Thai Thinking Or Logic

[JonnieB]

okay here's the deal...my friend works as a waiter at a small restaurant here in pattaya. his salary is like B150 a day plus tips (another B30-B40 a day). so total salary is around B200 a day. now, he tells me he pays B100 return to take a moto taxi to and from work. that is 50% of his daily salary. now, his room is on a direct sontow route to the restaurant. when i ask why he doesn't take the songtow for B5 or B10 each way (total cost B10-20 per day or 10-20% of his current commute cost) he says he might be late for work. i didn't even point out the logical step of starting out a little earlier to make sure you get to work on time if taking the public songtow.

he then wonders if he should buy his own motocike (has to be a Mio as they are so naaraak) for B40,000 to cut his commute costs

[kmart]

Luckily, he has JonnieB as a personal advisor.

[meemiathai]

okay here's the deal...my friend works as a waiter at a small restaurant here in pattaya. his salary is like B150 a day plus tips (another B30-B40 a day). so total salary is around B200 a day. now, he tells me he pays B100 return to take a moto taxi to and from work. that is 50% of his daily salary. now, his room is on a direct sontow route to the restaurant. when i ask why he doesn't take the songtow for B5 or B10 each way (total cost B10-20 per day or 10-20% of his current commute cost) he says he might be late for work. i didn't even point out the logical step of starting out a little earlier to make sure you get to work on time if taking the public songtow.

he then wonders if he should buy his own motocike (has to be a Mio as they are so naaraak) for B40,000 to cut his commute costs

Does everyone in Pattaya do the same?

[zaza]

okay here's the deal...my friend works as a waiter at a small restaurant here in pattaya. his salary is like B150 a day plus tips (another B30-B40 a day). so total salary is around B200 a day. now, he tells me he pays B100 return to take a moto taxi to and from work. that is 50% of his daily salary. now, his room is on a direct sontow route to the restaurant. when i ask why he doesn't take the songtow for B5 or B10 each way (total cost B10-20 per day or 10-20% of his current commute cost) he says he might be late for work. i didn't even point out the logical step of starting out a little earlier to make sure you get to work on time if taking the public songtow.

he then wonders if he should buy his own motocike (has to be a Mio as they are so naaraak) for B40,000 to cut his commute costs

[JonnieB]

maybe it's a "face" thing...arrive by "private" moto-taxi rather than the dreaded "public" songtow!!! so spend half you salary getting to and from work...TIT

[cmsally]

If he was my employee he wouldn't get paid unless he took the cheap transport option.

One of my employees was going to buy a TV by installment and we worked out it would cost him over 6k when the same /or similar TV would be 3,xxxk in cash. I nagged him so much he ended up saving money to pay cash, I think it was the first time in his life . I think bad money management is just a habit for some people, and they need to be forced out of it

[pgs]

Reminds me of a comic in the Pattaya Mail last year:

Thai woman with western male

"Darling, I would love to explain Thai logic to you - but I'm afraid your brain would explode."

Since then, this is A4 & on the fridge. Only took an hour to explain it to TW.

[dominique355]

Reminds me of a comic in the Pattaya Mail last year:

Thai woman with western male

"Darling, I would love to explain Thai logic to you - but I'm afraid your brain would explode."

Since then, this is A4 & on the fridge. Only took an hour to explain it to TW.

Love it!

[Tod Daniels]

Unfortunately from what I have seen; critical thinking, thinking outside the box, realizing there actually is a box to think inside or outside of, foresight or planning ahead, seem to not be strong areas of interest to the inhabitants in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

The two words; "thai logic" are at best an oxymoronic term; canceling each other out completely in my opinion. I have yet to run across such an animal here. Then again it could be a horse of a different color, elusive, and hard to spot.

Please realize; I am not enamored by, enchanted with nor endeared to this culture in the slightest. I am as far from the "we-b-thai" faction on this forum as I possibly could be.

WARNING: My version of reality might not be compatible with yours.

[ZukiSuzuki]

Another thread dedicated to generalizations and bashing of the Thai people.

Do you guys get off on this?

[sbk]

I think some do...

For me, it seems to vary from person to person. Imagine that!

I know a woman and her husband who work and save and plan ahead. They've managed to buy land on their combined salaries because of their frugality and planning.

I know another woman who bought an expensive phone on plan when she didn't have enough money to pay her rent.

Amazing how two different people can be so different, isn't it?

[mart29]

yeah i dont really see the point of this, people think one way, fine, its their country so you have to accept the way they do things. just as if they came to england they would have to accept the way we do things. not worth fussing over in my opinion.

You may see flaws in their logic but its that same mindset that gives them that lovely laid back attitude that people (like me) really like.

[ZukiSuzuki]

Another thread dedicated to generalizations and bashing of the Thai people.

Do you guys get off on this?

I don't see any bashing going on. Just a good humoured discussion.

The lack of applied Western logic is one of the things that makes Thailand such a great place (sometimes!).

