Immigration Confirms The End Of Border Runs From Oct 1, 2006

[thohts]

A handful of friends and I are in the same boat as you guys. We visit Thailand much more than 3 times a year and stay for a week at a time and average at least 200K BHT per visit ... we can afford it. Too bad this had to happen but we'll abid by the decision of the country. We talked about visiting other ASEAN countries and I guess now we'll be actually visiting instead of talking about those visits. Good luck to LOS on their decision.

I'm with you on that one.. Thailand's a beautiful country, but I'm crossing it off my list. I'll have to find another country for my long-stay holidays.

[Thaiquila]

Doesn't take long to put your passport in a fedex bag and call for a pickup.

???????????

i dont understand you ! post my passport thats illegal isnt it ?

Sorry I should be more clear, I'm talking about people who travel to Thailand as tourists more than 3 times in 90 days and will run into problems with entry permits.

Those people can still come to the Kingdom, by gaining a tourist visa at home before they come.

that's what i'm thinking it is, too. its a crackdown on the 30 day visa runners, not on the people getting tourist visas (valid for 3 months, after extension) with a trip to Malaysia or another country.

We are all guessing about that. Lets see.

However, if the intention is to filter out illegal workers, lots of illegal workers go the tourist visa from Malaysia route as well. People doing this are still staying a very long time as "tourists" and if I was staying in Thailand like that, I wouldn't feel very comfortable now.

Edited September 11, 2006 by Thaiquila

[VanZam]

Doesn't take long to put your passport in a fedex bag and call for a pickup.

???????????

i dont understand you ! post my passport thats illegal isnt it ?

Sorry I should be more clear, I'm talking about people who travel to Thailand as tourists more than 3 times in 90 days and will run into problems with entry permits.

Those people can still come to the Kingdom, by gaining a tourist visa at home before they come.

that's what i'm thinking it is, too. its a crackdown on the 30 day visa runners, not on the people getting tourist visas (valid for 3 months, after extension) with a trip to Malaysia or another country.

I agree, but I would be surprised if they allow people to get back to back tourist visas by leaving for a couple of days every three months. As Cclub75 stated:- "So to sum' up : it's still the thai fog"

[kudroz]

If I'd be a running a Country - I'd sure want to control immigrants and tourists in my Country to a certain degree, I do not blame Thailand nor their officials for attempting to get things under more scrutinity and control. It would be a better thing if long-time stayers are dealt thru one channel; being the Thai embassies/consulates abroad.

I do not have a problem with the new rules - as long as they consider loosen up certain requirements on extension of stays for the non-imm visas, and maybe introduce a new type of visa for the people who wish to have a longstay but are under 50yo. The only options these people have is to invest money (bonds or real estate) or operating a business (which requires paid-up capital) - which many people are not interested to do.

These people under 50yo who want to have a longstay in Thailand are not neccesary interested into doing all sort of things like forming a business, or risking investment in Thailand. They just want to stay here and enjoy life for a while. (retirement before 50, pre-retirement, 2-3 years off work, trying a new way of life and using savings to do so, etc).

Telling these people that the only way to stay in Thailand is to invest money (real estate or bonds) or forming a business - is not practical.

They should consider having a new type of Non-Imm visa for people under 50yo who wants to live here for more than 3 months but are not interested in getting married, investing money or forming a business. They could ask these people to show 1M+ in a Thai bank account or something similar to verify these people have the means to support themselves.

But all in all, I think it's a good thing what they're doing - but I'd just appreciate if they would hear out a bunch of expat who falls under this under 50yo category, who wants to live here and spend money in living expenses but are not interested into investing nor operating a business.

Edited September 11, 2006 by kudroz

[Nikkijah]

slightly off-topic but this has to be the busiest threads I've come across, so many opinions and so many views, it's been open barely a day and has had 37,000 views. Whatever happens next with all of this is going to make BIG changes to so many peoples lives despite some thinking it will hardly even be noticed!

Edited September 11, 2006 by Nikkijah

[katnip]

If the motivation (or one motivation) behind the enforcement is to monitor incoming visitors more carefully, it could make sense to require the tourist visas, even if these could be aquired back-to-back.

[Thaiquila]

If the motivation (or one motivation) behind the enforcement is to monitor incoming visitors more carefully, it could make sense to require the tourist visas, even if these could be aquired back-to-back.

How do you figure? With visa runners, immigration sees you every 30 days. In what way are tourist visas increased monitoring?

[Big Dogster]

There will be much confusion:

For example; we already know that some airlines upon check-in scrutinise your passport for a valid visa, especially if travelling on a one-way ticket.

What will happen now:???

'Sorry Sir/Madam' you have already had 90 days in Thailand during the last six months, so your 3 week Christmas holiday in the L.O.S. is cancelled' we will not allow you to board the plane........

