Denied entry at Suvarnabhumi

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, Thaidream said:

If I was age 26 with a university degree- I would not even begin to think about living and working in Thailand. The salary one would receive would never be enough to plan a long term existence for even a single person. As an American you will get no work credit for Social Security and when you reach retirement age you would have no income.

 

The American economy in most areas are looking for workers- wages are high. A person in their 20's should be employed in the US and start saving money.  If your goal is to reunite with a Thai Girl/Wife- visit during vacations until you have the money and Visa to bring her to the Us where she can also work.

 

Don't try and live the dream now unless you are a dollar millionaire. Many have tried and very few have succeeded. Getting old in Thailand without sufficient monies and resources is not what anyone should be doing. Thailand will always be here and if your girl loves you she will wait for you.

As an American, you will be required to pay social-security on your income, regardless of where you earn it, with the exception of a very few nations where you can pay into the other nation's social-security, instead; Thailand not among those.  You also get to pay the full 15+%, since the Thai company will not be paying half.  Failure to pay this tax can result in eventual confiscation of one's passport.  For the young, upcoming social-security "reforms" will probably rob anything paid-in, anyway - or force a wait until ~80 years old to maybe get some back, if one lives to see it.

 

The American business-PR speakers claim to be "looking for workers" - to justify hiring everyone but Americans.  If you are in a STEM field, good luck competing against the H1B-Visa guys  from India and Bangladesh, being imported by the hundreds of thousands, who can be forced to work all-nighters, weekends, etc "for free" to keep their visa long enough to get their family residency.  There are 2x more graduates in STEM than available jobs, yet the corporations claim they cannot find Americans - pure spin and an outright lie, because they prefer indentured-servants to American workers with rights.  As in other fields where foreign-workers are now used in abundance, the wages crash for everyone; all that is needed is a sufficient over-supply of people willing to be exploited for peanuts. 

 

Of course, one must be prudent about money and future-planning, while simultaneously not destroying the reason for bothering to build that future (the things that really matter).  I would agree that working for a Thai company is not a long-term way to save money.  It should be something you do while making plans for the future.  The future is getting a business of your own happening.   Singapore, Japan, Online-business - who knows? 

Working in Thailand also has the benefit of allowing you to get into the Thai health-system, which is actually affordable, unlike the rip-off US health-system, which can steal everything you worked and saved for all your life due to one illness - even if you are insured.  Most medical-bankruptcies in the USA involve people who had health-insurance, so getting into the Thai system is a good long-term move.  You can continue to pay the very-affordable premiums even after the job ends - and can use it plus additional-cash if you want to use private hospitals.

 

If you like living in Thailand, find a way to live in Thailand.  If you love your girl, do not risk spend the rest of your life asking "what if" about her.   Money is something you can count and plan.  Love is something that, if you don't find out if it will work or not, will always haunt you in the future.  Regret sucks.  If it doesn't work out, you will know why, and can move on in peace with yourself (as can she).

Edited June 26, 2017 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

Tell them your passport was in your jeans pocket when they went to the wash, maybe twice, that's good enough for a new passport with 52 pages.........they may ask it be returned with the application maybe not, they didn't even want to see mine as I had a certified copy of it. Your old passport will be cancelled and you will be mailed a new one.  Takes a couple weeks I am told, mine was a very quick turn around as I applied in the US Embassy in Bangkok, paid for DHL mailing and picked it up at the consulate 10 days later.  My old one had about 8 months left on it but I explained most countries needed at last 6 months validity and I needed one now.  Guy next to me had his wrinkled illegible pspt in his hand - said it wound up in the wash. 

Speak, Read & Write Thai...........??  Damn, wish I had those skills, spoken street Thai is about what I can handle at the moment, but I'm working on it.

You can apply for a new US-Passport any time you want - no need to make up stories - in fact it could be detrimental, if anything.  Be sure to use your existing passport to get the new one, as you do not want to be listed as someone who "loses" passports - as they are sometimes sold into the black-market. 

 

It's ~2 weeks for replacement if you are NOT in the USA - but longer if you are.  Those out-of-country get priority.  One more reason to get a new passport while over here, unless back in the USA for awhile, anyway.

