mazeltov

really what a small world im from montenegro as well there are at least 30 or 40 other guys here as well

the expats i met and use to have a small talk now and then in bangkok coming mostly from eastern europe and there is a fair share from the Adriatic coast amongst them, much more than i came across us-american or having a chat with other native English speakers.

unlike this board where most people seems to be from UK, US or Australia.

Fighting for Democracy? Sorry, that;s just words/

Democracy does not mean:

1. Buying Votes

2. Disregarding the law

3. Accepting cash to demonstrate

4. \burning fields to such an extent that people in T's heartlands suffer respiratory illnesses and worse

5. Ordering extra judicial killings of so-called drug dealers

6. Running a cabinet as a one-man band

7. Using the country's coffers as a personal bank account

4. \burning fields to such an extent that people in T's heartlands suffer respiratory illnesses and worse

i heard all the other points before, but the burning fields argument is something new.

I didn't make that too clear. The burning fields issue is about me w

listening to the red people saying how much they value democracy. Then I saw some peeps with red flags etc burning a field and a small 'copse'nin the midst of this pollution crisis. My Thai wife asked them that if they truly cared about democracy and, by inference, other people, why are they contributing to the ill health and respiratory problems of the local population. They said "If we want to burn our fields then we will - these are our fields. Its up to us". Yet these are the people, amongst others, fighting for democracy. Don't make me laugh!

i still don't get it.

anyway, you could boycott farm products. start a campaign and ask other join. don't buy anything from them anymore. that will teach them a lesson. good luck.

Fighting for Democracy? Sorry, that;s just words/

Democracy does not mean:

1. Buying Votes

2. Disregarding the law

3. Accepting cash to demonstrate

4. \burning fields to such an extent that people in T's heartlands suffer respiratory illnesses and worse

5. Ordering extra judicial killings of so-called drug dealers

6. Running a cabinet as a one-man band

7. Using the country's coffers as a personal bank account

4. \burning fields to such an extent that people in T's heartlands suffer respiratory illnesses and worse

i heard all the other points before, but the burning fields argument is something new.

Newin will not have an real issue getting his men re-elected as they seem to have their constituencies in a fairly tight grip. So I don't agree in your analysis that a switch in any way is needed by him to survive. They where not elected due to their policies. However he might again deem that they can pork-barrel themselves richer by again switching in time for budget negotiations...or atleast threatening about it.

Good analysis. Newin (who is banned from politics, can you tell?) will have no trouble getting MP's elected he can control.

MP's are rarely elected based on policies. They are elected first based on surname or surname of wife and second on how much pork barrel they were able to bring into the district.

TH

did you read the Post article that got recommended above. the author puts the Thai Mp's into different categories, one are "the entrepreneurial gangsters, who enter Parliament with the sole purpose of feathering their own nests and are usually very influential provincial figureheads. These guys are generally very smart but have decided to use their God-given talent to pursue ungodly gains. You'll be able to find many of these characters in the Puea Thai and Bhumjaithai parties and they are not difficult to spot - just look for the oversized shades and distasteful Versace neckties."

perfect description. i think the 3 of us can agree with it. that is the faction about we are talking here. i hope the quoted bits whet your appetite if you didn't read the article yet, you will miss something that is enjoyable to read.

team Newin, the small group that is so powerful because they can change the constellation. in coalition governments with a very big partner and a small partner that brings finally the small narrow majority, the small partner can more demand and have more influence than their proportional electorate represents. in opposition they are nobody, in a coalition they become the boy who owns the football and will go home if you don't let him win.

but the question is not only if team Newin got re-elected in their constituencies (a look at the past by-election could help for an analysis) but it is also the question if they are still needed after a new election as the party thats tip the scales. if there is a clear winner they depend on the kindness of the winner to get invited to the buffet and became part of a coalition government.

anyway, i want to add one source that did some speculation about what could happen on the this session, that didn't happen because MP didn't show up. but it is just a postponement, the suspense is still there.

Thanong Khanthong, editor of a newspaper called The Nation, blogged some prediction

Newin stabs Abhisit at the back / Chai is preparing a guillotine for Abhisit

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong/2010/03/14/entry-1

sorry for using dramatic bold, but i would like to hear some inputs here by the experts and the "experts" too. that is obviously not Thaksin apologist propaganda, but still Thanong and The Nation, respected by some. i am surprise that this thoughts don't get much debated here. (or i missed it because i don't follow every of these many blood threads).

