Dangerous Surf Season

[huggybear]

Just a reminder to all we are into that time of year where the sea can get really dangerous.

Many times the sand bottom can change pretty rapidly, cause a bit of a dugout which can create super mean undertows and rip tides.

I was at Nai Hairn beach on Sunday and watched a rip tide form really quickly. Meanwhile the gal that was in the rip tide, well, her boyfriend went up on the beach and walked away as she began to struggle. I went down and motioned for her to move to one side or the other of the rip tide and then to come into shore.

Remember, when caught in a rip current sucking out to sea, swim parallel to the shore and then come in. Don't exhaust yourself swimming against the current.

Be safe and enjoy the beach.

[T_Dog]

So how tall are the waves down there now? We were down there late last year in late May and had nice body surfing waves of about 4-5 feet but not consistent. How big are the seas when the rip currents start to become a problem?

[huggybear]

So how tall are the waves down there now? We were down there late last year in late May and had nice body surfing waves of about 4-5 feet but not consistent. How big are the seas when the rip currents start to become a problem?

can be 3-5 and somewhat stormy seas when you want to become leery of the water.

A rip current is pretty identifiable as you will see the churned up sand heading out to sea.

Lately my biggest beef with the lifeguards around here is they ALWAYS put out a red flag. People tend to ignore this when they see it everyday and they see people in the water. We need green (safe), yellow (caution) and then the red flag. But for the local lifeguards who can barely swim, the easiest thing is just to try and keep people out of the water.

[amanda76]

huggs, for someone who claims to be so aquatic in their liestyle, you sure have your facts back-a$$-wards.

I swim, regardless of warnings because I choose to not live in that realm of paranoia. I feel safer in the water today than I do on calm days. It is my ZEN. The warning signs just mean I won't bump into anyone.

As for Life Guards? Are there life guards?

A rip current is a strong surface flow of water returning seaward from near the shore (not to be confused with an undertow).

Undertow (often and incorrectly used for a rip current) is a strong subsurface flow of water returning seaward from the shore resulting usually from wave action.

It really depends on what the bottom is like. Undertow, hence the words Under-meaning ... under and tow, meaning to tow or to drag.

Under+Tow = Undertow. Current from beneath. It comes from a high incline at the beachhead. When the force of the wave is suddenly stopped by a steeper incline, sucumbing to ... gravity. The resulting action is the UNDERTOW, whereas, the weight of the the wave rushes back, against gravity, causing a force greater or equal to the next wave. This water is now moving along a high inclination, downwards. This returning water creates a current, and the current is otherwise known as... An Undertow. The returning water stays along the path of the inclination and stirs up the bottom. Swim on the surface, and you will most likely realize that they look more dangerous than they really are. Coincidencally, the undertow stops before the point where the Wave begins to break because it looses momentum. Swim past there, and it is a truly peacelful blue, with many fish near the surface. The sound of the rain on the water, and the sheer terror that has your heart racing. To swim when the cards are against you.

Rip Currents are also known as "rip tide" or "riptides", though the occurrence is not related to tides. Colloquially a rip current is known simply as a rip. Although rip currents would exist even without the tides, tides can make an existing rip much more dangerous - especially low tide.

To put it simply, when water lingers, it begins to run off. As is runs of, the weight of the water, (reohologically speaking) creates a current, or RIP. A rip is a fast moving volume of water moving over the surface because of RUN OFF.

toodles

~a~

Edited June 24, 2008 by amanda76

[LeungKen]

Amanda,

I think Huggybear was posting a warning for tourists who perhaps don't know the area.

I thought it was sensible advice, as caution should be foremost when swimming in the waters off this west coast of Phuket during the low-season.

If you are a strong swimmer and know your local beach intimately, then kindly disregard Huggy's well intentioned advice.

Cheers

Ken

P.S. Do you swim if there is an electrical storm happening ?

[steelepulse]

Thanks for that copy and paste about rips and undertows. I learn something new every day from the witty and intelligent folks of this forum.

Edited June 24, 2008 by steelepulse

[huggybear]

I swim, regardless of warnings because I choose to not live in that realm of paranoia. I feel safer in the water today than I do on calm days. It is my ZEN. The warning signs just mean I won't bump into anyone.

Trained as a lifeguard (one word, ~a~), nationally ranked swimmer in my youth, lifelong surfer ~a~.

