Quiting my job questions

[Deixis]

Hello people of the forum.

So here s the thing. I have managed to complete one full year at a VERY BAD school. I know, nothing surprising here and I won't even get into the  details of why it is a bad school. Use your experience and imagination, think of all the reasons that would make a school bad, multiply them to fifty and presto! That should be my school. Anyways, I' ve been looking for another job for  a while and I was recently contacted by another International school which looks and feels much better.

 I've signed a two year contract with the bad school and they require three months notice in case anyone dares to break their contracts, or else.... Obviously I am not going to give  three months notice, I probably won' t give any notice, in other words, in all likelihood I'll  do a runner. Yes. Question is what can my school do to sabotage me, if anything at all, and  knowing that they are evil, unprofessional and have zero work ethic? I know, doing a runner doesn' t exactly demonstrate professionalism and work ethic from my side but hey, everybody hates working there, they have ridiculously high turn over, no respect for their teachers, over 100 lawsuits to deal with and the list goes on and I just want out of it. Going to work everyday makes me sick, as in physically sick, so sorry no remorse. I was thinking of leaving the country, so my visa will be automatically cancelled, re enter and start the process from scratch. Any experiences, feedback advice welcome.

 

 

[tonray]

Are you on an extension to stay for employment or still on a valid 90 day Non-B Visa ?

 

If on a Visa, you can exit without repercussions (Visa wise), legal wise your on your own. If you are on an extension, and you leave the country, it too will be canceled but it is likely immigration will not issue an extension for your new school until you get a letter cancelling employment from your old school signed by the director.

 

In the past few years, IOs have become sticklers for that termination letter.

[Deixis]

Hey thanks for the reply tonray. I m on a 90 day non B . I was thinking of leaving the country and re entering on a tourist visa. I am not worried too much about the visa, I am mostly worried about my work permit. Will it be automatically canceled when my visa is canceled? Do I need to "manually" cancel it? Can I do it by myself? Do I need a letter from my current employer? A good lawyer would solve all these issues but I don' t really know how to go about finding one and I d rather keep things simple and drastic.

[ozmeldo]

You will need to exit via an airport. Further, you'll also need to cancel your own wp. While you will void your visa on exit, there may very well be issues at immigration upon return. I'd recommend you exit with paperwork to obtain a nonb rather than re.entering then working on a tr and then still needing to convert. 

 

Finally, I presume being at Intl school you have a license. If not, the TCT will come into play and you will not recv a new wp without a fresh waiver.

 

Tons of shitty 'intl' schools out there as well. Good luck.

[tonray]

3 hours ago, Deixis said:

Hey thanks for the reply tonray. I m on a 90 day non B . I was thinking of leaving the country and re entering on a tourist visa. I am not worried too much about the visa, I am mostly worried about my work permit. Will it be automatically canceled when my visa is canceled? Do I need to "manually" cancel it? Can I do it by myself? Do I need a letter from my current employer? A good lawyer would solve all these issues but I don' t really know how to go about finding one and I d rather keep things simple and drastic.

 

As long as you have only a Non-B you can exit without a letter. You can go to the Ministry of Labor and cancel your permit, takes less than 20 minutes. If you don't may cause issues when applying for your next WP.

[VocalNeal]

From memory having left a job before you go to the labour dept and cancel YOUR work permit. But your visa is "attached' to your work permit so once the permit is cancelled I believe you have to leave the country within 1 week, could be a little longer but you have to leave.

 

NB. It is very common for Thais not to give notice. They simply don't show up for work. If you are absent for three days without permission your employer may terminate on that basis.

Edited July 14, 2017 by VocalNeal

[ozmeldo]

Yes, as  I recall you should cancel the wp before leaving - but as stated, I believe this cancels your visa immediately. I've heard you get a week to get out as well but I think I've heard you become overstay from the second it's cancelled in reality. I'd go to visa section and ask UbonJoe. You'd really want to fly to the out. 

 

Then there is the question whether Immigration will require a letter to issue you a new visa. Maybe just bc you jumped the border and nulled your visa won't fly with them. Presume this is also CW not say, Nonthaburi.

