The Economics Of Growing Rice

[Harry Palmer]

one rai produces on the average about 300 Kg (10 bags) of rice per harvest...

fertiliser cost about 40 thb per rai...

the stuff sells for between 5 & 7 thb per kilo...

a family of ten eats about 55 bags of rice per year, so that family of ten with a 25 rai farm makes somewhere between 30,000 and 40,000 thb per year...

...sure some areas have enough water for two harvests a year... sure they can sell the rice out of town, but that incurs transportation costs...

hardly surprising then that so many farming families send their best looking daughter to work in the whore-houses of bangkok or pattaya...

sword of justice & trusty shield of fair play...

[rockstarjez]

Man you have a big Thing about BG's don't you. Every post I have looked at from you on here so far has something to do with BG's.

[Totster]

one rai produces on the average about 300 Kg (10 bags) of rice per harvest...

fertiliser cost about 40 thb per rai...

the stuff sells for between 5 & 7 thb per kilo...

a family of ten eats about 55 bags of rice per year, so that family of ten with a 25 rai farm makes somewhere between 30,000 and 40,000 thb per year...

...sure some areas have enough water for two harvests a year... sure they can sell the rice out of town, but that incurs transportation costs...

hardly surprising then that so many farming families send their best looking daughter to work in the whore-houses of bangkok or pattaya...

sword of justice & trusty shield of fair play...

Sorry Harry... I don't see your point...!

totster

[britmaveric]

Harry's vice is TBG- pretty much an obsession these days!

[Totster]

Harry's vice is TBG- pretty much an obsession these days! 

spose it makes a change from "studying" katoeys.... !

totster

[Harry Palmer]

one rai produces on the average about 300 Kg (10 bags) of rice per harvest...

fertiliser cost about 40 thb per rai...

the stuff sells for between 5 & 7 thb  per kilo...

a family of ten eats about 55 bags of rice per year, so that family of ten with a 25 rai farm makes somewhere between 30,000 and 40,000 thb per year...

...sure some areas have enough water for two harvests a year... sure they can sell the rice out of town, but that incurs transportation costs...

hardly surprising then that so many farming families send their best looking daughter to work in the whore-houses of bangkok or pattaya...

sword of justice & trusty shield of fair play...

Sorry Harry... I don't see your point...!

totster

the farmers are getting screwed... whilst many others sectors a rife with corruption...

pay them a fair price for their rice... they won't be so quick to pack off their daughters to work in the sex industry... less prostitutes=less farangs to prey on them... less sexually motivated farangs=a better thailand...

it's all to do with the The Economics Of Growing Rice...

[Heng]

Yeah, they have more rice than they could possibly eat. What a hellish existence (considering the millions of people in the world who barely get a cup of rice a week to eat), not being able to afford that Honda Wave.

[ParrotHead]

mmm, Don't forget the cost of labor to pick the rice. This past winter everybody wanted 150 baht per day. So 20 pickers for the day is 3000 baht. Yes, I too think rice farming is a poor way to make a living. I think there are too many rice farms.

But (at least in my village and all surrounding ones) no one can grow anything else in large quantites. Everyone has small gardens of different veggies, but the soil and weather patterns prohibit the mass production of anything else. So the people do what they have done for generations-grow rice. But I have found that people who have never had money do not know what to do with it when they get some. During harvest time, most of the money is blown on booze and cell phone calls. Some people do avidly save their money to purchase a tractor to replace their buffalo, a new buffalo, or a water pump. Luxuries are usually not an option, and most people are content with their lives. (And nobody goes hungry...)

However, things can go wrong, people die, disasters happen, sickness, etc, etc. that can leave a family dispondant. So, it's the FARANG to the rescue!

Yes it's true! Thank God for the Tourist Bar girl scheme to rescue families from poverty. Of course there are some negatives that go along with it, as with all things. But the positives far outweigh the negatives, at least in my case. Maybe I am just lucky, but I am not the only one.

[RamdomChances]

Actually much as I hate to admit it Harry's got a point, if anything he's exageration how much an average rice farmer will earn in a year.

