mazeltov

Really texting his supporters- it's like some lover sick teenager seeking reassurance that he's still loved

he didn't send me a message, but Abhisit did. how would you that interpret?

Dunno - Depends what he said. But, I'd probably ask how he got my number? and if he has the number for Burger King and a good plumber as I'm hunger and the toilets broken.

That was a while ago, cant remember what he wrote exactly, something like. 'Greetings, it is me, Your PM, and i promise everything will be well soon. send a SMS to me if you wanna know more'.

It smelled fishy like your usual scam sale spam message you can get in e-mail. but i never get something like that on the phone before. It was on a post paid number, so i registered it with my passport and maybe even with my wp, but i never apply for a service to get messages from Abhisit, nor gave him otherwise my number. He should had actually knew that i am just a migrant with a wp and not a thai citizen. Anyway i hope he don't get 5 years jail now for trying to drag foreigners into issues of Thai domestic politics, that would be a little bit over the top.

For burger king it is the same number like for Pizza company, 1112. but burger king don't deliver everywhere in Bangkok.

Don't worry about your broken toilet, because someone flung some sh't bag into the soi where Abhisit lives, sh't, toilets and everything related will be forbidden soon by a special emergency law to protect us all.

Is cowardice and hypocrisy passed genetically?

Sippenhaft

Sippenhaft or Sippenhaftung (English: "kin liability" or "blood guilt") was a form of collective punishment practiced in Nazi Germany towards the end of the Second World War. It was a legal practice in which relatives of persons accused of crimes against the state were held to share the responsibility for those crimes, and were arrested and sometimes executed. Many people who had committed no crimes were arrested and punished under Sippenhaft laws introduced after the failed July 20 plot to assassinate Adolf Hitler in July 1944. A law of February 1945 also threatened death to the relatives of military commanders who showed what Hitler regarded as cowardice or defeatism in the face of the enemy.

...

It should be noted that other totalitarian regimes have used similar practices, even if they have not codified them in law. During Joseph Stalin's Great Purge of the 1930s many thousands of people were arrested and executed or sent to labour camps as "relatives of the enemies of the people"—including relatives of people, who unlike the demonstrated attempt on Hitler's life, were criminalized merely by Stalin's paranoia. ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sippenhaft

Really texting his supporters- it's like some lover sick teenager seeking reassurance that he's still loved

he didn't send me a message, but Abhisit did. how would you that interpret?

I don't tend to rely on army or governmental generosity to not abuse such laws in the developed let alone the developing world.

Whoopee. Army dictatorship by governmental proxy.

Exactly!

And that is EXACTLY where I believed Thaksin was heading with his ginned up fake bomb attack on him,

and other alleged acts against the state, of which he was SOLE controller and expired Caretaker PM.

at the time he was deposed.

He was clearly to many observers setting up exactly this worst case situation to make himself defacto dictator,

and of course we KNOW he is a compulsive liar and listens to know one, so logical discussion would likely go unheeded.

We have seen this ISA put to use before by the current administration and always it has been dropped at the end of term,

and power completely devolved to the PM after the threat was over. I find it difficult to believe Thaksin would have done

the same thing, since he was working to CREATE the situation, much AS HE IS RIGHT NOW,

working to create a situation he can regain full control...

I think this law should be amended, but arguing to not use it now, at all in this instance is not prudent,

since we have seen it's worst aspects never used in the previous instances.

But ALSO because we HAVE seen the worst aspects of this Red Shirt crew ALSO come to pass.

Between them running amok because getting the cabinet together to make decision took to long,

or having the ISA in place before hand, I'll vote for prudence and preparedness.

speculations, assumption, fiction, bias don't become true with an unorthodox way of using the the shift key.

Er, who mentioned violence, Mr. One Track?

"find a new place to live" it

was in the OP. How else do you think they are going to affect that without the use of violence?

it is ""find a new place to live" if he abused his power"

so if he abuse his power he should be somehow "removed", "looking for a new job", "time to say goodbye", or "find a new place to live" or how ever you will call it.

abuse of power should have some consequences, or not?

anyway, that little short The Nation article cannot be really the basis for a deep exegesis.

PAD pledges no action, but here it is, ever day ...