Your above statement reflects that "body of water" you grew up next to in Bakersfield. Please know, last year a group of California kids that think like you do, drowned at Karon. They thought it was cool no one was in the water too.

Bye-Bye

[adgroom]

thanks for the warning, I was at katanoi the other day and it was pretty dam_n dangerous. definitely be wary

[huggybear]

huggs, for someone who claims to be so aquatic in their liestyle, you sure have your facts back-a$$-wards.

Also, lets be careful ~a~ regarding terminology vs. reality.

Terminology that you might find when you "google" those words, then C&P, might be a lot different than when the same term is used by someone who has been living on the beach for 43 years, and having dealt with big water on five different continents.

Let me make an anology: The term "Clown".

If you "google" the term "clown", you might find many results showing a person in makeup, with funny hair, a bulbous nose, intending to amuse the masses. Krusty, Bozo etc.

In reality, the term is often used to describe someone who states their found misinformation as their knowledge, and then states this misinformation as the truth. Also, someone who puts themselves and then others at irresponsible unnecessary risk, is often described as "a clown".

Terms found in a book, many times are used differently in reality, is my point.

[amanda76]

Oh man. I give up. I try to take the pish, and wham.

Delete me.

Please.

Delete me and my account.

Huggy, you win, I quit.

Last Post

[retirednavyman]

huggs, for someone who claims to be so aquatic in their liestyle, you sure have your facts back-a$$-wards.

Also, lets be careful ~a~ regarding terminology vs. reality.

Terminology that you might find when you "google" those words, then C&P, might be a lot different than when the same term is used by someone who has been living on the beach for 43 years, and having dealt with big water on five different continents.

Let me make an anology: The term "Clown".

If you "google" the term "clown", you might find many results showing a person in makeup, with funny hair, a bulbous nose, intending to amuse the masses. Krusty, Bozo etc.

In reality, the term is often used to describe someone who states their found misinformation as their knowledge, and then states this misinformation as the truth. Also, someone who puts themselves and then others at irresponsible unnecessary risk, is often described as "a clown".

Terms found in a book, many times are used differently in reality, is my point.

Nice spin on it!

[catwho]

Hope the surf is good next week,be there fo a 2 week surf, stay at kalim each year 2 or 3 times,clean and 4 to 6ft when on,easy paddle out.katanoi is good too but only for the exsperinced.

And huggy, good advice,GOOD to see,i'd like to see an exchange between australian and thailand life savers through the movement,i live in pattaya,but if anyone whos in the know in phuket 'its just a thought.

cat

[geriatrickid]

Often we see reports of people that drown under odd circumstances. I can think of a few cases over the years where the deceased's family would claim criminal acts were involved because they could not believe that the person would go swimming in dangerous conditions. Well, now you can see for yourselves why some drownings occur.

I swim, regardless of warnings because I choose to not live in that realm of paranoia. I feel safer in the water today than I do on calm days. It is my ZEN. The warning signs just mean I won't bump into anyone.~a~

The part about the Zen is lovely, poetic even. Perhaps you can get them to put that on your burial urn or box. However, it's "people" like you that can get others killed when they are obliged to go out and rescue you or recover your corpse. I think you might have a different take on things if you could see a couple of bloated corpses or partially drowned cases with their permanent brain damage.

Neptune has a tendancy to put his trident into the plump buttocks of naysayers.

[steelepulse]

>>And huggy, good advice,GOOD to see,i'd like to see an exchange between australian and thailand life savers.

There actually was an article in the gazette a while back about some Aussie's coming over hear and teaching. On the downside in the same article the local life saving group was saying that their million baht a month budget wasn't enough to maintain their jetskis and trucks ( <deleted> as I've never seen any jet skis in use by lifeguards. Only jet ski's I've seen are the ones that are rented out to tourists.)  Also of note in the article the lifeguards were saying that sometimes it was too dangerous for them to go out and rescue someone.  

So it appears that the best lifeguarding to be had is to stay out of the water if you're not sure of the conditions.

[huggybear]

Hope the surf is good next week,be there fo a 2 week surf, stay at kalim each year 2 or 3 times,clean and 4 to 6ft when on,easy paddle out.katanoi is good too but only for the exsperinced.