[vaultdweller0013]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

As an American, you will be required to pay social-security on your income, regardless of where you earn it, with the exception of a very few nations where you can pay into the other nation's social-security, instead; Thailand not among those.  You also get to pay the full 15+%, since the Thai company will not be paying half.  Failure to pay this tax can result in eventual confiscation of one's passport.  For the young, upcoming social-security "reforms" will probably rob anything paid-in, anyway - or force a wait until ~80 years old to maybe get some back, if one lives to see it.

 

This is wrong. You do not pay into US Social Security if you are an employee of a company overseas. You only pay in (and at the 15% rate) if you are self employed, similar to being self employed in the US.

 

[hawker9000]

13 hours ago, sghanchey said:

I believe that all new U.S. passports have 52 pages, no longer short, 28 pagers. You can actually get a second passport, but you need a letter from your employer stating why a 2nd one is required, and issuance is not guaranteed. 

As of the most recent information I could find, you can still choose between a 28-page or a 52-page US passport.  There is no difference in cost, and if I had to guess I'd think almost everyone gets the 52-page except maybe a few who are planning what they expect to be the one & only foreign trip of their lives.  It's not longer possible to get additional pages added to an existing passport.

Edited June 26, 2017 by hawker9000

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, vaultdweller0013 said:

This is wrong. You do not pay into US Social Security if you are an employee of a company overseas. You only pay in (and at the 15% rate) if you are self employed, similar to being self employed in the US.

From what I have read, only those working in nations with "Totalization Agreeements" can avoid this particular tax on all worldwide income (one does not exist with Thailand).  But I would be delighted to be absolutely wrong on this, as moving my business offshore would be far less cost/yr than what I have to pay the IRS on this tax.  But when researching this in the past, the general consensus has been, "If you are an American, forgetaboutit," no way out.  And when I have questioned others as to how they arrived at your conclusion, I did not get a response which was actionable.  The info I have found, so far, tends to follow this ...

 

"In addition to the US requirement of all citizens to consistently pay Social Security taxes, a number of countries also mandate that their equivalent of the Social Security tax be paid by residents of their country (whether or not they’re citizens) in case benefits need to be drawn by the individual while residing in the host country.

 

"Not every US expat will be subject to dual taxation; there are not much more than 20 countries with which the United States has an active agreement whose terms mandate the country to which social insurance taxes will be paid. This type of agreement is referred to as a Totalization Agreement, and they’re only active in a relatively small portion of the world; so there are numerous US expats who are still required to pay into 2 country’s social insurance systems simultaneously."

If you have info which contradicts this, so would allow me to avoid the SS-tax legally, I would very much like to know how to go about it.

[Momofarang]

23 hours ago, Thaidream said:

If I was age 26 with a university degree- I would not even begin to think about living and working in Thailand. The salary one would receive would never be enough to plan a long term existence for even a single person. As an American you will get no work credit for Social Security and when you reach retirement age you would have no income.

 

The American economy in most areas are looking for workers- wages are high. A person in their 20's should be employed in the US and start saving money.  If your goal is to reunite with a Thai Girl/Wife- visit during vacations until you have the money and Visa to bring her to the Us where she can also work.

 

Don't try and live the dream now unless you are a dollar millionaire. Many have tried and very few have succeeded. Getting old in Thailand without sufficient monies and resources is not what anyone should be doing. Thailand will always be here and if your girl loves you she will wait for you.

At 26, it can be beneficial for one's future to work a few years in a country like Thailand. However, I am retired here and have two young girls; my assessment of the situation is that there can't be any future here. We must plan (nationality, mone! school) to resettle them to Oz or Europe, once they grow up...

[vaultdweller0013]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

From what I have read, only those working in nations with "Totalization Agreeements" can avoid this particular tax on all worldwide income (one does not exist with Thailand).  But I would be delighted to be absolutely wrong on this, as moving my business offshore would be far less cost/yr than what I have to pay the IRS on this tax.  But when researching this in the past, the general consensus has been, "If you are an American, forgetaboutit," no way out.  And when I have questioned others as to how they arrived at your conclusion, I did not get a response which was actionable.  The info I have found, so far, tends to follow this ...