KASIT - LOL

Suthep promised big LULZ too:

"Suthep warned the red shirts that the authorities would not tolerate the disruption of traffic, the blockade of government installations and the seizure of airports." click

not to tolerate seizure of airports and blockade of government installations that can mean nothing else than a rethink of policies and a major cabinet reshuffle and the kick out some key members.

woah Newbie! you have all of 17 posts!

i wonder what moved you to join an adult discussion

no prizes for guessing who is paying you for your time....

I never really understand why posters have to go on with such dribble about how little others have posted. Unless they are making mistakes against forum rules, why would you care if he has 17 posts or 17,000? Do you have to do a certain amount of qualifying posts before your theory counts?

if you really cannot see the possible connection and the number of posts made in relation to the credibilty of the poster, then i might be moved to comment that that is very naive dribble indeed......

5555

Ulysses G. Posts: 16,141

neverdie Posts: 5,955

timekeeper Posts: 929

yes, i am the newbie here and i agree in this issue with ulysses and neverdie, but that has nothing to do with the low post count the timekeeper has compared with them.

The authorities will set up the Peace-keeping Operations Command, also known as the government's war room, ...

Suthep warned the red shirts that the authorities would not tolerate the disruption of traffic, the blockade of government installations and the seizure of airports.

-- The Nation 2010-03-10

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

5555

"Gentlemen. You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAeqVGP-GPM

not to tolerate the blockade of government installations and not tolerate the seizure of airports sounds like a hint or promise that a major cabinet reshuffle will coming.

lovely The Nation, i like the ambiguity of this news article.

In this one you state that "they" (the government) should have done something about the yellows at the airport and referred to them as terrorists. They (the government) were NOT the government when the Yellows were at the airport. The yellows were not terrorists. The thing about an internet discussion is that when you say something that is wrong, a lie, or just stupid, people will call you on it and show why (like here).

no i didn't. i didn't say the yellows are terrorists or claimed the the government in power then is the same like now.

i only pointed out that it is not totally off topic to bring the 'yellows' into the discussion.

anyway such kind of bickering is too boring for me. that is the downside of ' internet discussion' - the stupid people trying to be witty (like here).

Looks to me as though the government are just praying that there will be trouble and violence and are deliberately 'talking it up' BIG TIME.

They can then punish the Redshirts, pity they did'nt do the same with the Yellow shirts regarding the acts of terrorism at the Swamp

Hello?

Do you really think that the current government was in place when the yellows were at the airport? PS this thread isn't about the yellows and they weren't "terrorists".

hello?

in the ISA thread you told me i have make comparison with similar issues all over the world. why not here?

btw. do you know that members of the current government have been with the "yellows" at the airport?

could be seen as that they are being somehow the "role models" what is possible to do as a form of political protest and it isn't so far Off Topic if someone using that as an argument.

anyway. that yellow- red bickering becomes boring. it's enough to keep focus at the current action of the government.

and right now, nothing happend yet but the government comes up with the harshest emergency laws and does the best to create a climate of fear.

Note --- the legislation being discussed in the AI paper is NOT the current legislation. The draft bill was changed significantly as reported by the ICJ.

i quoted it for an additional reason.

Note --- what points are quoted in the first entry of this thread and which points the AI papers is about.

when will these far right authoritarians learn that they are not in the center and that there is a difference between "extremely liberal" and "extreme left"?

and i don't think that concerns about human right issues aren't exactly a very extreme political position. if you start to deny them, or coming up with arguments to justify that human rights should not be granted to everybody you are moving into an extreme corner.

I don't tend to rely on army or governmental generosity to not abuse such laws in the developed let alone the developing world.

Whoopee. Army dictatorship by governmental proxy.

Exactly!

the pure existence of point 10 in that ISA list makes Thailand to a failed state if the government really need such a law. if they will actually practise point 10 its over.

Then I guess you think that both Singapore and Malaysia are failed states as well. They both have far more severe ISA's have both used them far more then Thailand ever has.

TH

For that matter take a look at the US's Patriot Act and it didn't have to be called up each time it was/is needed.

The failed state argument certainly doen't hold water when you look at laws in other places!

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL

Public Statement

AI Index: ASA 39/010/2007 (Public)

News Service No: 155

10 August 2007

Thailand's Internal Security Bill -- sweeping powers for the military with little accountability

Amnesty International is concerned that the "Draft Act on the Maintenance of National Security in the Kingdom" (Draft Act), currently under review by Thailand's Council of State (the government's legal advisory body), would, if passed into law, violate international human rights standards and further jeopardise human rights in Thailand.