Like many people reading this, my passport is almost full of visa stamps/Laos/Cambodia visa runs etc. etc. Perhaps when I return to the U.K. next month (for 1 week); I will be bumped off my return flight to the L.O.S. by some jobsworth Emirates check-in staff (who does not understand the rules).

This is worrying.

Solid, very solid point

[pattaya_girl]

ere ere kudroz... you took the words right out of my mouth.

[Thaiquila]

ere ere kudroz... you took the words right out of my mouth.

I also agree there needs to be a long term visa for monied, non-working younger people. The easiest way would be to eliminate any age requirement for the retirement visa. Before, I said 30, but why not 18?

Edited September 11, 2006 by Thaiquila

[katnip]

How do you figure? With visa runners, immigration sees you every 30 days. In what way are tourist visas increased monitoring?

To get the tourist visa, you need to leave your passport with a Thai Embassy (or other office- ? I don't know all the options) for a day or two. I imagine some details are entered on the computer.

Is that not more pre- entry monitoring than is the case if you just get the on-arrival stamp ?

I am as much in the dark as everyone else, of course ... just a possibility that occurred to me.

Edited September 11, 2006 by katnip

[Thaiquila]

How do you figure? With visa runners, immigration sees you every 30 days. In what way are tourist visas increased monitoring?

To get the tourist visa, you need to leave your passport with a Thai Embassy (or other office- ? I don't know all the options) for a day or two. I imagine some details are entered on the computer.

Is that not more pre- entry monitoring than is the case if you just get the an-arrival stamp ?

I am as much in the dark as everyone else, of course ... just a possibility that occurred to me.

Perhaps they do, perhaps they don't.

In any case, don't expect the enforcement of granting serial tourists visa or not granting them to follow any kind of logic or consistency between consulates either.

[Big Dogster]

If the motivation (or one motivation) behind the enforcement is to monitor incoming visitors more carefully, it could make sense to require the tourist visas, even if these could be aquired back-to-back.

How do you figure? With visa runners, immigration sees you every 30 days. In what way are tourist visas increased monitoring?

I suspect that he is thinking that a consulate or embassy issuing the tourist visa will be more thorough and better equipped in examining the person applying for the visa than a border official

[kudroz]

How do you figure? With visa runners, immigration sees you every 30 days. In what way are tourist visas increased monitoring?

Simply because it requires the longstayers to obtain a visa, which is reviewed by an embassy/consulate abroad under policies that are set directly by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. They do review your application and each application is subject to approval.

They scrutinize your come-and-goes, and some other thing that they can do because they have more time and means to review your application than a clerk at a border who have very few things to check before it can stamp you an entry. It basically check of you are a national of the exempt countries, then it can ask you if you have 10,000 THB (or w/e it is) and that's basically it.

Having longstayers processed thru proper channels (embassy/consulate) makes more sense than having them being checked-up by a clerk at the border since there is more scrutinity to be employed for someone who wants to stay for an extended period of time, than some dude who wants to come in the country for 30 days.

[katnip]

I suspect that he is thinking that a consulate or embassy issuing the tourist visa will be more thorough and better equipped in examining the person applying for the visa than a border official

Correct, and the records might be better. If this has to do with questions being raised about how certain creepy characters were able to enter the country, it might make some sense.

Thaiquila - agree re consistency or lack thereof.

[katnip]

Having longstayers processed thru proper channels (embassy/consulate) makes more sense than having them being checked-up by a clerk at the border since there is more scrutinity to be employed for someone who wants to stay for an extended period of time, than some dude who wants to come in the country for 30 days.

Exactly.

Having people enter though more official channels & with proper records being kept means their later movements can be followed more easily (I assume) than if they come and go via assorted border posts.

This would also help in preventing/tracking the illegal workers.

Edited September 11, 2006 by katnip

[FlightRisk]

Gonzo the Face,

Re: your comment "Now in all fairness wouldn't you feel that the Thai citizen should be able to get on a plane in Bangkok and fly to the US and receive the same treatment... Well my friend , the VOA for you here is not reciprocal. In fact it is 20 times harder for the average Thai to get a Visa to the US.."

I would change the "20 times harder" to "impossible." Even after having been with my TGF (and known her family) for 5 years (she is educated and holding down a good job in LOS), the knuckle-heads at the US embassy turned down her fully (and I mean exhaustively) documented request for a simple tourist visa to the US in less than 3 minutes after a series of pointless, brain-dead questions. When I challenged the embassy official on his lack of common sense, he simply hid behind his office and shrugged. Completely disrespectful to my TGF and myself. Made me ashamed of my country, and caused me to question the value of my citizenship. The USA lost out on this in the thousands of dollars we would have spent at mom and pop shops and hotels across the country, as she would have toured the USA with me. Instead, we spent another 3 months together in LOS before I returned to the USA. LOS was the clear economic winner there, and the 30 day visa runs worked to their economic advantage.