 

"In addition to the US requirement of all citizens to consistently pay Social Security taxes, a number of countries also mandate that their equivalent of the Social Security tax be paid by residents of their country (whether or not they’re citizens) in case benefits need to be drawn by the individual while residing in the host country.

 

"Not every US expat will be subject to dual taxation; there are not much more than 20 countries with which the United States has an active agreement whose terms mandate the country to which social insurance taxes will be paid. This type of agreement is referred to as a Totalization Agreement, and they’re only active in a relatively small portion of the world; so there are numerous US expats who are still required to pay into 2 country’s social insurance systems simultaneously."

If you have info which contradicts this, so would allow me to avoid the SS-tax legally, I would very much like to know how to go about it.

Seriously?! Google: us social security tax on foreign income

 

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/social-security-tax-consequences-of-working-abroad

 

Basically, you would need to setup a corporation (can't be a partnership or trust) in a country that does not have a Totalization Agreement and draw a salary from there. Personally, I work for a subsidiary of a (publicly traded) US company that is incorporated in Thailand, so no SS/Medicare tax for me. Note that the "foreign affiliate" case requires a voluntary agreement between the company and the US government. This would be used in a case where a company wanted to offer the "benefit" of still paying into SS/Medicare to expats, which could make sense if the expat assignment is to be temporary and the person basically wants to have their entire working career in the US to maximize their SS benefit.

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, vaultdweller0013 said:

Seriously?! Google: us social security tax on foreign income

 

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/social-security-tax-consequences-of-working-abroad

 

Basically, you would need to setup a corporation (can't be a partnership or trust) in a country that does not have a Totalization Agreement and draw a salary from there. Personally, I work for a subsidiary of a (publicly traded) US company that is incorporated in Thailand, so no SS/Medicare tax for me. Note that the "foreign affiliate" case requires a voluntary agreement between the company and the US government. This would be used in a case where a company wanted to offer the "benefit" of still paying into SS/Medicare to expats, which could make sense if the expat assignment is to be temporary and the person basically wants to have their entire working career in the US to maximize their SS benefit.

 

Thank you for the reply.  I had read that link, but also read many other IRS links which implied otherwise - including the details on "totalization" and countless articles over days of research over years also implying that a totalization-treaty was the only way to avoid/offset the tax.   I am glad to hear of a case (yours) where a person can say 1st-hand that they are NOT required to pay this tax.

[QuantumMech]

9 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

As of the most recent information I could find, you can still choose between a 28-page or a 52-page US passport.  There is no difference in cost, and if I had to guess I'd think almost everyone gets the 52-page except maybe a few who are planning what they expect to be the one & only foreign trip of their lives.  It's not longer possible to get additional pages added to an existing passport.

Eh, while I'm not a frequent traveler, neither am I someone who only expects to go on one or two foreign trips—I've never come anywhere near filling a 28-page passport. The 28-page passport has 17 pages for visas/stamps. If you stick to visa-free entries (and Americans can get into a lot of countries visa-free), the stamps I've seen are pretty small and I think you could comfortably fit of 6 them on a page; 8 if they're carefully positioned (like they seem to do when entering/exiting the Schengen area). With a conservative 3 entries and 3 exits per page, that's over 50 entries. I think 5 per year is much more than the average tourist needs. Personally, I visit a foreign country only once or twice a year, and have only needed full-page visas twice (Cambodia and Russia), so have plenty of blank pages in all of my old passports. I know a lot of people on this forum are filling their passports with Thai TR visas, but that's not the common case :)

 

The 52-page passport is a bit bulky, so I'm happy to stick with the smaller one. FWIW, supposedly all passports issued to people outside the US will be 52-page, whereas if you apply from within the US, you can choose: https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/news/visa-pages-no-longer-issued.html

[Essecola]

12 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

As of the most recent information I could find, you can still choose between a 28-page or a 52-page US passport.  There is no difference in cost, and if I had to guess I'd think almost everyone gets the 52-page except maybe a few who are planning what they expect to be the one & only foreign trip of their lives.  It's not longer possible to get additional pages added to an existing passport.

