Thailand's former PM Yingluck fled to Dubai - senior party members

[inThailand]

Just now, Thechook said:

There is absolutely no excuse to postpone an election now unless Thaksin's grandchildren are giving Prayuth nightmares.

Surely they can find a few more years of excuses? Let's consult with this fortune teller. 

[starky]

16 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

Confused, which one....................

 

Kaiser Soce....................https://www.facebook.com/public/Kaiser-Soce/.

 

Keyser Soze....................https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyser_Söze

I meant number 2 RC. Sorry for the spelling era

[steven100]

Of course she's in Dubai .....   and she's staying at the brothers mansion.

All paid for by courtesy of the Thai people and the Thai economy.

All while most Thai's are looking at how to pay for their next family meal.

Very strange how some TV farang can support this and her actions.

Amazing Thailand .....   !  

Edited August 26, 2017 by steven100

[steven100]

16 minutes ago, Thechook said:

There is absolutely no excuse to postpone an election now unless Thaksin's grandchildren are giving Prayuth nightmares.

and what .....  go through the whole process again of red shirts fighting yellow shirts and all the insecurity and mayhem ....    no thanks. 

Democracy is only a smoke screen as shown in the US, Australia ... and many other places. Won't work in Thailand as history has proven ... imo

[inThailand]

We don't need no stinking democracy or free speech! We have article 44! 

[Kieran00001]

5 hours ago, scunner said:

So how much did that rice [support scheme / scam / boondoogle / whatever] end up costing the poor old taxpayer in the end?

 

I've been off the site for a number of years, but the last time I was here, the news section was full of reports of graft, sweetheart deals and thousands of metric tonnes of rice rotting in warehouses . So I assume we're talking billions of £'s here at the very least - right or wrong?

 

An estimated loss of about $5 billion between 2010 and 2012, so roughly 3.5% of the total budget for those years.

[elgenon]

Sounds like the best solution for the general and the lady. Does the government keep her money? 

 

What will happen to the general when he leaves office? I am sure he is concerned. He has made a lot of enemies. I think he is trying to stack the police and military in his favor but that can be changed.

[Artisi]

6 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

She does not need a re-entry permit...

Correct, just the second half of the TM6 duly completed. 

As a side issue, did she depart on an official  Government passport or just the ordinary pleb one? 

Edited August 27, 2017 by Artisi

[steven100]

3 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Correct, just the second half of the TM6 duly completed. 

As a side issue, did she depart on an official  Government passport or just the ordinary pleb one? 

and did she have to wait in the ques at immigration or did she use the VIP & officials desk 

 

did she fly budget airlines in Cattle class or BA 1st class ....  ?

[inThailand]

3 minutes ago, steven100 said:

and did she have to wait in the ques at immigration or did she use the VIP & officials desk 

 

did she fly budget airlines in Cattle class or BA 1st class ....  ?

If she would have had to wait in the immigration lines, she would still be here holding her bladder like the others in line.

[halloween]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

An estimated loss of about $5 billion between 2010 and 2012, so roughly 3.5% of the total budget for those years.

Estimated by whom? According to the in-depth article in yesterday's BP the accepted figure is B500 billion.

 

Also interesting, why do you quote your figure as a percentage of the budget when it wasn't IN the budget?

[rijb]

Accepted figure?  Sounds like a movie.  Bank robbers get away with 5 million.  Bank claims it was 50 million, to cover their embezzlement.

[halloween]

1 minute ago, rijb said:

Accepted figure?  Sounds like a movie.  Bank robbers get away with 5 million.  Bank claims it was 50 million, to cover their embezzlement.

You are right, there should be an accurate accounting, and the failure to keep accounts of government expenditure of such scale should be considered negligence and malfeasance in office.

[rijb]

Just now, halloween said:

You are right, there should be an accurate accounting, and the failure to keep accounts of government expenditure of such scale should be considered negligence and malfeasance in office.

It would have been a historic first.

[halloween]

Just now, rijb said:

It would have been a historic first.

No, the historic first should have happened on the 25th but has been delayed.

[rijb]

Just now, halloween said:

No, the historic first should have happened on the 25th but has been delayed.

A judgement?  Not hardly.  A fair sentence carried out to the end?  That would be a first.

[halloween]

28 minutes ago, rijb said:

A judgement?  Not hardly.  A fair sentence carried out to the end?  That would be a first.

First, they would have to get them back from Dubai.

[Oziex1]

Any international coverage of the Yingluck story?

[rijb]

18 minutes ago, halloween said:

First, they would have to get them back from Dubai.

Enjoy your wait.  

[LannaGuy]

22 minutes ago, Oziex1 said:

Any international coverage of the Yingluck story?

yes go look but he's an example from BBC

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41059887

[Kiwiken]

Yingluck if she has fled has done so because she had already been found guilty by the Junta. No matter the case or the evidence the Ruling elite had decided her guilt. After that they presented the faux fair trial. Since 1932 Siam has meandered along coup after coup. Until all accept democracy with all its flaws this will remain a 3rd world Country.

