The Tap Sap 'gig' Was In The Headlines Recently

[brahmburgers]

there was a major newspaper headline which referred to Thaksin's (supposed) mistress saying, "I am not his gig"

Some may wonder what the Thai mean when they say gig. Here's my take on it:

first off, it should be spelled 'geeg' or 'geek' - though it doesn't mean the same as 'geek' in English. Anyhow, that's the way I hear it.

I believe it's a 'tap sap' taken from the English word: gigolo

....and is used in Thailand as slang to describe someone who is like a 'sex-buddy' for someone else. To put it another way, an acquaintance (or friend) who is around mostly for casual sexual convenience.

for a list of hundreds of other tap sap (Thai words taken from other languages) - contact me [brahmburgers].

[mangkorn]

No, it's not a "tap sap" - it comes directly from the Thai vernacular กุ๊กกิ๊ก

ี๋The idiom is sometimes expressed in the longer form กุ๊กกิ๊กจู๋จี๋

It basically means "to make out" (for lack of a better translation). Thus, a กิ๊ก (gik - short vowel, high tone) - is the person with whom one does that - whether man or woman, and thus is used by both genders to refer one of the opposite sex in that particular condition. (As for gays, I have no idea, but it would make sense if they also use the term in the same way).

Otherwise, your definition of a casual sexual relationship is correct.

As for transliteration, "geek" clearly implies a long vowel sound, which is not the case with this Thai word.

(By the way, "gigolo" is pronounced "jigolo" - so that would not be a likely origin even if it were a "tap sap," which this one is not. If you're compiling a list of such terms, you may want to double-check them before publication. Best to be sure.)

[mangkorn]

And just for fun, the Thai slang term for "gigolo," or "pimp" (or perhaps any man who lives off of women) is แมงดา - "maeng daa"

It's the name of a large water beetle which is a delicacy for those who like to eat bugs; the vernacular reference comes from the fact that after mating, that male remains atop the female (sleeping it off?) while she goes on with the task of finding the proper place to lay her eggs: the female is working; the male is just letting her carry him along.

A perfect description of "gigolo/pimp" derived from the natural world.

[brahmburgers]

thanks mangkorn. I stand corrected, though there are at least a few tap sap where the pronunciation in the Thai adaptation is changed. a couple examples:

horoscope = horaasaat

meter = met

- - - - - - - - - -

I have a question about the English word 'sure' (as in certain)

and its nearly identical Thai equivelent = sheu-a ชัวร์

which is often used as; ‘can I believe you?’ or ‘are you sure?’

.....is the Thai word a tap sap?

[DavidHouston]

thanks mangkorn. I stand corrected, though there are at least a few tap sap where the pronunciation in the Thai adaptation is changed. a couple examples:

horoscope = horaasaat

meter = met

- - - - - - - - - -

I have a question about the English word 'sure' (as in certain)

and its nearly identical Thai equivelent = sheu-a ชัวร์

which is often used as; 'can I believe you?' or 'are you sure?'

.....is the Thai word a tap sap?

My impression is that โหราศาสตร์ is not an English ทับศัพท์ but is derived directly from Pali and Sanskrit. The following is the entry from the Royal Institute Dictionary on the root word "hŏhn", astrologer:

โหร [โหน] น. ผู้พยากรณ์โดยอาศัยการโคจรของดวงดาวเป็นหลัก; ผู้ให้ฤกษ์และพยากรณ์โชคชะตาราศี. (ส., ป. โหรา).

"a person who foretells the future by relying primarily on the movement of stars; a person who confers special power and preditcs a person's fortune through use of the zodiac and the position of the stars and planets. (Sanskrit, Pali, 'hoh-raa'). "

The term may in fact come from Sanskrit to, ultimately, both Thai and English relatively intact.

I would like to know from those of you more knowledgeable than I whether this is indeed correct. Thanks.

[/size]

[CSS]

No, it's not a "tap sap" - it comes directly from the Thai vernacular กุ๊กกิ๊ก

ี๋The idiom is sometimes expressed in the longer form กุ๊กกิ๊กจู๋จี๋

It basically means "to make out" (for lack of a better translation). Thus, a กิ๊ก (gik - short vowel, high tone) - is the person with whom one does that - whether man or woman, and thus is used by both genders to refer one of the opposite sex in that particular condition. (As for gays, I have no idea, but it would make sense if they also use the term in the same way).

Otherwise, your definition of a casual sexual relationship is correct.

As for transliteration, "geek" clearly implies a long vowel sound, which is not the case with this Thai word.

(By the way, "gigolo" is pronounced "jigolo" - so that would not be a likely origin even if it were a "tap sap," which this one is not. If you're compiling a list of such terms, you may want to double-check them before publication. Best to be sure.)

My experience with hearing the word Gik is that it is used for casual non-exclusive dating relationships but doesn't imply sex. A sexual relationship would be ชู้. Though that is often used but not restricted to extramarital affairs. Casually it's just used for anyone that has many girlfriends or sleeps around.

