How Many Days' Stay?

[chuang]

Hi there,

My one year multiple-entry retirement visa expire on the 22 Feb 2004.

I would be going to Chiangmai on the 2nd of Feb for a renewal/extension.

Upon arrival on the 2nd Feb, how many days will the immigration allow me to stay in Thailand, with the number of days stamped in my passport . Bear in mind my visa expire on the 22 Feb....regards..

[Roger13]

Chuang - where are you now?

In Thailand or outside of Thailand?

If you are Entering Thailand on

2nd February - I would expect you to be given 90 days.

It would be Interesting to hear what others think.

My opinion assumes that the Visa that expires

on 22nd February is your original Retirement Visa and not an Extension.

You cannot RENEW a Retirement Visa - you can only extend it.

Or get a New one in your Home Country

A doubt in my mind is whether Immigration will expect you

to process an extension PRIOR to 22nd February - even

though I would expect them to give you a stay of 90 days

on a Non Imm Visa upon arrival.

Have I understood your situation correctly?

Roger

[Indo-Siam]

I agree that you will be given a 90 day entry permit, upon entry with a valid non-immigrant visa - regardless of how many days validity are left on that visa.

Good luck!

Indo-Siam

[chuang]

Thanks Roger,

I am at present in Singapore and the visa is an original , not an extension...

[chuang]

Roger, I forget another point....

If I am given an extension and it is valid for another year till say 21 FEb 2005, can I stay in Thailand more than the 90-day stay that the immigration stamped in my passport on the 2nd Feb, ( my arrival date ), or do I have to exit the country after the 90-day stay ( given the fact now that my extension visa allows me to stay till 21 Feb 2005....thanks again...

[huski]

If I am given an extension and it is valid for another year till say 21 FEb 2005, can I stay in Thailand more than the 90-day stay that the immigration stamped in my passport on the 2nd Feb, ( my arrival date ), or do I have to exit the country after the 90-day stay ( given the fact now that my extension visa allows me to stay till 21 Feb 2005....thanks again...

If you receive a one year extension from THAI Immigration based on your retirement visa you won't have to leave in 90 days. Also, in the following year(s) you can get another one year extension based on the original retirement visa if you still meet all of Immigration's requirements.

Make sure to report your local address to THAI Immigration every 90 days as that is required.

If you would like to leave the Kingdom make sure to first get a re entry permit before leaving or you will lose your extension.

[chuang]

Thanks a lot Huski......

[Roger13]

Hi Chuang,

First please do read what I have just posted under

another thread "Retirement Visa Questions"

- originaled by "Old Fart" at:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5774&hl=

If you are granted an extension it will finally be for 12 months

from your entry into the kingdom.

So - if you are arriving 2nd February (TODAY ?!?)

Your (ultimate) extension will be to 1st February 2005

BUT - you might initially be given just a one month extension.

Once you have your Ultimate extension to

1st Februay 2005 - you do not have to leave the Kingdom at all.

Providing you continue to process your Annual extensions

during the say 7 to 10 days prior to its expiry date.

Now to revert to the doubt that I expressed earlier.

Normally you are requried to wait until the last 30 days

of your 90 days before applying for an extension.

So NORMALLY you would apply during April for your First extension.

BUT - most people I guess do apply for an extension

during their First Visit on a Non Imm Visa.

You will now be applying during your "Last" visit on a Multi

Non Imm - where I guess there is very little past experience.

Your Mulit Visa expires on 22 February - so as I said before

- Is it possible you might have to seek an extension before

THAT date - I doubt it - but it is a question which I think

you need to get an answer to.

Having said all that - some people have reported here

that they were able to process their extension during

their first 30 days of their 90 days stay.

TWO things to bear in mind.

Immigration officers do seem to have a lot of Discretion

which - In MY OPINION - they are ready to use in favour

of well dressed respectful applicants.

Secondly not everything written on this Forum should be

accepted without question. Some disturbed people can post

untruths.

