a revenge attack on Muslims of any kind.

i think what was being voiced might of been the  misguided anger that the body count is being underestimated by a massive amount (they are saying 150 with 50 kids on facebook

with a famous singer asking why ? she was told off the record by police  )also it has

been reavealed that an advisor to May has sat on a report warning of this was going

to happen for four years, and even the tenants committee have submitted a report

to the landlords last year that the building was a fire risk.

 

all over the world this cladding is banned on buildings over five floors high but in the richest borough  In the uk it is ok? and now we have May announcing a public enquiry  while

the solicitor for the last high rise killer fire (2009) (I think) is telling every one a public

enquiry is the last thing we want, as it is run and ruled by the government

just look what they are already doing/hiding figures/throwing another "advisor under the bus , May is to scared to face the public , so although I doubt this is a racist attack it

will surely make people very angry and as the tenants appear 90% Arab/Asian and mostly

not well heeled it does appear that the authorities have been criminally negligent.

one grief struck girl shouting is just that. RIP. to all the victims.

 

oh and they reckon the gas pipes that were moved inside the building were never fireproofed

and blue flames were witnessed in the blaze? inside the building

the cause of the extensive fire remains firmly  with what the landlords allowed to be brought

to this building not anything to do with what the tenants done.   

[JamJar]

15 hours ago, In the jungle said:

According to the BBC the cladding was "Reynobond" which can be specified either with a polyurethane core or a fire resistant core.

 

In this case somebody took the decision to go with the cheaper polyurethane core.  

 

It appears to me that the people responsible for the refurb had no real understanding of the principles that protected this building from fire as originally constructed.

 

Personally I don't think 'fire resistant' is good enough when the original exterior was fire proof.

 

 

 

Refer to post #236.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

That's why i posted about 'wet risers' I thought all buildings over 5 storeys had to have them. You know what a wet riser is? Another poster has just told me that they haven't been able to reach the top floors yet. You are right, about the huge story. I'm just wondering, if we will ever get the truth, and/or how much of this will be covered up.I am sure  that Grenfell house was a Bernard Sunley project when it was built. I would be interested to see the fire precaution drawings.

Of course I know what a wet riser is. They just aren't any use if the fire is preventing them going inside to use them, as apparently happened here.

I'm assuming high rise buildings are designed to contain the fire to a single apartment and then the wet risers can be used. By the tv film, it seemed that the entire floors were ablaze.

What was amazing was the film of the stairwell on fire up the entire building.

Someone had better be held accountable for this, and not some scapegoat.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Of course I know what a wet riser is. They just aren't any use if the fire is preventing them going inside to use them, as apparently happened here.

I'm assuming high rise buildings are designed to contain the fire to a single apartment and then the wet risers can be used. By the tv film, it seemed that the entire floors were ablaze.

What was amazing was the film of the stairwell on fire up the entire building.

Someone had better be held accountable for this, and not some scapegoat.

Yes,I did say in an earlier post, that the FB must not have been able to access the risers

O wasn't trying to be a smart arse when I asked you if you knew what a wet riser was

 I wasn't aware that you had building knowledge

 Not everyone does. There is a request for a public enquiry, now I here. The reason why this terrible tragedy happened

 

[ddavidovsky]

The fire department are entirely to blame. They apparently didn't know and didn't check on the flammability of this insane cladding. It's their job to know the dangers and to ensure safety standards are maintained. 

 

I still think there's an element of 'low-rent district, therefore low-level of concern' from the authorities at every level, but I'm waiting to hear an admission from the fire department that they are really the ones who screwed up here.

[oldgit]

6 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Is been established that it wasn't standard Rockwool it was a polystyrene type insulation

Yet Rockwool Rockclad was in the original specification in 2012. This ,according to the specification has "a high level of fire resistance and complies with European fire safety regulations." It appears that the this cheap and nasty polystyrene, and highly flammable' insulation has been included in the meantime. What with the gap between the existing structure and the cladding causing a 'chimney effect' allowing the fire to take hold very quickly and spread rapidly up the building, this was a disastrous and fatal decision. The question now arises, did the main contractor take it on himself to make this decision? Did the consultant or the architect give the green light? Did the local council sanction the change because they were trying to save money?

