Another Gay Scandal Brewing

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Unbelievably, for the second time this year, 'Gay Nathee' the gay- political-activist, is all over the television condemning a gay event in Chiang Mai. This time it is the October opening of the Lavender Lanna Hotel on Hua Rin Moat Corner. http://news.mthai.com/general-news/57179.html

Apparently this hotel is going to ruin Chiang Mai culture. Thai web forums are full of nasty homophobic nonsense.

[john b good]

Pim, when you wrote that something was "brewing" I thought that there must be a new beer coming on the market

But now I realise that you were referring to something much more serious.

The red shirts will have a field day protesting at the opening of this new hotel and showing all and sundry how they are protecting the morals of the country.

That woman you recently interviewed will be to the forefront demonstrating her brain dead views.

You might have provided a translation for the link (:-))

Edited September 17, 2009 by john b good

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Sorry, it is deadline time, so I dont' have time to do a transcript! Suffice to say he is very condemning about the hotel and speculating wildly about it ruining culture, etc.

[john b good]

Sorry, it is deadline time, so I dont' have time to do a transcript! Suffice to say he is very condemning about the hotel and speculating wildly about it ruining culture, etc.

I realise that Pim and I guess that I had reached the conclusion that this hotel is gonna be real bad for Chiang Mai

But with your deadline pushing you how come you have the time to be responding so quickly.

I mean I don't have deadlines and you have.

Keep up the good (great) work you guys are doing there at City Life Chiang Mai. I look forward to getting it every month

[Chunkton]

I would imagine a new gay hotel would be greeted warmly by many here, can't imagine how anyone could suggest it isn't indicative of Lanna culture as many like to interpret it. The Lavender Lanna Hotel right on the moat, very tasteful, seems perfect to me. Don't doubt King Mengrai would approve.

[lannarebirth]

Sorry, it is deadline time, so I dont' have time to do a transcript! Suffice to say he is very condemning about the hotel and speculating wildly about it ruining culture, etc.

I don't think they have an issue with gays really do they? They've had gay Prime Ministers, tons of openly gay monks, celebrities, etc. It seem the gist of the clip is that they thought it might be a little to risque? Too raunchy?

Most everything is tolerated here to a point if it's not tooo public. Or did I misunderstand the clip?

[BlackArtemis]

I would imagine a new gay hotel would be greeted warmly by many here, can't imagine how anyone could suggest it isn't indicative of Lanna culture as many like to interpret it. The Lavender Lanna Hotel right on the moat, very tasteful, seems perfect to me. Don't doubt King Mengrai would approve.

Sadly it might be warmly greeting by opposing forces, and by warmly I mean with Molotov's. No stop to the level of depravity that some will sink to. I pray that I am wrong though.

[piercefilmlid]

Sorry, it is deadline time, so I dont' have time to do a transcript! Suffice to say he is very condemning about the hotel and speculating wildly about it ruining culture, etc.

I don't think they have an issue with gays really do they? They've had gay Prime Ministers, tons of openly gay monks, celebrities, etc. It seem the gist of the clip is that they thought it might be a little to risque? Too raunchy?

Most everything is tolerated here to a point if it's not tooo public. Or did I misunderstand the clip?

I agree with the lannarebirth, and this is also the view of my tgf.

There are other gay venues in CM of which we have been to a couple and had a great evening.

From the gay people I know, they seem to network very well and know which joints to go to without the need for over the top publicity.

Regards

[IanForbes]

Who really cares? How some company chooses to market their hotel or business is up to them. It will succeed or fail on their decisions and the direction they want to take. One of the great things about Thailand is the relative freedom that people have to make decisions on their own. You can live or die by those decisions. Once you understand that you aren't going to get any support from the establishment then the better off you will be. If the company wants to market a homosexual hotel, and there are enough homosexuals to support the hotel, then they will be successful. If not then they'll have to go in a different direction.

[Jingthing]

Who really cares? How some company chooses to market their hotel or business is up to them. It will succeed or fail on their decisions and the direction they want to take. One of the great things about Thailand is the relative freedom that people have to make decisions on their own. You can live or die by those decisions. Once you understand that you aren't going to get any support from the establishment then the better off you will be. If the company wants to market a homosexual hotel, and there are enough homosexuals to support the hotel, then they will be successful. If not then they'll have to go in a different direction.

That would be a very bad business decision indeed to market it as a homosexual hotel. It is a GAY hotel. Big diff marketing wise, trust me on that ...

[KevinHunt]

 It is a GAY hotel. Big diff marketing wise, trust me on that ...

I trust you.