So when someone says they were given something unusual

- they might be a mischievous "Troll" - or they might be a

Lucky / well dressed polite individual.

So Chuang - good luck - please do let us know how you get on.

Roger

OH - just to reiterate what others have said:

If you leave the Kingdom you MUST get

a Re-Entry Permit or your Retirement extension

will automatically finish & you will have to start again.

Re-Entry permits are valid until your extension expiry date.

AND - You must report your Address anytime you stay

in the Kingdom for more than 90 days - this is quite a

SEPARATE exercise

[chuang]

Hi there, just to give an answer to my question posted..my actual experience in Chiangmai..concerning retirement visa renewal..

As I said before my visa expired on the 22 Feb... I arrived Chiangmai on the 3 Feb.

and was allowed to stay till the 22 Feb, duly stamped in my passport, and not 30-days or 90-days as some readers think so. I re-comfirmed with the immigration officers/office both inside and outside the arrival hall and was told this was correct.

As for my visa renewal no problem at all, got it done in less than an hour with a multiple-entry permit.

The 800k needs not be wired from overseas as long as your bank book shows this amount and a letter from your local Thai bank.

Medical certificate is a bliss, go to Chiangmai Ram Hospital, tell them you need it for visa application, check your BP, tap here and there and it was done in 15 mins for 50 baht.

Well the visa renewal fee is 1900B, the multiple re-entry is 3800B..not cheap at all..

So long......

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The doctor fee was very very cheap.....what would the visa fee be ANYWHERE in the west ?

[huski]

glad everything worked out for you at immigration

Hi there, just to give an answer to my question posted..my actual experience in Chiangmai..concerning retirement visa renewal..

just to clarify something, it sounds like you received a one year visa extension from thai immigration based on your retirement visa not a visa renewal.

the multiple re-entry is 3800B..not cheap at all..

the price you quoted is for a multiple re entry permit, that is good that you also received that in case you leave thailand and then re enter.

make sure to report your local thai address to immigration every 90 days, as this is a requirement. if you do leave thailand, the 90 day reporting in will start again from the day you re enter thailand.

[JimGant]

As I said before my [multiple entry retirement]visa expired on the 22 Feb... I arrived Chiangmai on the 3 Feb.

and was allowed to stay till the 22 Feb, duly stamped in my passport, and not 30-days or 90-days as some readers think

A lot of confusion going around re "retirement visas." And a lot of great inputs from the likes of Doc, Roger13, Redwood13, and many others. Let me present what I understand from this, and several other threads on this subject of 'retirement visa,' then you all ping away and then lets see if we can solidify things.

First, the quote above is a composite from Chuang. My take is that Chuang has a "Non Immigrant O-A" (NIOA) visa (the so-called 'retirement visa' only obtainable from outside Thailand), not a "Non Immigrant O" (NIO) visa. This NIOA visa allows its holder to stay UP TO 365 days -- but apparently only UP TO the date of expiration, in his case, 22 Feb 2004, which implies the NIOA date of issue was 23 Feb 2003. If it actually was an NIO, then Chuang would have gotten a 90 day stay when he returned to Thailand on 3 Feb 2004.

Now, what Chuang has apparently just gotten from Chiang Mai immigration, since his NIOA "retirement visa" expires 22 Feb, is an "extension of stay based on retirement," plus a second stamp in his passport allowing multiple-entries. He, then, has arrived at what most retirees (with only an NIO) do from the gitgo: an 'extension of stay based on retirement', plus an optional (for 3800 bt) multiple-entry stamp.

Redwood13, per another thread started by"Jazzbo," just got his NIOA "retirement visa." His honorary Consulate in the States asked for his airplane ticket date, which I can only surmise means they postdated his NIOA 'date of issue' to his expected arrival date. Pretty cool, as this gives him the full 365 days of visa life. He also got his NIOA as 'multiple entry,' like Chuang, which allows him to jump in and out of Thailand during the visa's 365 day life. BUT, unlike an NIO visa, where you can get another 90 days past the date of visa expiration, with an O-A visa, 365 days counts down from 'date of issue. So, if you arrive back in Thailand on 3 Feb, like Chuang, you only get until NIOA visa expiration date, not another 365 day stay.

