Diet Advice Needed

[simon43]

In the interests of differentiating myself from all the other fat farang guys in BKK, I have been going to the gym every day for the past 5 weeks.

Under the care of a personal trainer, I have improved my fitness level, grown bulging muscles, and gained 5 kg in weight.

Now, the increase in weight does not concern me if it's muscle and not fat. But what is galling is that my podgy stomach and love-handles simply refuse to reduce in size.

I eat like a mouse anyway (and little beer..), so I can't understand how on earth I'm not losing the fat

My personal trainer is great at fitness training etc, but is not qualified to advise me about my diet, and I recognise the importance of a correct diet in a fitness program etc.

Back in the UK you can avail yourself of a personal dietician to advise and monitor your diet etc. Do such persons exist in BKK?

(Some might say just cut out the fat in your diet etc etc, but there is a lot more 'science' to it if you really want to achieve the desired end-result...)

Thanks for any advice!

[Totster]

Now, the increase in weight does not concern me if it's muscle and not fat. But what is galling is that my podgy stomach and love-handles simply refuse to reduce in size.

your getting old.... it's there for good

[Pepe']

Have a thryroid panel done also check both total and free testosterone levels.

I just lost a lenghtly reply I sent to you about this. God I hate when that happens

[Thaiquila]

Good advice about checking the thyroid. It is not as rare as people think (personally I don't produce any thryroid hormone).

Also, if you are really fit otherwise, you may be a good candidate for spot liposuction which is a good bargain in Thailand.

Any lipo customers have recommendations for doctors or hospitals. I know Bumrungrad does it.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

In the interests of differentiating myself from all the other fat farang guys in BKK, I have been going to the gym every day for the past 5 weeks.

Under the care of a personal trainer, I have improved my fitness level, grown bulging muscles, and gained 5 kg in weight.

Now, the increase in weight does not concern me if it's muscle and not fat. But what is galling is that my podgy stomach and love-handles simply refuse to reduce in size.

I eat like a mouse anyway (and little beer..), so I can't understand how on earth I'm not losing the fat

My personal trainer is great at fitness training etc, but is not qualified to advise me about my diet, and I recognise the importance of a correct diet in a fitness program etc.

Back in the UK you can avail yourself of a personal dietician to advise and monitor your diet etc. Do such persons exist in BKK?

(Some might say just cut out the fat in your diet etc etc, but there is a lot more 'science' to it if you really want to achieve the desired end-result...)

Thanks for any advice!

See a dietician as well. Bumrungrad ( along with other hospitals ) has 'em. You can eat and drink whatever you like, but no swallowing

[Snapshot]

total and free testosterone levels

Yeah man, go test your testoterone levels man, do it man!

[Khutan]

The training regeime may not be tailored towards "Burning Fat". IF your trainer has you doing bench presses and bycep curls, sure you will get huge muscles but the fat your body is carrying will only very slowly deminish. I can give you a long rundown on the energy cycle but at this time that may be boring.

The simplest way is to reduce as much simple carbohydrate and do a quantity of exercise that mildly elevates your heartrate. Simple Carbs being Sugar, glucose, maltose etc. Also Watch for rice and starch. You can replace that with protien to an extent.

For exercise get on a walking machine and work yourself up to a walk and ONLY a walk for about 40 - 60 minutes. A good speed is about 9 km/h at a 10 - 12 degree incline.

You only want to mildly increase your heartrate.

Try that for a month or so and you will see it fall off.

[jayrockwell]

Simon,

Focus on a cardiovascular workout (i.e. running/walking, aerobics, fitness) and slower and longer (minimum 1 hour) rather than a ten minute sprint.

I lost 30kgs when I first came to Thailand, doing exactly that. It's also important to build fitness into your life, a good workout 3 or 4 times a week will keep off the kilos, a 5 week blitz and then nothing could see you put a lot back on.

For me the optimum fat burn was keeping my heart rate at between 60 and 80%, your gym should be able to help you work that out with monitoring equipment.

I found it difficult to do fat burning and muscle building all at once (for motivation I like to see actual results in kilos shed), and the diets required for fat burning and muscle building are different.

Good luck, but actually theres no luck involved, if you want it enough you will make it happen.