[Flustered]

5 hours ago, zoza said:

i think what was being voiced might of been the  misguided anger that the body count is being underestimated by a massive amount (they are saying 150 with 50 kids on facebook

with a famous singer asking why ? she was told off the record by police  )also it has

been reavealed that an advisor to May has sat on a report warning of this was going

to happen for four years, and even the tenants committee have submitted a report

to the landlords last year that the building was a fire risk.

 

all over the world this cladding is banned on buildings over five floors high but in the richest borough  In the uk it is ok? and now we have May announcing a public enquiry  while

the solicitor for the last high rise killer fire (2009) (I think) is telling every one a public

enquiry is the last thing we want, as it is run and ruled by the government

just look what they are already doing/hiding figures/throwing another "advisor under the bus , May is to scared to face the public , so although I doubt this is a racist attack it

will surely make people very angry and as the tenants appear 90% Arab/Asian and mostly

not well heeled it does appear that the authorities have been criminally negligent.

one grief struck girl shouting is just that. RIP. to all the victims.

 

oh and they reckon the gas pipes that were moved inside the building were never fireproofed

and blue flames were witnessed in the blaze? inside the building

the cause of the extensive fire remains firmly  with what the landlords allowed to be brought

to this building not anything to do with what the tenants done.   

Just too much speculation and wrong information in your post.

 

"oh and they reckon the gas pipes that were moved inside the building were never fireproofed and blue flames were witnessed in the blaze? inside the building the cause of the extensive fire remains firmly  with what the landlords allowed to be brought to this building not anything to do with what the tenants done." Who is "THEY" and of course you will have blue flames. If the building is on fire, the gas will not have been shut off and many other things cause blue fire. Like many in the interviews, you are jumping to conclusions and blaming people before the full enquiry....Not good.

 

There is no proof yet of what caused the fire to spread so fast or even more important and not being asked, is what caused it.

 

What was factual is that the girl in the interview did not live there, had no friends or relatives staying there and spent the whole time filming it on her phone like some voyeur. It was not just her saying it was a revenge attack, her friends in the background were all nodding in agreement.

 

Funny how people who have nothing to do with the tragedy come out of the woodwork inflaming the situation.

[Black arab]

1 hour ago, ddavidovsky said:

The fire department are entirely to blame. They apparently didn't know and didn't check on the flammability of this insane cladding. It's their job to know the dangers and to ensure safety standards are maintained. 

 

I still think there's an element of 'low-rent district, therefore low-level of concern' from the authorities at every level, but I'm waiting to hear an admission from the fire department that they are really the ones who screwed up here.

Total bs

[JamJar]

3 hours ago, Flustered said:

Just too much speculation and wrong information in your post.

 

"oh and they reckon the gas pipes that were moved inside the building were never fireproofed and blue flames were witnessed in the blaze? inside the building the cause of the extensive fire remains firmly  with what the landlords allowed to be brought to this building not anything to do with what the tenants done." Who is "THEY" and of course you will have blue flames. If the building is on fire, the gas will not have been shut off and many other things cause blue fire. Like many in the interviews, you are jumping to conclusions and blaming people before the full enquiry....Not good.

 

There is no proof yet of what caused the fire to spread so fast or even more important and not being asked, is what caused it.

 

What was factual is that the girl in the interview did not live there, had no friends or relatives staying there and spent the whole time filming it on her phone like some voyeur. It was not just her saying it was a revenge attack, her friends in the background were all nodding in agreement.

 

Funny how people who have nothing to do with the tragedy come out of the woodwork inflaming the situation.

 

 

It is exactly this kind of footage that will act as evidence of how quickly the fire spread.

As to whether she lived there, there are many people who live in the vicinity that have an interest and involvement in the community. 

In your mind, if she didn't live in the block or have "friends or relatives" she should take no interest.