And huggy, good advice,GOOD to see,i'd like to see an exchange between australian and thailand life savers through the movement,i live in pattaya,but if anyone whos in the know in phuket 'its just a thought.

cat

Hi cat,

surf has been pretty good lately and with the passing storms, you're probably going to get it. As you are familiar with Kalim, you know, be careful on a low tide, lotsa rocks.

As far as the lifegauard exchanges, they do bring in some Australians for some training, but as soon as they are gone, the boys are back to hanging at the tower, goofing around, sleeping. No such thing as running the beach, and swimming. When there does come an emergency the best they do is throw a rope out with a big buoy ball attached. They drowned someone I knew last year when he had a heart attack in the water.

Enjoy your holiday cat !

[chickencurry]

So how tall are the waves down there now? We were down there late last year in late May and had nice body surfing waves of about 4-5 feet but not consistent. How big are the seas when the rip currents start to become a problem?

can be 3-5 and somewhat stormy seas when you want to become leery of the water.

A rip current is pretty identifiable as you will see the churned up sand heading out to sea.

Lately my biggest beef with the lifeguards around here is they ALWAYS put out a red flag. People tend to ignore this when they see it everyday and they see people in the water. We need green (safe), yellow (caution) and then the red flag. But for the local lifeguards who can barely swim, the easiest thing is just to try and keep people out of the water.

We've been saying exactly the same thing about the red flags. On Nai Harn beach the red flags are out every day now, whether the sea is rough or calm, and no sign of any lifeguards in their towers. It's just like crying wolf - after a while, people just ignore the flags if they see them every day. Certain to be a fatality sooner or later regrettably. Red, yellow and green system would be much better.

[Ping]

Oh man. I give up. I try to take the pish, and wham.

Delete me.

Please.

Delete me and my account.

Huggy, you win, I quit.

Last Post

Congratulations Huggybear. Do you keep notches in your belt? Amanda, as with all communities, there will be people at TV who will offend you (mainly the immature). If you simply ignore them, you will find your posting experience far more rewarding.

[LivinLOS]

Hope the surf is good next week,be there fo a 2 week surf, stay at kalim each year 2 or 3 times,clean and 4 to 6ft when on,easy paddle out.katanoi is good too but only for the exsperinced.

And huggy, good advice,GOOD to see,i'd like to see an exchange between australian and thailand life savers through the movement,i live in pattaya,but if anyone whos in the know in phuket 'its just a thought.

cat

I would say the other way round no ?? Kalim is rocky and often shallow, minor screw ups there can have you falling hard onto rocks (and I have never seen a headguard / helmet in Thai water) whereas Kata Noi has at least a sand beach break.

[Old Croc]

Sometimes Amanda reminds me of ~Uma~

[LivinLOS]

Those decrying the state of the dangerous rips ought to go and look at some real ocean power.. Go watch Uluwatu pumping in 25+ foot faces over an almost dry reef.. Try fuc_king your take off on that puppy.. Waves larger than a house putting you through the spin cycle.

Phuket has a baby of an ocean, Andaman shelf is nice and shallow, wave action dissipated.. Of course you do need to know not to panic, to swim sideways in a rip, to remain calm. The deaths each year have far more to do with unfit people who have zero water skills than a dangerous location. You will see rips and channels on almost any coast.

[huggybear]

Those decrying the state of the dangerous rips ought to go and look at some real ocean power.. Go watch Uluwatu pumping in 25+ foot faces over an almost dry reef.. Try fuc_king your take off on that puppy.. Waves larger than a house putting you through the spin cycle.

Phuket has a baby of an ocean, Andaman shelf is nice and shallow, wave action dissipated.. Of course you do need to know not to panic, to swim sideways in a rip, to remain calm. The deaths each year have far more to do with unfit people who have zero water skills than a dangerous location. You will see rips and channels on almost any coast.

"Those decrying the state of the dangerous rips ought to go and look at some real ocean power"

I missed the decrying part, just stating that here there are some dangerous rips at times combined with inexperienced water people, is trouble. Yes actually, have surfed ULU, places similar where the rips are actually convenient ways to get outside. At least ULU has an angle to cut down on the inside hammerings, give Blacks a go in San Diego when it gets big, there you're hoping for a rip.

[huggybear]

Oh man. I give up. I try to take the pish, and wham.

Delete me.

Please.

Delete me and my account.

