Guys this post is addressed to all members of Bedlam. It is not official nor directed to anyone in particular.

Recently we have had several threads regarding missing members and similar. I participated in those threads and gave some explanation about the moderation process to help everyone understand more about how it works.

Sadly I have just read that several members have overnight been warned and suspended for comments about moderators, moderation, and decisions made by moderators. I feel that I am partly the blame for not stopping the discussion from the outset. If I had stopped it then and not allowed it to continue these people would be posting now.

Please understand the following:

Bedlam has more latitude but is still moderated.

Flagrant disregard for the rules will be punished.

Please do not get yourself punished for what you may regard as a joke post.

thanks

CB

Thanks.

Fair enough.

Cool!

Guys this post is addressed to all members of Bedlam. It is not official nor directed to anyone in particular.

Recently we have had several threads regarding missing members and similar. I participated in those threads and gave some explanation about the moderation process to help everyone understand more about how it works.

Sadly I have just read that several members have overnight been warned and suspended for comments about moderators, moderation, and decisions made by moderators. I feel that I am partly the blame for not stopping the discussion from the outset. If I had stopped it then and not allowed it to continue these people would be posting now.

Please understand the following:

Bedlam has more latitude but is still moderated.

Flagrant disregard for the rules will be punished.

Please do not get yourself punished for what you may regard as a joke post.

thanks

CB

OK, thanks. Maybe this would be an apt time, perhaps, to explain why there is a ban on all discussion of moderation? I think perhaps the reason many people break this rule is because they don't see the reasoning behind it.

Flagrant disregard for the rules will be punished.

I've always had a problem with people with this attitude.I suppose it started at school.

CB,there are ways to tell people.Telling them they will be punished is complete crap.Adults post on this forum, no?

If I had stopped it then and not allowed it to continue these people would be posting now.

I noticed some of the posts and I feel I need my backside kicked for prolonging a particular thread, I should have opened a new one, however discussion was tacitly approved and this is what happens.

Status Quo now achieved.

Moss

Thanks for the explanation CB. It would seem the best way to avoid this type of potential unpleasantness is to steer clear of the subject totally, at least for a while. Perhaps where something contentious does arise, people could be requested to seek clarification from a mod by way of PM rather than on the open forum? I, for one, would like to see Bedlam reconstruct rather than destruct.

OK, thanks. Maybe this would be an apt time, perhaps, to explain why there is a ban on all discussion of moderation? I think perhaps the reason many people break this rule is because they don't see the reasoning behind it.

Fair point

The reason all discussion and comment is not allowed was in response to past experience. Threads were being bogged down by some members arguing the call with the moderator instead of moving on. It is similar to a football game. To keep the game flowing for the enjoyment of the majority it is necessary to not allow a handful of players from arguing the point on the field.. Sometimes that means an "unfortunate call" is given but that is the nature of the game.

CB

OK, thanks. Maybe this would be an apt time, perhaps, to explain why there is a ban on all discussion of moderation? I think perhaps the reason many people break this rule is because they don't see the reasoning behind it.

Fair point

The reason all discussion and comment is not allowed was in response to past experience. Threads were being bogged down by some members arguing the call with the moderator instead of moving on. It is similar to a football game. To keep the game flowing for the enjoyment of the majority it is necessary to not allow a handful of players from arguing the point on the field.. Sometimes that means an "unfortunate call" is given but that is the nature of the game.

CB

OK, thanks for your response: I can see how it could turn into a bit of a circus if people were always arguing the toss over every mod decision made.

I can't say that I never get frustrated, but I think that otherwise, the moderators would constantly be matching wits with those who enjoy matching wits simply to prove how clever they are. It is a lot easier to just make the moderator's decisions (somewhat) final.

It is similar to a football game. To keep the game flowing for the enjoyment of the majority it is necessary to not allow a handful of players from arguing the point on the field.. Sometimes that means an "unfortunate call" is given but that is the nature of the game.

CB

I like that analogy

I suppose a suspension is similar to the ref making you go back 10 yards and banning is a red card.