There's a lot of argument for and against getting an NIOA (which means doing all the foot and paperwork in your home country), or just getting a NIO and doing all the work in Thailand. And until Redwood13 shared his experience with an honorary Consulate in the States, I had thought the NIO/do it Thailand was the way to go. And it still may be -- at least there's no police report required when you do it in LOS, and the medical paperwork, too, might be cheaper if you don't have a regular doctor in your home country. But flexible Consulates and less stringent requirements (apparently no notary requirements in Redwood's case) could make the O-A route more attractive.

Some speculation here on my part, and hopefully Chuang will step in and confirm or clarify. But it does seem to me that a large area of confusion on this forum is confused definition, particularly the O-A visa, which as I see it, can only be obtained out of Thailand, and which gives you 365 days FROM DATE Of ISSUE to stay in Thailand. On the other hand, 'extension of stay based on retirement' is NOT an O-A visa. When you get this 'extension of stay,' you DON'T get an O-A "retirement visa." But, it's easy to see why the term 'retirement visa' has involved confusion betweee O-A and extension of stay of one's NIO visa. ('Marriage visa," too, is a misnomer, being nothing more than extension of your NIO based on family support.)

Anyway, a lot of good info on this forum to help make decisions. A lot, however, seems to get rehashed over and over, especially in this area of retirement visa procedures/options. Perhaps an updated FAQ page?

[huski]

Now, what Chuang has apparently just gotten from Chiang Mai immigration, since his NIOA "retirement visa" expires 22 Feb, is an "extension of stay based on retirement," plus a second stamp in his passport allowing multiple-entries. He, then, has arrived at what most retirees (with only an NIO) do from the gitgo: an 'extension of stay based on retirement', plus an optional (for 3800 bt) multiple-entry stamp.

i agree, that is what it sounds like chuang has in his passport now.

JimGant, not to open a new can of worms but i always thought getting a one extension from immigration would "register" yourself alittle differently on the immigration's computer and is considered more of a temporary residency.

i'm not sure on retirement visas, but with 3 consecutive years of one year extensions of non immigrant O visas, paying taxes, speaking thai, and a huge fee one can apply for permanent residency. there also is a quota per country and a long process i realize.

would Redwood13's method of not having extensions still qualify in the eyes of immigration towards permanent residency in 3 years?

[JimGant]

would Redwood13's method of not having extensions still qualify in the eyes of immigration towards permanent residency in 3 years?

huski,

I assume both Redwood13 and Chuang have O-A visas, so Redwood, like Chuang, will eventually have to apply for 'one year extensions' based on retirement. Then he'll be like everyone else who's here on 'one year extensions.' The only difference, as I see it, is that he didn't have to get his extension before the end of his 90-day entry stamp, but instead had 365 days (or until expiration of visa, if that comes sooner) until he had to get his first extension.

I guess another advantage of an O-A visa is that you're assured of at least 365 days of retirement in Thailand. I don't know how many folks have come here to retire on an Non Immigrant 'O' visa only to find out they don't qualify for some reason when the apply for that first one year extension during that first 90 days. But that would sure be a rude awakening. At least with an O-A you've 'passed the test' even before leaving home, and maybe this gives you further assurance of passing the test when you first sit down for your first one year extension. But maybe not.......

Redwood13 met the 800, 000 baht requirement (with equivalent $ amount in US bank) in Jan 2004. It will be interesting to see if he'll be grandfathered or not when he goes for his first extension many months after July, when rates are speculated to rise. It might be that only those who've had their first extension of stay before July qualify for grandfathering. Doubt if he would be allowed to extend before July, being so far ahead of when required. So, maybe an O-A, at least at this juncture, isn't too cool. Don't know.