Like any word the context must be considered. I'm sure in a Bangkok bar scene Gik probably does take on the overtly sexual connotations previously posted to. My experience, however, leads me to believe that it is for casual relationships that aren't of friends but aren't of exclusive boyfriend/girlfriend either. I guess it's necessary as the word "fan" can mean anything from commonly dating to marriage.

[DavidHouston]

For the definitive word on the definition of "kik" one must look to the absolute authoritative source -- one must of course look to Wikipedia. And, yes, there is an article on the definition of "kik" on Wikipedia at http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/พูดคุย:กิ๊ก. As a service to this community, I downloaded the article and attatched it herein. (Sincce Wikipedia is a free service and its content not copyrighted, I assume that this attachment is not a violation of Board policy.) Wikipedia references a scientific study of the term conducted by very serious students at Chulalongkorn University; with such a provinance, the material must be right. No?

Let us know what you think.

KikDef.doc

[CSS]

For the definitive word on the definition of "kik" one must look to the absolute authoritative source -- one must of course look to Wikipedia. And, yes, there is an article on the definition of "kik" on Wikipedia at http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/พูดคุย:กิ๊ก. As a service to this community, I downloaded the article and attatched it herein. (Sincce Wikipedia is a free service and its content not copyrighted, I assume that this attachment is not a violation of Board policy.) Wikipedia references a scientific study of the term conducted by very serious students at Chulalongkorn University; with such a provinance, the material must be right. No?

Let us know what you think.

Interesting. Thanks for that David.

[DavidHouston]

For the definitive word on the definition of "kik" one must look to the absolute authoritative source -- one must of course look to Wikipedia. And, yes, there is an article on the definition of "kik" on Wikipedia at http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/พูดคุย:กิ๊ก. As a service to this community, I downloaded the article and attatched it herein. (Sincce Wikipedia is a free service and its content not copyrighted, I assume that this attachment is not a violation of Board policy.) Wikipedia references a scientific study of the term conducted by very serious students at Chulalongkorn University; with such a provinance, the material must be right. No?

Let us know what you think.

Interesting. Thanks for that David.

From reading the Wikipedia article and the Chula research, I would say that your explanation, CSS, is spot on. Good job!

[soundman]

A กิ๊ก is best described (from a recent article in one of the Thai teenage weekly magazines, "Star" I believe) as:

"Not a one night stand, not boyfriend and girlfriend, but a relationship in between with no strings attached."

[cooL_guY_corY]

There does not have to be any sexual contact. Doesnt mean there cant be, just its not a prerequisite to use the term

[brahmburgers]

I could use a gig right about now .....or a gik or a geek, or a geeg.

She can just show up at my door, no questions asked.

[mangkorn]

Right you are, CSS. I meant to type "casual relationship" but must've have a Freudian typing slip to include the word sexual. That was my mistake. The basic definition of "making out" is a good barometer, and in some cases a "gik" may be someone you just "hang out" with instead of "make out" with. (Nobody else should really know what two people do when they're alone anyway...) Thanks for pointing that out.

[Grover]

ok I did a translation of the "10 characteristics of a gig" from the wikipedia link of DH, its a very rough translation, some parts are missing, maybe someone with better Thai than me can correct it.

หนึ่ง ห้ามหึงหวง

1. They shouldnt be jealous

สอง มีอะไรกันได้ แต่ไม่ใช่ของกันและกัน

2. They can do anything together (eg including sex) but do not belong to each other

สาม ไม่มีสิทธิเรียกร้องมากเกินเหตุ

3. They should not be overly demanding without a good reason

สี่ ห้ามใช้กิ๊กร่วมกันกับเพื่อน

4. You cant take a gig out together with your friends

ห้า กิ๊กอาจเปลี่ยนสถานะได้ และห้ามเศร้า

5. A gig can change the status of the relationship anytime (eg ending it), if so, dont be sad.

หก ถ้ากิ๊กคิดจะมีแฟนเป็นตัวเป็นตน โดยไม่ใช่เราห้ามฟูมฟาย ต้องยอมรับด้วยความยินดี และค่อยตกลงกันทีหลังว่า จะกิ๊กกันต่อไปหรือไม่

6. If your gig gets a boy/girl friend, you should accept this and be happy for them, (even if you wont be their gig anymore??)

เจ็ด ไม่จำเป็นต้องเทคแคร์กันเกินเหตุ เพราะเป็นแค่กิ๊ก

7. ?

แปด กิ๊กไม่ได้จำกัดจำนวน เป็นอินฟินิตี้ ไม่จำกัดเพศ วัย และ สถานภาพ ถ้าไม่กลัวตาย เพราะเอดส์

8. ? something about AIDS

เก้า กิ๊กสำคัญรองจากแฟน

9. A gig is less important than a friend

สิบ กิ๊กยังไงก็เป็นกิ๊ก ต้องเจียมตัว

10. Finally... anyway... a gig should be humble and modest.

[DavidHouston]

That's really good, Grover. Let me make a few comments:

เจ็ด ไม่จำเป็นต้องเทคแคร์กันเกินเหตุ เพราะเป็นแค่กิ๊ก

7. You don't have to take very good care of your kik; after all, he or she is only a kik.

สี่ ห้ามใช้กิ๊กร่วมกันกับเพื่อน

4. You may not share a kik with your friends (presumably, the prohibition means only contemporaneous sharing; serial sharing is permitted, apparently.)