The current gov stats are about 37,000 a family, but when you consider that this includes all the central plain farmers that can double crop, you can imagine how low it would be for a poor Issan farmer single croping. Out of 60 mill rai of cultivated rice land only 20 mill has proper irrigation, the rest releying onrain fall

...sure some areas have enough water for two harvests a year... sure they can sell the rice out of town, but that incurs transportation costs...

This is largly irrelevent as the vast majority of rice mills are also located out of town, rice is usually sold as paddy (whole rice) and is collected by an agent. You also seem a bit confused about the retail price of rice and the farmgate price.

The farmgate selling price for paddy is about 5200 bht a ton with an ave production of about 440 kg/rai this will produce finnished rice of about 330kg/rai.

The export price of rice is about 38,000 bht/ton, so while the farmer is getting 15,200(5,200x330) a ton, the mills and large agro companies have a mark up of 23,000 bht a ton on the finnished rice alone. They also get to sell the by products ,

"Lamb" the inside part of the rice between the husk and the seed, looks a bit like flour, 5000 bht a ton, used in animal feed.

"Grep" the outer husk, really cheap 400-800 bht a lorry load, used a bit like saw dust (chicken farms, brick manufacture).

Now you have seed costs, fertilizer (40 bht/rai is a bit optimistic), labour (150bht a day is about right) or hire costs for mechanical harvester ( not sure about 1000 bht an hour ?). The main probem is debt, the large fertilizer, seed, companies will advance the seeds fertilisers ect and accept payment on harvest, usually the crop is already morgaged to the rice mill. The level of debt rose from 22% of housholds in 1988 to 60% by 1995 with an ave debt of nearly 40,000 bht.

With the low % level of profit most rice farmers now are just struggling to pay of the intrest on their loan's. Many have defaulted on the land and had their land repossesed only to have it rented back to them, for a share of the rice.

Same with most areas of thai agriculture the large agro companies have basicaly got the farmers working for them and taking all the risk with very little profit.

Thailand is the biggest rice exporter in the world, a major sucsess story, but for who certinaly not the farmer, who unfortunatly is just seen as an exploitable resourse by his fellow countrymen.

Cheers RC

[penelope]

Actually much as I hate to admit it Harry's got a point, if anything he's exageration how much an average rice farmer will earn in a year.

The current gov stats are about 37,000 a family, but when you consider that this includes all the central plain farmers that can double crop, you can imagine how low it would be for a poor Issan farmer single croping. Out of 60 mill rai of cultivated rice land only 20 mill has proper irrigation, the rest releying onrain fall

...sure some areas have enough water for two harvests a year... sure they can sell the rice out of town, but that incurs transportation costs...

This is largly irrelevent as the vast majority of rice mills are also located out of town, rice is usually sold as paddy (whole rice) and is collected by an agent. You also seem a bit confused about the retail price of rice and the farmgate price.

The farmgate selling price for paddy is about 5200 bht a ton with an ave production of about 440 kg/rai this will produce finnished rice of about 330kg/rai.

The export price of rice is about 38,000 bht/ton, so while the farmer is getting 15,200(5,200x330) a ton, the mills and large agro companies have a mark up of 23,000 bht a ton on the finnished rice alone. They also get to sell the by products ,

"Lamb" the inside part of the rice between the husk and the seed, looks a bit like flour, 5000 bht a ton, used in animal feed.

"Grep" the outer husk, really cheap 400-800 bht a lorry load, used a bit like saw dust (chicken farms, brick manufacture).

Now you have seed costs, fertilizer (40 bht/rai is a bit optimistic), labour (150bht a day is about right) or hire costs for mechanical harvester ( not sure about 1000 bht an hour ?). The main probem is debt, the large fertilizer, seed, companies will advance the seeds fertilisers ect and accept payment on harvest, usually the crop is already morgaged to the rice mill. The level of debt rose from 22% of housholds in 1988 to 60% by 1995 with an ave debt of nearly 40,000 bht.