And since you seem to understand the subleties of marketing, maybe you can explain to me. What is a GAY hotel? Do they allow un-gay people in or is being GAY compulsory? I've never heard of heterosexual hotels, so I'm surprised to hear that GAY hotels exist. I must be getting old.

The reason I ask is that I have a pub here, and we serve anyone (except Riff Raff, of course). Am I behind the times? Maybe I should be more discriminating. Is the pink pound the way to go?

Edited September 17, 2009 by KevinHunt

[Jingthing]

 It is a GAY hotel. Big diff marketing wise, trust me on that ...

I trust you.

And since you seem to understand the subleties of marketing, maybe you can explain to me. What is a GAY hotel? Do they allow un-gay people in or is being GAY compulsory? I've never heard of heterosexual hotels, so I'm surprised to hear that GAY hotels exist. I must be getting old.

The reason I ask is that I have a pub here, and we serve anyone (except Riff Raff, of course). Am I behind the times? Maybe I should be more discriminating. Is the pink pound the way to go?

Hey Buddy, I ain't gonna touch that one with a 10 foot d---o ...

Edited September 17, 2009 by Jingthing

[cmsally]

Is it just my imagination; aren't the people demonstrating against the hotel also gay.

I believe they also demonstrated against the parade.

From what I can see most people couldn't give a toss, looks more like conflict of interest within the gay community, which is the same as any other community and unlikely to be a homogenous group.

[ignis]

I've never heard of heterosexual hotels

See 1,000's of Family Hotel, Family Run, Hotel, B&B, Guest House, sound like heterosexual hotels to me ?

[IanForbes]

Who really cares? How some company chooses to market their hotel or business is up to them. It will succeed or fail on their decisions and the direction they want to take. One of the great things about Thailand is the relative freedom that people have to make decisions on their own. You can live or die by those decisions. Once you understand that you aren't going to get any support from the establishment then the better off you will be. If the company wants to market a homosexual hotel, and there are enough homosexuals to support the hotel, then they will be successful. If not then they'll have to go in a different direction.

That would be a very bad business decision indeed to market it as a homosexual hotel. It is a GAY hotel. Big diff marketing wise, trust me on that ...

Although I agree with you, I chose my words intentionally, Jingthing. I have a bit of a personal gripe with the word "Gay" being chosen to now replace the perfectly acceptible word "homosexual". Until relatively recently, "Gay" was considered to mean happy, or joyous. "Gay" also some people's last or first name. It would be similar if alcoholics or drug addicts started calling themselves "Mother" or "Beautiful", and then have everyone else try to re-adjust their lives to suit a specific group of people that others don't want to be associated with.

[piercefilmlid]

Who really cares? How some company chooses to market their hotel or business is up to them. It will succeed or fail on their decisions and the direction they want to take. One of the great things about Thailand is the relative freedom that people have to make decisions on their own. You can live or die by those decisions. Once you understand that you aren't going to get any support from the establishment then the better off you will be. If the company wants to market a homosexual hotel, and there are enough homosexuals to support the hotel, then they will be successful. If not then they'll have to go in a different direction.

That would be a very bad business decision indeed to market it as a homosexual hotel. It is a GAY hotel. Big diff marketing wise, trust me on that ...

Although I agree with you, I chose my words intentionally, Jingthing. I have a bit of a personal gripe with the word "Gay" being chosen to now replace the perfectly acceptible word "homosexual". Until relatively recently, "Gay" was considered to mean happy, or joyous. "Gay" also some people's last or first name. It would be similar if alcoholics or drug addicts started calling themselves "Mother" or "Beautiful", and then have everyone else try to re-adjust their lives to suit a specific group of people that others don't want to be associated with.

Fair point, Ian.

Anyway, a "gay" couple I know who visit CM stay at the Tamarind, without any fuss or labelling.

Anyone given Peter Tatchell a call about this?

Edited September 18, 2009 by piercefilmlid

[Thakkar]

<snip>

it.If the company wants to market a homosexual hotel, and there are enough homosexuals to support the hotel, then they will be successful. If not then they'll have to go in a different direction.

That would be a very bad business decision indeed to market it as a homosexual hotel. It is a GAY hotel. Big diff marketing wise, trust me on that ...

Although I agree with you, I chose my words intentionally, Jingthing. I have a bit of a personal gripe with the word "Gay" being chosen to now replace the perfectly acceptible word "homosexual". Until relatively recently, "Gay" was considered to mean happy, or joyous. "Gay" also some people's last or first name. It would be similar if alcoholics or drug addicts started calling themselves "Mother" or "Beautiful", and then have everyone else try to re-adjust their lives to suit a specific group of people that others don't want to be associated with.

