4 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

why?

i dont engage in circular arguments, i have had my say.

i haven seen you explain your stance either.

have a nice day y'all.

There's not a lot of statues of Hitler in Germany, nor of Stalin in Russia and I seem to recall that one of the first things done on the invasion of Baghdad by the US, was to pull down the statues of Saddam and if anything happens in North Korea you can bet your house that the statues of any Kims will be the first targets.

Similarly, statues of Michael Jackson and Jimmy Savile have all vanished for very much the same reason.

 

There are arguments both sides as to whether it is a good idea or not. Statues are there to be admired and the people mentioned above are not really the ideal role models and nor are the slave trade supporting 'heroes' . However, if we try to delete all reference to them, they get forgotten along with their crimes, which then get repeated.

59 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

even more so.

they most certainly happened.

 

their actions should most certainly be remembered and never repeated.

We don´t need monuments to remember what happened.

6 minutes ago, mrfill said:

However, if we try to delete all reference to them, they get forgotten along with their crimes, which then get repeated.

I don't understand this narrative that if a glorified statue of a traitor is removed, it will therefore "delete all reference" to him.

 

Plenty of documented history to be found...

8 minutes ago, Skywalker69 said:

We don´t need monuments to remember what happened.

so Auschwitz, the killing fields, toul sleng and any other site where great evil occurred should be bulldozed?

war memorials as well?
 

14 minutes ago, iReason said:

I don't understand this narrative that if a glorified statue of a traitor is removed, it will therefore "delete all reference" to him.

 

Plenty of documented history to be found...

But, like Trump's tax returns, not always visible....

16 minutes ago, mrfill said:

But, like Trump's tax returns, not always visible....

 

Take that up with Special Counsel Mueller. 

 

As for history, it's at your finger tips.

1 hour ago, HooHaa said:

so Auschwitz, the killing fields, toul sleng and any other site where great evil occurred should be bulldozed?

war memorials as well?
 

There are,  once again, although I don't think you're hearing, plenty of memorials, to Auschwitz, the Cambodian killing fields, Rwandan genocide,  just there aren't the memorials to the people that created them!

If you can't grasp that simple fact, join the alt-right, they seem to abound with folks that have a somewhat 'alternative' view of history

2 hours ago, HooHaa said:

so Auschwitz, the killing fields, toul sleng and any other site where great evil occurred should be bulldozed?

war memorials as well?
 

No I am talking about statues!

If the monuments need to be 'removed'...... at least put them in Museums..............

They are part of 'History' just as 'swastika's' and 'Kamakazi airplanes' are..........

Don't destroy them.......................

Prior to his election as Prime Minister of Australia, Tony Abbott announced that should he win the election,

details of atrocities and massacres of native aboriginals by white settlers would be expunged and only a

mention made of it in the school education curriculum. This was because he believed that specific details

were divisive  and made national reconciliation difficult. He romped in but was later dismissed from office

by a relieved nation. I do not know if the curriculum was changed. Simple1 will know I am sure.

The thing is to teach history, warts and all. Not glorify exponents of division and discord with statues in

public open spaces. 

The statues are there. They are works of art. They belong in a history museum at best. imo 

 

3 hours ago, HooHaa said:

so Auschwitz, the killing fields, toul sleng and any other site where great evil occurred should be bulldozed?

war memorials as well?
 

Oh, so you think the Auschwitz memorial is pro-Hitler, do you? I got news for you, it's not. Maybe if you wanted to do a comparable confederate monument, you could alter the equestrian statue of Lee and have his horse trampling a slave.

3 hours ago, Skywalker69 said:

We don´t need monuments to remember what happened.

Speak for yourself....

Many of us would like the monuments to be there just in case we want to see it.............

Just now, sawadeeken said:

Speak for yourself....

Many of us would like the monuments to be there just in case we want to see it.............

I misses the ones celebrating Hitler.

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

I misses the ones celebrating Hitler.

They are still 'facts of life' and a parts of history.............

Are you part ostrich and want to stick your head in the sand so you won't be seen?

Just now, sawadeeken said:

They are still 'facts of life' and a parts of history.............

Are you part ostrich and want to stick your head in the sand so you won't be seen?

They're not history. Just propaganda.

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

They're not history. Just propaganda.

Maybe in some 'feeble minds'.................

Just now, sawadeeken said:

Maybe in some 'feeble minds'.................

So they weren't erected to glorify the confederacy?

7 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

So they weren't erected to glorify the confederacy?

at that time they may have been erected to 'glorify the confederacy'....... But they are still 'Part of History' just as the 'confederacy' is part of history.............

edited.... to add.... It's a Yankees vs Rebels 'THING'

and in any case a part of history............

Like it or not................

Edited August 18, 20178 yr by sawadeeken

7 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

Ah you are saying Robert E. Lee was a traitor?  who else is on your list?  Stonewall Jackson?  who else do you hate from the past Mr Righteous?  

First of all....http://www.civilwarprofiles.com/grant-protects-lee-from-treason-trial/....

 

Secondly....http://nypost.com/2017/08/17/even-robert-e-lee-thought-confederate-monuments-were-a-bad-idea/

 

 

And lastly...http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/stonewall_jackson_s_grandsons_the_monuments_must_go.html

 

As another poster noted, most of the Civil War statues were erected years "after" the War- specifically during the Jim Crow / Civil Rights era.

Just now, TMNH said:

First of all....http://www.civilwarprofiles.com/grant-protects-lee-from-treason-trial/....

 

Secondly....http://nypost.com/2017/08/17/even-robert-e-lee-thought-confederate-monuments-were-a-bad-idea/

 

 

And lastly...http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/stonewall_jackson_s_grandsons_the_monuments_must_go.html

 

As another poster noted, most of the Civil War statues were erected years "after" the War- specifically during the Jim Crow / Civil Rights era.

actually from the late 1800's through the 20's.

3 minutes ago, sawadeeken said:

at that time they may have been erected to 'glorify the confederacy'....... But they are still 'Part of History' just as the 'confederacy' is part of history.............

And the state houses should still be flying the confederate battle flags too?

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

And the state houses should still be flying the confederate battle flags too?

Where does this fit in???????

Just now, sawadeeken said:

Where does this fit in???????

Aren't they part of history, too?

ANYTHING HISTORIC should be 'Preserved'................

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

Aren't they part of history, too?

HUH??????

1 minute ago, sawadeeken said:

HUH??????

You mean that the confederate battle flag has no basis in history? That it wasn't flying from the capitols of many southern states. That is wasn't incorporated into the very flags of those states?

9 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

actually from the late 1800's through the 20's.

More specifically...http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/08/the-real-story-of-all-those-confederate-statues/

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

You mean that the confederate battle flag has no basis in history? That it wasn't flying from the capitols of many southern states. That is wasn't incorporated into the very flags of those states?

This whole topic is not about 'flying the flag on State houses.......... It's about destroying parts of history.....

And this is my last attempt to open your eyes to Preserving anything Historic.............

As the Thai bargirls say.... "up to you"..........

7 minutes ago, sawadeeken said:

This whole topic is not about 'flying the flag on State houses.......... It's about destroying parts of history.....

And this is my last attempt to open your eyes to Preserving anything Historic.............

As the Thai bargirls say.... "up to you"..........

And preserving an "historic" symbol that some considered a treasonous part of history as well as subjugation of blacks should be construed as important? Nicky Haley as Governor of South Carolina thought not.