The Draft Act vests sweeping and ill-defined powers in the military, in particular the Commander-in-Chief, including powers to take command of state agencies, to carry out long-term detention, and to suppress groups and individuals perceived by him as posing a threat to national security. The Draft Act will also ensure impunity from prosecution for human rights violations perpetrated under its provisions.

Amnesty International acknowledges the challenges, including security challenges, facing Thailand, and the duty that the Thai authorities have to ensure the safety of the population. However, the organization is calling upon the authorities to face these challenges while protecting and respecting the human rights of all. In this context, a recent statement by the Defence Minister Boonrawd Somtas that the clashes between anti-coup protesters and the police on 22 July 2007 in Bangkok provided justification for the Draft Act is a cause for concern.1

The Draft Act proposes the creation of several bodies. The powers of these bodies are concentrated in the hands of one man -- the Director of a revived Internal Security Operation Command (ISOC) -- who is the "Royal Army Commander-in-Chief" (Article 9).

The following powers are among those which the Army Commander-in-Chief, in his capacity as the Director of ISOC, would be able to exercise:

The Draft Act contains no objective criteria and no procedures to declare a state of emergency or establish that the use of these powers is necessary or justified. The only requirement is the subjective determination by the Army Commander-in-Chief that "there appears to be" or "there is an instance" of "an act which is a threat to the national security in the Kingdom" (Articles 24, 25). Such acts are very broadly and vaguely defined, including not only acts of violence but also "trans-border crime," "propaganda" and "incitement" (Article 2). The powers given to the Army Commander-in-Chief can be used anywhere in Thailand at any time.

While Article 4 provides that there should be "checks and balances" on the exercise of power under this Act, there are no clear proposals beyond this generic provision to institute effective safeguards to ensure that the Army Commander-in-Chief's sweeping powers can be countervailed. The limited scrutiny by the courts further compounds the risk that powers will be arbitrarily exercised and abused.

Moreover, Amnesty International is seriously concerned that the Draft Act exempts all government officials who have committed crimes while acting in accordance with the act from any criminal or civil liability, or even disciplinary action, if they had exercised "functions honestly, in a non-discriminatory manner and within reason" (Article 37). Amnesty International opposes granting impunity for any human rights violation.

The organization is further concerned that with the enactment of this draft law, several key human rights would be in jeopardy of being violated with impunity. These rights are enshrined in the Universal Declaration on Human Rights and provided, among others, in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, to which Thailand is a state party. They include:

Freedom of movement

Freedom of assembly

Freedom from arbitrary detention

The right to fair trial procedures

The right to privacy

Amnesty International's research has shown that where legislation gives the military or other authorities special powers in contravention of international human rights standards, they facilitate other human rights violations beyond those that such legislation leads to in the first instance. These further violations have often included violations of the right to life and freedom from torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

As Amnesty International has reported in the past, Thailand has for decades enacted wide-ranging and vaguely worded Emergency Decrees and Martial Law, granting the military sweeping powers, particularly in the south. These have resulted in human rights violations, and have not brought peace or security. The Draft Act, if passed, would further entrench the legacy of impunity which has characterised recent Thai history. For example, investigations into the deaths of almost 200 people, caused by the security forces' ill-treatment and excessive use of lethal force, during the violent suppression of attacks by armed groups on government facilities in three southern provinces on 28 April 2004, and during the Tak Bai demonstrations on 25 October 2004, have not resulted in those responsible being brought to justice. In addition, the enforced disappearances of more than 20 people since the escalation of violence in the south in 2004 remain unsolved.

To ensure respect for human rights, the Thai government must investigate, prosecute and hold accountable those suspected of crime, including of violent crime, using normal civilian laws and criminal procedures in civilian courts, rather than resorting to human rights violations in fighting threats to national security.

The Draft Act, as currently formulated, is in breach of international human rights law and standards, and accordingly, it should not be passed by the National Legislative Assembly (NLA). Amnesty International therefore calls upon the Thai authorities to either withdraw the Draft Act or else reform it extensively, to ensure full compliance with international human rights law and standards.

Background

Following cabinet approval on 19 June 2007, the Draft Act was forwarded to the Council of State for review before it goes to the NLA for debate. The military-led Council for National Security established after the 19 September 2006 coup has exercised key decision-making powers over government appointments, including the NLA, which is serving as the interim legislature pending a referendum set for 19 August 2007 and elections envisaged to take place by the end of the year, as well as in the constitution drafting process.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=...2007〈=e

Where are we now ?

a pretty funny chart. Levels one to four describe the activities of the security apparatus. Then level 5 says- chaos!. Riots!