Regards

J

P.S. I know you are in Phuket where do you workout? I can recommend Le Meridien (on the way to Karon from Patong), it's 40,000 a year but has great equipment, staff, sauna, tennis, swimming pools, private beach etc..

Edited July 15, 2004 by jayrockwell

[simon43]

Pepe, what is the significance of my testosterone levels re my fat?? In another thread I spoke about the fact that my testosterone levels were checked last year and found to be grossly deficient (same as a 90 year old). I have been on a course of testosterone implants every 6 months since then. This has done wonders to my libido, but I'm not sure how testosterone affects body fat. Can you explain?

[simon43]

Hi Jayrockwell, thanks also for your post. Gee, if you lost 30kg then you must have been a h*ll of a fat b*stard to begin with

I fully understand that any fitness/diet regime needs to be continuous, not just a mad 1-month spree. So my gym work-out is for the long-term. To some extent age must be a factor in how your physique looks (I'm 45), and I'm certainly not in bad shape, but it would be nice to have a firm stomach that all the girls love (hang on.. when I was a fat sod it didn't seem to bother them .. ah I love LoS )

I weigh 74 kg, so the actual weight is not important to me, more the podgy bits...

As you say, different diets for muscle building and fat burning. My muscles have built up pretty well, so I'm happy now to concentrate on the low-fat diet. But it is beyond my comprehension how I have built up bulk in the 1st place, based on my diet.

Typical food for a day is:

Breakfast - green tea, yoghurt, banana

Lunch - Iced tea, rice, thai tuna salad

Dinner - Sticky rice, dried beef or Thai fish, yoghurt and pomelo

Plus a few low-fat yoghurt drinks throughout the day and 1 can of beer every few days...plus vitamin pill..

A dead mouse eats more than me, and this has been my level of food intake for a long time.

Oh, I don't actually live in Phuket right now. Last year I (GF) bought some land at Mission Hills Golf Course and we will build some apartments. Right now we are just buying some land at Nai Yang to build our house, but that will take a year or so. In the meantime I live in BKK and hop over to Phuket every few weeks.

Cheers!!

Simon

[simon43]

Hi Daniel, thanks very much for your useful posting!

A couple of comments:

I eat like a mouse and always have done! It's not a dieting fad but my usual food-intake for as many years as I can remember! I simply don't feel hungry to want to eat more. So I assume I have been in survival mode for years

I need little sleep, maybe 6 hours maximum. Again, this has been the case for a long time.

I actually don't exercise on Sunday, but I do take your point about maybe having a break mid-week. I do not exercise to excess (I can still walk after my 30 minute work-out ...)

You make useful comment about the need to eat 5-6 times per day, and about the need to maximise protein etc etc, but what does this actually equate to. in terms of real food? Do you have a recommended daily food 'menu'? (This is the type of info I need, rather than my own hit and miss approach...)

Do PM me if you can help (I feel the need to pay some money coming on... )

Cheers

Simon

PS - If you want to sell me a gym-pass then don't bother cos I'm signed up for a year with my local gym

[350torana]

I always found the best way to lose weight is walk, walk, walk. I found i had put on 15 kg after one year here,i know it was the beer and potatoe chips late at night. But I started walking , not that power walking junk. Just normal walking with a walkman and a small backpack. Running makes my lungs work to hard Also went on the tuna sandwich diet(tuna,cheese, lettuce , tomatoe and mustard), for lunch and dinner , kilos came off in weeks . Save yourself the gym membership and exercise outdoors

[Pepe']

Pepe, what is the significance of my testosterone levels re my fat?? In another thread I spoke about the fact that my testosterone levels were checked last year and found to be grossly deficient (same as a 90 year old). I have been on a course of testosterone implants every 6 months since then. This has done wonders to my libido, but I'm not sure how testosterone affects body fat. Can you explain?

To much to explain here. I would do a google or ask jeeves search for detailed info.

The connection between low testosterone levels and obeisity, diabetes and high cholestorol are now becoming well established.

also check out www.lef.org

[kwiz117]

Instant results.. reduce fat by 10KG within 1 week.

What you have to do is, get one fish oil bottle.. apply it in areas where you want to cut down fat…leave around 10 minutes to dry..

Try it and see..

[frenchFARANGbkk]

So easy to diet in Los, steamed rice and boiled chicken is available everywhere 24 hours....