I suppose a suspension is similar to the ref making you go back 10 yards and banning is a red card.

Well, no because if you get a red card you're only banned for 1 match, plus ordered to leave the pitch for the match being played at the time. Here, when you're banned, you're out for life unless you come back under a new IP and new nickname.

So being made to go back 10 yards is like a PM from a mod saying "this isn't a warning, but...", a yellow card is like an official warning and a red card is like a suspension. To get the equivalent of being banned here you'd probably have to head-butt the ref, start an 11 player brawl and punch the opposing team's manager in the face. Even then, you'd probably only be banned for a couple of years, you might have to do more than that to gt a lifetime ban...

Flagrant disregard for the rules will be punished.

I've always had a problem with people with this attitude.I suppose it started at school...

“Punished” may seem a strong word but I think this later post by Crow Boy explains it splendidly.

I believe it was discussed in another bedlam topic a short while ago. Moderation action – to use a politically correct term – comes in various degrees:

– warning only

– warning with temporary suspension of posting rights

– warning with a temporary suspension of account

– permanent suspension of account ---> ban

...I think perhaps the reason many people break this rule is because they don't see the reasoning behind it.

My feeling is that the reason is that many people do not read the forum rules, or if they did read them when signing up they forgot this particular rule about not discussing moderation issues. The good thing about ThaiVisa is that there is no absolute prohibition; just don’t do it in a forum but instead PM a moderator or administrator. From the forum rules:

5) Discussion of moderation issues, actions or moderation policies concerning individual cases are not allowed in the forums. Such comments should be directed to a moderator or administrator, and not discussed on the forum.

It does make sense, doesn’t it , that a member should not derail a topic with a discussion about a moderation action of which he was the subject. In fact, reading the rules one will find that they all make perfect sense and that one is in no danger of violating any of them if one applies common sense.

--

Maestro

I guess most of us here thought of Bedlam as a place further advanced, more mature (more adult if you will), and populated by long term, committed members of Thaivisa.

The level of discussion of the taboo subject, in my opinion, hasn't been over the top and remained generally respectable to management and members alike (maybe I've missed things that have been said outside these guidelines?) I, and I'm sure most here, wouldn't post the same discussions and questions in the general forum as we are well aware of the rules, and of the way things can get out of hand with the general membership and the many trolls there.

Bedlam, as the private forum for members who have gained large post counts and remained loyal to Thaivisa over a period of time, needs something to set it apart from the herd, so to speak. Members here deserve a little more latitude to discuss the occassional contensious subject and view the occasional saucy pic or joke, etc, to raise the interest level of what is the exclusive forum.

We don't deserve to be spoken to like we're a bunch of naughty schoolchildren and perhaps respect is a two way thing. We don't have titles, but we are people too.

If management really wants to choke the life out of Bedlam then why not just merge it with "Pub" and be done with it?

I guess most of us here thought of Bedlam as a place further advanced, more mature (more adult if you will), and populated by long term, committed members of Thaivisa.

The level of discussion of the taboo subject, in my opinion, hasn't been over the top and remained generally respectable to management and members alike (maybe I've missed things that have been said outside these guidelines?) I, and I'm sure most here, wouldn't post the same discussions and questions in the general forum as we are well aware of the rules, and of the way things can get out of hand with the general membership and the many trolls there.

Bedlam, as the private forum for members who have gained large post counts and remained loyal to Thaivisa over a period of time, needs something to set it apart from the herd, so to speak. Members here deserve a little more latitude to discuss the occassional contensious subject and view the occasional saucy pic or joke, etc, to raise the interest level of what is the exclusive forum.

We don't deserve to be spoken to like we're a bunch of naughty schoolchildren and perhaps respect is a two way thing. We don't have titles, but we are people too.

If management really wants to choke the life out of Bedlam then why not just merge it with "Pub" and be done with it?