With the low % level of profit most rice farmers now are just struggling to pay of the intrest on their loan's. Many have defaulted on the land and had their land repossesed only to have it rented back to them, for a share of the rice.

Same with most areas of thai agriculture the large agro companies have basicaly got the farmers working for them and taking all the risk with very little profit.

Thailand is the biggest rice exporter in the world, a major sucsess story, but for who certinaly not the farmer, who unfortunatly is just seen as an exploitable resourse by his fellow countrymen.

Cheers RC

Dude, you know way too much about rice

[penelope]

but I am not the only one.

I hope some day you'll join us

and Issan will be as one.

[RamdomChances]

We all have our areas of expertise, harry's is Bar Girls and Katoys, mines farming

[splitlid]

Random Chances....the Bubba Gump of rice.....

Guess how many kinds of rice are kept in a bank (called genebank) at IRRI? 108,000 varieties!

It takes 5,000 liters of water to produce 1 kilo of rice.

A farmer must walk 80 kilometers to plow 1 hectare of rice land using a water buffalo (carabao).

Rice is eaten by nearly half of the world's population.

Thailand, Vietnam, India, and the USA are the top 4 countries in the world that export rice

Science has helped more than double world rice production from 260 to 600 million tons over the past 40 years.

Rice is the single largest food source for the poor.

AINT NOTHING HE DONT KNOW ABOUT RICE

[Crush]

Thai rice farmers do not have to travel thousands of miles to get laid like farangs do, so they don't have to worry about the rising costs of aviation fuel.

[Harry Palmer]

many thai people have come to believe that the average farang male is inherently inclined towards prostitutes and indulging in licentious behavior...

...since prostitution in thailand acts as just another showpiece in a rapidly blooming free-market society, many farang men erroneously believe that visiting a prostitute is acceptable, when in heir own country... society frowns upon such deviances...

...as farang men continue providing ample demand to fuel the prostitution sector of the underground economy, thai women continue to suffer from a lack of viable employment alternatives in other sectors. jobs available to most rural thai girls are limited to dishwashing in a noodle shop, hairdressing, and waitressing...

girls are effectively cut off from educational opportunities once they graduate from sixth or ninth grade (the end of their compulsory education).... due to the great symbolic debt owed to their parents, they are frequently tempted to abandon the dim prospects of their rural villages in search work in the cities...

many leave for the cities to work in factories or restaurants, only to find themselves in the hands of brothel owners...

[britmaveric]

Harry simple economics- market sets the price. There is a glut or over production of rice therefore prices drops. So basically you are damned either way.... stop producing so much, prices will rise and more people will be without work.

Prostitution will always be around and what is acceptable to you isn't necessary acceptable to everyone else.

[RamdomChances]

many Thai people have come to believe that the average farang male is inherently inclined towards prostitutes and indulging in licentious behaviour...

Actually I think that many Thai women look at falang men as being more faithful than thais, while it is true that the male falang visitor to Thailand does have a tendency to visit the odd bar these have a much higher profile and are much more visible than say the equivalent places for thais, or even most Asian tourists.

When was the last time you say a group of Japanese in bars in nana, or wherever, but such places do exist. Look at Hat Yai one of the biggest tourist spots in Thailand, but how many falangs go there? It’s full of Asian tourists coming over for a weekend of cheap sex.

So while the profile for falangs visiting the "girly" bars is very high I think you will find that %wise it isn’t.

...since prostitution in Thailand acts as just another showpiece in a rapidly blooming free-market society, many farang men erroneously believe that visiting a prostitute is acceptable, when in heir own country... society frowns upon such deviances...

I think you will find a high population of prostitution in England (or any other "falangland") as well, it’s just that men there behave more like the Asian tourists here, it’s kept behind closed doors. What about places like Soho, Amsterdam, ect. Ok small areas in large cities, but aren’t pat pong, and nana as well ?

...as farang men continue providing ample demand to fuel the prostitution sector of the underground economy, thai women continue to suffer from a lack of viable employment alternatives in other sectors. jobs available to most rural thai girls are limited to dishwashing in a noodle shop, hairdressing, and waitressing...

