Is there only Trichlor Cyanuric Acid enrichted chlorine in Thailand?

[zappalot]

Where ever I look, no matter on which website I only find Trichlor Cyanuric Acid enriched chlorine.

 

With a pH value of three it lowers the pH value in every swimming pool. In addition cyanuric acid is building up. I don't want the one and I don't want the other thing.

 

I want Dichlor or any of the other three available kinds of chlorine. 

 

Don't the other Pool owners have these problems?

 

Or should I buy sodium hypochlorite? It would rise the pH level in the swimming pool. I found 10% 280 L compound for roughly US$320.

And then use it together with Trichlor... Sometimes Trichlor and sometimes sodium hypochlorite.

 

 

[sappersrest]

Whatever you use cynuric acid will be involved at some stage.

If you use liquid chlorine, you will have to add acid. 

If your source water is soft then you should be using calcium hypochlorite and cynuric acid .

There is no one correct one size fits all application without testing your source water.

I would suggest you get a sample of your source water tested.

The forum sponsor I believe does this, and can advise you on the best chemicals to choose,

Without doing this you might as  daw straws.

 

 

[zappalot]

Ok, The ordinary striped test wouldn't do?

[sappersrest]

No

[zappalot]

So this is the answer from one of the forum sponsors:

No word about the problem that cyanuric acid is enriched after a while. After all I studied I think the answer is quite one-sided

Quote

Thank you for your enquiry.
The only type of chlorine that should generally be used in domestic pools is T.C.C.A. 95 stabilized chlorine (Trichloroisocyanuric acid) (C3Cl3N3O3).
It is available as powder, granules, or in slow dissolving tablets. http://swimmingpoolsthailand.com/en/34-chlorine
We market the best available quality in Thailand, PoolChlor, at very competitive prices.

If you are using an industrial scale automated chlorination system, you would be using liquid chlorine (sodium hypochlorite) automatically fed from a tank: http://swimmingpoolsthailand.com/en/266-chlorine-liquid-sodium-hypochlorite-hi-chlor

The performance of the chlorine in your pool depends on the correct pH level which should be between 7.2 and 7.6.
These values can be tested and monitored with a simple test kit for THB 299.00: http://swimmingpoolsthailand.com/en/water-testing/33-test-kit.html
To adjust the chemical balance of your waters pHplus or pHminus depending whether the pH is to low or too high. See: 
http://swimmingpoolsthailand.com/en/-ph-minus/75-ph-minus.html
and
http://swimmingpoolsthailand.com/en/chemicals-complete-list-en/455-ph-plus.html

Please ignore any other advice you may have been given, however well meant.

 

[zappalot]

So the advice to exactly continue using the same chlorine I use right now does not solve my problem. So it seems I have to find a solution by myself.

 

At least I found a supplier and asked for the prices today.

They sell different kind of chlorines...

 

http://paccothai.com/th/document/product_use/about_chlorine.html

[sappersrest]

What exactly are you trying to achieve in simple terms.

[zappalot]

In addition to the chlorine I need to add baking soda and soda ashes regularly, actually every day to keep values in the right range. If I use some chlorine with a higher pH I could reduce to add the extra chemicals, right? Also CA built up in the past, but I want to keep it in the right range as well. So why would I want to add CA enriched chlorine every day if there is enough CA in the pool?

[sappersrest]

22 hours ago, zappalot said:

In addition to the chlorine I need to add baking soda and soda ashes regularly, actually every day to keep values in the right range. If I use some chlorine with a higher pH I could reduce to add the extra chemicals, right? Also CA built up in the past, but I want to keep it in the right range as well. So why would I want to add CA enriched chlorine every day if there is enough CA in the pool?

In addition to the chlorine I need to add baking soda and soda ashes regularly, actually every day to keep values in the right range. This is the norm for pools such as yours, however every day does seem a bit much. the question to ask .

Do you have a leaking top up valve , are you continually diluting the pool.

 

If I use some chlorine with a higher pH I could reduce to add the extra chemicals, right? 

No you would still have to add acid to keep the pH in range, and more than likely you would still have to use baking soda to maintain T/A.

Testing for Alkalinity should be done weekly.

 

Also CA built up in the past, but I want to keep it in the right range as well. So why would I want to add CA enriched chlorine every day if there is enough CA in the pool?