Huggy, you win, I quit.

Last Post

Congratulations Huggybear. Do you keep notches in your belt? Amanda, as with all communities, there will be people at TV who will offend you (mainly the immature). If you simply ignore them, you will find your posting experience far more rewarding.

HOORAY FOR PING !

HOORAY AT LAST !

HOORAY FOR PING !

HE'S THE HORSES a*S !

[LeungKen]

Oh man. I give up. I try to take the pish, and wham.

Delete me.

Please.

Delete me and my account.

Huggy, you win, I quit.

Last Post

Amanda,

As the Eagles mentioned in "Hotel California"

You can checkout any time you like,

But you can never leave!

So unfortunately unless Thai Visas rules change you are here for eternity

[catwho]

Hope the surf is good next week,be there fo a 2 week surf, stay at kalim each year 2 or 3 times,clean and 4 to 6ft when on,easy paddle out.katanoi is good too but only for the exsperinced.

And huggy, good advice,GOOD to see,i'd like to see an exchange between australian and thailand life savers through the movement,i live in pattaya,but if anyone whos in the know in phuket 'its just a thought.

cat

I would say the other way round no ?? Kalim is rocky and often shallow, minor screw ups there can have you falling hard onto rocks (and I have never seen a headguard / helmet in Thai water) whereas Kata Noi has at least a sand beach break.

Kalim is only for surfing,the rocks form the break when there is enough water under them,same as all reef breaks,you will only see surfers out when enough water under them,its not a heavy wave,that sends u to the bottom,i have never touch the bottom there,but have many times on others,

katanoi is a good wave but for an old bloke like me too hard a paddle

[LivinLOS]

I would say only very highest tide is safe for novices (like me) at Kalim.. Had a couple of bangs just from body boarding and cant imagine how hard a landing you would have if you pitched into the trough on a bad launch.

I tend to be leary of reef breaks..

[chickencurry]

And here's the first one of the wet season ....

KATA: A Korean man drowned off Kata Beach about 11 am yesterday after being dragged out to sea while trying to save his wife, who had swum into difficulty.

Hun Sang Suk, 46, had swum out to rescue his wife, who had been dragged away from the shore by strong currents, said Lt Ratthaket Mingmuang of Chalong Police Station.

"The red flags were up at the beach, but they still went swimming. I saw that there were strong waves that looked dangerous there," he said.

More can be found on following link...

http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/index.asp?id=6593

Very sad.... people, take care.

Edited June 28, 2008 by chickencurry

[khall64au]

So how tall are the waves down there now? We were down there late last year in late May and had nice body surfing waves of about 4-5 feet but not consistent. How big are the seas when the rip currents start to become a problem?

can be 3-5 and somewhat stormy seas when you want to become leery of the water.

A rip current is pretty identifiable as you will see the churned up sand heading out to sea.

Lately my biggest beef with the lifeguards around here is they ALWAYS put out a red flag. People tend to ignore this when they see it everyday and they see people in the water. We need green (safe), yellow (caution) and then the red flag. But for the local lifeguards who can barely swim, the easiest thing is just to try and keep people out of the water.

We've been saying exactly the same thing about the red flags. On Nai Harn beach the red flags are out every day now, whether the sea is rough or calm, and no sign of any lifeguards in their towers. It's just like crying wolf - after a while, people just ignore the flags if they see them every day. Certain to be a fatality sooner or later regrettably. Red, yellow and green system would be much better.

This is a very serious topic! Forget the slanging match you lot - we see this topic repeated YEAR AFTER YEAR! And year after year WE SEE NO SERIOUS EFFORT present here on Phuket teaching local "life guards" how to make the beaches safer for the FIVE MILLION TOURISTS who spend their hard earned currencies here each year.... except world leader in surf life-saving - Australia - sending an annual volunteer team for training workshops.

AND EVERY YEAR we see the same sorry stories about tourists drowning on the very beaches where these trained "life guards" are stationed. Nai Harn has a jet ski that is corroding beside the life guard tower. It never reaches the water. I don't believe the "life guards" can even swim - since its the local farang surfers who make most rescues for swimmers in trouble while the "life guards" watch from shore.

I think it's time the TAT and the local "authorities" take responsibility and pro-actively regulate the professional actvities of so-called "Life Guards". ... and finally make the beaches safe.