Why not go further and state that no one who didn't live in the block nor have friends or relatives in the block should donate or help in any way?

What a sick point of view you are holding there. 

A voyeur would be hiding in the shadows, not speaking up. 

 

As to the rest of your rant.....the man claims that it was his fridge on the fourth floor was the cause of the fire and he alerted his neighbours to it.

Without the cladding, the fire would have been confined, as in the majority of tower block fires.

 

It is for good reason that the companies who are involved in the debacle are taking down pages that link them to the refurbishment.

 

The irony of your last statement is clearly lost on you. "Funny how people who have nothing to do with the tragedy come out of the woodwork inflaming the situation."

 

Those people likely know a whole lot more about what happens on the ground than you do. Yet here you are....

 

 

[zoza]

4 hours ago, Flustered said:

Quote

 

Just too much speculation and wrong information in your post.

 

"oh and they reckon the gas pipes that were moved inside the building were never fireproofed and blue flames were witnessed in the blaze? inside the building the cause of the extensive fire remains firmly  with what the landlords allowed to be brought to this building not anything to do with what the tenants done." Who is "THEY" and of course you will have blue flames. If the building is on fire, the gas will not have been shut off and many other things cause blue fire. Like many in the interviews, you are jumping to conclusions and blaming people before the full enquiry....Not good.

 

There is no proof yet of what caused the fire to spread so fast or even more important and not being asked, is what caused it.

 

What was factual is that the girl in the interview did not live there, had no friends or relatives staying there and spent the whole time filming it on her phone like some voyeur. It was not just her saying it was a revenge attack, her friends in the background were all nodding in agreement.

 

Funny how people who have nothing to do with the tragedy come out of the woodwork inflaming the situation.

All my information came from Lily Allen on facebook re the manipulation of the dead

figures being released slowly so as to soften the public outcry. 

 

What about the new gas pipes in the central stairwell? Did they exacerbate the blaze?

A local councillor, Judith Blakeman, who sits on the tenant management organisation, raised concerns in March about the National Grid installation of gas risers or pipes in the main stairwell as part of the refurbishment. She was reassured by the landlord that they would be boxed in with “fire-rated” protection, but this does not appear to have been done. The London fire brigade said on Thursday morning they had not been able to put out the flames until they had isolated a ruptured gas main in the block.

 

yes you are correct that there is no "proof" yet that points to the cladding being the reason

the fire spread like it did, but it is banned in America /Canada/ Australia on buildings over

fifty meters high now I wonder why? perhaps the colours are not so good?

and for you to say what started the fire is more important than how it spread so fast is lame. 

the FACT that it SPREAD so fast is what made the LFB job near impossible.

 

your facts about this girl who you said was shouting, did she get interviewed and did she

state where she lived (obviously close) but she did not know any one from that building

but you state she had a lot of nodding friends with her? did they have any body staying

there that this girl knew? where can I get a copy of this filming incident?

I do not know any one who stays in this Tower but I was affected by the things that

I saw and heard. as I imagine most people would be, but you take the attitude of move

along nothing going on here, its nothing to do with you. well it is all of us.  

from the guardian today. .

Construction and fire experts increasingly fear that the cladding system applied to Grenfell Tower may have been instrumental in spreading the fire. The system was installed to improve the thermal efficiency of the building and improve its appearance.

Investigations are also focused on gas pipes in the stairways and lobbies recently installed by National Grid, which residents had complained had not been boxed in with fire retardant material despite assurances they would be.

waiting for your reply.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AGareth2]

very sad that Labour politicians are making political issues out of grief and death

sick!

[KhaoNiaw]

20 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

very sad that Labour politicians are making political issues out of grief and death

sick!

What nonsense. To be honest, it's pretty sick that you have that take on what's going on when people are doing their jobs and actually showing care and concern.  