Anyone renewing their US passport abroad gets a 52 page book now. You can't get a 28 page book overseas. Am 100% sure of this info as it was posted on the wall last time I renewed my passport. This rule has been in place for more than 18 months too. You can only get a 28 page book in the US itself.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Essecola

[HooHaa]

On 6/25/2017 at 10:52 AM, Jip99 said:

 

 

Agree, a sharp lesson has been learned. Without wishing to kick the guy when he is down, it is incumbent upon him to know the rules.

 

Insufficient cash and a one-way ticket into Thailand is not a smart move.

i have been flying in and out of Thailand for years and currently do it once monthly, while i usually have a few thousand bucks with me in cash when i travel anywhere i have never been asked to show either funds or outbound ticket.

 

the rules are obviously selectively  enforced.

[thaitero]

6 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

i have been flying in and out of Thailand for years and currently do it once monthly, while i usually have a few thousand bucks with me in cash when i travel anywhere i have never been asked to show either funds or outbound ticket.

 

the rules are obviously selectively  enforced.

Maby business class always ?

That could be one criteria ?

[JackThompson]

18 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

i have been flying in and out of Thailand for years and currently do it once monthly, while i usually have a few thousand bucks with me in cash when i travel anywhere i have never been asked to show either funds or outbound ticket.

 

the rules are obviously selectively  enforced.

Once monthly using what kind of visa or exempt entry?  APEC, maybe?

[perthperson]

"while i usually have a few thousand bucks with me in cash when i travel anywhere" 

 

That would require a suitcase or a very large wallet. You should keep Quite about these $1000's you claim to travel with. 

[Goldbear]

I've also flown many times into Thailand on visa exempt entries have never been asked for money or proof of an onward ticket, though I always write in my departure flight information on the tourist card. I've never flown business class to Thailand.

 

I now have an O-A visa now but I have only had it since November. 

[perthperson]

9 minutes ago, Goldbear said:

I've also flown many times into Thailand on visa exempt entries have never been asked for money or proof of an onward ticket, though I always write in my departure flight information on the tourist card. I've never flown business class to Thailand.

 

I now have an O-A visa now but I have only had it since November. 

As have I but it would seem the Thais have gradually tightened the screw in an attempt to prevent the serial abusers of visa exempt entries, tourist visas and Ed visas. ........... Those who now complain are likely those who have abused the Thais hospitality. 

[HooHaa]

41 minutes ago, perthperson said:

"while i usually have a few thousand bucks with me in cash when i travel anywhere" 

 

That would require a suitcase or a very large wallet. You should keep Quite about these $1000's you claim to travel with. 

a stack of usd hundreds is about 1.5 centimeters in height.

 

[perthperson]

Just now, HooHaa said:

a stack of usd hundreds is about 1.5 centimeters in height.

 

I am sure everyone is delighted with this information which means nothing. 

 

What constitutes a "stack" ?  

[HooHaa]

4 minutes ago, perthperson said:

I am sure everyone is delighted with this information which means nothing. 

 

What constitutes a "stack" ?  

while i understand you are being  purposely obtuse,  i will respond. 1000 usd dollars in hundreds is 10 bills, no large wallet need apply.

a 1000 dollar stack is slightly more than a centimeter in height. doesn't take up a whole lot of room. 

[perthperson]

Just now, HooHaa said:

while i understand you are being  purposely obtuse,  i will respond. 1000 usd dollars in hundreds is 10 bills, no large wallet need apply.

a 1000 dollar stack is slightly more than a centimeter in height. doesn't take up a whole lot of room. 

Yet more useless and irrelevant information from you. Give it a rest .. I for one am not interested. 

[HooHaa]

4 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Yet more useless and irrelevant information from you. Give it a rest .. I for one am not interested. 

yet you have responded twice with questions, how could i have misunderstood?

 

it seems you are sending mixed signals. 

[Matt199]

This thread is going bit off-topic so perhaps I can squeeze a question:

 

If I have a new SETV + 20k can I still be denied entry to the country (airport or land) ? 