 

I'm absolutely, positively certain that if you cross by land you will need a letter from your school. Been like that for years now. All land borders in North, you might try Sadao but that's a crapshoot. It's not a given you won't be questioned when exiting airport either.

 

Letting them fire you is a novel, ballsy approach. Call in sick for a week and show with no note. If you're not fired, do it again. Trouble is if you've no replacement, they might keep you until you can be replaced no matter which complicates your end.

 

I feel for the kids but if you're done, you're done. I've been there and both terminated without notice (after the farang director pissed me off to no end, guess who...) and stuck it through. Sticking it out was worth it only bc I'd had such a good relationship with my kids. In hindsight, I should have left that bs job and that bs agency. I'm still burned out from that job, it took a piece of my soul and every shitty person at that school was happy I was doing the work they should have been doing.

 

Why the fkuc would you sign a contract with 90 days? That's a signal right there unless you're at a top flight school and judging by your initial post, doubtful.

 

[puchooay]

6 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

Yes, as  I recall you should cancel the wp before leaving - but as stated, I believe this cancels your visa immediately. I've heard you get a week to get out as well but I think I've heard you become overstay from the second it's cancelled in reality. I'd go to visa section and ask UbonJoe. You'd really want to fly to the out. 

 

Then there is the question whether Immigration will require a letter to issue you a new visa. Maybe just bc you jumped the border and nulled your visa won't fly with them. Presume this is also CW not say, Nonthaburi.

 

I'm absolutely, positively certain that if you cross by land you will need a letter from your school. Been like that for years now. All land borders in North, you might try Sadao but that's a crapshoot. It's not a given you won't be questioned when exiting airport either.

 

Letting them fire you is a novel, ballsy approach. Call in sick for a week and show with no note. If you're not fired, do it again. Trouble is if you've no replacement, they might keep you until you can be replaced no matter which complicates your end.

 

I feel for the kids but if you're done, you're done. I've been there and both terminated without notice (after the farang director pissed me off to no end, guess who...) and stuck it through. Sticking it out was worth it only bc I'd had such a good relationship with my kids. In hindsight, I should have left that bs job and that bs agency. I'm still burned out from that job, it took a piece of my soul and every shitty person at that school was happy I was doing the work they should have been doing.

 

Why the fkuc would you sign a contract with 90 days? That's a signal right there unless you're at a top flight school and judging by your initial post, doubtful.

 

Visas do not get cancelled. Only extention of stays. There is no 1 week grace period. You must leave the day you cancel your work permit. 

 

The OP has already stated he is on a Non B 90 day visa so no problem in this case. The OP can stay until his visa expires. 

[1SteveC]

Deixis

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ID: 23  Posted June 6, 2016 · Report post

Thank you all for your feedback and insights. They've been very helpful. The school is willing to revise and modify the funny bits in my contract. So far so good. As it seems I am going to Thailand after all. I know that the experience is going to be at least interesting. Hopefully, I won't come back to this forum whining about my school. If I do feel free to troll me.

[1SteveC]

You were given advice that the school sounded "dodgy", but the money was more important to you. Now you decide to leave the school in the lurch because of your decision to accept the job.

 

You stated before that the school had been very accommodating to your wishes, (starting 2 weeks late etc.), and that they had modified your contract - yet you still want to set a bad example by doing a runner !

 

 

[tonray]

Just a clarification, when you cancel your work permit you should leave the country immediately but it is unclear whether that cancellation cancels a permission to stay based upon a Non-B vs an extension which it definitely terminates. In any event, there is no communication between the Ministry of Labor and Immigration so Immigration does not get notified immediately upon cancellation, so if you were to wait (just not too long) and exit a few days or a week later you likely will not have any issues. But  cancel if you do want a new WP later.

 

Oh and just a bit of advice from an old hand:

 

Most schools in Thailand suck, teaching here sucks and the grass is usually NOT greener. I would advise toughing it out for the term you signed for, will make you a better person and you will find anyway that your new school is likely the same or worse than your old school.