Thai women do suffer from lack of viable employment so do thai men its not gender specific, if anything you are exaggerating the opportunities available, but to say that this would change if falangs stopped using prostitution in naive, as the amount of girls involved in falang orientated prostitution is just the very visible tip of the iceberg.

girls are effectively cut off from educational opportunities once they graduate from sixth or ninth grade (the end of their compulsory education).... due to the great symbolic debt owed to their parents, they are frequently tempted to abandon the dim prospects of their rural villages in search work in the cities...

many leave for the cities to work in factories or restaurants, only to find themselves in the hands of brothel owners..

Have you looked at the enrolment figures of uni's I think the girls out number the boys about 2-1, so why are they effectively cut off from further education?

They are frequently tempted to work in the big city, most who go to work in factories or restaurants do just that, the ones who are going to work in bars, clubs ect just tell everyone that they are going to work in factories or restaurants.

Brothels cater to thai men not falang, they tend to get girls from bars.

If prostitution is to decline in Thailand poor rural women must be given a viable alternative, the majority of girls going to work bars, have children/failed marriages/relationships already with no chance of any support from the ex thai husband and little chance of meeting someone else then their options become very limited.

To blame all this on falangs going to bars is at best simplistic. It’s always easier to have a pop at the people in the limelight though.

Oh what’s this got to do with rice?

Cheers RC

[Totster]

RC... I was horrified when I read this.....

Actually much as I hate to admit it Harry's got a point

but then you redeemed yourself...

many Thai people have come to believe that the average farang male is inherently inclined towards prostitutes and indulging in licentious behaviour...

Actually I think that many Thai women look at falang men as being more faithful than thais, while it is true that the male falang visitor to Thailand does have a tendency to visit the odd bar these have a much higher profile and are much more visible than say the equivalent places for thais, or even most Asian tourists.

When was the last time you say a group of Japanese in bars in nana, or wherever, but such places do exist. Look at Hat Yai one of the biggest tourist spots in Thailand, but how many falangs go there? It’s full of Asian tourists coming over for a weekend of cheap sex.

So while the profile for falangs visiting the "girly" bars is very high I think you will find that %wise it isn’t.

...since prostitution in Thailand acts as just another showpiece in a rapidly blooming free-market society, many farang men erroneously believe that visiting a prostitute is acceptable, when in heir own country... society frowns upon such deviances...

I think you will find a high population of prostitution in England (or any other "falangland") as well, it’s just that men there behave more like the Asian tourists here, it’s kept behind closed doors. What about places like Soho, Amsterdam, ect. Ok small areas in large cities, but aren’t pat pong, and nana as well ?

...as farang men continue providing ample demand to fuel the prostitution sector of the underground economy, thai women continue to suffer from a lack of viable employment alternatives in other sectors. jobs available to most rural thai girls are limited to dishwashing in a noodle shop, hairdressing, and waitressing...

Thai women do suffer from lack of viable employment so do thai men its not gender specific, if anything you are exaggerating the opportunities available, but to say that this would change if falangs stopped using prostitution in naive, as the amount of girls involved in falang orientated prostitution is just the very visible tip of the iceberg.

girls are effectively cut off from educational opportunities once they graduate from sixth or ninth grade (the end of their compulsory education).... due to the great symbolic debt owed to their parents, they are frequently tempted to abandon the dim prospects of their rural villages in search work in the cities...

many leave for the cities to work in factories or restaurants, only to find themselves in the hands of brothel owners..

Have you looked at the enrolment figures of uni's I think the girls out number the boys about 2-1, so why are they effectively cut off from further education?

They are frequently tempted to work in the big city, most who go to work in factories or restaurants do just that, the ones who are going to work in bars, clubs ect just tell everyone that they are going to work in factories or restaurants.

Brothels cater to thai men not falang, they tend to get girls from bars.

If prostitution is to decline in Thailand poor rural women must be given a viable alternative, the majority of girls going to work bars, have children/failed marriages/relationships already with no chance of any support from the ex thai husband and little chance of meeting someone else then their options become very limited.