[meadish_sweetball]

Instant results.. reduce fat by 10KG within 1 week.

What you have to do is, get one fish oil bottle.. apply it in areas where you want to cut down fat…leave around 10 minutes to dry..

Try it and see..

Methinks Mr Kwiz is walking us down the garden path. But nice try.

[weary]

Ok, here goes, if someone could please give me some pointers too...

I am 30 years old, 184 centimeters tall and weigh 84 kilograms. I am what you might call a bit 'flabby', and by this I mean that in loose-fitting clothes, I look almost skinny because of lacking muscle mass on my upper body, but without clothes, you can there is fat in places where it should not be.

My fat is mainly concentrated around my waist and on my bum, but I also have a tendency to a Honda Dream tyre on the front of my stomach.

I bought membership at a local gym 3 weeks ago, and now go there 3 days per week. Prior to this, I did not exercise for 4 years. In my job, I sit in front of the computer 10-14 hours per day. Unfortunately, I cannot change my work situation, but maybe you could advice me on what type of breaks I should take, and what type of food to eat and how often?

At the gym, they have taught me how to use the standard machines but not yet the free weights. A workout proceeds from 20 minutes of walking on a treadmill, 20 minutes on those walking machines with two steps and movable handles that rotate with your body moves (not sure what these machines are called). I then do leg exercises for strength. Machines only. After this, arm and chest muscles (lats, bench press machine etc.), then stomach (machine) and back (on a free structure without weights). Sometimes I use a machine for biceps and triceps as well. I finish the workout with 20 minutes walking on the treadmill or on the other machine.

I notice my physical condition has improved a bit since I started, but my problem is that I am not sure how I should exercise. The instructors are not that good at giving advice, I asked for them to put together a program, but they told me to do this schedule as described "until further notice". It somehow sounded like they were not confident that I was fit enough to take a test... Personally, I don't think it is that bad.

The main goal with my exercises is to become fitter and stronger.

My partial objectives are to build more muscle on my upper body and reduce the fat all over, toning my body so to speak. My forearms and biceps are especially small, and I would like to increase them significantly. I would also like to get a flat stomach and get rid of my love handles.

My diet practices are not very good. I do not eat breakfast (only a cup of Earl Grey with milk) and then have lunch around 1 PM (Thai food, normally chicken fried with vegetables, pork fried with herbs and curry paste, or minced pork with basil and rice plus water) and dinner between 6 and 9 PM (9 PM on the days where I work out).

The question is, should I burn fat first and then concentrate on increasing my muscle mass, or the other way around? I understand that when I concentrate on burning fat, I may lose muscle mass as well... Daniel, you seem to have all the required knowledge about this, so if you read this, could you please give me some exercise and nutrition advice? I will happily provide you with more info if you need it.

Many thanks in advance,

Chris

[NedKelly]

Inrelationto the first poster I will say that 5 weeks is not a very long time for seeing results ina training regime. Give it some more time and train hard. Dont puss around like many people do in the gym. No pain no gain ! ( I dont mean literal pain of course......just work hard)

The last poster ....you need to eat breakfast !! This is the most important meal of the day. Keep the training going and read what Dan has written earlier about diet.

Another tip for those who eat a lot and would like to see where they can change their diets to reduce body fat in conjunction with training, is to get a sheet of paper and make 7 columns down it in landscape format. Each column represents a day of the week. Then write down everything you eat for a week......I mean everything........if yo uhad a sandwhich write all the ingredients......etc etc. then at the end of the week you can get a highlight pen and mark any item that is high infat. Example.....if yo uhave butter on a sandwhich mark it down, if you have friend food mark it.....if yo ueat cake mark it. Then you will have an idea of where you have a lot of fat in your diet and what you may be able to cut down. This worked for me a few years back when I was training a lot and wanted to cut my body fat a little bit more. I actually stopped eating butter or margarine for example and to this day still dont eat it. So it can be a worthwhile exercise !

[fatter than harry]

What an excellent topic.

[350torana]

I am always a bit cynical of gyms. Sure, they produce results, mostly losing weight on your hip pocket .

There is alot of differant exercises u can do that don't cost much. Push-ups, sit-ups, crunchs are free. A pair of dumbells is cheap and great for a workout at home in between gym days . Swimming walking and running is also a great toner, espiecally to lose love handles . Exercise in the morning then breakfast is a great way to start the day.

