Can Someone Help Me With The Precise Meaning "toleh"

[luumak]

I was in a beer bar a few nights ago and there was a foreigner who seemingly every word out of his mouth preceeding "Thai woman no good" was toleh. I am a bit shy to ask my Thai lady friends and even the manager in my apartment as I have a fairly good understanding what this word means, basically a slut. The Thai women can't translate this perfectly and I know the manager will think ill of me. So I am asking here. Is this a perfect translation? I assure you I have never used this word and never will.

a woman (person?) with loose morals as opposed to a prostitute (or wahtever)

I don't know why people first thing they do is learn to swear in a foreign language. What do you say after you offend and someone is running after you with a knife and you have not even learned to apologize.

Ah yes, it is indeed Pattaya of course

Edited November 16, 2007 by luumak

[Tywais]

Wonder if what they were saying was ตอแหล dtor-lăe which means to lie or liar?

[luumak]

Hi thanks. Perhaps. When a bar girl looked at me and asked me if I knew I just put it together and assumed not wanting to further insult. Maybe I had it all wrong and does not mean slut. I normally here the women use 'goh hok" and in my dictionary, this is lie or liar.

Thank you

[cm-happy]

think it means, non sense or possibly even BS

[NatamonK]

lie = โกหก = Go-Hok

liar = คนโกหก = Kon-Go-Hok

Toleh is much more rude as you can use "Bull Shit" in Eng.

[taxexile]

its an impolite word used by impolite people to aggressively insinuate that what you are saying to them is untrue/bullsh1t/rubbish.

i.e. you dirty liar , you lying bastard , you're full of sh1t , etc.etc.etc.

never a good idea for a foreigner to attempt to swear or badmouth in thai.

it sounds ridiculous , can get you into all kinds of trouble and just marks you out as a loser who associates with other losers.

[meadish_sweetball]

Agree with tax, learn the meaning but avoid using it. Use the word in the wrong setting and it will be taken as a grave insult.

[highdiver]

here in Samui the locals use the word "strawberry" as a replacement for Toleh.

it makes it sound nicer and more polite..

[withnail]

I've been told that the 'strawberry' expression is one coined by/favoured by ladyboys, in fact I once heard a radio reporter explaining this to one of her colleagues on air. From what I recall she did so avoiding the direct translation so I agree it is probably cuter/more polite, but still IMO equally as ridiculous and likely not to be understood by some people.

I also agree with what Tax says above, don't use it you'll sound like an arse.

Edited November 16, 2007 by withnail

[Rikker]

Yep, "strawberry" is avoidance slang for ตอแหล, because it incorporates the first syllable of the word. It's often used in a shortened form as สะตอ, too. These avoidance versions are a bit softer, but have just as much potential to cause insult, if you aren't careful to use it with close friends only.

[Edit: Didn't see the post from withnail, who makes a valid point. As it happens, gays and ladyboys seem to have a strong influence on Thai slang, as many words now used generally are supposed to have started out as gay slang. Just check a list of Thai gay slang, like this one, and compare it with the contents of the new Royal Institute Dictionary of New Words. They're really not new, many are just now hitting the mainstream.]

Edited November 16, 2007 by Rikker

[stateman]

I was in a beer bar a few nights ago and there was a foreigner who seemingly every word out of his mouth preceeding "Thai woman no good" was toleh.

a woman (person?) with loose morals as opposed to a prostitute (or wahtever)

No. It doesn't mean as mentioned above.

This word popped up several times in the past on TV. A quick search will find several.

[soundman]

ตอแหล - dtor lair is slang roughly equating to bullshit or you're full of crap.

I would try to avoid using this & getting it into your vocabulary, as it can pop out of our mouth at the most in-oportune moments - like at a family gathering & the room will drop dead silent.... I know from peronsal experience and much embarassment....

Cheers,

Soundman.

[luumak]

Hi thanks to everyone. I went thru my dictionary and was proud to say perhaps he meant argue 'to la 'something like that. But obviously, the meaning is clear. My manager gave me another phrase for nonsense/bullshit. Hes a proper guy so thats what I would/will use.