The only difference between Myanmar and Thailand is Thailand trades better with the World.

Sadly its Elites learn nothing from history be it their own or other Nations

[jayboy]

9 hours ago, jing jing said:

Elite and amart (อำมาตย์) are essentially synonymous.

 

I admit to possibly using a bit of hyperbole in describing his Machiavellian attempts to assure an indefinite reign of power ... but not very much.

No they are not synonymous.There is obviously an overlap but the distinctions between them are important.It is true that within the Thai context the terms are not very well defined."Elite" is rather more general and would include the wealthy as well as the plutocratic Sino-Thai tycoons, military generals, feudals etc: it is not however a particularly politicised term with associated specific objectives.Thus I would argue Thaksin was part of the elite, not least because he shares the Sino Thai business class's values and characteristics.Amart is a bit different because it is much more political, essentially a grouping determined to retain privileges, power and wealth - tolerating democracy only grudgingly and on its own terms.For more refer to Duncan Mccargo's writings which explains how the amart cynically and selfishly exploits one of the pillars of Thailand's constitution.

 

As to your concession earlier comments about Thaksin's were hyperbole, I am afraid I will have to correct you.They are mostly wrong.Yet there is a grain of truth in that Thaksin certainly admired the Asian strongman tradition with Lee Kwan Yew as the obvious example.(The admiration was mutual by the way).Yet there was never a chance that this could be replicated in Thailand where all authoritarian rulers are ultimately frustrated by checks and balances, part of the Thai genius in my view.It's important to knock the myth of everlasting Thaksin rule on the head because it is part of the dishonest set of arguments deployed against democracy in Thailand.

[jayboy]

8 hours ago, jing jing said:

History is replete with despots who came to power more or less through democratic means.  One needn't go back all that far in European history to find an example.  I'm sure Thaksin's golfing buddy and political soulmate Hun Sen could put together an electoral majority too, if necessary.

 

Thaksin's populist programs were conceived not out of an altruistic desire to help the poor better their lot, but to guarantee his own stranglehold on power.  It was his plan, in my opinion, to become even more loved by the common people than anyone else in the Kingdom, and in Thailand, we all know what that means.  Any comparison to the Netherlands is simply preposterous.

 

 

Sorry but this is a distorted view,You are obviously intelligent but I would liken this kind of view as one held by a snail crawling over a mosaic - not the full picture.It's absurd or at least fruitless to question the motives of politicians - one has to look at their actions.Frankly there's no reason to doubt Thaksin's wish to better the lot of the Thai people.That could easily co-exist with a variety of more ignoble motives.What's interesting of course is the insane hatred of Thaksin one sees in some sections in Thailand - but actually it's not really about Thaksin at all.See below.

 

The historian Michael Nelson explains matters well:

 

.... the long struggle against the “Thaksin regime”, this conflict, in turn, is embedded in the “dual structure” of the Thai polity, or two competing “notions of legitimacy”. The old top-down paternalist model that featured the monarchy, military, and the bureaucracy as top-layers within the ideological framework of “Nation, Religion, Monarchy” (NRM) aiming for a totalistic control of the people, who were not seen as citizens but as obedient and conformist subjects, has come under increasing pressure by a more recent competing model. This model is bottom-up, featuring equal citizens, politicians, and political parties, who act within the framework of the constitution, based on the sovereignty of the people, and acted out in a democratic and pluralist order that depends on an independently thinking and diverse citizenry.

This movement from the former to the latter model has put substantial pressure on the conservative forces in the polity, both on leading political (including military and bureaucratic) actors and those citizens who keep subscribing to the first model. The PDRC, then, is to be seen as part of this conservative sector of the political order. In its protests, it has combined ultra-nationalism with ultra-royalism, and it does not accept that Thai people are equal citizens with equal rights. Rather, as part of their hatred for Thaksin, who, from their perspective, represents all things that are wrong with the rise of the second model and its institutions and personnel, they have utter contempt for the majority of voters, who have voted him and his various political parties into office again and again. And since those voters have made the “wrong” electoral choices in 2001, 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2011, the only way to stop this is to deprive them as much as possible of their right to vote.

[LannaGuy]

3 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Sorry but this is a distorted view,You are obviously intelligent but I would liken this kind of view as one held by a snail crawling over a mosaic - not the full picture.It's absurd or at least fruitless to question the motives of politicians - one has to look at their actions.Frankly there's no reason to doubt Thaksin's wish to better the lot of the Thai people.That could easily co-exist with a variety of more ignoble motives.What's interesting of course is the insane hatred of Thaksin one sees in some sections in Thailand - but actually it's not really about Thaksin at all.See below.