^unfortunately you have lost the plot - you are by birth a citizen of your country, no matter how you twist it this will always be the case.

Sorry Brit...but you are incorrect. I had two of my bretheren-in-arms that went adventuring in Africa some years ago. Lost their citizenship and became persona non grata in the country of their birth...

This is fact, not academic theory. I am personally connected to these 2 people.

yep, such cases exist.

there are countries that get anal with their laws and expel citizen that don't behave well in their view. the east block commie states liked to do that and would be another example.

dual -citizenship is also not accepted by many nations.

anyway, on an another level we would/could still regard them somehow by their birthright nationality or where they originally came from. (and don't have to be anal about it.)

Of course Thai culture, society and civilization is radically different from all of the same that is definitively Western.

However, Chaucer wrote of these very forms of society, as did Dante, Shakespeare, Machiavelli and so many others. Thais too much think they have the corner on knowledge of the likes of Jekyll and Hyde and the duality within people. There's also Cervantes about idiots charging windmills and saving the sluts etc etc. I haven't even mentioned the Greek tragedies, comedies and dramas for their value in presenting perspective and self-examination, introspection.

The major problem with the Thai basis of civiliation is that its guiding principles were codified 2,500 years ago for those times and probably were valid until the Industrial Revolution, which Thailand missed completely as did most of Asia and the rest of the world, to include especially China. The latter day followers/believers in the Enlightened One, as with the Enlightened One, have blindly missed entirely the matter of wealth creation and the handling of wealth responsibly and morally, hence the inherent corruption of Thai culture and of so many of the Old World cultures and soceties.

A work ethic also never at all made its way to Thailand but in all fairness it's just too hot most of the time to even think about work, or to feel any ambition or a desire to produce material things - only after the invention of a/c by the West did economic productivty begin in the tropical societies and countries (for which we have yet to be thanked). Applying knowledge to economic transformation and development also zoomed over the heads of the Thai, but the same is true of the followers of Confucious who these days can be highly 'confusedous' especially when Marxism-Leninism-Maoism is the rule.

Then there's the role of science in Thai civilization - oops, or should I say spirit houses, voodoo and tossing blood willy-nilly in a major urban center.

you should not forget to add that the great white man and his superior abilities to do the industrial revolution brought us also Auschwitz, Nagasaki and coffee in a plastic cup. that is the power. must be really feel great to be part of the white race.

Quite a bizarre outburst. Im sure any campaigners for true democracy would be critical of it.

Edited to add: There is also a certain irony in it if one is to beleive runours of who is gay and who isnt. Then again bringing sexaulity into things is a low place to go

ohh yeah, the irony. you just did it.

and there are a couple of post here where people not hesitate to feed such rumours. how brave.

of course it is low.

How can anyone deny that he is a convicted criminal? It is a matter of public record including exactly WHY he was convicted. Legitimacy isn't an issue either since the man himself said he trusted in the courts (before his lawyers' bakery scandal!) How could legitimacy be an issue? The only issue is why anyone would support a criminal like him!

your last question (i know it becomes circular now, but that is the way how the argument goes)

because for his supporters he isn't that criminal like you him want to paint, for them "Khun T is a hero, not a criminal"

I can't believe how some people can twist facts into something completely different, twist black into white.

The man committed numerous serious offences against the well established decades long laws of Thailand. In fact many of the cases involve breaking the most basic laws, about theft.

Will you agree to that? Yes or no please.

(edit:i tried to repair the "quotes" in your post)

dude, don't argue with me.

there are people out there that say: "Khun T is a hero, not a criminal"

these people exist. they are thaksin followers because they don't think of him or see him as a mega-criminal.#, but as a hero.

or in other words, they don't follow him because of his criminal activities.

if you ask: Why they follow that criminal? you will get the answer above. and you can ride on the the circle of argument one more time.

if you ask me if i personally agree with you, i must tell you that i cannot.

the line "committed numerous serious offences against the well established decades long laws of Thailand. In fact many of the cases involve breaking the most basic laws, about theft." is much too vague, to much generalised for me.

if i would say "yes, agree" some other member maybe say to me " okay, bring more facts. tell me at least 5 of these serious offences, 5 of the many cases whereby the laws Thaksin had offended are established since decades."

you know - i am not that great Thaksin expert to know that and could not provide such details. so i carefully not agree with everything that i read somewhere in the internet.

I just hope EU will block Montenegro from joining EU. Another third world country.

and from which first class trailer park you are coming from?