How do you define western logic? Is there such a thing as 'western logic'. If so then is there such a thing as 'eastern logic'? What are the differences?

Where is the west by the way? Do you think there is such a place as 'the far east'?

[thaihome]

How many people in the western world that, as adults, work for minimum wage use "critical thinking, thinking outside the box, realizing there actually is a box to think inside or outside of, foresight or planning ahead"?

This more an economic /intelligence /education thing rather then cultural, don't you think?

TH

[Etrigan]

Zuki - Take a chill pill !

So many questions that you know will never be answered!

It's just a thread on a forum, not even real.

Chill.

[Neeranam]

okay here's the deal...my friend works as a waiter at a small restaurant here in pattaya. his salary is like B150 a day plus tips (another B30-B40 a day). so total salary is around B200 a day. now, he tells me he pays B100 return to take a moto taxi to and from work. that is 50% of his daily salary. now, his room is on a direct sontow route to the restaurant. when i ask why he doesn't take the songtow for B5 or B10 each way (total cost B10-20 per day or 10-20% of his current commute cost) he says he might be late for work. i didn't even point out the logical step of starting out a little earlier to make sure you get to work on time if taking the public songtow.

he then wonders if he should buy his own motocike (has to be a Mio as they are so naaraak) for B40,000 to cut his commute costs

My mate just spent 100,000 pounds on a car, and he only gets 100,000 a year and he's not Thai.

My other mate lives in a 1,000,000 pound home, costing him half his income every month.

Scottish logic

[Samuian]

OP gets off on Superiority of the "western logic"

it is always the same, people who pretend to know,

know nothing,

that is why they pretend it in the first place.

Ahhh, well.....

[game4shame]

my 'thai logic' experience:

I was out for a drink in samui with a mate. I nip off to the 7/11 to get some credit for my phone (B100).

when I come back my mate mentions he needs credit too, so he nips off. he comes back and says 7/11 don't have any vouchers left. I asked how much he wanted because I just bought B100 and seemed to be plenty left. he wanted B300.

we finish the drinks and head back to 7/11.

my mate asks again - ''can I have B300 dtac please?''

7/11 girl (complete with blank face and obviously puzzled as to why he's asking again) - ''no have''

me - ''B100?''

7/11 girl - ''have''

my mate wasn't offered the B100 the first time he went in - just greeted with the blank ''no have'' face/reply.

that story isn't a dig. we found it hilarious tbh (in a good way).

okay here's the deal...my friend works as a waiter at a small restaurant here in pattaya. his salary is like B150 a day plus tips (another B30-B40 a day). so total salary is around B200 a day. now, he tells me he pays B100 return to take a moto taxi to and from work. that is 50% of his daily salary. now, his room is on a direct sontow route to the restaurant. when i ask why he doesn't take the songtow for B5 or B10 each way (total cost B10-20 per day or 10-20% of his current commute cost) he says he might be late for work. i didn't even point out the logical step of starting out a little earlier to make sure you get to work on time if taking the public songtow.

he then wonders if he should buy his own motocike (has to be a Mio as they are so naaraak) for B40,000 to cut his commute costs

My mate just spent 100,000 pounds on a car, and he only gets 100,000 a year and he's not Thai.

My other mate lives in a 1,000,000 pound home, costing him half his income every month.

Scottish logic

that's not scottish logic - that's just the ridiculous state of the scottish property market.

[thaiman]

i didn't even point out the logical step of starting out a little earlier to make sure you get to work on time if taking the public songtow.

Good you didn't because his head would've exploded!

[meadish_sweetball]

It's true a lot of people here are not good with planning or money management, but as thaihome said above it's more about education and development.

There's plenty of people back in my old hometown who display the same lack of money management skills. And chances are they even had better examples around them to learn from when growing up. What's their excuse?

Many Thais who grow up in rural environments or in poor sections of the cities have parents who may have only 3-6 years of schooling. This is not the most likely birth environment to land them jobs as investment fund managers as adults.

[WaiWai]

You don't think he is simply hinting that you help him buy a motorbike ?

[candoman89]

Another example of Thai Logic.

I asked two engineers to give me a quote for a project. I gave them the design parameters (what was needed) and said I wanted a good quality (i.e. western standard with actual quality assurance/quality control checkers) product.

They said what is your budget??

I said the budget is whatever is needed to do the job.

They said "how can you do a project without a budget" I said that I NEEDED THEIR quotes to set the budget.

They could not understand the logic there.

[roietjimmy]

Another thread dedicated to generalizations and bashing of the Thai people.

Do you guys get off on this?

I don't see any bashing going on. Just a good humoured discussion.

The lack of applied Western logic is one of the things that makes Thailand such a great place (sometimes!).

How do you define western logic? Is there such a thing as 'western logic'. If so then is there such a thing as 'eastern logic'? What are the differences?

Where is the west by the way? Do you think there is such a place as 'the far east'?

As a young student in Canada many years ago, it sure confused me when the teacher referred to Japan bring in the "far east"!

