Transfering land to Son.

[BAYBOY]

My wife died recently, and I want to transfer ownership of two Chanote land titles from her to him.

I have been told that we both have to go to our local Land Dept. and submit the various papers proving he is my birth son, and the land is my late wife's

Today I was told that as he is 17, and by law a minor,we must also have a guardian nominated to assist him if needed.

My question is.....Can I as his Father be the Guardian, or does it have to be a Thai adult?

One title is for the house we live in. I have lived there for 17 years and have no intention at to return to my home country. This is home for both of us, and I want to assist and support my son through high school education, University and then employment.

 

Cheers BAYBOY.

[happylarry]

Personal message sent.

HL

[Khun Jean]

Recruiting again? (Is that not against forum rules?)

It would be nice if that information was put here so that others can use this forum and find the information.

 

 

[happylarry]

Khun Jean i dont know the answers to the questions so I cant at this time post any.

All I am doing is passing on my wifes contact details so the guy can call and get his info from a professional, if he chooses to call. Not sure what you mean by recruiting but I am sure that offering accurate information with no charge or commitments is not known as recruiting, especially as the guy has not asked for or indeed need representation.

HL

[Khun Jean]

All I am doing is passing on my wifes contact details so the guy can call and get his info from a professional

You seem to do that a lot. Why not advertise?

[happylarry]

6 hours ago, Khun Jean said:

 

 

You seem to do that a lot. Why not advertise?

At the moment my wife is halfway through her law degree and when she has finished that and passed her bar exam and is a lawyer in her own right then believe me I will be shouting it from the rooftops, but meanwhile we will just carry on offerring advice and help to those that need it, free of charge.

Having said that if somebody decides after talking to my wife that her skills and legal knowledge together with her abilities at the English language are what they require and want her and the lawyer she works with to represent them then obviously there are charges involved, but this is no scam, she will give good advice to anyone over the phone f.o.c.

HL

[Khun Jean]

So we can expect the advice (from your soon to be a lawyer wife) to the OP's question to appear in this topic?

 

And i am not talking about a scam. I am just talking that you use this platform to find customers and by doing that keep information from being public and freely available which is the goal of this forum.

So by using this platform to find potential customers you circumvent the advertising system which keeps this forum alive. Maybe they are not potential customers for your wife as she is not a lawyer yet, but surely potential customers for "the lawyer she works with".

 

 

 

[BEVUP]

This is not Pro advice but just what I have learnt along the way

? Were you married prior to your child being born - If not you may have to go to a court & register him as your blood

Guardianship - I can't see why not you can't be as you would be a legal Parent only acting on behalf of your son & not legally owning the properties ( I'm sure I read this on the Forum )

? Properties - I presume they are still in the childs mothers' name - That being the case her name will be on the back of the Chanotes ( so not anything there to prove really )- But, the big thing is the Chanotes have to be Debt Free for a child to own ( Transfer fees may be cheaper since still in the family )

Hope this helps a little bit - not saying Im correct but I know there are others on this Forum that have been through this & know their home work

Edited August 4, 2017 by BEVUP

[BAYBOY]

hapylarry,

Thanks for the phone number contact to your wife. Spoke with her this morning and will go and see the Land Dept. Monday. No reason why I can not be the Guardian, as being the father and were married six years before the son's birth.
Pleasing to speak with someone who had a quick grasp of the situation and spoke excellent English.

Khun Jean, happylarry offered a possible solution to the question, without touting for business, and I do appreciate his effort. You can imagine the number of "nutters" who would phone his wife if her number was in the public domain. That is why he contacted me by private message.

BEVUP, as above married for 6 years before the birth of our son. Her name is on the
Chanotes and they both are debt free. Interesting one Chanote cover 5 rai of land planted in 400 mango trees. We used it maybe 10 years ago for short term security, and paid all back. The Bank told us 4 years ago that they would not lend on the land now as thay have too much lent out on basically bare farm/ orcharland.