Shmendrik Falls Winnebago's,

near East Bubkes Farbissener.

You must know it well, Shlimazeltov.

Yiddish ?

no, it is your usual internet hate speech by a fool trying to impress with his google "education".

^Perhaps Khun T is a hero, not a criminal?

He's a convicted criminal with plenty of other cases waiting for his eventual appearance in court to deal with

I am sure some would disagree with the convicted criminal aspect, and also challenge the legitimacy of said decisions.

How can anyone deny that he is a convicted criminal? It is a matter of public record including exactly WHY he was convicted. Legitimacy isn't an issue either since the man himself said he trusted in the courts (before his lawyers' bakery scandal!) How could legitimacy be an issue? The only issue is why anyone would support a criminal like him!

your last question (i know it becomes circular now, but that is the way how the argument goes)

because for his supporters he isn't that criminal like you him want to paint, for them "Khun T is a hero, not a criminal"

The one group he cares perhaps less about are most likely the NGOs and foreigners living inThailand....based on his past track record.

Someone please refresh my memory.....whats an NGO??

NGO = Never Going Outdoors...? Farangs who live in this country as if they were living back home, enclosed in their apartment?

Beats me... NGO anyone?

you mean like all the internet heros who know everything better than these rural uneducated indigenous people?

I don't see why the current gov't doesn't bring more charges agianst him..there are countless...crimes against humanity, treason, intent to incite mass rioting......why not end this silly game?

last time you told us that a lot of charges already exist, but without going much into details about what kind of charges.

now you talking about more crimes, if you know so much and have evidence you can file the charges by yourself or at least share your information with the authorities.

provide intelligence and support the government!

I just hope EU will block Montenegro from joining EU. Another third world country.

and from which first class trailer park you are coming from?

The incident was in fact reported and much to thaksins horrer a reporter asked him publically for a comment. Thaksin was furious and dithered then said something like 'it's normal, everybody does it everywhere'.

OMG, stopp the press! we have a new headline argument : student using crib notes.

World's End

Whisked from the Bourgeois' pointy head hat flies,

Throughout the heavens, reverberating screams,

Down tumble roofers, shattered 'cross roof beams

And on the coast - one reads - floodwaters rise.

The storm is here, rough seas come merrily skipping

Upon the land, thick dams to rudely crush.

Most people suffer colds, their noses dripping

While railroad trains from bridges headlong rush.

http://german.berkeley.edu/poetry/weltende.php

UAE will not allow Thaksin to re-enter: Panich

BANGKOK: -- Panich Wikitset, vice foreign minister, said the United Arab Emirates prohibited former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra from re-entering the Arab kingdom.

Panich said the Thai Foreign Ministry provided evidence to the UAE government on Tuesday to prove that Thaksin continued to make political moves to attack Thailand from abroad.

As a result, the UAE government would not allow Thaksin to re-enter the country until Thaksin halts his political moves, Panich said.

I really think the FM & his department should really stop saying anything about where Thaksin is and where he is allowed to go.

Let the reporters find out something for themselves and stop looking like idiots when everyone says different things.

people on this board should be also more careful and not become a sucker and fall for everything what comes from this direction.

actually not only careful but at a point to be really pissed off for getting fooled by so much false information and propaganda lies.

Someone writes something down in a forum and everybody takes it for the truth.<br />

<br />

Are you trying to say that TAN, part of Sondhi L's media group might in some way be biased towards the ruling elite and may not actually report facts all the time? Surely not.

The ironic thing is that half the posters on TV who claim that the uneducated rural voters cant tell Thaksin's spin from reality are the same ones who take any TAN or Nation report as being the gospel truth.

thatzz a BINGO!

People from my culture often make jokes, about something which they actually find sick & repulsive & uncivilised, this is a harmless defense-mechanism.

Does anybody know, where does Thaksin now claim he is, and what reason he gives for not making it to Germany, to see his daughters, as he originally announced ?

it was a"joke" that just showed how uneducated you are yourself. you don't became better or superior with saying something bad about other folks, ethnic groups, people, stereotyping them.

funny thing is that Thaksin never had decleared that he will visit his daughter in Germany. that was all just speculation by his "fan" team, who like to spread also gossip about his family. how civilised is that?

Didn't Thaksin twitter that he was going to Germany?