I never learn bad words or phrases in any language just on the off hand that I am drunk and it would slip out.

Was in a bar down from another where a farang told a drunken wandering bar girl (inviting people to her birthday party no less) to F-off. You can insult Thais in many ways, but from what I have witnessed, the F bomb sends them ballistic, and so she went; and them came the boyfriend and then them all on the ground fighting. :-)

THANK YOU

Edited November 17, 2007 by luumak

[realthaideal]

I missed the implications of Dtoh Leh when I've heard it in the past. Knew it could mean a BS'er, but thought it was more along the lines of a big talker with promises never to be fulfilled. I'll have to defer to the knowledgeable WNail and Meadish here I suppose. But so, in that case, what's the word for big talker full of too many promises - perhaps one who means what he says, but just never follows thru to deliver the goods ?

[thaipete]

I was in a beer bar a few nights ago and there was a foreigner who seemingly every word out of his mouth preceeding "Thai woman no good" was toleh. I am a bit shy to ask my Thai lady friends and even the manager in my apartment as I have a fairly good understanding what this word means, basically a slut. The Thai women can't translate this perfectly and I know the manager will think ill of me. So I am asking here. Is this a perfect translation? I assure you I have never used this word and never will.

a woman (person?) with loose morals as opposed to a prostitute (or wahtever)

I don't know why people first thing they do is learn to swear in a foreign language. What do you say after you offend and someone is running after you with a knife and you have not even learned to apologize.

Ah yes, it is indeed Pattaya of course

Toleh is infact lying but can be said in fun with a big smile on your face and will be accepted by most Thais unless they are out to con you lol

[scousemouse]

I missed the implications of Dtoh Leh when I've heard it in the past. Knew it could mean a BS'er, but thought it was more along the lines of a big talker with promises never to be fulfilled. I'll have to defer to the knowledgeable WNail and Meadish here I suppose. But so, in that case, what's the word for big talker full of too many promises - perhaps one who means what he says, but just never follows thru to deliver the goods ?

" kee moh "

[scousemouse]

I missed the implications of Dtoh Leh when I've heard it in the past. Knew it could mean a BS'er, but thought it was more along the lines of a big talker with promises never to be fulfilled. I'll have to defer to the knowledgeable WNail and Meadish here I suppose. But so, in that case, what's the word for big talker full of too many promises - perhaps one who means what he says, but just never follows thru to deliver the goods ?

" kee moh "

"kee moh " - " show off " , I always get called it when I promise everyone that Liverpool are going to win .

[cooL_guY_corY]

i ve seen ตอแหล applied to things more then just talking like say.. physical actions, say if some one is trying to do some crazy dance moves when they actually are not a dancer and are just joking kinda thing i have heard ตอแหล a lot in situations like that and similar ie trying to sing kinda thing. Also although it might be a bad word its also very popular between friends and relaxed atmospheres, but obviously foreigners should really pick their spots when using any kind of impolite stuff... younger people love it though, first thing i heard when hanging out with some of my friends from university is all the worst words and phrases in the language.. and from the girls no less..

[SomeBloke]

I think as so many people in Thailand - of all nationalities - talk a lot of toh leh, the word can easily be used humorously between friends - just like 'bullshit' or '<deleted>' in English.

[Plus]

It's not as insulting as you make it to be but, as a slang word, you need to know when to use it and sound natural, most importantly use it when it is expected by others, then no one will notice.

"Strawberry" is a sweet nonsense.

Both words do not really describe people, they describe what has been said and how it has been said.

[Vee]

Thai ppl use word "toleh" when they are in an extremely angry mood. Normally, it is used among women during fierce argument and after that there maybe a fight...!!

Vee

[bbaxter]

I haven't met a thai who will give me a good definition. basicly it means fickle. If some gives you a compliement and you deny it, knowing it it true they will call you toleh. If someone else says one thing and does another, that is toleh as well. This is how I've heard it used.

[mangkorn]

Thai ppl use word "toleh" when they are in an extremely angry mood. Normally, it is used among women during fierce argument and after that there maybe a fight...!!

Vee

I don't believe that to be true at all. It normally means something akin to "bullshit," and is used as a casual blow-off (or even in fun) far more often than as fighting words.