[Roger13]

As I said before my visa expired on the 22 Feb... I arrived Chiangmai on the 3 Feb.

and was allowed to stay till the 22 Feb, duly stamped in my passport, and not 30-days or 90-days as some readers think so. I re-comfirmed with the immigration officers/office both inside and outside the arrival hall and was told this was correct.

As for my visa renewal no problem at all, got it done in less than an hour with a multiple-entry permit.

Hi Chuang'

I am very surprised that you were not given

another 90 days when you arrived on 3rd February at Chiang Mai.

There have been many posts on the Forum telling

members that you can get a Total of about 15 months

from a Multi Entry one year visa.

AND - I am surpirsed that MORE members have not expressed surprise.

I wonder if you would have been given 90 days at

Don Muang, Bangkok ...

I would like to hear Dr Pat's and George's reaction.

And Chuang you wrote "my visa renewal " - I hope you mean

one year extension - you did not tell us the expiry date of

your one year's extension - is it 2nd (or 3rd) February 2005?

And does your Re-Entry Permit expire the same date?

Roger

[Roger13]

Hi there,

My one year multiple-entry retirement visa expire on the 22 Feb 2004.

I would be going to Chiangmai on the 2nd of Feb for a renewal/extension.

Upon arrival on the 2nd Feb, how many days will the immigration allow me to stay in Thailand, with the number of days stamped in my passport . Bear in mind my visa expire on the 22 Feb....regards..

Hi Chuang,

After reading other members comments,

I have gone back to your original Post

quoted above.

Originally I thought that the Origial Visa

"Sticker" (or stamp) given to you at a

Thai Embassy abroad (Singapore ?) was a Multi Entry

Visa with an expiry of 22 February 2004. And that you

were using the Multi Entries to stay here

for up to 90 days each time.

But if you had an O-A visa as Jim Gant

suggests and you were given a 365 day

stay on your first arrival expiring on 22 February 2004

- that is a different situation. You would have

needed a Re-Entry Permit also expiring 22 February 2004

and your new one year extension would be to

22nd February 2005 ?

So when you wrote

"My one year multiple-entry retirement visa expire on the 22 Feb 2004."

Were you refering to a 365 day stay stamp given to you on arrival at

the Airport last year PLUS a Multi Re-Entry Permit?

If so that would explain why you were not given another 90 days

when you arrived on 3rd February 2004

Roger

[JimGant]

There's some cross threading on this O-A subject (my fault). Here's the link to the other thread that is pertinent to what's being said here.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=30entry53592

[Roger13]

Jim Gant

IMO - Chuang's situation is not clear - not to me anyway

Roger

[JimGant]

Roger,

Yeah, it is a bit hazy. Hope he checks in again and gives us some clarification.

I'm just guessing he, like Redwood13, has an NIOA visa, multiple entry. Redwood has entered Thailand at least twice on his visa, and both times was given a 'good for 365 days' stamp. Why Chuang also wasn't when he last entered Thailand is certainly not consistent with Redwood's experience. But what is consistent with Thai immigration?

[Roger13]

Redwood13, has an NIOA visa, multiple entry. Redwood has entered Thailand at least twice on his visa, and both times was given a 'good for 365 days' stamp

Jim,

I realise that looking for Logic is a bit Futile

But to be given 365 days twice is to me illogical.

For a NIOA to be Multi Entry is to me Illogical.

I would expect a NIOA to give you a one and only

365 days on your first arrival

and after that you should be on Re-Entry Permits and Annual renewals

OR Cancellation if you leave without either.

Roger

[JimGant]

I realise that looking for Logic is a bit Futile

Roger,

Yeah, I agree. Especially when it come to Thai immigration 'law.'