Agreed, and often I think the "ultimate taboo" (ThaiVisa Lesse Mageste?) gets enforced a bit too strictly sometimes. The mere mention of moderation and a thread can be closed; yet other breaches of the rules are noted, perhaps posts deleted, but the thread still continues. Why such a large emphasis on this rule when, after all, the worst that can happen if it's broken is that a thread gets bulked out with irrelevant argumentative posts? It's not like some of the other rules which, if broken, could jeopardize the forum and it's currently not-banned-by-the-ICT status.

Bedlam, as the private forum for members who have gained large post counts and remained loyal to Thaivisa over a period of time,

On that I have to disagree.

What is the largest thread on TV, the most viewed with the most posts? ....... hardly an intellectual discussion is it.

Add to that the Jokes forum, where a couple of TV members have just happily copied and pasted half a dozen jokes sampled from the internet every day..... I'm quite pleased to be included in the ranks of "I've made loads of posts".... not.

I can easily understand why the 'three word story' threads are allowed to live..... clicks count..... but that has to be the sole reason to allow those topics and contributors (who do nothing else) to continue.

I thoroughly enjoy being a member of 47 and I am loyal to TV, but post count has very little to do with that.

Hey Guys, maybe we are getting a bit too heavy here. Take the op at face value. How would it have been better worded? We are (on the whole) a happy bunch here in 47 and this post was just a reminder of the facts of the situation. It wasn't directed at any particular individual. And let's face it, we all push the envelope a bit, don't we?

Personally, I agree with the no discussion of Mod issues, as has been stated earlier, you will get the guy's who just want to pick a fight and on the one occasion in 50 that they actually score, it will be plastered all over this forum and others, faster than ships can travel in Hyper Space.

Also and again this has been stated already, threads would just get bogged down in potless and senseless diatribe and leave little room for the intellectual debate like The Last Word

The good thing about ThaiVisa is that there is no absolute prohibition; just don’t do it in a forum but instead PM a moderator or administrator. From the forum rules:

Can I have clarification here Maestro please.

If there is a topic that a Member would like to bring to a MOD/ADMINs notice and they do it in a courteous, non confrontational manner, this should receive an answer, if not sanction.

Thanks

Moss

Flagrant disregard for the rules will be punished.

Hey Guys, maybe we are getting a bit too heavy here. Take the op at face value. How would it have been better worded?

I agree, this is one area where PC certainly would have had no place, make it clear, make it up front and without any margin of misinterpretation, allowing for the , 'I am the Hard Done By Brigade',

It is clear, MOD Issues not to be discussed! Put it in a PM.

If anybody wants a rant, PM me, I'll put it the other, 'rants against me Folder', Labelled IGNORE.

Moss

Nice one Moss!

Thanks for this thread, CB.

Personally speaking, the only things I have ever addressed here as a mod were:

1. Anti-gay comments

2. Anti-mod comments

3. OTT posts on moderation

The former are mercifully few, as you folks are actually a pretty cool bunch. Unfortunately, the latter two have become popular among a FEW select individuals in the last few weeks. I am looking forward- once these classes of comments cease- to pretty much ignoring the madness here once more.

Thanks to all for your understanding and cooperation.

"S"

Oh good!

Flagrant disregard for the rules will be punished.

I've always had a problem with people with this attitude.I suppose it started at school.

CB,there are ways to tell people.Telling them they will be punished is complete crap.Adults post on this forum, no?

I look at TV's mods as something akin to sergeants in the Army. You don't question their intelligence. You don't question their authority. You don't question one of their orders. As I used to tell my troops, "Your's is not to question why. Your's is only to hit the ground and give me 20...."

One fact lads hard to dispute is that the rules of the game are quite clearly defined and as the old joke goes " If you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have joined ".

There are other forums where you can rant, rave, and flame to your hearts content. The good folk of Bedders choose to stay here, where we can indulge in lunacy without any of the above ( well not too much ).

Why moan and complain about a set of rules you accepted on joining ? Contribute to the administrative burden of the forum and then perhaps you can change the dictatorship from within. If you are not prepared to do the work, just ease back and basque ( as in wear the twin set ) in the glow of our beloved resident despots

Bedlam, as the private forum for members who have gained large post counts and remained loyal to Thaivisa over a period of time,

On that I have to disagree.