I too once found it lamentable, this appropriation of a wonderful word that meant carefree and cheerful but is now rarely used in such context. Imagine the double entendre, if you will, in the sentence: 'they went at it with gay abandon.'

But such is language, at least if it is to remain a living language. The appropriation began decades ago and is now complete. I have accepted it and moved on.

When one thinks of the fear, persecution and stigmatization under which gays lived in decades past and the fact that words have the power to change minds, it's easy to understand this appropriation and to not begrudge it.

[Donnyboy]

so is this a case of Red shirts vs Pink shirts or err Lavender in this case?

[CLASBYCLAN]

I don't really understand why anyone would be protesting about the opening of this venue, I've seen them advertising as having live shows, that combined with being gay friendly is surely great for tourism. If people don't like the gay thang (sorry to belittle anyones sexuality), then surely Chiang Mai isn't the place for them to be living.

Does anyone know the actual opening date/party, I want to show my support and PARTY!

[PeaceBlondie]

Although I agree with you, I chose my words intentionally, Jingthing. I have a bit of a personal gripe with the word "Gay" being chosen to now replace the perfectly acceptible word "homosexual". Until relatively recently, "Gay" was considered to mean happy, or joyous. "Gay" also some people's last or first name. It would be similar if alcoholics or drug addicts started calling themselves "Mother" or "Beautiful", and then have everyone else try to re-adjust their lives to suit a specific group of people that others don't want to be associated with.

Nah; bogus argument by the man in Shitish Columbia. Homosexual is a word made up by straight people only 150 years ago. It is a long phony Greek-Latin-Anglish word used as part of the anti-same-sex homophobic unholy Crusade. It quickly became an N word against men who love to love men.

[DavidOxon]

Although I agree with you, I chose my words intentionally, Jingthing. I have a bit of a personal gripe with the word "Gay" being chosen to now replace the perfectly acceptible word "homosexual". Until relatively recently, "Gay" was considered to mean happy, or joyous. "Gay" also some people's last or first name. It would be similar if alcoholics or drug addicts started calling themselves "Mother" or "Beautiful", and then have everyone else try to re-adjust their lives to suit a specific group of people that others don't want to be associated with.

Nah; bogus argument by the man in Shitish Columbia. Homosexual is a word made up by straight people only 150 years ago. It is a long phony Greek-Latin-Anglish word used as part of the anti-same-sex homophobic unholy Crusade. It quickly became an N word against men who love to love men.

Peacie darling, totally understand where you're coming from, BUT!, you can't use that argument!

Quote

Psychologist George Weinberg invented the word "homophobia" in his book "Society and the Healthy Individual," published in 1972 or 1975 (sources differ)

so much newer, same number of letters and same number of syllables! (sic)

David

[Jingthing]

 It is a GAY hotel. Big diff marketing wise, trust me on that ...

I trust you.

And since you seem to understand the subleties of marketing, maybe you can explain to me. What is a GAY hotel? Do they allow un-gay people in or is being GAY compulsory? I've never heard of heterosexual hotels, so I'm surprised to hear that GAY hotels exist. I must be getting old.

The reason I ask is that I have a pub here, and we serve anyone (except Riff Raff, of course). Am I behind the times? Maybe I should be more discriminating. Is the pink pound the way to go?

You could start serving, poof pastry, navy cake and spotted dick, than see what turns up.

I think if that lot turn up at your restaurant, the riff raff may seem like a breath of fresh air.

Yes, it seems these days that Chiang Mai is where all the gays are going for their hols.

Anyway, I’m off to Pattaya in a few days, where the real men go to sow their wild oats.

Oh wow, see you here in Pattaya, My Big Big Honey ...

I don't really care about the word gay but I do find the exaggerated outrage about its current use to be highly amusing (and hardly believable). Its just a bloody word. I have always wished URANIAN had caught on. Oh, well ...

Edited September 18, 2009 by Jingthing

[Maestro]

Unbelievably, for the second time this year, 'Gay Nathee' the gay- political-activist, is all over the television condemning a gay event in Chiang Mai...

I don’t know the Chiang Mai scene, but are not “activists” sometimes bad-mouthing something they consider to be in their field of expertise because they were not “consulted” about it, for a monetary reward, of course?

--

Maestro

[endure]

Unbelievably, for the second time this year, 'Gay Nathee' the gay- political-activist, is all over the television condemning a gay event in Chiang Mai...

I don’t know the Chiang Mai scene, but are not “activists” sometimes bad-mouthing something they consider to be in their field of expertise because they were not “consulted” about it, for a monetary reward, of course?

--

Maestro

Either that or just to keep their name in lights. What we need is more gay hotels and less gay activists.