Edited July 15, 2017 by tonray

[Deixis]

Thank you for your helpful feedback and your time everybody. I won't be teaching anybody until the end of August, it s just office hours and preparation so I' m not too worried about the students. My new school is willing to assist and give me a letter of employment to apply for another business visa. I won' t use a land border. I 'll fly out for a while apply for a new business visa and come back. And I decided not to do a runner. It s just not me. I will  announce that I m quitting and ask to have my work permit cancelled. Unfortunately, they don't fire people at my school. Other teachers tried to pull this trick but it just doesn' t work..

Maybe I got the technicalities wrong. I have a nob B visa valid until November but have to report to immigration  every ninety days, so I am not sure if this is called an extension.  I am on a waiver visa because I don t have a PGCE or a degree in Education. I have a degree in Linguistics and the full DELTA. I used to teach exclusively EAP and Cambridge exams before moving to Thailand.

Hey Steve, I appreciate your opinion but I am sorry to say that you don t have all the facts. It' s been a year and in this year at this job and every week there's something new. You have every right to judge of course, I do it too with other  people especially online and anonymously, just always keep an open mind. Good job with your detective skills by the way

[tonray]

How did you acquire your 'Visa", it sounds like an extension if you need to do 90 day reports. If that is the case then you definitely should get a cancellation letter from school or risk problems exiting at land border and problems with future extensions (I know because even after completing 2 terms and school year over, tried to leave a few weeks before extension expired and next term had to get letters from old and new school before they would approve new extension)

[Rhys]

Well, you resolved it... Regarding the RETURN to Thailand after leaving, resigning (letter to the dude who hired me, letter to the personnel officers who took care of my WP,)  with one week to go on the contract. Leaving was fine, used the plane, when I returned the immigration officer just asked to make sure the school knew I left.  That was it.

 

To stay or not to stay...always tough....it really is your call.  Staying for the sake of finishing out, obviously is best. However, deep down, many may not or may agree that your happiness and well-being were more important.   You stated the school treated you with X constantly,  really do you need to stay for that?   

 

Just make sure you do your paper work... and Move on.... experience, good, bad, and ugly.

 

 

[ozmeldo]

Its all been said and done but just to reiterate, you will be fine on a visa until it expires but if you are on an extension, that effectively is void the moment you terminate your wp you are overstay.

 

You do not need cancel a visa, nor should you. Leaving country on single B will cancel.

 

Finally, I would absolutely recommend getting a letter of release from your school to avoid issues with Immigration. Without it, you very well could have problems. A revised contract might suffice, but maybe not. It is very odd the school modifying a contract. Ive never heard of such a thing, especially after the fact.

 

Would be nice if you gave us the general vicinity of this "international school" so many schools using the term these days even though standards come nowhere close. 

Edited July 16, 2017 by ozmeldo

[1SteveC]

47 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

You do not need cancel a visa, nor should you. Leaving country on single B will cancel.

 

You can NOT cancel a visa, (not "no need" or "nor should"), If you have a single entry Non-B, the visa is NOT cancelled when you leave - your current permission to stay is, totally different things.

[Deixis]

Ozmeldo, obviously I can't give any more information about the school because I risk blowing my cover. Yes, it is a tough decision staying or leaving, I have asked myself all these questions, I tried to see it as an exercise in patience, a Buddhist style meditation challenge, thought that, as a poster mentioned earlier, it will make me a better person blah blah. I ve been going through all these dilemmas in my head for months. I am not sure that my new school will be much better either. I still have doubts about everything but I need to make a decision. I'm by nature a person who doesn' t like confrontation (although it is inevitable sometimes). I want to walk in, do my job to the best of my ability, go home, forget about it. I was very lucky in my life because I' ve only worked at two schools prior to coming to Thailand. I stayed at my first job in another east Asian country for 10 years. I loved it. Then I moved to another country and worked for three years at an equally good job. And then I cam to Thailand. I love the country but hey, I've never experienced such toxic working environment before. Schools with Asian administration don' t operate on the principle of common sense. I have compared notes with friends who work at different schools and they all say the same thing. Well... I know there's no solution in the air at least for the foreseeable future and I know that it 's a take it or leave it deal but it never fails to amaze me how schools continue to impose policies with proven track record of complete and utter failure when they could take simple steps to improve the situation for students and teachers alike.