This NIOA animal appears to be new, at least the part of having an "M" in the 'Number of entry' block. In Redwood's case, the immigration officer saw what looked like the standard multi-entry NIO, except there was an 'A" attached. Somewhere in his education he'd been briefed that this means good for 365 days, not the usual 90. Whether he was correct, or the guy that handled Chuang was, I don't know -- hopefully we'll find out from additional facts, or someone knowledgeable stepping in.

What does seem clear, however, is that regardless of how much time Redwood has remaining on his entry stamp when his visa expires, he'll need an extension of visa and re-entry permit stamps if he wants to leave and reenter Thailand on retiree status after visa expiration date. The question he has, and a good one, is will the 365 day extension clock start on the date of his last reentry, or upon visa expiration date. I bet the latter, based on Chuang's experience, and common sense.

I like the NIOA, multiple entry visa idea. I can get off the plane and go through standard immigration just like normal people with normal visas. No need to go to the immigration teller windows and get a re-entry stamp (for 3800 baht). And for one year I can leave and reenter Thailand, and it doesn't have to be in 90 day chunks.

I haven't immigrated here yet, so I'm just getting my ducks lined up. And a lot of good and useful info here on this forum, although kinda scattered around. So, hope the saga of the NIOA visa resolves itself.

[harpman88]

Hello Jim,Im pretty much in the same boat you are,now just waiting for my pension date to be finalised here in the US.

All this stuff is an excellent example of how the "prevailing wisdom" can change so rapidly. For instance,on another thread,it was almost"gospel" that one had to enter LOS on a non-O before having any chance of getting the OA. Now ,suddenly, its possible to have a tourist visa changed to a Non-O while in LOS.and,of course, the OA stems from that.

I was totally convinced to enter LOS on a Non-O and then change to the OA extension during the last 30 days of of the Non-O,

but Im starting to think(as you are now also) that getting the Non-OA here in the U.S.,(with re-entry permits) could very well be the way to go. I will be dealing,by the way,with the Thai consulate in New Orleans,but my dealings with them in the past have only been for tourist visas,which were a breeze.Just also want to say that ur posts are obviously very well informed and written.

The saga continues! All the best "harpman 88"

[chuang]

Hello there everyone, sorry for the late input as I was away. just to clarify my visa situations...

Well, firstly I got my initial visa from the Thai Embassy in Singapore. It was a Non-Immigrant 'O-A' ( it is also refers to as a Retirement visa ) issued on the 28 Jan 2003. I arrived in Chiangmai on 23 Feb 2003 and was allowed to stay until the 22 Feb 2004.

I applied for and got a multiple re-entry permit for the above visa in Chiangmai as the Thai Embassy in Singapore does not issue multiple re-entry visa. The re-entry permit was stamped with a date valid until 22 Feb 2004.

In and out of Thailand, then I returned on the 3 Feb 2004 and was allowed to stay until 22 Feb 2004 as I stated in the thread before. I applied for an extension on the 10 Feb 2004 and it is valid untill 22 Feb 2005.

FYI a notice pasted on the Chiangmai Immigration wall states that aplication for visa extension has to be made within one month before the expiry date.

Regards....

[Roger13]

My one year multiple-entry retirement visa expire on the 22 Feb 2004.

Hi Chuang,

Thanks for clarifying.

When I read your above original quote

I interpreted it to mean you had

A One Year Multiple Entry Non Imm "O" Visa.

And my Original answer was based on that.

So now I understand that Interpretation was wrong.

You had a one year extension + Re-entry Permit.

And you now have a Further one year extension

- Congratulations.

Roger

[dr_Pat_Pong]

As I said before my visa expired on the 22 Feb... I arrived Chiangmai on the 3 Feb.

and was allowed to stay till the 22 Feb, duly stamped in my passport, and not 30-days or 90-days as some readers think so. I re-comfirmed with the immigration officers/office both inside and outside the arrival hall and was told this was correct.

As for my visa renewal no problem at all, got it done in less than an hour with a multiple-entry permit.

Hi Chuang'

I am very surprised that you were not given

another 90 days when you arrived on 3rd February at Chiang Mai.