Read correctly, this chart would suggest that the final level is one in which the security forces run amok.

In fact of course, this chart is nothing more than a political cartoon- pointing out that the trajetory that leads from veering away from the norm will be chaos--- and if you don't believe that- look at the point on the trajetory we are already occupying. Actually, pretty brilliant in a kind of ultra conservative way.

555

well observed and pointed out. thanks for the laugh.

chaos should be actually the normal the natural state. soon as the authorities try to control the lovely entropy with orders it turns worse, put it under more and more pressure, the system becomes more and more stressed, hot and explosive.

its a libertarian cartoon.

point 5 would be "military rules".

For the sake of those all too quick to resort to personal attacks and flaming, when it is obvious they are not fully aware of the argument, I will post these facts. If anyone disputes any of these then please post evidence supporting your claim: Links are given where necessary, other points are covered by http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?action=cw_search&l=1&t=1&cw_country=106&cw_date= , which gives a day by day account of events.

1. There have been elections since the coup.

2. In those elections, more people voted against the PPP than for the PPP. The PPP gained the most seats, but the Democrats got the most votes for any single party.

...

are questions allowed?

how could people vote "against the PPP"? i doubt that it was somehow possible.

furthermore i don't believe your claim that the Democrats got more votes. (and i don't bother to bring evidence and a link to counter your claim you call 'fact' it isn't.

it's an issue of opinion to recognise Abhisit as "legit and decent" or not.

you cannot find the final TRUTH and the absolute proof for it with a list of selected 'facts' while maybe other points got taken less into consideration for your final conclusion.

just look into your point 1. "There have been elections since the coup." it is much more complex than just this line.

in case you don't know at that www.crisisgroup.org Link you can recap what happend in the month before the election

1/07/2007 "Political parties allowed to resume activity 5 June although ban on formation of new parties remains, preventing re-formation of Thaksin’s disbanded Thai Rak Thai."

1/08/2007 "Ban on formation of new political parties lifted 18 July. Anti-coup protests continued: several thousand Thaksin supporters clashed with police 22 July."

1/09/2007 "Vote revealed support for charter weakest in former PM Thaksin strongholds of North and Northeast. Turnout relatively low at 58% as around half of country under martial law and no-vote campaigners intimidated and arrested."

1/01/2008 People’s Power Party (PPP), with links to deposed PM Thaksin, won greatest share of seats in 23 December elections, with 228 of 480. Democrat Party, linked to coup leaders, won 166. TITV blocked from broadcasting interview with Thaksin, who said considering return to country, 26 December. Some harassment of PPP candidates reported ahead of polls; martial law remained in effect in 31 provinces. Government pushed through final draft of internal security act on eve of election. Violence in south unabated.

the issues lie within the question how legit is that 2007 constitution and how fair was campaigning in 2007 under martial law and all that.

as i said there are a lot of points and details i could take into consideration or ignore them as less important. i should know them all somehow. and i have to accept that i cant convince everybody, but its possible to understand why some people argue this way or that way. some are plain propaganda monkeys, some have valuable thoughts, on both side pro or contra.

so legit or not - tricky question. i would say it is not uncontroversial.

I am not looking for arguments journalists that are reporting from/working here are "migrant workers". Tell me where it says they are excluded?

There is no point in splitting hairs as it achieves nothing. It is obvious what they mean, after all do you really thing that they would have any intention of jailing BBC/CNN reporters etc?

A voice of reason. Thanks for bringing a little bit of realism into this.

is it just 'an argument on the internet'?

in the end its a two class distribution of human rights. voice of reason?

question solved. you can be be happy now. they are not coming to take You away, is just the others. he, he. don't have to worry about it.