Edited June 16, 2017 by KhaoNiaw

[AGareth2]

1 minute ago, KhaoNiaw said:

What nonsense. To be honest, it's pretty sick that you have that take on what's going on when people are doing their jobs.  

asking the PM to give answers within 24 hours

?

you are having a laugh

[AGareth2]

3 minutes ago, KhaoNiaw said:

showing care and concern.  

you cannot bring the dead back to life

[AGareth2]

what you can do is reduce the chance of this horror happening again

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Yes,I did say in an earlier post, that the FB must not have been able to access the risers

O wasn't trying to be a smart arse when I asked you if you knew what a wet riser was

 I wasn't aware that you had building knowledge

 Not everyone does. There is a request for a public enquiry, now I here. The reason why this terrible tragedy happened

 

I wasn't taking you for one . Many wouldn't know. I didn't remember you saying about the FB.

Have a nice day; many in the world won't. We are fortunate and we should remember that every day.

[zoza]

.

29 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

very sad that Labour politicians are making political issues out of grief and death

sick!

The chairman of the Kensington and Chelsea Conservative  party is blaming the Tenants

for the lack of sprinklers , saying the collective view was not for these to be fitted.

yes go the Tory way and blame the Dead and survivors. not sick?

[AGareth2]

2 minutes ago, zoza said:

s go the Tory way and blame the Dead and survivors. not sick?

not sure that the Cons are blaming the dead

Where did you read that?

Edited June 16, 2017 by AGareth2

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, Flustered said:

 

 

Funny how people who have nothing to do with the tragedy come out of the woodwork inflaming the situation.

Rubberneckers at every tragedy relishing the horror. Sad reflection on humanity.

It's like people going to races to see the accidents.

[Here It Is]

1 hour ago, zoza said:

All my information came from Lily Allen on facebook re the manipulation of the dead figures being released slowly so as to soften the public outcry. 

Lily Allen as a source of credible evidence?  Blimey.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, zoza said:

All my information came from Lily Allen on facebook re the manipulation of the dead

figures being released slowly so as to soften the public outcry. 

 

What about the new gas pipes in the central stairwell? Did they exacerbate the blaze?

A local councillor, Judith Blakeman, who sits on the tenant management organisation, raised concerns in March about the National Grid installation of gas risers or pipes in the main stairwell as part of the refurbishment. She was reassured by the landlord that they would be boxed in with “fire-rated” protection, but this does not appear to have been done. The London fire brigade said on Thursday morning they had not been able to put out the flames until they had isolated a ruptured gas main in the block.

 

yes you are correct that there is no "proof" yet that points to the cladding being the reason

the fire spread like it did, but it is banned in America /Canada/ Australia on buildings over

fifty meters high now I wonder why? perhaps the colours are not so good?

and for you to say what started the fire is more important than how it spread so fast is lame. 

the FACT that it SPREAD so fast is what made the LFB job near impossible.

 

your facts about this girl who you said was shouting, did she get interviewed and did she

state where she lived (obviously close) but she did not know any one from that building

but you state she had a lot of nodding friends with her? did they have any body staying

there that this girl knew? where can I get a copy of this filming incident?

I do not know any one who stays in this Tower but I was affected by the things that

I saw and heard. as I imagine most people would be, but you take the attitude of move

along nothing going on here, its nothing to do with you. well it is all of us.  

from the guardian today. .

Construction and fire experts increasingly fear that the cladding system applied to Grenfell Tower may have been instrumental in spreading the fire. The system was installed to improve the thermal efficiency of the building and improve its appearance.

Investigations are also focused on gas pipes in the stairways and lobbies recently installed by National Grid, which residents had complained had not been boxed in with fire retardant material despite assurances they would be.

waiting for your reply.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't take him that way. IMO more about rubberneckers getting in the way of emergency services.

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed. 

[thaibeachlovers]

48 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

very sad that Labour politicians are making political issues out of grief and death

sick!

That's what politicians do. Not just on the fire, but they've been going on for ages about the terrorist incidents. I'm sick of them sticking their faces in tv cameras and pontificating about it. I'm also PO with the tv channels encouraging it, for days on end. It's like nothing happened anywhere else in the world.

By all means report on it for a couple of days, and update the situation, but showing the same scenes for day after day after day is verging on the ghoulish, IMO.