I am not a nutritionist, or Mr Atlas for that matter, but it is simple maths. Burn more than u consume

[simon43]

OK, here's an update as to my current diet/fitness situation:

I generally go to the gym 6 days a week, at 6.30am. On 3 of the days I work out with free weights, plus 30 minutes fat-burning cycling. On the other 3 days I just cycle for 1 hour.

I eat only fresh fruit and fruit juice for breakfast, with a tuna salad for lunch. Then fresh fish for supper, plus natural yogurt and more fruit. I also take some vitamin and cod-liver oil supplements.

Results?

My body muscle has increased and looks quite good

My weight has not changed AT ALL!! Still 71 kg

My primary area of interest (my stomach) remains unchanged!! I can feel that my stomach muscles are firmer, but my abs are still covered by the same layer of fat.

For purely vanity reasons, I want to get rid of the fat covering my rippling abs

I don't have a problem with my current weight.

So, any suggestions how I get rid of this ab fat? Liposuction is not top of my list

[bangkokian]

i agree with walk walk walk to wherver you need to go. I used to walk everywhere back in Eugene, Oregon--I was able to stay trim while eating like a hog.... a pot of spaghetti++ after midnight. Unfortunately, walking isn't quite so pleasant in BKK.

[Jai Dee]

i agree with walk walk walk to wherver you need to go.  I used to walk everywhere back in Eugene, Oregon--I was able to stay trim while eating like a hog.... a pot of spaghetti++ after midnight.  Unfortunately, walking isn't quite so pleasant in BKK.

And thanks bangkokian for rejuvenating it for all of us to see.

As FTH said... "excellent topic".

[udon]

I lost 30kgs when I first came to Thailand, doing exactly that. It's also important to build fitness into your life, a good workout 3 or 4 times a week will keep off the kilos, a 5 week blitz and then nothing could see you put a lot back on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Geez, Jas, now I know why you look like a string bean........

The only way I've ever lost weight was when I was skint and lived off fried rice 3 times a day and only drank water.

Now I'm skint and overweight again! but now I'm in the wrong country to lose wt.

Too many tasty kebabs around, esp the Egyptian ones.

Edited March 18, 2005 by udon

[buadhai]

I started doing distance running when I was about 12. Over the years I have run many Marathons, Triathlons and other distance and ultra-events. When I was in peak shape I weighed about 65 kilos. I am 180 cm tall. I continue to run about 8K, five or six times a week. I eat and drink moderately. Hardly any meat. I am now age 55. I weigh 80 kilos. I have a small gut and a couple of really cute love handles. Nothing I do causes them to shrink. If I put on a few kilos, they go right to my gut. When I shed them, my gut shrinks. I am resigned to the fact that these wonderful little fatty deposits will be with me for the rest of my life.

As an aside: when doctors examined the German concentration camp survivors they were surprised to note that even people who had been starved nearly to death retained some fat in patterns expected for their sex and body type.

The bottom line: your body just loves to store fat and will continue to do so despite your best efforts to stop it.

Sure, you can reduce it a bit, but I'm afraid it will always be there.

[pedro01]

Losing weight is 25% exercise, 75% nutrition.

Eating like a mouse is not the way forward.

I lost 17kg so far & am now cutting up - the abs are already showing.

Here's my typical days food.

Breakfast 6AM

half a cup of dried oats cooked with 1 cup of water & half a cup of fat-freemilk

Add in 5-10 prunes or other dried fruit.

Snack 9AM

1 Apple with a protein shake

Lunch 12PM

half a can of tuna/microwaved chicken brease

As many steamed vegetables as I can eat.

not - no rice, no startchy veg like potatoes

Snack 3PM

1 tub cottage cheese with an apple or half a can of kidney beans mixed in

Dinner 6.30pm

Grilled chicken breast, unlimited salad or steamed vegetables.

I am 68 kilos now - need to get down to 63/64 to be 'ripped' - I am a shortarse just in case you are wondring.

I train 3/4 times a week - mostly weights at the moment as I have a knee injury. This diet is dropping off 2lbs of fat a week & as I say - seems to drop the same even when I add aerobics. Typical aerobics session for me would be 1 hour run.

Send me a PM with your email address - I have this diet in an ebook that I can email to you.