Would you go along to a "free Tibet" march because you wanted a pay rise?

but I have the right to, without being threatened by someone to 5 years in jail... thats the point

that it isn't just about some political opinion or a 'i rather like/hate Thaksin' question but have something to do with basic human right issues a lot of people on this board don't get.

on the basis of assumption, guess work, speculation, bias and soon basic human rights got denied.

a government that issue such orders demonstrate that they don't have a grasp what democracy and human rights actually mean.

this Order alone or along with the new migrant registration policy mentioned in the article should give immigrants a reason to form their own block and participate in a protest against this government.

there is a 2 -class system of immigrants and this is aimed at Burmese workers. probably nothing will happen to western foreigners, but i doesn't mean that we as the board members shouldn't mind. if i blame Thaksin on the basis of his human right record i must condemn such Order with the same stance or i would be a hypocrite.

and what if we too ...

imagine some NGO some human right nerd who wants to show up as independent observer, foreigners that try with their presence to prevent police violence. such people you have evrywhere even if the protests not their cause. peaceniks.

what is with foreigners that have family here. okay, they are not entitled to vote, but their spouses, children, adopted children, all the in-laws are. if you bring them with your pick up to a meeting point you can risk 5 years in jail.

this Order is exploitable until such extend and thats why you should be concerned, even if you don't have a pick up or red shirted relatives or don't care at all or hate Thaksin you should be concerned if civil rights have a value for you.

No surprise, there are no apologies to its readers by The Nation for yesterdays inaccurate reporting Seh Deang will kept in custody. that erroneous breaking news is still online.

Don't forget why these YouTuberEight 'terrorists' have been arrested: "Police detained the eight on suspicion of [...] uploading false information into the computer system."

False information on the internet - and The Nation continues with publishing misleading and distorted information.

specially the last line:

"a list of 53 names of people with an anti-Thaksin Shinawatra stance from his website, having earlier said they "had been marked on the forehead"."

that mysterious list. 53 people, anti-Thaksin, with marks in their forehead on a website of a Army Maj General, who is somehow a very special character and like to pose with a gun.

That sounds so dangerous, scary and frightening for the average clueless, right. came a couple of times in The Nation reporting. and i saw a few board members who fell for that tricky propaganda disinformation.

Anyone saw that list on Seh Deangs website himself or at least a screen screen shot of it?

so the The Nation suggested there is a page on his website that contained a list of 'enemies' with pictures of people with marks on their forehead? The Nation made a big headline about it.

Can that be true? Or what are the facts behind it?

I saw a list there. hah, that forum missing some button to hide a spoiler:

Seh Deangs website has also a webboard, a forum, similar to this forum here. Internet user can register there and write their own entries. If The Nation want held Seh Deang accountable for what appears there and blame him, then Suttichai Yoon must take responsibility for everything what appears here in this forum too.

board.sae-dang.com

So what i saw was not on the website itself, but appeared as an board entry by some user and had a couple of replies. i didn't saw pictures with people marked on their forehead. ot wasn't even original content but a copy and paste job from another webpage. that list of these 53 people you can find elsewhere on the net on a couple of places, even on a blog that is hosted by the Nation Multimedia Group.

about the (presumable) origin of the list, the first time the list appeared on the internet on december 30, 2009, its kinda a a year-end retrospective. and because in thailand it switched from year 2052 to year 2053 there are 53 people on this list.

thaienews.blogspot.com/2009/12/53-52.html

Go check for yourself how dangerous, conspiratorial and threatening to the national security that list is.

Don't believe all the nonsense The Nation writes about Khattiya. Don't make a fool of yourself repeating some narrow minded propaganda BS. All the :facedesks: after i read so much silly comments hurt after a while.

Inform yourself at some other sources, get additional opinions, try to see and interpret Seh Deang with Thai eves in the Thai context. It is some unique issue you can't compare with your Western world.

"10. Order the "training at a special location" of suspects, in lieu of pressing charges against them, for up to six months (Article 31) – such training apparently requires the "consent" of the suspect, but with the threat of criminal procedures as alternative, the voluntariness of consent to such "training" is doubtful. In the absence of freely given consent, such training is therefore likely to amount to arbitrary detention.

Unless otherwise stated, none of the above provisions requires court authorisation for the powers to be exercised."

this is an imprisonment without a charge and without the court - just an administrative decision. No much less than "prisoner of war"

in this situation that law can be turn out to be a doom machine for the Democrat government or a democratic Thailand (with or without the Democrats) in the near future at all.

all this measurements could have worked out and be useful to keep everything down and quote if it would have been imposed long time ago and push the UDD into the underground and make proper planning and organizing of such a mass rally impossible. like it was 2006/2007.

but now everything is planned allready, carpools formed, schedules developed, back up plans probably exist.

so that that law is used as a threat, scare tactics, an attempt to keep the number of participants at that rally at a low number. the sheer number could cause a loss f face for Abhisit. for other concerns like a collaps of the logistic to provide the daily needs of the people you can not control with such a law. and if the UDD can mobilise the mass of protesters others will not stay at home because their friends and neighbors go and the group give the individual a feeling of safety.