Your translation of 2 seems to me to be right on point.

แปด กิ๊กไม่ได้จำกัดจำนวน เป็นอินฟินิตี้ ไม่จำกัดเพศ วัย และ สถานภาพ ถ้าไม่กลัวตาย เพราะเอดส์

You are not limited to the number of kik you may have; you may have an infinite number. Kiks are not limited by sex, age, or [social] status, if you are not concerned about dying from AIDS.

I hope this is all "tongue in cheek" and there is a strong implied warning here by the rule-makers to their fellow students against casual sex.

That's all from me; you are going to get a lot of replies on this one.

[meadish_sweetball]

Excellent job.

หก ถ้ากิ๊กคิดจะมีแฟนเป็นตัวเป็นตน โดยไม่ใช่เราห้ามฟูมฟาย ต้องยอมรับด้วยความยินดี และค่อยตกลงกันทีหลังว่า จะกิ๊กกันต่อไปหรือไม่

6. If your gig gets a boy/girl friend, you should accept this and be happy for them, (even if you wont be their gig anymore??)

I think the last part should be:

"...and you have to agree whether you should continue being kiks or not."

[DavidHouston]

"ถ้ากิ๊กคิดจะมีแฟนเป็นตัวเป็นตน"

That's an interesting phrase "เป็นตัวเป็นตน". It means "[ADV] tangibly; apparently; evidently; vividly; clearly; visibly". Lexitron also shows synonyms as "ปรากฏชัด, เป็นหลักฐาน, เป็นที่เปิดเผย".

Does this mean, "If it is clear that your kik has found herself (himself) a real boyfriend,"; the implication being that the kik did not tell you her(him)self?

[Grover]

Thanks for the input DH and Meadish, its a word I have been trying to understand for a while without success, there is really no word in English to describe this type of relationship.

It seems to me that the "kik" relationship needs a certain amount of emotional control/restraint/maturity and a surprising lack of commitment, which makes me wonder, how prevalent and successful are these "kik" relationships

[Grover]

"ถ้ากิ๊กคิดจะมีแฟนเป็นตัวเป็นตน"

That's an interesting phrase "เป็นตัวเป็นตน". It means "[ADV] tangibly; apparently; evidently; vividly; clearly; visibly". Lexitron also shows synonyms as "ปรากฏชัด, เป็นหลักฐาน, เป็นที่เปิดเผย".

Does this mean, "If it is clear that your kik has found herself (himself) a real boyfriend,"; the implication being that the kik did not tell you her(him)self?

the exact meaning is subtle, I cant pick it up, im sure a native speaker would know exactly.

I have taken the meaning of เป็นตัวเป็นตน along the lines of: "to become known", "to be revealed"

The phrase therefore saying "If it becomes know that your kik has found herself (himself) a real boyfriend," or

"If it is revealed that the kik has found herself (himself) a real boyfriend,"

So yes, I think it can imply a surreptitiousness on the part of the kik, the knowledge coming from other sources.

But not sure on this one.

Edited September 17, 2007 by Grover

[Grover]

It seems to me that the "kik" relationship needs a certain amount of emotional control/restraint/maturity and a surprising lack of commitment, which makes me wonder, how prevalent and successful are these "kik" relationships

I found an answer, apparently is it extremely prevalent at 40% of Thai spouses according to this news topic

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=147741

It is an almost unbelievable percentage.

[Rikker]

thanks mangkorn. I stand corrected, though there are at least a few tap sap where the pronunciation in the Thai adaptation is changed. a couple examples:

meter = met

- - - - - - - - - -

I have a question about the English word 'sure' (as in certain)

and its nearly identical Thai equivelent = sheu-a ชัวร์

which is often used as; ‘can I believe you?’ or ‘are you sure?’

.....is the Thai word a tap sap?

I'd guess that เมตร /met/ pronounced as it is because it's borrowed from French, not English. In which case it matches the French pretty well, doesn't it? Any French speakers please chime in, as I can only guess.

And yes, I believe ชัวร์ /chua/ is from English "sure", but it has two common Thai equivalents แน่นอน /nae-nawn/, when referring to the surety of a certain fact, or แน่ใจ /nae-jai/ when referring to a person's surety of mind about some fact. "Are you sure?" would be แน่ใจไหม /nae-jai mai/. Whereas something like "The package will arrive tomorrow, for sure" would be พัสดุจามาถึงพรุ่งนี้แน่นอน /phat-sa-du ja ma thueng phrung-ni nae-nawn/. I think ชัวร์ is more suited for the second use, but I'm sure it's used in both situations by some (or many).

Overall, I think แน่นอน and แน่ใจ are probably more common than ชัวร์, but it's hard to make judgments like that about spoken frequency. There's an advertisement I hear on the radio about every commercial break lately with the phrase ถูกชัวร์ /thuuk chua/ referring to the surety of their low prices.