Immigration Police Moving To Justice Ministry

[george]

Immigration police moving to Justice

BANGKOK: -- Immigration police and the Office of the Consumer Protection Board (OCPB) will be upgraded in status and placed under Justice Ministry jurisdiction.

Justice Minister Chanchai Likhitjitta said yesterday the two agencies would be given department-level status. The immigration police are now with the Royal Thai Police Office and the OCPB is under the Prime Minister's Office.

He said the transfer of immigration police follows the police reform plan that will see non-crime suppression activities transferred to the relevant ministries. Other agencies to be transferred include marine, forest and railways police.

The city fire brigade has already been put under the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration.

The OCPB transfer was initiated by the Prime Minister's Office, Mr Chanchai said. The changes, to streamline state agencies, will be finished by the end of the year.

--Bangkok Post 2007-02-13

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Will they be more efficient ?

[ColPyat]

Immigration police moving to Justice

And when will the military be moved under the Ministry of Defense, especially the renewed ISOC which is now only under the authority of the military itself and not the parliament?

[hammered]

Immigration police moving to Justice

And when will the military be moved under the Ministry of Defense, especially the renewed ISOC which is now only under the authority of the military itself and not the parliament?

Hi Colpyat

I am sure you know the answer to that. The police ended up with most of its hierarchy stuffed with Thaksin cronies to a level no government has even dreamed of let alone tried before. The police were also given power over much of the security apparatus, control over the South and given a preeminence over the army under Thaksin. I wonder how many military men will remember the quote of Chidchai? (or was it Thammarak?) after a PAD rally when Gen. Sonthi said there was no need for a state of emergency, the minister was heard to say "what use is an army if they wont do the bidding of the government?" Now is the time the military will put the police in their place, and insure such cannot happen again. Whether one agrees with this or not is another matter.

The military run the show. They are not going to put themselves under anything, and they probably see themselves as having saved the country, and being the true guardians of national sovereignty for the future. Again whether one agrees with this or not is not the point I am sure that is how they see themselves.

Now if we go back in history we will also find other times when the police were brought down to earth by the more powerful and interestingly always more popular military. In fact the last 40 years or so of the history of the Thai police shows them having an ever decreasing amount of power until the brief interlude of the Thaksin regime. The lack of popularity always makes it easy for a government to push through police reform.

We should also probably not forget that the heads of the various security apparatus were all up for grabs towards the end of the Thaksin regime. It was widely speculated that the police were going to take over some of the main security positions normally held by the army. This view became rapidly stronger when military security elements were quickly named and accused without evidence of having been behind the now forgotten "bomb attempt" on the then PM.

Mind you whatever the reason behind police reform, few would say it is a bad thing. At the low to mid levels the police is also far from a simplistic pro-Thaksin oragnization.

[ColPyat]

Mind you whatever the reason behind police reform, few would say it is a bad thing. At the low to mid levels the police is also far from a simplistic pro-Thaksin oragnization.

Sorry for being facetious, of course i know the answer.

I am not so sure anymore about the police reform, looking at the way how the military grabs back an amount of power they have held only in the dark ages of Thailand. I don't think a police reform will be of any use whatsoever as long as the other armed forces are not undergoing the same reform. Of course i know that my barking up the tree is idealistic and lacks of any realistic solution, as things are at the moment.

Still doesn't mean that i should not give up thinking.

Factually, it is easy to be against police because police corruption - especially low level - is far more visible than very similar corruption under the military. In both organisations though rank has to be bought, and is decided primarily on the peer group system and not on abilities etc.

I think it is very frightening that the military makes a powergrab right now that will put it for the foreseeable future beyond control of any parliamentary scrutiny, and will have no power even close to equal influence in this country.

The military right now promotes itself as moral, but the people in leadership do have some open questions to answer about their personal histories that do shed a different light to their advertised commitment to human rights and due process. I can only highlight Surayudh's personal involvement in '92, and the lack of independent and open inquiry.

And, worse, Surayudh and Sonti are not hardliners. Imagine what happens when the real hardliners will inherit such a massive power.