it will be not a bunch if thugs but people of all ages and all walks of life. normal people, peaceful protesters. such mass will unstoppable and whoever would try to stir up the sh't and create a situation and then trying to detain all these people or a certain amount of them is asking to fail and then it becomes really nasty. if they start to build such 'prisoners of war camp' it will also create a lot of freedom warriors and we have a civil war situation and i doubt the army will be willing or able to provide such a service to save the lower backside of Abhisit and Suthep. i

f the masses are in town Abhisits only chance is to sot it out. give the red shirts their way, let them do their camping and the music show, keep an eye on any third party and bring that third party under control if they are up to some conflict. be happy about the fact that there are some many monks around who will be helpful partner in the deescalation management by the security forces. have patience until the reds go home and do as much as possible to avoid ISA implementation.

the pure existence of point 10 in that ISA list makes Thailand to a failed state if the government really need such a law. if they will actually practise point 10 its over.

i dont get the happiness and the willingness to support such Act. only something more uglier can turn that into a win situation but certainly not that concept Abhisit pretends to be stand for.

The Nation have a story saying further detention has been approved either the Nation or TAN are going to be a tad red faced after this one becomes clear

555

The news came out 17:58. and looks like that at 18:00 the office close, leisure-time. Unfortunately the news from the court didn't reach the office yet, so what to do?

Lots of The Nation reports is guess work and speculation anyway. Does somebody care, getting they a red face at The Nation if some news turn out to be inaccurate? Not really.

The odds have been 50/50, that is an above the average change to get it right. So why don't give it a try and just report something. In a typical The Nation style they chose the version what The Nation wishes and hopes to become true. Using imagination is a big strength of that newspaper. Attempts to create reality this way. True or not it will nothing change at The Nation or leads to a consideration how they should handle the news business. wanna bet?

btw. a quote from the start topic "Police detained the eight on suspicion of [...] uploading false information into the computer system."

'computer system' is "Computer Crime Act B.E.2550" speech and means in this case the internet.

relevant could be here the following section:

Commit The Nation a violation according to the Computer Crime Act? A subject to interpretation. Khattiya would be probably entitled file a complaint with the police. After this it is up to the court. And that wasn't the first time that The Nation published false informations about Khattiya, damaging his reputation. That this leads to further verbal violence is documented on this web board.

If you study previous cases related to the 'Computer Crime Act' you will see that such a scenario is not so far off and it is possible that you can share a cell floor with the YouTuberEight 'false information' criminals.

When it comes to the Computer Crime Act be careful what you wish for others.

Police detained the eight on suspicion of two key violations - attempts to instigate violence aimed at unrest and a climate of fear, and uploading false information into the computer system.

Arrest eight and keep them all in custody because one of them is suspected of having a video posted on youtube, a video that contains somehow 'false information'?

so that are the legal steps based on that 'Computer Crime Act'. seems to be no further evidence there.

and the release on bail got delayed because of some tricky payment arrangements. maybe not intended but just unlucky circumstances on the weekend.

well done keeper of democracy. this kind of government action is so convincing.

The Nation sounds a litle bit worried that it is maybe not possible to keep them longer behind bars. that there is a court decision and some laws than cannot be stretched furthermore.

they are not even on a trail yet but the hobby judges in the forum deliver their ruling. evidence not necessary. meanwhile they practise same as The Nation a tactic what the YouTuberEight accused of - scare mongering, trying hard to create a climate of fear and distribute false information on the internet.

Dont believe everything what The Nation tells you about Seh Deang.

Seh Deang is a strange fellow, but outspoken against the power of the military, kudos for that. It prevents a possible coup. It creates a balance of power and therefore stability. A big power move is to risky, nobody really wants it to turn bloody and violent (except some quasi religious lunatics in the PAD maybe), but he has to be a little bit louder than the other team, to prevent the bigger predator to mess with the porcupine or the skunk (take your choice).

The military allowed him some freedom, not because they fear him, its the better option to have him as counter balance. He is respected, a officer to officer thingy. The goal of the self declared Warrior is not to rule but equilibrium. He is predictable, lots of spectacle and show that keeps the people entertained. Seh Deang is a maverick, he isn't up to leadership. Visionary leader characters are much more to worry about. They are unpredictable, can turn gaga, become despotic or turn out to be weak and fail. It could turn much more worse if some really political fanatics or desperate lunatics spot a power vacuum and seize a chance and try to push their fatalistic agenda at any cost.