So as much as I'm concered about the new visa regs (I have stayed 6 months at a time in LOS as a "tourist" doing back-to-back border runs and have always maintained my stamps in my passport), the US people at the USA embassy are far worse. Nonetheless, the Thai economy will be hurt by this, as people like me who have always keep my passport stamps legal and current wll not do extended stays (and money spending) in LOS, and will not do the kind of spending I have. I will still send my TGF money every month to help pay for our apartment in BKK, but it will change the way my future plans may unfold there.

- Flight Risk

Edited September 11, 2006 by FlightRisk

[kudroz]

What they are saying is fairly simple and comes down to this.

You are welcome in Thailand, you can stay up to 3 months - after that if you want to stay longer go get yourself checked at an Embassy abroad and come back with a Visa. If you don't want to go get yourself checked and get a visa, then come back in 90 days we will let you in again.

--speculative start--

And it wouldn't surprise me that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs sets out tougher regulations to prevent people on getting tourist visa back to back, or using multi-entry visa in abusive ways, etc. They might start asking for supportive financial documents to some younger folks applying for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th Tourist Visa in an attempt to scoop out the people working illegally, etc.

--specilative end--

Like I said, all in all I think it makes sense as long as they consider lossen up certain requirements and maybe introduce a new visa for the expats under 50 who do not wish to invest or operate a business. But maybe this is where the problem is, maybe they're saying if you're not interested in investing or operating a business and you're under 50 - we don't want you here.

Edited September 11, 2006 by kudroz

[katnip]

But maybe this is where the problem is, maybe they're saying if you're not interested in investing or operating a business and you're under 50 - we don't want you here.

Yes, indeed ... maybe.

Even for retired folk, it seems things are becoming more difficult - see, for example, the change mentioned in the thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=81834

Edited September 11, 2006 by katnip

[rainman]

processing longstayers through embassies/consulates aboard will also help the thai economy, because you would need to book a plane ticket with thai airways or air asia, both thai, every 3 months ...instead of hopping on a visa run bus that probably doesn't even pay taxes for its full income and mass ships everyone to the border and back. thailand doesn't make any money from 30 day runners, in contrary, they actually face more corruption as the borders accept bribes for issuing visas, etc.

i did 30 day runs in the past, i did tourist visas as well. believe me, i know how hard it is to stay in thailand being under 50, not working for a thai company and having only offshore income. i did eventually get married, but not because of the visa. that gave me the option however to get the one-year visa, so i took it.

if for some of you guys it means not driving to the border every 30 days, but flying to malaysia every 3 months, then take it. i've done it in the past, many times and its not so bad, actually its quite fun. especially those boasting how many millions of baht they spend each year ...come on, you can't afford a plane ticket of 3,000 baht to malaysia every 3 months?

[sriracha john]

The posts are still coming in to and fro...

so I'll have to wait a second or two in order to know...

Nothing to do but wait and see...

IF I timed it right in order to be...

The 500th post to this thread..................

-------------------------------

now then,

who'll be the lucky winner in the 50,000th view of the thread Lottery?

===============

*edit* ah well, 501 it is....

Edited September 11, 2006 by sriracha john

[pattaya_girl]

3.000 baht for a plane ticket to malaysia ?????? is that return ??????????

[schmitonian]

33 pages, sure only those with nothing better to do will make it this far...

OK, so Thai authorities are wanting to crackdown on perpetual tourists, but it will also hit the weary traveller or the genuine tourists.

I have just completed 4 trips in 3 months, all on VOA permits. 1st time was flying over on my 3 month R&R to pick up my TGF and take her to Australia. 2nd time arrived 8 weeks later to get married to TGF (now wifey). 3rd time as part of our honeymoon cruise to Phuket, Langkawi etc. 4th time on transit back from honeymoon and Singapore, where we arrived too late for the next flight to Udon (wifey)and Bahrain (me) and so checked out of the hotel for the night. New regulations would have made this impossible.

Alternative scenario would be I fly in for my break, go to the wife's family and pay my respects before whisking wifey on holiday (Cambodia, Vietnam or similar) and go back to pick up her daughter and take 'em to Oz to see my family. Not wanting to fly for 14+ hours to get back to work, we check out of the airport and go to a hotel in BKK. That's 4 entries in 2 weeks, and repeat 3-4 months later. No can do!

OK, so I have been lazy, and probably should have got some non-specific multi-entry visa for Thailand. Now that I am married, that is now a definite priority. But operating on a farang passport, I enjoy the privilege of going to most countries and receiving VOA. And having to operate through so many different countries and their immigration policies, it becomes very confusing which countries I am currently operating in as resident, which ones are business related, which ones I am tourist in, which ones wifey can go to, which visa of hers and mine are still valid or expired, and now I have to worry if I can go "home" to see the family when I want.