[BAYBOY]

Try again, iPads are a bugger when you have big fingers.
Re the bank. Many of their loans when unpaid are very difficult to recover if just bare land. Living in a rural village it is amazing how much land in the last 15 years has been taken over by the few wealthy people in the district, but never farmed properly, just sitting idle.
Trust all is clear to the 3 of you.
CHEERS AND THANKS,
BAYBOY.

[khunPer]

On 8/4/2017 at 3:27 AM, happylarry said:

At the moment my wife is halfway through her law degree and when she has finished that and passed her bar exam and is a lawyer in her own right then believe me I will be shouting it from the rooftops, but meanwhile we will just carry on offerring advice and help to those that need it, free of charge.

Having said that if somebody decides after talking to my wife that her skills and legal knowledge together with her abilities at the English language are what they require and want her and the lawyer she works with to represent them then obviously there are charges involved, but this is no scam, she will give good advice to anyone over the phone f.o.c.

HL

Why not just say to OP that he should contact a lawyer experienced in land deals and transfers – many lawyers have excellent English speaking staff, or are foreign lawyers working together with Thai lawyers (the latter can represent clients in Court etc.) – first advisory meeting is normally free of charges...

OP: To my knowledge a father can be guardian for a minor – being married to the mother, should normally be proof enough, but you can get further proof at the local Amphor (One Stop Office, where they also issue ID-Cards), where you son can state that you are his father (witness or two may be needed, often office staff will serve as witness) – however, might be a Land Office don't accept a foreign guardian for land ownership. Different Land Offices may interpret rules differently – especially when it comes to foreigners – so ask the local Land Office in question, if they will accept you as guardian.

[BAYBOY]

Today the son and I went to the local Land Dept. Had to deal with two officers.. One for the house and land, and the other for the orchard land.
Both required the same set of copies of original documents.
1) The Chanote showing ownership history.
2) The Blue house book,
3) My Yellow house book,
4) Marriage Certificate in English with Thai translation.
5) Wife's Thai ID card.
6) Son's Thai ID card.
7) My Passport.
8) Wife's Death certificate.
9) Father in law's Death certificate.
10) Mother in law's Death certificate.
9 and 10 as they had given the land to their daughter ( my wife) originally.

No mention of Guardianship, a Will, or any talk of a foreign Father etc.

Have to now get several copy letters signed by people from the Local Amphur, the Tessabann, wait 30 days, then collect from the Land Dept. Job done.

My son can not sell the land, cannot borrow against the land, use it for any form of security, etc. till he is aged 20, then it is his to do whatever.

All pretty straightforward, didn't know about the Grandparents Death certificates so had to return home for those.

Waiting time was 2 hours , then
Stopped for lunch, and finished up all done by 2.45.

Think guardianship was covered by my living here, and showing concern to do things right.

CHEERS,
BAYBOY.

[KittenKong]

6 hours ago, BAYBOY said:

My son can not sell the land, cannot borrow against the land, use it for any form of security, etc. till he is aged 20, then it is his to do whatever.

 

I'm sure that your son is a wonderful and reliable person but as you mentioned that you want to live in the house until you die I think that it would be advisable to get some sort of charge put on it (usufruct?) in order to protect yourself against anything untoward happening if he gets older and maybe falls in with bad people. People do strange things sometimes.

 

There is also the question of what would happen if he died before you do.

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

 

I'm sure that your son is a wonderful and reliable person but as you mentioned that you want to live in the house until you die I think that it would be advisable to get some sort of charge put on it (usufruct?) in order to protect yourself against anything untoward happening if he gets older and maybe falls in with bad people. People do strange things sometimes.

 

There is also the question of what would happen if he died before you do.

Agree, I was going to mention the same; i.e. ask if you already had considered some kind of protection for yourself and your house; perhaps it's already registered on the title deed.