 

If you use stabilized chlorine the only way to to control excess levels of cynic acid is by dilution with fresh water.

 

Again I would ask the question why are you adding chlorine everyday unless the pool is extremely well used.

 

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The following info I have copied from the web and altered it to make for easier reading you may find it of some use.

CHLORINE

The most common chemical used in the treatment of swimming pool water is chlorine. It not only eliminates bacteria and algae by disinfecting (killing) action, it also oxidizes (chemically destroys) other materials such as dirt and chloramines.

When chlorine (in any form) is added to water, a weak acid called Hypochlorous acid is produced. It is this acid, not the chlorine, which gives water its ability to oxidize and disinfect. Proper chlorination and filtration give pool water its clear, sparkling appearance.

Chlorine exists as a solid, a liquid and a gas. The strength of each type is determined by the amount of chlorine within the material that is effective both as a disinfectant and an oxidizer.

1.           Liquid chlorine (sodium hypochlorite) contains 12‐16% available chlorine. (By contrast, household bleach generally contains about 5% available chlorine.)

2.           Solid chlorine (powder or granules)
A. Calcium Hypochlorite ‐ 65‐75% available chlorine.
B. Chlorinated Isocyanurates ‐ varying percentages of available chlorine. ‐ 30‐35% available chlorine.

CHLORINE DEMAND and FREE CHLORINE RESIDUAL

As chlorine is introduced into pool water, a portion is always consumed during the processes of disinfection and oxidation. That portion of available chlorine consumed is referred to as chlorine demand.

The hypochlorous acid left after the chlorine demand has been satisfied is referred to as the free chlorine residual. This is what we read when we test the pool for chlorine. require that the free chlorine residual be at least 1.0 ppm throughout the pool at all times (1.5 ppm if stabilized chlorine is used). It is recommended that a residual of 1.5 ‐ 2.5 be maintained with unstabilized chlorine; 2.0 ‐ 2.5 with stabilized chlorine. (See ʺCyanuric Acidʺ description below.)

pH
pH is a measure of the acidity or basicity of water and directly affects some of the chemical reactions that occur in the swimming pool water. It is measured numerically on a scale from 0 to 14.

Very acidic Neutral Very basic (alkaline) 0- 7 -14

The ability of chlorine to oxidize matter and kill microorganisms is directly affected by pH. As the pH raises this ability is adversely affected. In addition, at a pH over 8.0 scaling (precipitation of mineral components) and cloudy water may result.

As pH falls below 7.0 the acidic condition will cause irritation to the eyes and mucous membranes of swimmers. Low pH (acidic water) can also corrode metal parts of a pool system and damage the plaster finish.

The standard for pH is 7.2‐8.0 (Recommended range 7.2‐7.6).

To lower the pH, (hydrochloric) acid must be added. It is advisable to add the desired amount of acid to a full (plastic) bucket of water before adding to the pool. (Acid introduced directly can stain the pool wall.)

To raise the pH, soda ash (sodium carbonate) must be added.

ALKALINITY

Alkaline (basic) substances are present in all water. Within the 7.2‐7.8 pH range, alkalinity exists as a bicarbonate material. Total alkalinity, as determined with a testing kit, is a measurement of the amount of these substances in parts per million within pools and indicates the waterʹs capacity to withstand changes in pH. The alkaline substances act as buffers, inhibiting changes in pH. Therefore, total alkalinity is a measure of the buffering ability of pool water. The recommended level for swimming pool water is 80‐120 ppm.

When pool water is found to be low in alkalinity (below 80 ppm) it is recommended that this level be increased. This can be accomplished with the addition of baking soda: Sodium bicarbonate.

CYANURIC ACID

The ultraviolet rays of the sun decompose free chlorine. This decomposition can be greatly reduced by ʺstabilizingʺ the chlorine through the addition of cyanuric acid.

The level of cyanuric acid in a pool should be routinely measured with a test kit made for this purpose. The recommended level is 20‐50 ppm; levels over 100 ppm is not to be accepted. As this will diminish the effectiveness of the chlorine.

If levels rise above this point, a portion of the pool water must be removed and fresh water added; there are no other means of diminishing the cyanuric acid in a pool.

The stabilizing effect of cyanuric acid does not increase as the levels increase. Instead the chlorine becomes ʺlocked inʺ at levels over 100 ppm and may not be as effective in killing bacteria and algae. In other words, more is not better.