Abhist should better recognise what kind of function Seh Deang has in the gear box to avoid other excentric movements. Abhisit isn't a winner, he will always need the the help of the big brothers, but it can become boring for them to scare away the village people all the time. It isn't a match, in such battles is no glory and no face to gain. That isn't the position where the army would like to see themself in the society, but if the have to do the dirty jobs they will be better of to do it 100% and no need for a handsome puppet to keep the system running. For the sake of the balance and for the show and the entertainment let the knights and worriers of both sides play their game and jousting.

Given the difficult nature of the YouTuberEight Abhisit can maybe convince some closed-minded people that deleting them of the scene wasn't an undemocratic decision, but it is and it is a wussy move. The 'rule' 'no false information' is a cheat, a dirty trick and totally unfair if not all have to follow, if it not get applied equally to all sides.

...

Informed sources claim about 6,000 assault rifles and a large amount of explosives were taken from ...

 

- thaivisa.com 2010-03-07 

6000 stolen rifles - think about it - does that sound somehow plausible? If you look closer at it is is almost totally fictional, how that could get published? The pressure and the ambition to be the first one who reports the news about the missing items in that inventory? it sound hot news, breaking, urgent, so dramatic , a scandal right? Only two possible suspects south or red shirt. The PM spoke yesterday about intelligence information that acts of sabotage are planned. That isn't propaganda or "scare tactics" and next day evidence comes. On Tuesday the army discovered the theft of 6000 rifles, two days later on Thursday they filed a report to the police, instead of calling some investigators in in an instant and on Sunday the government spokesman makes it public that there is an urgent investigation about a "a massive loss of weapons and explosives".

First i thought it's "news" from The Nation because it looks so typical The Nation. getting figures wrong, mix up the details, create drama where is actually nothing.

I think it should be pretty obvious now that "6,000 assault rifles" can't be right and can't be possible. Previous entries demonstrated by simple doing the maths, let me that shortly repeat - a single M16 rifle has a weight of 3.5 kg, multiply that by 6000. The sum is maybe not to easy to visualise if you are not in cargo or logistics business or a truck driver. Look up how much weight an average truck can carry or picture these international standard freight container or shipping container- they are capable of carrying up to max. 20–25 tonnes. but these 6000 x 3.5 kg rifles will come in racks or transport boxes, so we have to consider additional weight. Another issue is the volume or capacity of storage room 6000 rifles need. that is a lot of space. do a google image search for "Weapon Carts" or "M16 storage rack", and than try to imagine how much storage units you will need for 6000 rifles. Now you should get a picture in your mind how a bulk of 6000 rifles look like, try to imagine to steal them, unseen, unnoticed, in an army camp.

Anyway, reports by other news agencies and channels informed us that it is probably just ammunition, "3000 bullets".

How it comes to 6000 rifles? Possible explanation: someone got lost in translation, the editor of the news didn't gave a second thought. The publisher don't care so much about accuracy.

Like i said, first i looked at The Nation website. I wanted to see if the report is still online. The Nation don't cares about inaccuracy and would never or seldom correct a mistake and if it happen The Nation will not inform its readers with a line like "A previous version of the online news contained a mistake. The Nation reported that ........, but we stand corrected. please please accept our apologies.".

But it didn't came from The Nation, it came from "thai visa news", whatever that exactly is.

I am missing some edits in the first entry on the topic and some additional information what and why is something wrong with the bold headline "6,000 guns and explosives stolen from barracks".

Not every visitor or of the forum will read all the following entries in this thread.

And it isnt just a minor issue like a small typo, transposed digits, getting lost with the q^th power. or mixup the exact name of some government department or get a date of a historical event wrong. The is a difference in between reporting that '6000 rifles are stolen' and possibly in the hand of terrorist groups or that an stock taking in some army camp had shown that somehow 3000 cartridges went missing and at the moment the authorities looking for someone to blame.

A journalist or publisher of news, a news agency should show some responsibility and be accountable. and not try to hope it will get unnoticed or hide behind phrase like 'a informed source said' and that you could argue 'it wasn't me, i am the victim of false information too'.