 

The historian Michael Nelson explains matters well:

 

.... the long struggle against the “Thaksin regime”, this conflict, in turn, is embedded in the “dual structure” of the Thai polity, or two competing “notions of legitimacy”. The old top-down paternalist model that featured the monarchy, military, and the bureaucracy as top-layers within the ideological framework of “Nation, Religion, Monarchy” (NRM) aiming for a totalistic control of the people, who were not seen as citizens but as obedient and conformist subjects, has come under increasing pressure by a more recent competing model. This model is bottom-up, featuring equal citizens, politicians, and political parties, who act within the framework of the constitution, based on the sovereignty of the people, and acted out in a democratic and pluralist order that depends on an independently thinking and diverse citizenry.

This movement from the former to the latter model has put substantial pressure on the conservative forces in the polity, both on leading political (including military and bureaucratic) actors and those citizens who keep subscribing to the first model. The PDRC, then, is to be seen as part of this conservative sector of the political order. In its protests, it has combined ultra-nationalism with ultra-royalism, and it does not accept that Thai people are equal citizens with equal rights. Rather, as part of their hatred for Thaksin, who, from their perspective, represents all things that are wrong with the rise of the second model and its institutions and personnel, they have utter contempt for the majority of voters, who have voted him and his various political parties into office again and again. And since those voters have made the “wrong” electoral choices in 2001, 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2011, the only way to stop this is to deprive them as much as possible of their right to vote.

Two brilliant posts thank you for bringing some sanity to this sword of damocles.

Edited August 27, 2017 by LannaGuy

[Kieran00001]

3 hours ago, halloween said:

Estimated by whom? According to the in-depth article in yesterday's BP the accepted figure is B500 billion.

 

Also interesting, why do you quote your figure as a percentage of the budget when it wasn't IN the budget?

 

By the committee appointed to investigate the scheme, that was the figure they gave.  The percentage of the annual budget having relevance as the loss was covered by the tax payer, and I really just included it to give a sense of scale as billions is quite meaningless unless you know how many billions a country managing off.

[zydeco]

On 8/26/2017 at 11:03 AM, delphioracle said:

Just a couple or so questions .

 

How many of you are actually Thai citizens and why are you here as opposed to your country of birth.

 

I am her because it is my home country and I lived or rather survived the Thaksin  regimes, the drugs war disappearing lawyers  and  court case witnesses hostile to the Thakin's and their regime, press repression Red Shirt urban terrorism, rioting,  arson and pillage etc as well as the disproved  blow my air-plane up  story  which Boeing scotched by explaining the truth of the issue, 

 

We have had some three years of a peaceful society, even  in Isaan where I and my  family hail from the folks there are not so worried about the current administration.

 

The current situation may well be to some not ideal.  But it is working in its own unique Asian way.

 

The road to democracy  especially  Asian style democracy is a slow one.Look how long it has taken Singapore to achieve the  level of democracy it shows to the outside world.

 

Let me see, England's Magna  Carta, 1000 or so years old  but still learning curves are being  navigated. 

 

 

You're right, it's none of my business, which is why I rarely post on the Thailand News forum and just about never post in these topics where people take sides. You guys run your country and settle it all among yourselves. I'm just a visitor.

[Krataiboy]

If the junta is to retain any credibility, it must set up an independent inquiry to discover who is to blame for this incredible farce.

 

Was it simply a giant cock-up by the forces of law and order or - as some have suggested -  the result of a conspiracy, possibly involving government officials?

 

Whatever  the truth, the Thai people, who are clearly sick and tired of there being one rule for the rich and another for the poor, have a right to know.

 

So, too, (once they  have stopped rolling in the aisles clutching  their aching ribs) has the rest of the world.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Krataiboy

[jing jing]

5 hours ago, elgenon said:

Sounds like the best solution for the general and the lady. Does the government keep her money? 

 

What will happen to the general when he leaves office? I am sure he is concerned. He has made a lot of enemies. I think he is trying to stack the police and military in his favor but that can be changed.

Where she's gone and how much she left behind are inconsequential.  What matters is that she's gone, obviously with the tacit approval - if not actual assistance - of the sitting government.  Her exile is the price the lady has paid for her loyalty to Thaksin; a bitter pill to swallow, though it certainly could have been worse.

 

Well, now that's done and dusted, isn't it about time to hold an election?

 

;-)

 

[Artisi]

2 minutes ago, jing jing said:

Where she's gone and how much she left behind are inconsequential.  What matters is that she's gone, obviously with the tacit approval - if not actual assistance - of the sitting government.  Her exile is the price the lady has paid for her loyalty to Thaksin; a bitter pill to swallow, though it certainly could have been worse.

 

Well, now that's done and dusted, isn't it about time to hold an election?

 

;-)

 

Not too sure, there are still a couple of sisters and the cheating little toe-rag to be considered..... 

[HOAX]

Its like watching a funny tv show, hundreds of mice running in each direction after breaking out of a cage while the old and slow Thai officials runs around unable to catch a single one.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect