SikaTop Seal and Red Crocodile Cement

[carlyai]

The pool is now rendered and I did plan to seal it using SikaTop Seal and then to tile it with Kera 4" tiles, and using Red Crocodile cement as the glue for the tiles.

 

The plan was, that the SicaTop Seal would seal the render against water leakage and calcium leakage from the cement.

The Red Crocodile cement is recommended by Kera tiles.

 

Now, on reading the instructions on the Red Crocodile cement, there is a part that says: the render must be clean, free from dirt, etc, etc, but it also says the render must be free from sealers. It's all written in small print.

 

Now there already is additive in the render mix.

 

My question is, has anyone used SikaTop Seal and Red Crocodile cement in their pool, and was it OK?

 

In other words, if I seal the render, then tile it, will the tiles fall off?

 

I have one suggestion already, to lay a small section and leave it for a few days and see what happens.

 

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[sappersrest]

So long as there is a waterproof additive in the mortar mix extra  sealing is not necessary,The tile adhesive possibly will not work.

If says don't use a sealer on the tin then don't.

Your choice of grout is important try  to go down the 2 part epoxy route,no mater how corrosive your water gets it will not effect the grout.

 

If you do try to experiment a couple of days won't be enough.

 

There are certain time spans you must adhere to  between render, tiling ,grouting and filling.

This info is available on the net  via tiling associations of various countries.

Important when filling, fill slowly certainly not more than 750 mm in 24 hour period, 30 mm per hour is best.

 

Chemical leakage from the cement will generally occur only when the water is corrosive.That is why a top quality grout is important as well.

Sulphate resistant cement really should be used in the construction process, the reason it is not used here very much  is because of cost, this is because the slag ash mixed with the cement is imported from Japan.

 

[sappersrest]

 

Curing times for pool tiling

It is important to ensure that the pool tank has completed most of its drying shrinkage before any rigid finish is applied. Clause 7.3.2.1 of BS 5385: Part 4: 2009 recommends that the following minimum time intervals should be allowed to elapse between the successive stages of construction with reinforced concrete pool tanks constructed as water retaining structures.

• Between the curing of the pool shell and rendering or screeding at least 6 weeks.

• Between completion of rendering or screeding and the commencement of tile fixing at

  least 3 weeks.

• After the completion of tile fixing and the commencement of grouting at least 3 days

  should elapse.

• Between completion of the grouting, movement joints and filling of the pool at least 3

  weeks should elapse.
  It is important to note that these minimum time periods are under good drying conditions (20°C and 65% RH) should be considerably extended under cold and damp site conditions. Note than in some countries a 6 month drying period is recommended for concrete. 

 

A useful tip for others try and specify one manufactures system for best results.

though in Thailand it could prove difficult.

 

http://sikaceram.com/en/systems/swimming-pools

 

Both Sika and Ardex are world leaders in pool products and have good customer support.

Edited June 18, 2017 by sappersrest
addition of link

[carlyai]

Thanks for that, but it really doesn't address my particular situation.

The situation is putting on a sealant, then fixing tiles with Red Crocodile cement.






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[carlyai]

@Sappersrest.

 

Sorry, I missed your first post, only saw the first one now. This all makes sense now. Thanks

 

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[carlyai]

@Sappersrest
Enclosed a pic of the grout I will be using.

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[carlyai]

I just looked at the sponsors web site, and a video of how to install pool tiles, shows applying a waterproof membrane, then red crocodile then platinum grout.
Confused.

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[carlyai]

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[carlyai]

The You Tube clip shows installing Kera tiles, but the first part shows coating the pool walls with a sealer/waterproof membrane.

But, in the pic. of the Red Crocodile cement instructions, they say no sealer.
Maybe it's the way I am reading it, or the Thai translation really means that the waterproof membrane/sealer must be cured properly before applying the Red Crocodile cement.



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[carlyai]

As no further replies, I've made an executive decision.
SikaTop Seal, 2 coats first, then Red Crocodile cement as glue, then Platinum Gold grout.
I showed the tiler the video and he agreed.
We should see after a while laying the tiles how they are sticking.
If they fall of.....will just stick them back on again.[emoji38]
That's why DIY is sooo good, it's very flexible.

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[RichCor]

carlyai, I know you want to get it right the first time,   

...but how else are we supposed to learn from your mistakes.

[carlyai]

carlyai, I know you want to get it right the first time,   
...but how else are we supposed to learn from your mistakes.

Yes, and I've made many.

The last one was not acid washing or pressure cleaning the pool walls after removing the metal frames. There was a lot of oil on the frames, and even though we cleaned the walls, pockets of render did not stick. So cut out about 10 spots today, repaired with a secret coat, then rerender tomorrow.
Finish the roof tomorrow.
Thanks for your concern [emoji2]

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[RichCor]

Still looks like an unfinished wine cellar for short people.

How long are we gonna have to wait for this thing to 'cure' before seeing it filled with water (or jello).

Edited June 20, 2017 by RichCor

[grollies]

15 hours ago, carlyai said:

As no further replies, I've made an executive decision.
SikaTop Seal, 2 coats first, then Red Crocodile cement as glue, then Platinum Gold grout.
I showed the tiler the video and he agreed.
We should see after a while laying the tiles how they are sticking.
If they fall of.....will just stick them back on again.
That's why DIY is sooo good, it's very flexible.

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Hey Carl, the executive decision is the way to go IMHO.

 

As long as the Sika Topseal has good adhesion to the render then it should provide good suction for tiles and adhesive.

 

I used Crocodile waterproofing to the render and used Crocodile tile adhesive. The waterproofing literature said that it provided a suitable surface for tile adhesion (as long as one used Crocodile tile adhesive 555).

 

I'm not sure I'd just rely on render additive to provide a waterproof solution.

 

One question: why did you render a poured concrete wall?

[carlyai]

Hi Grollies,

I think it will be OK.
I'd already bought the SikaTop Seal, on a recommendation, and bought 5 bags and bottles of mixture, each time on my trips to Roiet. Put them in the back of the car.
When I ordered the Kera tiles they said to use Crocodile Red and Crocodile Platinum for the glue and grout, and put them all in the same truck from Bankok.
It wasn't until the tiler read the instructions on the Red Crocodile cement pack that caused me to worry.

Why Render?

My first thoughts as well, but was talking to Bob, a long time ago and he mentioned that as hard as you try you can't get the shutterboard 100% correct, and the cement pour causes a small bit of movement in the shutterboard.
Twas the same with me, some of the shutterboard joins were not flush.
Also we did have a couple of blow outs, luckily the main one was outside the pool wall, and the other one was in the steps area.
The vibrator I bought was very powerful, and combined with a too quick pour from the CPAC guy caused the blow outs...shook the metal u bolts on the bottom of the shutterboard lose.
As it was a first time for all of us, we were pretty lucky really.

I wouldn't recommend any novice first timer to use the shutter boards, too many moving parts. I think your way with the 8" blocks is best, even adding another B 45000 to the bill. B 22000 delivery charge made me balk.

Pics of some of the areas we are repairing where the render didn't stick.

And, my aquaponics gear arrived yesterday. Looks great, can just taste the fresh barra. Probably not as flash as your pond.
Now SWMBO is definitely not speaking to me. [emoji38]

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[grollies]

@carlyai gotcha on the render.

 

Aquaponics kit looks cool.

[RichCor]

12 hours ago, carlyai said:

 

I'm jealous.

Most of the hydroponic stuff available up here where I am is way too expensive.

Though some of the neighbors have a knack for using what's around them.