The Boys in Brown

[edd]

This morning 20/6 the boys in brown are at it again.
I was going down Pattaya Clang and turned on RED into 3rd road.
Big sign says
 
TURN ON WAiTING LIGHT
 
On the turn guess what !!
 
Your right
The boys in brown
I explained that there was a sign
He told me, and was confirmed at the police station that the sign means
 
You can not turn left on a red light
 
Once again Thai logic
 
Ho hum. 400B
 
 

[champers]

I see the sign is in red, so I would presume it says you cannot turn left on a red light. If the sign was green, then you could. Am I wrong in what I say?

I don't drive in Pattaya, but crossing a road on foot is a tricky business. Junction of Klang and 2nd Road can be dodgy.

Edited June 20, 2017 by champers

[midas]

But 2 things should give you a clue

1. The arrow is red coloured

2. The fact that most other road users would be waiting at the lights should tell you not to proceed until at least they do first 

[NormanW]

Yeah these signs are so ambiguous and should be removed. Their command of English isn't the best. 

 

They should replace the sign with a simple 'No left turn on red light'. 

 

???

[DMC1]

The sign actually says 'Turn left - waiting light' not 'Turn on - waiting light'

 

Poor English but you should get the gist!

[topt]

48 minutes ago, NormanW said:

Yeah these signs are so ambiguous and should be removed. Their command of English isn't the best. 

 

They should replace the sign with a simple 'No left turn on red light'. 

 

???

Agreed and the sign on the left when turning from 2nd Road into Klang was changed a long time ago but for some reason not this one and others.

 

By the way OP these signs and threads on them have been going for at least 4 years - as I fell foul going the other way that long ago. The fine then was 400 baht - what is it now?

[JSixpack]

Quote

This morning 20/6 the boys in brown are at it again.

 

Doing their job? Yeah, they do that sometimes.

 

Quote

I was going down Pattaya Clang and turned on RED into 3rd road.
Big sign says
 
TURN ON WAiTING LIGHT

 

No, that's not even what it says. This raises the question: did you pass an eye test recently? Farangs have so many problems w/ their vision here in the Land Of Smiles.

 

Quote

I explained that there was a sign

 

That you couldn't read correctly or figure out. It means "Wait for the [green] light before turning left." Obvious, innit?

 

Quote

Once again Thai logic

 

Unclear English, but farang logic should be able to figure out what it means, right?

 

Quote

Ho hum. 400B

 

Lesson learned. Onward & upward with a smile, my man.

 

BTW, lest our farang professional victims find this an excuse to whinge, the BIB apply the rule to Thais as well if it's the rule of the day being enforced. I personally know a Thai who got caught turning left from 3rd onto Klang, same thing, paid B400.

 

Years ago there was no sign on 2nd for the left turn onto Klang, so it was a notorious trap for farangs, as Thais all seemed to know. The rule now is that if there's no such sign then you're free to turn--still, some caution is advised; if in doubt wait for others to turn first, though if in some (mostly rare) cases that's no guarantee either. 

[balo]

I'm happy they fined you. You were breaking the law mate.

[edd]

I'm happy they fined you. You were breaking the law mate.

Wow
I have never come across such a perfect person before.
You must be a bugger to live with.
Me, I make mistakes all the time.
But i enjoy life, what i have left of it.

I'm living on borrowed time.
But I've had a great life and hope for a little more.

[ben2talk]

1 hour ago, balo said:

I'm happy they fined you. You were breaking the law mate.

You're just being a real moron saying this. The road laws here are often ridiculous - like the 60 signs on a bridge near my house, where all traffic and police travel at 120, like the '5000 baht fine/imprisonment' sign at the entrance to the expressway I take on my bike to get home over a bridge, also endorsed by police who wave at me when they see me most days.

 

Don't talk like an idiot (though we understand, living in Pattaya doesn't guarantee intelligence).

 

The truth is that the lights should have separate lights for straight/turn left (generally we have a red arrow pointing left to prevent the left turn).

 

It's a problem coming from - say - England where red means stop. In Thailand, many parts of Bangkok, simple red lights mean you can still filter through in the leftmost lane going straight, or take a left turn. This isn't a law, it's common practice supported by police.

 

You only get caught and fined when they wish to collect money - it has NOTHING to do with law enforcement. There are enough English speakers to actually fix all of these stupid pidgin English signs. They don't want to do it... if they're outside, they want to collect money.