In style and layout that news report comes the same way like other news items here. with and icon or symbol of the respective publisher/news agency like The Nation, state news agencies or AFP as the signature and sign of trust at the end. Thai visa news follows the same pattern. so i expect a certain degree of reliability, i would like to get the feeling that i can trust these news (too a certain degree).

6000 guns and explosives stolen from barracks its a headline like a bomb. you probably enjoying to look at the page hit stats. the old print media 100 years ago would had sold an extra evening edition with that front page too. But the first entry here is just a hoax, and has that additional very fishy smell, an invitation to start with a lot of speculation. Why that obviously distorted information, is there a intention behind, what is motivation, observer may ask and draw their conclusions. doesn't that thai visa news entity care about its reputation? Thai visa news, you can do better.

anyway, the line "According to Mr Panitan, a police report was filed last Thursday" is my favorite of the whole piece.

compare: www.last-thursday.org

encyclopediadramatica.com/Last_Thursday

I flew from Dubai on EK374 on late Friday night with my wife (Thai) who works for Emirates. I commented on the higher than usual number of Thai passengers on that plane and she agreed 100%. There was one group in particular, numbering 20+ people, who were constantly moving between seats, shouting across everyone's heads to their 'friends' on the other side of the plane and were not your average tour group. The wife said their dialects were a mixture of northern and north-eastern. Most of them were aged 35-45 years old, but there were a couple of men in their 70s or even older ... village headmen perhaps? So is someone paying people to fly over and directly collect money from Thaksin or just to discuss strategies?

Maybe nothing, but I fly this route often and most of the Thais you see on there are usually cabin crew who work for Emirates flying home for a break or WAGS with foreign husbands/boyfriends/sponsors.

Must learn not to 'tink too mut'.

OMG! Thai on a plane!

So every Thai abroad a suspect in a conspiracy plot as long they are not female in company of a foreign male (in whatever degree of relationship) or providing other kind of service like inflight service personal. but if they come in groups bigger than 4 person and speak a northern or north eastern dialect - caught, guilty, convictable.

i agree their behavior was maybe somewhat annoying for a lone independent passenger and deviant from frequent flyers, but traveling groups of people, socially connected to each other with more in common than just sharing the same plane, they will act different than how they would do when travel alone. Groups tend to develop their own dynamics and that can turn such a flight to a 'hayride'. nothing unusual and that can be observed on groups of various national, cultural and social backgrounds. that can happen with nearly any group unlike your average tour group or not, a group of Norse academics, Greek villagers, Welsh skittles club, Boston aunties from a quilt class, Mongolian CEOs, nothing special, unusual or suspect.

To conclude they are village headman on the way to collect money from Thaksin directly in Dubai is farfetched.

But Dear Dr. Watson, aren't terms and idioms like WAGS or 'tink too mut' somekind of marker of a regiolect or sociolect, variants of language used by speakers of a certain social back ground or from a particular geographical region? Especially 'tink too mut', isn't it even a 'locallect', a dialect spoken only in certain locals, taverns by speakers sitting on certain stools, seats of taller height than your usual chair?

Wow 20,000 Monks!!!!!

If this many turn out they will outnumber the "red shirts".

My Issarn wife's family and friends use to think that "Mr T" was a great person and accepted that corruption was a part of Thai culture, however since he closely aligned himself with Hun Sen they will have nothing more to do with him.

My father in-law has even disowned him by now declaring "he not Thai he Chinese".

Wow.!! My Issan wife says they same thing... Once Cambodia was associated with Chief Criminal Thaksin the whole village dropped him like a hot potato.

The Cambodia move, that is their only reason not to be supportive anymore?

That 'move' wasn't exactly what could be called a big eye opener for now turned ex-admirers from a former Thaksin admire state of minds. They are not much smarter now and it is still the argumentation of a simpleton.

If some narrow-minded nationalists who focus only on Thaksin and nothing else and don't be concerned about the bigger picture behind it will leave the 'red movement' it is good for the movement itself A movement which is in my opinion more complex than that it could be just reduced to a or seen as Thaksin fan club.

Update:

PM receives reports on planned sabotage, but hasn't invoked security law

...

He said volunteers from the Interior Ministry would be dispatched during the demonstration while police and other security-focused officials were ordered to exercise extreme restraints from intimidation which would be created by the protesters.

... 

-- TNA 2010-03-06

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

why the 'authorities' have to rely on 'volunteers'?

IMHO, i think there is more to worry about these "volunteers from the Interior Ministry" than about some monks practicing their civil rights.