What is the largest thread on TV, the most viewed with the most posts? ....... hardly an intellectual discussion is it.

Add to that the Jokes forum, where a couple of TV members have just happily copied and pasted half a dozen jokes sampled from the internet every day..... I'm quite pleased to be included in the ranks of "I've made loads of posts".... not.

I can easily understand why the 'three word story' threads are allowed to live..... clicks count..... but that has to be the sole reason to allow those topics and contributors (who do nothing else) to continue.

I thoroughly enjoy being a member of 47 and I am loyal to TV, but post count has very little to do with that.

Once again Thaddeus you have jumped on a minor point of mine and made it into a mountain.

I mentioned high post counts as they are the criteria for entry to Bedlam and you usually need to be a long term member to gain that high post count. However, I agree, there are many for whom the big numbers are everything and they don't care how they get them. I was not suggesting that members who rack up 50 or more one liner or smilie posts a day, every day, deserve all respect for that fact alone.

(Of course virtually all have been a post whore occasionally, but some make a living from it!)

The key words in that sentence of mine that you have isolated are: remained loyal to Thaivisa over a period of time. These people deserve some respect also, which was my post's main point which you have virtually ignored.

One fact lads hard to dispute is that the rules of the game are quite clearly defined and as the old joke goes " If you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have joined ".

There are other forums where you can rant, rave, and flame to your hearts content. The good folk of Bedders choose to stay here, where we can indulge in lunacy without any of the above ( well not too much ).

Why moan and complain about a set of rules you accepted on joining ? Contribute to the administrative burden of the forum and then perhaps you can change the dictatorship from within. If you are not prepared to do the work, just ease back and basque ( as in wear the twin set ) in the glow of our beloved resident despots

I suppose I could argue, suiging, that the rules changed dramatically in Bedlam after I joined and along with it the whole atmosphere of the place.

However, there were some very good reasons why things had to change, I'm just hoping for a reasonable balance to be re-established.

Hey Guys, maybe we are getting a bit too heavy here. Take the op at face value. How would it have been better worded? We are (on the whole) a happy bunch here in 47 and this post was just a reminder of the facts of the situation. It wasn't directed at any particular individual. And let's face it, we all push the envelope a bit, don't we?

I have no issues with the OP.

All will be well, just as long as the Mighty Eagles crap on the Crows next weekend.

Bedlam, as the private forum for members who have gained large post counts and remained loyal to Thaivisa over a period of time,

On that I have to disagree.

What is the largest thread on TV, the most viewed with the most posts? ....... hardly an intellectual discussion is it.

Add to that the Jokes forum, where a couple of TV members have just happily copied and pasted half a dozen jokes sampled from the internet every day..... I'm quite pleased to be included in the ranks of "I've made loads of posts".... not.

I can easily understand why the 'three word story' threads are allowed to live..... clicks count..... but that has to be the sole reason to allow those topics and contributors (who do nothing else) to continue.

I thoroughly enjoy being a member of 47 and I am loyal to TV, but post count has very little to do with that.

Once again Thaddeus you have jumped on a minor point of mine and made it into a mountain.

I mentioned high post counts as they are the criteria for entry to Bedlam and you usually need to be a long term member to gain that high post count. However, I agree, there are many for whom the big numbers are everything and they don't care how they get them. I was not suggesting that members who rack up 50 or more one liner or smilie posts a day, every day, deserve all respect for that fact alone.

(Of course virtually all have been a post whore occasionally, but some make a living from it!)

The key words in that sentence of mine that you have isolated are: remained loyal to Thaivisa over a period of time. These people deserve some respect also, which was my post's main point which you have virtually ignored.

Apologies OC, I only quoted that part of your post because I pretty much agreed with the rest of it.

Same with me. I was referring to the whole of TV, not just Bedders. Sorry for any confusion.