 

[JohnJay]

"Turn left - wait for the light" would make more sense. Maybe they left it obscure to make more money from farangs. Sounds like something from Google translate

[Nice Boyd]

Yeah these signs are so ambiguous and should be removed. Their command of English isn't the best. 
 
They should replace the sign with a simple 'No left turn on red light'. 
 
[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

And lose that scratch...


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Nice Boyd]

Wow
I have never come across such a perfect person before.
You must be a bugger to live with.
Me, I make mistakes all the time.
But i enjoy life, what i have left of it.

I'm living on borrowed time.
But I've had a great life and hope for a little more.

Probably one of those Mall cops, I mean Tourist Police


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[balo]

3 hours ago, ben2talk said:

You only get caught and fined when they wish to collect money - it has NOTHING to do with law enforcement.

If you understand the sign it got everything to do with law enforcement.  "Everyone" who's been driving for a long time in Thailand know they have to stop . Maybe he was a newbie. 

[ben2talk]

If you understand the sign it got everything to do with law enforcement.  "Everyone" who's been driving for a long time in Thailand know they have to stop . Maybe he was a newbie. 

Exactly my point. If they followed a standard for this, and posted standard signs which could be understood by everybody, then we would not issue and they had just put up a small sign so that they could extract money from people around the corner.

Is there actually any kind of problem with people doing a left turn here? Is there any reason that they cannot install a left turn red light?

[bbi1]

"TURN ON WAiTING LIGHT" is the Thai way of saying if you are going to turn left, wait at the lights until it turns green.

 

How long have you been in Thailand? Someone who's only lived here for a year would be able to understand what it means.

[DMC1]

"TURN ON WAiTING LIGHT" is the Thai way of saying if you are going to turn left, wait at the lights until it turns green.
 
How long have you been in Thailand? Someone who's only lived here for a year would be able to understand what it means.

As I posted above the sign doesn't say 'Turn on - waiting light' it says 'Turn left - waiting light', which should be easier to understand, but still could do with a little editing.

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, ben2talk said:

Is there actually any kind of problem with people doing a left turn here?

 

Without waiting? Yes. More jam, more confusion, more accidents at that very busy intersection.

 

Quote

Is there any reason that they cannot install a left turn red light?

 

Is there any reason they should, since the sign's all that's needed?

 

And is there any reason they shouldn't raise your visa fees to help pay for a new light? Our posters always seem to have a big problem w/ that to help pay for their grand schemes.

 

Edited June 21, 2017 by JSixpack

[JSixpack]

12 hours ago, ben2talk said:

The road laws here are often ridiculous

 

Or often not. But that's not really the point.

 

Quote

You only get caught and fined when they wish to collect money - it has NOTHING to do with law enforcement.

 

Actually it does, though obviously it's a means of collecting money as well. I'd say they probably notice a significant number of particular violations and figure they should be discouraged while taking advantage of the opportunity to enhance the revenue stream. Note that they issued tickets. If edd hadn't made the turn, then they couldn't have collected his B400.

 

Quote

There are enough English speakers to actually fix all of these stupid pidgin English signs. They don't want to do it... if they're outside, they want to collect money.

 

No, you see the same lack of clear English and misspellings around on signs everywhere. Japan is notorious for same; in fact as in China there maybe no English at all on a road sign. Thais often think the English is correct or don't wish to lose face by having it corrected. It's a fault, true. Probably no need to trot out classic TVF Colorectal Theory for this simple case.

Edited June 21, 2017 by JSixpack

[gmac]

3 hours ago, ben2talk said:

Exactly my point. If they followed a standard for this, and posted standard signs which could be understood by everybody, then we would not issue and they had just put up a small sign so that they could extract money from people around the corner.

Is there actually any kind of problem with people doing a left turn here? Is there any reason that they cannot install a left turn red light?

I was confused by the number of junctions where originally you were allowed to turn left on a red light that now have this 'Turn Left Waiting Light' edict.  By allowing the left turn traffic flow was improved, by subsequently disallowing it BiB revenue was improved.  Now I'm no longer confused.

[ben2talk]

2 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

Without waiting? Yes. More jam, more confusion, more accidents at that very busy intersection.

 

 

Is there any reason they should, since the sign's all that's needed?

 

And is there any reason they shouldn't raise your visa fees to help pay for a new light? Our posters always seem to have a big problem w/ that to help pay for their grand schemes.

 

We have established that the SIGN is not clear, it is not easily understood, and it is NOT a standard sign recognisable by all people.