 

I never have return ticket or hotel bookings (something for which I was asked last time at Suva airport and was stressed I'm not going to get in - not sure if it was to scare me off, or the threat was real)

[perthperson]

9 minutes ago, Matt199 said:

This thread is going bit off-topic so perhaps I can squeeze a question:

 

If I have a new SETV + 20k can I still be denied entry to the country (airport or land) ? 

 

I never have return ticket or hotel bookings (something for which I was asked last time at Suva airport and was stressed I'm not going to get in - not sure if it was to scare me off, or the threat was real)

I would imagine it depends entirely on your past visa history. If you have already been identified and warned I doubt anyone can offer any guarantee of assured entry to the country. 

[Matt199]

16 minutes ago, perthperson said:

I would imagine it depends entirely on your past visa history. If you have already been identified and warned I doubt anyone can offer any guarantee of assured entry to the country. 

I was warned unofficially. I doubt the officer put any mark on me in any sort of system they have. Maybe he had a bad day or needed to reach his KPI for denied entries. Not sure. 

 

Up to that point I felt invulnerable because of SETV which is issued by Thai government anyway. I was more thinking along the lines of -how can someone question granting of a visa by Thai government ?

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, HooHaa said:

a 1000 dollar stack is slightly more than a centimeter in height. doesn't take up a whole lot of room. 

I think you are mixing up your centimeters and millimeters. A centimeter wedge in your wallet would be very significant, but that would be nearer $10,000 in hundreds than $1,000. (Each $100 bill is .0043 inches = .0109 cm.)

[perthperson]

7 minutes ago, Matt199 said:

I was warned unofficially. I doubt the officer put any mark on me in any sort of system they have. Maybe he had a bad day or needed to reach his KPI for denied entries. Not sure. 

 

Up to that point I felt invulnerable because of SETV which is issued by Thai government anyway. I was more thinking along the lines of -how can someone question granting of a visa by Thai government ?

A visa granted by any country does not guarantee entry. The Immigration Officers make the decision as to whether a person is allowed to enter and for how long. 

[HooHaa]

11 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I think you are mixing up your centimeters and millimeters. A centimeter wedge in your wallet would be very significant, but that would be nearer $10,000 in hundreds than $1,000. (Each $100 bill is .0043 inches = .0109 cm.)

was a typo, 10 k is a substantial stack, but someone was questioning my ability to carry a thousand in hundreds, which does not occupy space at all.

 

it is however irrelevant, i should not have engaged such a foolish response. 

[JackThompson]

16 minutes ago, perthperson said:

A visa granted by any country does not guarantee entry. The Immigration Officers make the decision as to whether a person is allowed to enter and for how long. 

Yes, it used to be, if you were a criminal / banned / etc you might get stopped - as it should be. 

But now, even if you follow the rules that the Authorities themselves created, you may get told a pack of lies about rules that do not exist, and threatened with not getting in - at airports and Poipet.  Note that by "rules" I refer to actual laws and published ministerial orders (which were not countermanded by subsequent ministerial orders). 

 

2 hours ago, Goldbear said:

I've also flown many times into Thailand on visa exempt entries have never been asked for money or proof of an onward ticket, though I always write in my departure flight information on the tourist card. I've never flown business class to Thailand.

They seem to have added a "new" warning recently - currently only in use at Poipet and Airports (that we know of) - whereby those arriving With a Valid Tourist Visa, may be questioned and threatened with denial of entry,  if they have ever stayed here for an extended period - even if that period was 7+ months ago (per a case reported last week),

 

The good news is, so far, no one with a Tourist Visa + 20K Baht + proof of where they will be staying in Thailand has been denied entry, that we know of.

[manarak]

This is Thailand.

Officials have been known to make up rules as needed on the go in order to be able to extract baht.

[electric]

Some posters seem quite knowledgeable, and certain in their opinions, about what info the Immi Officer at Suvarnabhumi actually sees, or doesn't see, on his computer screen.

 

Maybe a silly question, but how do you know this stuff ? I've only ever seen the back of his computer where all the cables plug in.