As for the admonitions against farangs using it, that surely holds true for farangs who can't speak Thai well. But a pretty fluent speaker with real Thai friends (i.e., not in beer bars) can certainly use it in a convivial mood when the context so dictates.

[distortedlink]

here in Samui the locals use the word "strawberry" as a replacement for Toleh.

it makes it sound nicer and more polite..

YOU, YOU, NASTY OLE STRAWBERRY YOU.

What does that mean? Seedy on the outside perhaps?

I'll blow a raspberry to that one.

Edited November 19, 2007 by distortedlink

[stateman]

ตอแหล - dtor lair is slang roughly equating to bullshit or you're full of crap.

I would try to avoid using this & getting it into your vocabulary, as it can pop out of our mouth at the most in-oportune moments - like at a family gathering & the room will drop dead silent.... I know from peronsal experience and much embarassment....

Soundman.

Thai ppl use word "toleh" when they are in an extremely angry mood. Normally, it is used among women during fierce argument and after that there maybe a fight...!!

Vee

I agree with both soundman and Vee. It is best not to use this, or use it at your own risk. It is more often used by girls among themselves. Though bad, it may be acceptable when they are close and know the speaker was kidding.

But when it comes from guys, it just sounds too strong a word to use and can easily be taken as condemning her. Girl can really be offended big time.

I used it once as a joke on my then gf. Joke or not, she was really offended and the day was ruined. Not worth my bad mouthing with this word. That was the only time in my life that I used the word and never again!

[meadish_sweetball]

But when it comes from guys, it just sounds too strong a word to use and can easily be taken as condemning her. Girl can really be offended big time.

I used it once as a joke on my then gf. Joke or not, she was really offended and the day was ruined. Not worth my bad mouthing with this word. That was the only time in my life that I used the word and never again!

I have had an identical experience which is why I tried to advice against it. I thought it was ok to use as a joke with my girlfriend, but it was taken very, very seriously.

[withnail]

I too remember a mistake using this word. I honestly learnt this word before I'd learnt the word โกหก and used it in front of some college students. They weren't upset with me but certainly weren't impressed and warned me against using it.

[cutter007]

Telling you not to use a word.

This is a bad word, and bad bad people use it??????????

Was the poster of this message 6 years old or something?

What if you actually have to express the sentiment with the meaning bullshit?

Do you people have a backup word........what........khoo hook maak maak.

Beware of people advising you to strive for ignorance and tip tow around a language, because they

aren't comfortable using it. This is not good advise.

Toleh is acceptable to use around friends while joking, said different it

can leave a much different impression on others, I believe though it always carries

an informal meaning, and I doubt there is a formal conversation where it would be appropreiate in.

You should learn all words in a language you are attempting to master,

this includes the context to use the word in, the full meaning the word implies, and the social circumstances

that it is normally used in. And I believe you should use them when they are the correct

words for the situation, and you can use them correctly.

Ignorance is not pretty, but its purveyors are just plain ugly.

[meadish_sweetball]

Was the poster of this message 6 years old or something?

What if you actually have to express the sentiment with the meaning bullshit?

Do you people have a backup word........what........khoo hook maak maak.

'khoo hook'????

I'm sorry... but unless you can produce better transcription than that, or just write it in Thai, I guess you should be a little more careful with criticizing others for not knowing the language well enough.

To answer your question, there are other strategies of handling people lying than outright confrontation. Sometimes they work better, sometimes not.

I don't disagree that people should learn all aspects of a language and when it is appropriate to use a word, but I don't think it is out of place to make a warning based on personal experience either.

Context is in each situation, not on this web board. Hence it is impossible to foresee what kind of specific situations posters will find themselves in, and how they carry themselves.

Before being comfortable with a language it is a good idea to err on the side of caution and politeness. At least it seems to work for me.

[withnail]

Plenty of English speakers get by without having to use the word BS so why can't we do so with a Thai swear word?

See this thread for my previous thoughts on swearing in a foreign language (and notice that 2 years ago I couldn't spell the word ใช่)

Edited November 20, 2007 by withnail