 

A red arrow pointing left, or right, or straight means 'STOP' for that specific direction.

Everybody understands this.

 

It is also very clear that Pattaya is by no means short of funds - this could easily be managed - all junctions should use the same lights protocol. One light for each lane/direction, or one light for ALL lanes and no filtering allowed without a specific 'filter' light.

 

If you think that it is not clear, then your intelligence is clearly - and by a very long way - insufficient to indulge in communications in the forum on this subject. You are clearly either an extremely stupid person, or you're simply trolling.

 

Everyone else can see this, why can't you?

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, ben2talk said:

If you think that it is not clear, then your intelligence is clearly - and by a very long way - insufficient to indulge in communications in the forum on this subject. You are clearly either an extremely stupid person, or you're simply trolling.

 

Naturally, one wishes to distract attention from his poor reading ability, poor eyesight, or lack of attentiveness. It's always easy tell when a poster here realizes he's on the losing end of an argument: out comes the personal attacks. I wonder what the average mental age is here? 14? Good thing we have mods.

 

20 hours ago, JSixpack said:

Unclear English

3 hours ago, JSixpack said:

lack of clear English and misspellings

Quote

It is also very clear that Pattaya is by no means short of funds

 

Not at all. You have no budget figures of course. Besides, hadn't you heard that Pattaya's DYING as all the tourists have fled to Cambodia etc.? Just hot air as usual. But you see they don't need a lot of funds to improve the English on a few signs. Which is all that's needed, for those unfortunates who lack the superior farang logic to figure out what the sign must mean or at least to observe drivers in front before making a move. Then again maybe a driver just needs  impetus to realize that Thailand does have laws and that it would behoove you personally to try to follow them even if you disagree with them or have lots of excuses as to why you shouldn't have to. Eventually, one even learns that bleating here is also entirely futile.

 

Edited June 21, 2017 by JSixpack

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, gmac said:

I was confused by the number of junctions where originally you were allowed to turn left on a red light that now have this 'Turn Left Waiting Light' edict.  By allowing the left turn traffic flow was improved, by subsequently disallowing it BiB revenue was improved.  Now I'm no longer confused.

 

Still living in the 80s and 90s eh. Nice place to be. Since then Pattaya has grown far too big and choked w/ traffic to impede the flow w/ random left turners at certain intersections, even though in the middle of the night there's little traffic. 'Course, that's true about stop signs in your own country, eh. It's also good that the turn lane doesn't have to be kept clear for the turners in some cases, so that more can go straight thru when the light changes. Doesn't mean everything's wonderful (our ace TVF Roads & Bridges engineers know what's really needed) but it does help a bit. I've passed by one such sign a few times a week for a couple years now I guess and have never seen any BiB there.

Edited June 21, 2017 by JSixpack

[luk AJ]

Red in Thailand does not always mean "don't" how many U turn signs are red? If U turn not allowed it is the same red plate but with diagonal black line. Normally at a red traffic light you can turn left unless there is a separate arrow on the traffic light which will indicate if you can turn or not. So this sign could be avoided... The thai language on the sign is clear but I agree the english translation could be better explained but at least they do an effort, in many countries there is no english translation at all.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

[ben2talk]

1 hour ago, JSixpack said:

 

Still living in the 80s and 90s eh. Nice place to be. Since then Pattaya has grown far too big and choked w/ traffic to impede the flow w/ random left turners at certain intersections, even though in the middle of the night there's little traffic. 'Course, that's true about stop signs in your own country, eh. It's also good that the turn lane doesn't have to be kept clear for the turners in some cases, so that more can go straight thru when the light changes. Doesn't mean everything's wonderful (our ace TVF Roads & Bridges engineers know what's really needed) but it does help a bit. I've passed by one such sign a few times a week for a couple years now I guess and have never seen any BiB there.

If behaviour is to be changed at a junction, then a very obvious visual overhaul is required to make it MORE than obvious to casual observers. Simply adding a sign in an area that most drivers won't pay attention to (having maybe seen the same sign there for 10 years they're not likely to notice subtle changes).

 

Where they actually WANT people to take notice, they'll put up a nice bright LED sign that flashes and demands attention, so when the light turns red, the LED sign can show (and even flash to attract attention) a green turn left or a red turn left sign.

 

You can purchase similar signs in markets here for about 500 baht. The cost of 1 day stopping cars/bikes and collecting money would be more than enough - and such a sign would mean no more police standing in the road stopping traffic and creating more obstacles to traffic flow.