I am sorry, but right now the stage is set for something possibly very ugly. You cannot have such a lopsided power distribution without something happening one day. Remember Thai history - it has not been that long ago, and here were some more than horrific incidents and periods of oppression. The people resonsible are still alive, in positions of power and influence, and have never been punished.

[astral]

I would have thought that the Foreign Ministry would have been a better choice.

[ColPyat]

I would have thought that the Foreign Ministry would have been a better choice.

Well, it depends. Common sense would dictate it. But then there might be a different logic behind this.

The "reform" seems to mainly be aimed at splitting police up, and making sure that it won't be able to compete with the army in terms of power.

If you look behind the nice rethoric so far, all real moves have been to ensure the army and burocracy an unusually high amount of power.

[Siripon]

Mind you whatever the reason behind police reform, few would say it is a bad thing. At the low to mid levels the police is also far from a simplistic pro-Thaksin oragnization.

Sorry for being facetious, of course i know the answer.

I am not so sure anymore about the police reform, looking at the way how the military grabs back an amount of power they have held only in the dark ages of Thailand. I don't think a police reform will be of any use whatsoever as long as the other armed forces are not undergoing the same reform. Of course i know that my barking up the tree is idealistic and lacks of any realistic solution, as things are at the moment.

Still doesn't mean that i should not give up thinking.

Factually, it is easy to be against police because police corruption - especially low level - is far more visible than very similar corruption under the military. In both organisations though rank has to be bought, and is decided primarily on the peer group system and not on abilities etc.

I think it is very frightening that the military makes a powergrab right now that will put it for the foreseeable future beyond control of any parliamentary scrutiny, and will have no power even close to equal influence in this country.

The military right now promotes itself as moral, but the people in leadership do have some open questions to answer about their personal histories that do shed a different light to their advertised commitment to human rights and due process. I can only highlight Surayudh's personal involvement in '92, and the lack of independent and open inquiry.

And, worse, Surayudh and Sonti are not hardliners. Imagine what happens when the real hardliners will inherit such a massive power.

I am sorry, but right now the stage is set for something possibly very ugly. You cannot have such a lopsided power distribution without something happening one day. Remember Thai history - it has not been that long ago, and here were some more than horrific incidents and periods of oppression. The people resonsible are still alive, in positions of power and influence, and have never been punished.

The forseeable future has been laid out very clearly.

A new constitution followed by elections late this year. The junta have repeatedly said they will adhere to this.

Sonthi himself is due to retire this September, along with several other coup makers.

Let them do things one at a time, they can hardly reform the army at the same time as the police, the latter in itself is hard enough.

I'm surprised colonel that you see police reform as no use, I think 95% of the Thai population that have no police relatives might disagree with you on this.

[ColPyat]

The forseeable future has been laid out very clearly.

A new constitution followed by elections late this year. The junta have repeatedly said they will adhere to this.

Sonthi himself is due to retire this September, along with several other coup makers.

Let them do things one at a time, they can hardly reform the army at the same time as the police, the latter in itself is hard enough.

I'm surprised colonel that you see police reform as no use, I think 95% of the Thai population that have no police relatives might disagree with you on this.

Personally, i don't really care how 95% of the population feels, it's like with the lemmings...

I don't think that 95% of the population here reads university papers that give a bit of a different tone to history as opposed to mainstream official version of events and mechanics.

But no, i am very much for a reform on the role of all armed forces in Thailand. But i do mistrust the present powergames which are only aimed at establishing the army as the sole power. This is lopsided, and completely out of balance.

As long as the newly defined ISOC, a until now dormant remnant of the coldwar, will stay above parliamentary scrutiny, the way how it has been set up, no constitution will be worth the paper it is written on.

They many write a constitution, but the question remains what it will contain, and which role army and burocracy have reserved themselves.

Edited February 13, 2007 by ColPyat

[sriracha john]

Immigration police moving to Justice

BANGKOK: -- Immigration police and the Office of the Consumer Protection Board (OCPB) will be upgraded in status and placed under Justice Ministry jurisdiction.

same, same as USA:

"The Border Patrol was part of the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), an agency within the U.S. Department of Justice."

This was how it was for decades... until the screwy realignment with this Department of Homeland Security came about and took over the role.