[Flustered]

2 hours ago, zoza said:

All my information came from Lily Allen on facebook re the manipulation of the dead

figures being released slowly so as to soften the public outcry. 

 

 

You are joking right?

 

All your information came from Lily Allen on Facebook. How can you be taken seriously with a quote like that.

 

If you want to see the interview I spoke about, look at catchup and the Victoria Derbyshire interview. It's unlikely you would have watched a professional reporter as you get your news from Lily Allen.

 

As I said, no one will know what the cause of the fire was or how it spread so fast until the full inquiry has looked at all of the evidence and spoken to the first hand witnesses (not Lily Allen who was trying to score cheap political points).

 

All of this speculation helps no one especially the grieving families who are being fed a load of false information from people with hidden agendas.

 

Why don't you ask how it started, a far more important question.

[sandrabbit]

On 6/16/2017 at 1:16 AM, Basil B said:

SR Not sure how your reply links to KKD's post?

 

If you think that the fire brigade would stand at the front door call up all the residents is just not practical, modern door entry systems are complicated not just a case of pushing one button one flat another for the next flat and then the next,  you have to punch in 3 or 4 buttons and wait for a reply or it times out before entering the next.  

<deleted> are you on about, do you cherry pick comments to answer to?. if you had been reading this thread from the start you would know how stupid your comment is. so you didn't read the posts I had made?

[sandrabbit]

16 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Is been established that it wasn't standard Rockwool it was a polystyrene type insulation

no that was the facing, I was talking about what was behind after the facing had been burned away.

 

ok, haven't been watching news today but to me the actual insulation looked intact from the vids I was looking at and the fire just bypassed it. let me catch up sorry.

Edited June 16, 2017 by sandrabbit

[roo860]

That's what politicians do. Not just on the fire, but they've been going on for ages about the terrorist incidents. I'm sick of them sticking their faces in tv cameras and pontificating about it. I'm also PO with the tv channels encouraging it, for days on end. It's like nothing happened anywhere else in the world.
By all means report on it for a couple of days, and update the situation, but showing the same scenes for day after day after day is verging on the ghoulish, IMO.

A reporter from the BBC this morning was talking to the cousin of the Syrian man who was the first named fatality. He asked him what he had been studying in the UK, the guy said Civil Engineering, the reporter than asked what he thinks his dead cousin would have said about the cause of the fire!!!!
They are scraping the barrel now for "news".

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Here It Is]

6 minutes ago, roo860 said:

A reporter from the BBC this morning was talking to the cousin of the Syrian man who was the first named fatality. He asked him what he had been studying in the UK, the guy said Civil Engineering, the reporter than asked what he thinks his dead cousin would have said about the cause of the fire!!!!
They are scraping the barrel now for "news".

 

"An unfortunate event, these things happen.  Shame I didn't buy that parachute when I had the chance"?  Jeez.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Here It Is

[Flustered]

Now we have a mob breaking into the town hall causing mayhem.

 

How does this help the families of the dead.

 

Also reported that Lily Allen has been stirring up the mob with her facebook posts and tweets. She admits to politicising the issue to gain attention.

 

<deleted>  has this got to do with Lily Allen. Has she offered her home to the homeless families? You bet your life she hasn't

 

A cheap publicity stunt by a fading singer using the grief and tragedy of others. And to think that some FMs actually quote her as a source of news.

Edited June 17, 2017 by metisdead
Profane acronym removed.

[sandrabbit]

9 hours ago, Flustered said:

Now we have a mob breaking into the town hall causing mayhem.

 

How does this help the families of the dead.

 

Also reported that Lily Allen has been stirring up the mob with her facebook posts and tweets. She admits to politicising the issue to gain attention.

 

<deleted>  has this got to do with Lily Allen. Has she offered her home to the homeless families? You bet your life she hasn't

 

A cheap publicity stunt by a fading singer using the grief and tragedy of others. And to think that some FMs actually quote her as a source of news.

now the law has to do something, arrest her for incitement. 

 

p.s. her father is from my home town  - sigh .......