[JSixpack]

2 hours ago, ben2talk said:

If behaviour is to be changed at a junction, then a very obvious visual overhaul is required to make it MORE than obvious to casual observers. Simply adding a sign in an area that most drivers won't pay attention to (having maybe seen the same sign there for 10 years they're not likely to notice subtle changes).

 

Changing the wording would work just fine. People still pay attention to stop signs, same thing. It's not a subtle change for noobs such as edd. For the experienced, no change is needed, as we know what the sign means and the possible consequences of ignorning it.

 

Quote

Where they actually WANT people to take notice, they'll put up a nice bright LED sign that flashes and demands attention, so when the light turns red, the LED sign can show (and even flash to attract attention) a green turn left or a red turn left sign.

 

Totally unnecessary for the purpose, a needless expense, and maintenance would be required as well in a culture not big on maintenance--hence probably unworkable. And a pretty ridiculous overkill. You see, that left turn ain't life & death even as much as a normal stop sign. It's merely there for a bit of improvement in the flow.  

Edited June 21, 2017 by JSixpack

[gmac]

3 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

Still living in the 80s and 90s eh. Nice place to be. Since then Pattaya has grown far too big and choked w/ traffic to impede the flow w/ random left turners at certain intersections, even though in the middle of the night there's little traffic. 'Course, that's true about stop signs in your own country, eh. It's also good that the turn lane doesn't have to be kept clear for the turners in some cases, so that more can go straight thru when the light changes. Doesn't mean everything's wonderful (our ace TVF Roads & Bridges engineers know what's really needed) but it does help a bit. I've passed by one such sign a few times a week for a couple years now I guess and have never seen any BiB there.

To my mind it would be better still if they did away with the left turn lanes altogether and where there are two more lanes available at a junction make the right hand one a turn right lane and have the opposing lines of traffic run together followed by a short right filter.  I'm convinced this would be far more traffic friendly and efficient than the current system of one direction at a time.  It is the huge wait times caused by this system that encourages the red light jumpers.

[ben2talk]

56 minutes ago, gmac said:

To my mind it would be better still if they did away with the left turn lanes altogether and where there are two more lanes available at a junction make the right hand one a turn right lane and have the opposing lines of traffic run together followed by a short right filter.  I'm convinced this would be far more traffic friendly and efficient than the current system of one direction at a time.  It is the huge wait times caused by this system that encourages the red light jumpers.

This makes a little sense... however, there's often no reason for not allowing left turn filtering - if it's not blocking other traffic entering the same road (or at least filtering into a merge lane so that filtering traffic doesn't block the flow).

 

The ability to operate a 'short right filter' would obviously entail fitting a separate set of 'filter' lights - you're going to upset Sixpack talking like this, he is sure they can't afford it from the paltry sums collected by offenders grabbed in the police operations.

 

At the very least, busy junctions need slightly more sophisticated furniture to enable more advanced control and timing adjustments - just a string with lights over each lane would work fine.

[gmac]

1 hour ago, ben2talk said:

This makes a little sense... however, there's often no reason for not allowing left turn filtering - if it's not blocking other traffic entering the same road (or at least filtering into a merge lane so that filtering traffic doesn't block the flow).

 

The ability to operate a 'short right filter' would obviously entail fitting a separate set of 'filter' lights - you're going to upset Sixpack talking like this, he is sure they can't afford it from the paltry sums collected by offenders grabbed in the police operations.

 

At the very least, busy junctions need slightly more sophisticated furniture to enable more advanced control and timing adjustments - just a string with lights over each lane would work fine.

I agree with the left turn filtering actually it's just that the BiB's appear to have hijacked it for personal gain, there seems to be no logic applied to the junctions where it is not allowed.  

 

I seem to remember from years ago the only junction in Pattaya where it was not allowed, and I don't think there was any marking to that effect, was right outside the police box on the corner of 2nd Road and Klang.  Easy pickings as tourists had no idea they were doing anything wrong.

 

 

 

[champers]

Let's not forget that other road users includes pedestrians who should not be imperilled by someone winging it because they are not sure of the meaning of a traffic sign. If in doubt 

stay put. Too many falangs on bikes and in cars feel they have the freedom to drive recklessly in a way they wouldn't dream of doing in their own countries. Undertaking is a prime example. If Thais have poor driving standards, falangs ought not to be dumbing down to that standard.