To blame all this on falangs going to bars is at best simplistic. It’s always easier to have a pop at the people in the limelight though.

Oh what’s this got to do with rice?

Cheers RC

totster

[Bangkok_Helicopter]

Harry...u sound like BEGS

It wouldnt matter how much rice the Thai pappa produced........

easy easy baht in NaNa, Pattaya etc.....

[Spee]

I think you will find a high population of prostitution in England (or any other "falangland") as well, it’s just that men there behave more like the Asian tourists here, it’s kept behind closed doors.

OT, nothing to do with rice ...

Your point is spot on in the US. Asian massage parlors (aka AMP) have been a booming business for about the last 15 years. The various asian mob factions can open 'em up, close 'em down and move the girls around enough so that even the john-laws that can't be bought off, don't have enough free time to keep up.

It's not all kept behind closed doors with the asians in asia either. Have you ever seen the huge red-light district in Yokohama Japan. It's all out in the open, window shopping just like Amsterdam, Brussels, etc. You can see if from the train window as the district is directly below the rails.

[RamdomChances]

RC... I was horrified when I read this..... 

Actually much as I hate to admit it Harry's got a point

Well they were not actually about the same subject, he did have a point about the relationship between rice farming and prostitution, however vauge.

If the 70% of people involved in agriculture were paid a decent wage there would be fesible options open to rural women.

Its just I think his focus is wrong, the small (nationaly)% of the falangs involved in the industrey dont really make that much difference.

Although I can see how he would think it does sat in england or some school in BKK.

[Crushdepth]

This thread is just bizzare, so here's weird twist:

One of my colleagues (in a development agency) had a project proposal cross his desk about reducing the incidence of HIV in poor rural communities by helping rice farmers shift to something more profitable - shrimp farming.

The project didn't get up because when the rice farmers start earning more money they visit brothels more often !

Just a stupid (true) story, I'm not taking sides.

[Totster]

RC.. When I said I was "horrified" it was because of the thought that HP actually had a point...!!... not that it was you that said it...

Anyway, back on topic...

Although I agree that if farmers got paid a better price for their rice it may lead to more prosperity in the region, and families being able to support their children through higher education.... the fact still remains that a large percentage of farmers farm for personal use. They don't have the land or the excess of crops to be able to sell for a profit... these are the families whose daughters may become BG's or enter that industry at some level.

totster

[RamdomChances]

Hmm nothing to do about the Thai Goverment actually banning shrimp farming in "designated freash water" areas then.

I love true stories.

[RamdomChances]

Toaster

Although I agree that if farmers got paid a better price for their rice it may lead to more prosperity in the region, and families being able to support their children through higher education.... the fact still remains that a large percentage of farmers farm for personal use. They don't have the land or the excess of crops to be able to sell for a profit... these are the families whose daughters may become BG's or enter that industry at some level.

I agree with you, but.......

More prosperity does not just mean sending your children to higher education(which without jobs to go to is worthless), but gives people more spending power, the more money spent in a local econamy directaly equates to more jobs, therefore increasing the spending power again.

Why do you think the west is so prosperaus, cos they spend money. Its a consumer sociaty, we want nice houses, cars, furniture,stuff ect someone has to make/supply these, this creates jobs at all levels.

Farmers only farm for personel use cos they have no other option, do you think its cos they want to? That is one of the points I was trying to get at, and its not really anything to do with falangs.

Ok I have a mixed dairy/arable farm, I dont do rice but we live in a farming comunityso know people that do. Admitedly we are on the central plain and it's not exactaly a poor area(good land lots of water), I cant speak from experiance about Issarn farmers cos I dont live there.

But (can you start a sentance with "but" who cares) to try and equate falangs using thai women as prositutes with the plight of poor rice farmers is boll#ks.

Got to got to bed soon as p1ssed and running out of fags (english meaning)

[medicinebox]

Got to got to bed soon as p1ssed and running out of fags (english meaning)

hahaha..... Don't you just hate it when that happens..