Often, pools reach excessive levels of cyanuric acid without the pool operatorʹs knowledge. This is because much of the powdered chlorine sold today contains cyanuric acid. If this type of chlorine is used over a long period of time the cyanuric level will become too high. Pool operators should check to see if the chlorine they are using contains cyanuric acid/stabilizer. Powdered chlorine containing cyanuric acid will have one of the following active ingredients:

1. Potassium dichloro‐s‐triazinetrione (potassium dichloroisocyanurate). 2. Sodium dichloro‐s‐triazinetrione (sodium dichloroisocyanurate).
3. Trichloro‐s‐triazinetrione (trichloroisocyanurate).

It has been determined that bacteria in the presence of cyanuric acid are destroyed at a slower rate. Therefore, when a pool has been stabilized the free chlorine residual must be maintained above 1.5‐ ppm minimum to offset this phenomenon.

 

 

 

 

 

[zappalot]

If you use stabilized chlorine the only way to to control excess levels of cynic acid is by dilution with fresh water.

 

That is why I do not want to add more and more stabilized chlorine.

 

 

Again I would ask the question why are you adding chlorine everyday unless the pool is extremely well used.

 

Our pool needs more chlorine then it should, they add about 1.4 kg per day and a lot more before we cleaned the over flow tank.

 

So to keep the chlorine level between 1.5 and 5 chlorine needs to be added every day. 

Right now I do not have the support to do more on the pool. Certainly some algae remained in the joints after our brushing. There is a reason why we need more chlorine then necessary, but our management does not want to know more about this. They give a damn shit on the pool as long as it appears clean... What they can not see can not be there...

[sappersrest]

1.5 TO 5PPM will not get rid of the algae, you will have to use an algaecide as well.

Some basic info that I am sure you may know already.

Firstly black spot algae is extremely difficult to get rid of , it tends to rood itself deep into tile grout unlike green algea

It involves a fair bit of time and effort to get rid of.

Obtain a pool brush with stiff bristles.

Calculate the volume of your pool this ensures that you get the correct amount of chemicals required.

A  good quality algaecide and pool water clarifier, the later is important (polyaluminiumchloride based is best, PAC)

Ensure the chemical level in the pool are as required see labels on bottles very important..

Add algaecide as directed ensuring pool is circulating.

Brush vigorously the areas that are infected, use pool vac to pic up as much debris as you can, but don't worry if  you cant

Run the pool circulation for a full 24 hours to ensure even distribution of algaecide.

Backwash filter

Add pool clarifier to the water run pool circulation for say 4 hours backwash filter, repeat this process  acouple of times.

 

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE ALUM

The use of Alum in drinking and pool water is being scaled back worldwide ,The indications are that it is responsible for early onset of memory loss

The other issue is that it will seriously damage your filters health, combined with other chemicals we use in our pool will form a plaster of paris in the bottom of your filter, blocking  it up.

 

Usually black spot algae  is caused by a combination of poor circulation i.e. dead spots in the pool combined with low levels of FREE Chlorine.

you may have to increase your pool circulation times, and introduce a regime  of using an algaecide regularly or monthly or bi monthly.

The forum sponsor should be able to help you sort out the right chemicals.

 

 

The essential thing is to priorities how you deal with each problem.

The first is the algae.

Get the level of chlorine /pHcorrect.

Ensure you have the correct amount of cynuric then worry about the t/a. All of this will probably take a week or so to achieve.

Once all the parameters are ok then you could look at changing chemicals.

 

I WOULD ADVICE AGAINST THIS STICK TO WHAT IS AVAILABLE AND WORKS WELL.

 

 

[Valentine]

Chlorine works better at a lower pH.

If your total alkalinity is at a good level then pH remains more stable although use of Trichlor does reduce pH & that is why I see so many pools with the grouting leeched out due to acidity & not controlling pH.

If pool owner wants a salt chlorinator I will configure it to produce 4 grams chlorine per day rather than 2 grams (meaning if check chlorine reading under ideal conditions it will show 4 although in reality this does not happen). The reason I do this is because I feel better not to use cyanuric acid & the UVs will not destroy all the chlorine, but there will still be enough residual to treat the pool, thus keeping the pool more natural.