After all, how many tourist brochures state: WARNING - PHUKET'S BEACHES ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TO SWIMMERS BETWEEN MARCH AND NOVEMBER..... IF YOU ARE SUCKED UP IN AN UNDERTOW, DON'T EXPECT HELP BY THAI LIFEGUARDS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT

TRAINED TO INTERNATIONAL SURFLIFE SAVING STANDARDS AND ... ACTUALLY THEY CAN'T SWIM LET ALONE OPERATE A JETSKI!

[bigbadbob]

I agree with everything that has been said, even amanda. I am not taking sides, but...

I think if you are an inexperienced swimmer, don't go swimming when no one else is. if everyone is swimming, by all means, go.

I know amanda, and I swim with her (occasionally) out of kata and around poo island when it is calm to moderate. She goes whenever, and now mostly swims at night because of all the guys hitting on her. She is hot tempered and probably has a crush on huggybear, (you guys should just make out already) but she was swimming across the width, (not length) of the pool taking 3 breaths, when she was 8 months old. She is a strong and powerful swimmer, however...

rips or tides or experience aside, i have seen it pretty rough here, and do not advise anyone to go swimming when the flag is up.

the topic starter has very good advice and more people should listen.

but if you are waiting for a thai lifeguard to come, you might as well have brought beer and bullets...

They don't care about you. They don't care if you drown. Swim at YOUR OWN RISK.

A friend who has lived here since 1974 told me to always remember, the Thai's ask themselves this question before doing anything... "what's in it for me?" If I go out there and save him/her, what do I get for my effort?

I agree. They don't make you go out there, you choose to yourself.

The beach is very safe. The water however...

bob

[huggybear]

I agree with everything that has been said, even amanda. I am not taking sides, but...

I think if you are an inexperienced swimmer, don't go swimming when no one else is. if everyone is swimming, by all means, go.

I know amanda, and I swim with her (occasionally) out of kata and around poo island when it is calm to moderate. She goes whenever, and now mostly swims at night because of all the guys hitting on her. She is hot tempered and probably has a crush on huggybear, (you guys should just make out already) but she was swimming across the width, (not length) of the pool taking 3 breaths, when she was 8 months old. She is a strong and powerful swimmer, however...

rips or tides or experience aside, i have seen it pretty rough here, and do not advise anyone to go swimming when the flag is up.

the topic starter has very good advice and more people should listen.

but if you are waiting for a thai lifeguard to come, you might as well have brought beer and bullets...

They don't care about you. They don't care if you drown. Swim at YOUR OWN RISK.

A friend who has lived here since 1974 told me to always remember, the Thai's ask themselves this question before doing anything... "what's in it for me?" If I go out there and save him/her, what do I get for my effort?

I agree. They don't make you go out there, you choose to yourself.

The beach is very safe. The water however...

bob

Good post bob, I dig the mixture of humour,seriousness and good info. Welcome to the Forum.

Cheers,

HB

[huggybear]

I agree with everything that has been said, even amanda. I am not taking sides, but...

I think if you are an inexperienced swimmer, don't go swimming when no one else is. if everyone is swimming, by all means, go.

I know amanda, and I swim with her (occasionally) out of kata and around poo island when it is calm to moderate. She goes whenever, and now mostly swims at night because of all the guys hitting on her. She is hot tempered and probably has a crush on huggybear, (you guys should just make out already) but she was swimming across the width, (not length) of the pool taking 3 breaths, when she was 8 months old. She is a strong and powerful swimmer, however...

rips or tides or experience aside, i have seen it pretty rough here, and do not advise anyone to go swimming when the flag is up.

the topic starter has very good advice and more people should listen.

but if you are waiting for a thai lifeguard to come, you might as well have brought beer and bullets...

They don't care about you. They don't care if you drown. Swim at YOUR OWN RISK.

A friend who has lived here since 1974 told me to always remember, the Thai's ask themselves this question before doing anything... "what's in it for me?" If I go out there and save him/her, what do I get for my effort?

I agree. They don't make you go out there, you choose to yourself.

The beach is very safe. The water however...

bob

Good post bob, I dig the mixture of humour,seriousness and good info. Welcome to the Forum.

Cheers,

HB

P.S. surfed Kata yesterday 2-3, it was like playing in sparkling wine, lovely day. We're all blessed to be here.