There have been many posts on the Forum telling

members that you can get a Total of about 15 months

from a Multi Entry one year visa.

AND - I am surpirsed that MORE members have not expressed surprise.

I wonder if you would have been given 90 days at

Don Muang, Bangkok ...

I would like to hear Dr Pat's and George's reaction.

And Chuang you wrote "my visa renewal " - I hope you mean

one year extension - you did not tell us the expiry date of

your one year's extension - is it 2nd (or 3rd) February 2005?

And does your Re-Entry Permit expire the same date?

Roger

He misdescibed the visa. He is on an extended visa. He had to go to Immigration to get another year. On arrival in Thailand, the extension is always only until the end of the one year extension period.

[JimGant]

Chuang,

Thanks for the update. It now seems clear why you and Redwood had different experiences with your "O-A" visas.

You got the 'single entry' O-A version, which, until Redwood's situation, seemed to be the only option. He (Redwood) got the magic "M" embossed right on his "O-A" visa, so every time he reenters Thailand, up until the day before visa expiration, he gets a 365 day stamp. So far, he's gotten two of these 365-day stamps.

Your single entry O-A visa was just that: good for *one* 365-day stay. 'Reentry permit' and subsequent 'good until' entry stamps all expire at the end of that 365 day period, as you found out. Anyway, the multi-entry NOT being part of your original O-A visa is where I got tangled up.

The question for some of us out here is still whether or not an O-A visa is worth it. Redwood's experience, to include the "M" on the initial visa, lends attractiveness to obtaining one. However, if it was just 'single entry,' meaning I'd have to visit immigration early-on for a reentry permit, it might not be worth it, particularly if medical, police paperwork, notary crap, etc came more a hassle than Redwood experienced. Meeting the retirement hurdles and Extending an 'O" visa in-country still may be the best way to go. I've awhile to go for that, so hopefully more O-A experiences will be shared here.

Oh, out of curiosity, what were the police, medical, and notarized requirements like in Singapore? And, knowing what you do now, would you still go the O-A route (vice extending an 'O' visa) as your initial retirement process?

Many thanks.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Jim....Redwood's experience was very good, but most people find the O-A route a pain. In my view, the O extended in LOS is a much easier way to go. The O-A has the police clearance requirements, notorizations, and etc. Usually much more complex.

[huski]

Jim....Redwood's experience was very good, but most people find the O-A route a pain. In my view, the O extended in LOS is a much easier way to go. The O-A has the police clearance requirements, notorizations, and etc. Usually much more complex.

doctor pat pong is right, an extension may require the more expensive re entry permit to leave and come back into thailand, but i think is a better way to go for retired folks.

also after 3 one year extensions from thai immigration you may be able to apply for permenant residency...obtainable for retirees these days dr.?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Jim....Redwood's experience was very good, but most people find the O-A route a pain. In my view, the O extended in LOS is a much easier way to go. The O-A has the police clearance requirements, notorizations, and etc. Usually much more complex.

doctor pat pong is right, an extension may require the more expensive re entry permit to leave and come back into thailand, but i think is a better way to go for retired folks.

also after 3 one year extensions from thai immigration you may be able to apply for permenant residency...obtainable for retirees these days dr.?

Still able to apply after 3 years Huski. Even with the quota, one stands a good chance if one applies.

[chuang]

Hi Jim, the 'NIOA' multiple re-entry visa is suitable for me as I travelled in and out of Thailand often.

Applying for the visa in Singapore is not much of a problem for me as I am a Singaporean. The Thai Embassy needs a letter from my bank showing the minimun required sum of 800,000 baht.

A letter from the Singapore Police Dept. stating that I am free from any criminal record.

A letter from my doctor (any clinic) certified that I am free from..TB, leporsy, alcohol addiction etc etc (the form is obtainable from the Thai Embassy ).

But I wont be able to say how it would be for a non-Singaporean.......