Also - send us your days diet & me & the other posters will comment on it.

[buadhai]

No alcohol, eh?

I suppose if I cut out my after-run beer and wine with dinner I could actually shed a kilogram or two.

[Tornado]

Hi Simon,

This could of been my thread as it sounds like what Im going through.

Im two months back at the gym now and initially I was 102 kg's (not much fat) and now I am 97 kg's and a lot leaner. The past couple of weeks I have given up rice and bread , to get rid of the 2 cm flab around the gut - it is working! give up the sticky rice IMHO. I also have a "eat crap day" on Sunday and eat what I want - it makes the "diet" worth doing, as you have something to look forward to at the end of the week on rest day.

Ive just realised you posted this last year , so how are you doing now??

[pedro01]

Hi Simon,

This could of been my thread as it sounds like what Im going through. 

Im two months back at the gym now and initially I was 102 kg's (not much fat) and now I am 97 kg's and a lot leaner. The past couple of weeks I have given up rice and bread  , to get rid of the 2 cm flab around the gut - it is working! give up the sticky rice IMHO. I also have a "eat crap day" on Sunday and eat what I want - it makes the "diet" worth doing, as you have something to look forward to at the end of the week on rest day.

Ive just realised you posted this last year  , so how are you doing now??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's the refined grains you need to avoid. White bread & refined white rice are all carbs with very little fibre to slow down their absorbtion.

Brown rice & wholemeal bread are fine to eat.

The theory is that these types of foods (those over 50/55 on the Glycemic Index) cause an increase in your blood sugar. Your body responds by producing insulin. Insulin tells your metabolism to burn carbs, not fat.

So - by eating these foods, you shut down your ability to use fat.

Eating higher-fibre carbs will slow the release of sugar & won't give you the insulin spike.

It's a big diet change - no beer, wine, whiskey, potatoes, white rice BUT you do not have to go hungry & you should not cut out all carbs - just the ones high on the Glycemic Index

[Sheryl]

Hi Jayrockwell, thanks also for your post.  Gee, if you lost 30kg then you must have been a h*ll of a fat b*stard to begin with     

I fully understand that any fitness/diet regime needs to be continuous, not just a mad 1-month spree.  So my gym work-out is for the long-term.  To some extent age must be a factor in how your physique looks (I'm 45), and I'm certainly not in bad shape, but it would be nice to have a firm stomach that all the girls love (hang on.. when I was a fat sod it didn't seem to bother them .. ah I love LoS  )

I weigh 74 kg, so the actual weight is not important to me, more the podgy bits...

As you say, different diets for muscle building and fat burning. My muscles have built up pretty well, so I'm happy now to concentrate on the low-fat diet.  But it is beyond my comprehension how I have built up bulk in the 1st place, based on my diet.

Typical food for a day is:

Breakfast - green tea, yoghurt, banana

Lunch - Iced tea, rice, thai tuna salad

Dinner - Sticky rice, dried beef or Thai fish, yoghurt and pomelo

Plus a few low-fat yoghurt drinks throughout the day and 1 can of beer every few days...plus vitamin pill..

A dead mouse eats more than me, and this has been my level of food intake for a long time.

Oh, I don't actually live in Phuket right now.  Last year I (GF) bought some land at Mission Hills Golf Course and we will build some apartments. Right now we are just buying some land at Nai Yang to build our house, but that will take a year or so.  In the meantime I live in BKK and hop over to Phuket every few weeks.

Cheers!!

Simon

Dear Simon,

Unless you are extraordinarily short, your weight is fine and you don't need to lose, so I see no reason for you to alter what sounds like a reasonably healthy diet already.

For weight distribution problems (those love handles etc), liposuction will give excellent and permanent results but it is surgery and it does cost. I've had liposuction in Thailand and been pleased with it. Just be sure to have it done at a reputable hospital because it does involve general anesthesia (the main risk to the procedure is from the anesthesia) and by a board certifies plastic surgeon with experience in the procedure. If you don't want lipo, there are places doing a combination of mesotherapy and something called endermologie - basically they inject stuff to break up fat deposits and then do vigorous massage and apply suction...it will end up costing just as much and I'm not sure of the success rate and permanancy.

Your other option of course is to just accept iyour bulges. Up to you!