 

If not, then you shall not expect to make any servitude or such registration after the land has been transferred to a minor, so an eventually Usufruct shall be made before any transfer. I'm however not sure how to deal with it in this case, where the land is part of an estate, so I will advise you to seek guidance from a lawyer with experience in land transfers.

 

[BEVUP]

5 hours ago, khunPer said:

Agree, I was going to mention the same; i.e. ask if you already had considered some kind of protection for yourself and your house; perhaps it's already registered on the title deed.

 

If not, then you shall not expect to make any servitude or such registration after the land has been transferred to a minor, so an eventually Usufruct shall be made before any transfer. I'm however not sure how to deal with it in this case, where the land is part of an estate, so I will advise you to seek guidance from a lawyer with experience in land transfers.

 

Be very careful at the land dept as they will not worry about you

I would (but didn't myself as i lost a property with one on) put the Usufrut on when Transferring (I bet they will try & stop you due to son ) take a Lawyer

I would also get a signed document stating guardianship - The land dept are BSting you about just being here & doing the right thing

 

[BAYBOY]

Thanks again for the comments.

To explain further, the land the house is on was gifted to my wife by her parents, about 27 years ago. We married in New Zealand 21 years ago, returned here for a holiday to see if we could come back and settle down. I was very keen to
Ive here, having been here several times before I met my wife. During our visit I was shown a new house being built, almost finished and was told it was for my inlaws. We decided to return and talked about where we may live on return. Once every thing was finalised and we were set to return, my wife explained that this new substantial home was to be ours for free. Mum and Dad signed over the chanote to my wife about 2 months after we settled back.

I did the reverse ofwhat most falang husbands do on cominghere. Got to live in a lovely home, all fully paid for house and land,by my inlaws. Feel so lucky when I hear the horror stories of the Falang husband being ripped to shreds by greedy wife, wife's family, etc.
My in laws loved their daughter and were so pleased to have her back home again.

[BAYBOY]

Further re my son. He is 17, and is determined in 2 years time to go to University in Bangkok to further his education. I Will stay here looking after his house, and he also would like to possibly go overseas for either work or higher education. He has New Zealand citizenship, by birth.
My wife's family are very education minded. Her 5 brothers have degrees, and her 9 nieces and nephews all have degrees ranging from PH.D, Masters and Batchelors. He is continuing along that road.
My dream is to live here till death, and looking forward to seeing him succeed, married and children, the dream, I most probably will not see as at 72 the days for me are counting down.
CHEERS
BAYBOY.

[BEVUP]

On 8/8/2017 at 9:50 PM, BAYBOY said:

Further re my son. He is 17, and is determined in 2 years time to go to University in Bangkok to further his education. I Will stay here looking after his house, and he also would like to possibly go overseas for either work or higher education. He has New Zealand citizenship, by birth.
My wife's family are very education minded. Her 5 brothers have degrees, and her 9 nieces and nephews all have degrees ranging from PH.D, Masters and Batchelors. He is continuing along that road.
My dream is to live here till death, and looking forward to seeing him succeed, married and children, the dream, I most probably will not see as at 72 the days for me are counting down.
CHEERS
BAYBOY.

God to see all is ok 

But as you mentioned No: 9 & 10 - I think all these Gov. Dept are full of it, why would you need to prove yet again who your wife got the land from ( all that was done prior to her receiving it in the first place )

[BAYBOY]

BEVUP,
The death certificates are needed to show the person(s) have passed on. Told under Thai law that if the daughter had died before the givers of the land, they can make a claim against the new person who is having the land transferred to. If her parents had a bad feeling towards my son and myself they may regret giving the land to me/him. further was told if the land reverts back to the original owners they get half and the designated new land owner gets half.
Understandable if say the new owners, ie son in law, grandson, are not liked in any way by wife's family, why should they benefit by the giving persons generosity. Applies to Thai and foreign parties as well. Clear?

CHEERS!
BAYBOY?