Anyways this is another cautionary tale and if there s a lesson to be learned here, I ll keep you posted.

 

 

[ozmeldo]

Understood, was just hoping for a general vicinity. Of course. Must be 100 worthless "international schools" in bkk alone.

[Preacher]

OP clearly has an extension of stay, which will be void the the day the job ends.

 

The correct course of action will be:

 

1. Get the new employer to get the paperwork ready to apply for a new non-B visa.

 

2. Cancel the work permit at the labour office with the correct form. You do not need any paperwork from the school, but will need to present your original work permit and receive a slip that you have cancelled your WP. You will have to leave Thailand the same day, but can get an extra 7 days to leave the country for 1,900 baht from immigraiton. You will need to show the slip that you cancelled your WP.

Often you can cancel the WP a few days in advance of the actual termination date.

 

3. Leave Thailand ASAP and apply for a new non-B visa. depending on where you apply this might require a criminal records check.

 

 

Leaving your school in violation of your contract is a civil matter. The school could ask for financial compensation from you as a result, but is unlikely to do so.

 

 

[KhonKaenKowboy]

I saw an ad for a new "International" school opening in Chiang Mai.  How about 40,000?  That is half of what my students who were Salvadoran immigrants, were making at McDonald's in Virginia...8 years ago!  It is getting bad out there folks.  Not a hijacking attempt...just  a mini-rant.

[tonray]

3 hours ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

I saw an ad for a new "International" school opening in Chiang Mai.  How about 40,000?  That is half of what my students who were Salvadoran immigrants, were making at McDonald's in Virginia...8 years ago!  It is getting bad out there folks.  Not a hijacking attempt...just  a mini-rant.

Of course the rent here is only 1/5 of what the rent is in Virginia too.

[puchooay]

1 hour ago, tonray said:

Of course the rent here is only 1/5 of what the rent is in Virginia too.

Not to mention the deductions from salary. Prices of ameneties. 

 

It does make me laugh when people make these comparisons. 

 

My last teaching salary was less than 40000. With my wife working too we were banking more money in a month than anyone of my ex collegues living in the UK were. 

[stubuzz]

2 hours ago, puchooay said:

My last teaching salary was less than 40000. With my wife working too we were banking more money in a month than anyone of my ex collegues living in the UK were. 

You may be cash rich now, but do you have assets and pensions like your poor UK colleagues?

[KhonKaenKowboy]

4 hours ago, tonray said:

Of course the rent here is only 1/5 of what the rent is in Virginia too.

Cost of living is closer to half, though.  And the list continues to grow, of items less expensive.  My point was that previously, 40K would have been simply a degreed teacher.  Now, it is international school wages.  They want BEd, and certification from the States.

[puchooay]

20 hours ago, stubuzz said:

You may be cash rich now, but do you have assets and pensions like your poor UK colleagues?

Yes, thank you. 

[tonray]

20 hours ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

Cost of living is closer to half, though.  And the list continues to grow, of items less expensive.  My point was that previously, 40K would have been simply a degreed teacher.  Now, it is international school wages.  They want BEd, and certification from the States.

In some cases, I was just offered a job (as only a degree holder, non ED) at a secondary school in BKK for 40+ bonus. So if you look the jobs are out there...and that is thru an agency too. I was not looking, they somehow got my contact info from the grapevine.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

2 hours ago, tonray said:

In some cases, I was just offered a job (as only a degree holder, non ED) at a secondary school in BKK for 40+ bonus. So if you look the jobs are out there...and that is thru an agency too. I was not looking, they somehow got my contact info from the grapevine.

Cost of living in BKK would be closer to 3/4 of Virginia....likely more in rural areas.  I noticed the working day seems to have increased, also.  O730 to 1700?  Crazy, more indicators they are childcare facilities.

[stubuzz]

The school has told us that the government has raised current salary cap for EP teachers from 40k to 60k.

[Rhys]

5 hours ago, stubuzz said:

The school has told us that the government has raised current salary cap for EP teachers from 40k to 60k.

oh really...sure it was not what somchai thinks....

[stubuzz]

1 hour ago, Rhys said:

oh really...sure it was not what somchai thinks....

No. It came from the assistant director.