When I travel, it is all legit - company pays for my business visas, I get my VOA for tourist or transit purposes. Really, it is more of an inconvenience than anything, but thanks to the abusers of the system for @#$%ing it up for rest of us

[beammeup]

I think the big question a lot of us have is, is it 3 x 30 back to back or within 180 days or 1 year? If its back to back what is considered a reasonable time between chops? 5, 10, 30 days????? Does it Start in October or do they start counting the visa's in October? Will the Airline be responsible for it?

[cclub75]

I would change the "20 times harder" to "impossible." Even after having been with my TGF (and known her family) for 5 years (she is educated and holding down a good job in LOS), the knuckle-heads at the US embassy turned down her fully (and I mean exhaustively) documented request for a simple tourist visa to the US

A very valid point.

Same for all countries in Europe.

We treat "asian" tourists/students/immigrants like criminals. It's a shame.

I will take one real example : the french embassy in Hanoi, Vietnam, processes per year like a thousand applications for "student visa" for young vietnameses. For each case, they conduct almost a police investigation.

My point is : we spend a fortune and time to block... a few dozen of vietnamese who would actually blend into the nature once they put the foot in France (and becoming illegal immigrants). This is administrative efficiency !

On the other hand : we have thousands, dozen of thousand of people who are entering illegaly in Europe, from Maghreb, Africa, Turkey etc.

Asians (with chinese) are only a fraction of illegal immigration. And without doubt : the best one.

(sorry for the off topic reaction)

[beammeup]

What about the rich Singaporeans and Hongkies who have Sailboats moored in Phuket they will only be able to fly over and sail 3 times a year. Oh well so much for Thailand being the sailing hub of Asia. Back to Langkawi AGAIN!!!

[Maestro]

i dont understand you ! post my passport thats illegal isnt it ?

I post my passport to a Thai consulate in my country of residence and get it back two days later. Then I leave my country of residence to fly to Thailand, spend some weeks in the country and fly back home again. Never had a problem with this.

---------------

Maestro

[sjaak327]

I would change the "20 times harder" to "impossible." Even after having been with my TGF (and known her family) for 5 years (she is educated and holding down a good job in LOS), the knuckle-heads at the US embassy turned down her fully (and I mean exhaustively) documented request for a simple tourist visa to the US

A very valid point.

Same for all countries in Europe.

We treat "asian" tourists/students/immigrants like criminals. It's a shame.

I will take one real example : the french embassy in Hanoi, Vietnam, processes per year like a thousand applications for "student visa" for young vietnameses. For each case, they conduct almost a police investigation.

My point is : we spend a fortune and time to block... a few dozen of vietnamese who would actually blend into the nature once they put the foot in France (and becoming illegal immigrants). This is administrative efficiency !

On the other hand : we have thousands, dozen of thousand of people who are entering illegaly in Europe, from Maghreb, Africa, Turkey etc.

Asians (with chinese) are only a fraction of illegal immigration. And without doubt : the best one.

(sorry for the off topic reaction)

I cannot really comment on the USA, but getting a tourist visa for Schengen via the Dutch Embassy in Bangkok was really easy. I got my Lao boyfriend a 90 days tourist visa a couple of weeks ago, it was approved and put in his passport the same day we applied. No hassles whatsoever. And of course this visa is valid for all Schengen countries, and contrary to Thailand, he doesn't have to leave the schengen area (like people have to do on multiple entry tourist visa after 60 days in Thailand). He can just stay 90 days. Of course after this 90 days, he cannot return to the schengen area for 90 days.

This is also the big question here, are they limiting people to three entries within 90 days, if that is the case, Thailand role as a travel hub might decrease. If this is not the case, at least that would be good for the "country hoppers" and people going to Thailand over the weekend from Singapore or Hong Kong.

Further I'm wondering if my Lao boyfriend will be influenced by all of this, he currently is in Thailand and doing visa runs into Cambodia every month. Now Laos is not on the 41 countries list with visa exemption.

[rainman]

3.000 baht for a plane ticket to malaysia ?????? is that return ??????????

yes, with air asia.

[popshirt]

I linked it with Karr because Thailand's reputation has suffered another blow as a result of the media around this. Every paper and tv program in the US talks now of Thailand as a sex destination or a haven for kiddie fiddlers.

I'm convinced this move was kicked off by the publicity surrounding the Karr debacle, and that it's an attempt (albeit a heavy handed one), to give the impression it is looking to get more rigorous on immigration. And that can only be good for Thailand's reputation.

Hmmm........Carr has dropped off the radar in the US, apparently forgotten already. Most Americans don't even know where Thailand is. IMO very few have ever given Thailand even a second thought.