[Jingthing]

Watch the great movie MILK and you will see there was a similar conservative force as represented by Khun Nhatee in the earlier days of the US gay rights movement. People should realize any subculture of people has legitimate internal conflicts. This kind of thing will all work itself out in the wash. There are issues here unique to Thailand and I don't see internal conflict among gay Thais as a bad thing.

http://www.fridae.com/newsfeatures/2009/02...nd-pride-parade

Edited September 18, 2009 by Jingthing

[endure]

 It is a GAY hotel. Big diff marketing wise, trust me on that ...

I trust you.

And since you seem to understand the subleties of marketing, maybe you can explain to me. What is a GAY hotel? Do they allow un-gay people in or is being GAY compulsory? I've never heard of heterosexual hotels, so I'm surprised to hear that GAY hotels exist. I must be getting old.

The reason I ask is that I have a pub here, and we serve anyone (except Riff Raff, of course). Am I behind the times? Maybe I should be more discriminating. Is the pink pound the way to go?

You could start serving, poof pastry, navy cake and spotted dick, than see what turns up.

Don't know about Jing but I prefer my dicks without spots, thanks.

[john b good]

I would imagine a new gay hotel would be greeted warmly by many here, can't imagine how anyone could suggest it isn't indicative of Lanna culture as many like to interpret it. The Lavender Lanna Hotel right on the moat, very tasteful, seems perfect to me. Don't doubt King Mengrai would approve.

Sadly it might be warmly greeting by opposing forces, and by warmly I mean with Molotov's. No stop to the level of depravity that some will sink to. I pray that I am wrong though.

Yes, "molotov's" in the hands of persons wearing red shirts

They (the CM faction) have already declared that they are the upholders and protectors of CM's "culture" whatever that might mean.

Edited September 19, 2009 by john b good

[john b good]

Who really cares? How some company chooses to market their hotel or business is up to them. It will succeed or fail on their decisions and the direction they want to take. One of the great things about Thailand is the relative freedom that people have to make decisions on their own. You can live or die by those decisions. Once you understand that you aren't going to get any support from the establishment then the better off you will be. If the company wants to market a homosexual hotel, and there are enough homosexuals to support the hotel, then they will be successful. If not then they'll have to go in a different direction.

That would be a very bad business decision indeed to market it as a homosexual hotel. It is a GAY hotel. Big diff marketing wise, trust me on that ...

Although I agree with you, I chose my words intentionally, Jingthing. I have a bit of a personal gripe with the word "Gay" being chosen to now replace the perfectly acceptible word "homosexual". Until relatively recently, "Gay" was considered to mean happy, or joyous. "Gay" also some people's last or first name. It would be similar if alcoholics or drug addicts started calling themselves "Mother" or "Beautiful", and then have everyone else try to re-adjust their lives to suit a specific group of people that others don't want to be associated with.

Agree entirely Ian. There is far too much of this PC bullshyt nowadays.

In fact if you google "political correctness" it comes up with 31.5 million pages and when reading some of them it can be found that "PC" was used by Hitler in the early thirties, and Mao Zedong during the cultural revolution. It wasn't called PC then but it was one and the same as they are preaching now.

One description of PC....

Specifically, there is an annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary

term:

This year's term was "Political Correctness."

The winner wrote:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

I guess we could start a new thread on PC

Edited September 19, 2009 by john b good

[Donnyboy]

This year's term was "Political Correctness."

The winner wrote:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

I guess we could start a new thread on PC

turd? it should be bowel movement!!

[PeaceBlondie]

Although I agree with you, I chose my words intentionally, Jingthing. I have a bit of a personal gripe with the word "Gay" being chosen to now replace the perfectly acceptible word "homosexual". Until relatively recently, "Gay" was considered to mean happy, or joyous. "Gay" also some people's last or first name. It would be similar if alcoholics or drug addicts started calling themselves "Mother" or "Beautiful", and then have everyone else try to re-adjust their lives to suit a specific group of people that others don't want to be associated with.

Nah; bogus argument by the man in Shitish Columbia. Homosexual is a word made up by straight people only 150 years ago. It is a long phony Greek-Latin-Anglish word used as part of the anti-same-sex homophobic unholy Crusade. It quickly became an N word against men who love to love men.

Peacie darling, totally understand where you're coming from, BUT!, you can't use that argument!

Quote

Psychologist George Weinberg invented the word "homophobia" in his book "Society and the Healthy Individual," published in 1972 or 1975 (sources differ)

so much newer, same number of letters and same number of syllables! (sic)

David

Sister David Darling,

Ian and I were discussing homosexual and you're discussing the far newer homophobia. We can use all arguments.

It's OK to correct bad politics.