[WaiWai]

Being a "Western" person is interesting for Australians, too; especially for those from the East coast.

[Acquiesce]

Scottish logic

Inverness McDonalds drive through ask for 12 chicken nuggets get the reply sorry we only do 6, 10 or 20.

What a McIdiot.

[game4shame]

Scottish logic

Inverness McDonalds drive through ask for 12 chicken nuggets get the reply sorry we only do 6, 10 or 20.

highlands & islands - I'll put it nicely.......a special breed.

What a McIdiot.

[geriatrickid]

I don't think it's any different than in the west. You need only look at the current subprime real estate meltdown in the USA to see that. Poverty in modern developed societies shares similar causes. We just see more of it here because we are more likely to come across these people than we would in the west. Face it, how many expats would walk through the poor neighborhoods back home or even talk to the inhabitants?

[WaiWai]

High-context cultures (including much of the Middle East, Asia, Africa, and South America) are relational, collectivist, intuitive, and contemplative. This means that people in these cultures emphasize interpersonal relationships. Developing trust is an important first step to any business transaction. According to Hall, these cultures are collectivist, preferring group harmony and consensus to individual achievement. And people in these cultures are less governed by reason than by intuition or feelings. Words are not so important as context, which might include the speaker’s tone of voice, facial expression, gestures, posture—and even the person’s family history and status. A Japanese manager explained his culture’s communication style to an American: “We are a homogeneous people and don’t have to speak as much as you do here. When we say one word, we understand ten, but here you have to say ten to understand one.” High-context communication tends to be more indirect and more formal. Flowery language, humility, and elaborate apologies are typical.

Low-context cultures (including North America and much of Western Europe) are logical, linear, individualistic, and action-oriented. People from low-context cultures value logic, facts, and directness. Solving a problem means lining up the facts and evaluating one after another. Decisions are based on fact rather than intuition. Discussions end with actions. And communicators are expected to be straightforward, concise, and efficient in telling what action is expected. To be absolutely clear, they strive to use precise words and intend them to be taken literally. Explicit contracts conclude negotiations. This is very different from communicators in high-context cultures who depend less on language precision and legal documents. High-context business people may even distrust contracts and be offended by the lack of trust they suggest.

Education plays a part, but I do believe there are culturally-determined differences.

And the above does not conflict with my initial reaction i.e. he's hoping the OP will help him buy a motorcycle/offer financial aid.

Edited October 9, 2007 by WaiWai

[Naam]

If so then is there such a thing as 'eastern logic'?

no, there isn't. case closed

[ZukiSuzuki]

Another thread dedicated to generalizations and bashing of the Thai people.

Do you guys get off on this?

I don't see any bashing going on. Just a good humoured discussion.

The lack of applied Western logic is one of the things that makes Thailand such a great place (sometimes!).

How do you define western logic? Is there such a thing as 'western logic'. If so then is there such a thing as 'eastern logic'? What are the differences?

Where is the west by the way? Do you think there is such a place as 'the far east'?

Of course there is such a thing as Western Logic. It all started with a man called Aristotle.

In Western thought, systematic logic is considered to have begun with Aristotle's collection of treatises, the Organon [tool]. Aristotle introduced the use of variables: While his contemporaries illustrated principles by the use of examples, Aristotle generalized, as in: All x are y; all y are z; therefore, all x are z. Aristotle posited three laws as basic to all valid thought: the law of identity, A is A; the law of contradiction, A cannot be both A and not A; and the law of the excluded middle, A must be either A or not A.

Aristotle believed that any logical argument could be reduced to a standard form, known as a syllogism. A syllogism is a sequence of three propositions: two premises and the conclusion. By varying the form of the proposition and the modifiers (such as all, no, and some), a few specific forms may be delimited. Although Aristotle was concerned with problems in modal logic and other minor branches, it is usually agreed that his major contribution in the field of logic was his elaboration of syllogistic logic; indeed, the Aristotelian statement of logic held sway in the Western world for 2,000 years. Nonetheless, various logicians did, during that time, take issue with parts of Aristotle's thought.

Educate yourself further by clicking here

emperor, emperor, emperor, you sadly let yourself down, i was expecting a better retort and now i'm disapointed, i know you can do so much better than that so why not 'google' a little longer before your next effort.

What was your responce supposed to prove? It's simply one persons attempt to understand and explain what he believes is the way that the logical thought process works. I hope your not in some way trying to imply that the logical thought process was somehow 'invented', if this is the case you have slipped way down in my estimations of you.

Do you think that Aristotles ramblings (statement) about the logical thought process is somehow simply only refering to a certain group of people? i.e. A certain group of people distinguishable by geographical location of birth? or maybe you think it's refering only to a certain race or races of people. Ah haa, your 'western logic'. I personaly got the impression he was reffering to the human brain in general and had given no though of race, skin colour or geographical location but maybe thats just my 'Eastern logic'.

I stand by statement, there is no such thing as 'Western logic'.

I would still like to know if you still think there is a place called the 'far East' also.

Take care.

Zuki