Yes

no he didn't twitter that.

you have been fooled by the local media or some other unreliable sources.

should be very easy to check if that can be verified and warnings have been there not to be a sucker to believe everything what you read somewhere on the internet or is printed by The Nation.

but, okay i don't subscribe any twitter nonsense and i am not an experienced observer of any single Thaksin step.(have better things to do) but i assume that the twitter account everybody referring to is this one: http://twitter.com/Thaksinlive

people have the full right to criticise Thaksin, but they discredit themselves if they rely on trash talk.

Wonder if he has ordered some c4 there. As someone mentioned, some tough guys out there. This region is still on a brink, even when Montenegro may get into the EU this year. Still a kind of Dracu region altogether.

Why you think Thailand got warned from allies?

can i ask you some question? where are you coming from so that you can judge some country as "a kind of Dracu region altogether." and what does it imply at all?

"thailand got warned from allies"? can you tell me more about this?

The USA and other naitonal intelligence communities monitor Thaksins phones

and USA reported to Thailand, that he was involved in possible attempts at sabotage

this weekend.

In other words he is distrusted by world intelegence communities,

and monitored, and Abhisit was warned in advance

and then he announced it;

a ) to possibly stop it happening, because they are looking for it.

Plus lay out the blame before it happens, so the spin can't win.

b ) to let Thaksin and the Reds know he isn't loved everywhere,

like he says he is by the outside world. No doubt brought him down a few notches.

Is Montenegros a kind of Dracu world.... well it has it's share of financial and mafia type

blood suckers still in residence, because they can hide out there without fear of getting caught.

how you know how that "world intelegence communities" monitor Thaksin (okay, that is not unlikely, of course they are looking at the while situation) but that they also as 'allies" report to the Thai government and warning Abhisit? any prove and evidence for that.

of i look at the false reports about Thaksins arrival in Cambodia must have been a massive failure of all the combined intelligence power.

the question what are "dracu countries" should that be answered by the "educated" experts who travel with their index finger in a world atlas or by somebody who spend some more thoughts on such issue?

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009...ed_states_index

Failed States Index

countries on ALERT:

rank

1. Somalia

7. Afghanistan

13. Myanmar

38. Iran

countries on WARNING:

39. Syria

76. Cuba

79. Thailand

109. Albania

MODERATE:

132. Panama

134. Montenegro

139. UAE

159. United States of A.

SUSTAINABLE:

165. Iceland

174. Switzerland

177. Norway

The real issue is that the Democrats suspected ...

so you mean the Dems suspected that maybe someone start a debate or submit some issue for parliamentary approval, acclamation. and there is the possibility that the Dems will not have the majority for getting their take on that issue approved but rather the opposite side so the Demss decided to boycott the whole thing with not showing up.

and because it spoils the concept of the secret ballot voting process if only one side shows up even more MPs didn't came.

Um, no, not really. Newin is about to switch sides, which means the government will fall. Newin needs to swtich sides because if he doesn't then he and his friends have a snowball's chance in hel_l of getting re-elected.

Issues have nothing to do with it; he's just looking for a reason to switch. The protests so far don't seem to have provided any traction though but I'm sure he'll think of something.

that what i mean with the issue. coalition reshuffle.

the Chidchob team switching sides since ever, it wasn't the first time that they hang out with the dems and it wasn't the first time that they drop somebody. as a small party you can always hope that some big team needs you as coalition partner, even if they don't like you.

but when nobody shows up at the parliament it will be difficult to change the current coalition.

in a full house secret ballot voting MPs who wanna switch sides can hide and are not under the whip or group pressure by their party. that is not mean by these switchers, it is their right and that happen in parliaments. it is normal.

if only the pro or only the contra team lines up at the ballot, the vote isn't secret anymore. indecisive "switchers" can't testing the water before jumping inside head first .

anyway, i will miss Abhisit, Korn and Kasit. always good for a laugh. they get seldom attention here on this board, everybody just talking about the reds, the reds, the reds and Thaksin + family. whereas Abhisit delivers good entertainment too, perfect fail team to mock about, but in opposition The Nation don't need them anymore to provide some reason to print a new Thaksin story.

Wonder if he has ordered some c4 there. As someone mentioned, some tough guys out there. This region is still on a brink, even when Montenegro may get into the EU this year. Still a kind of Dracu region altogether.

Why you think Thailand got warned from allies?

can i ask you some question? where are you coming from so that you can judge some country as "a kind of Dracu region altogether." and what does it imply at all?

"thailand got warned from allies"? can you tell me more about this?

so on some world atlas it looks almost the same?

how many thumbs is it away from Greece or Italy when you travel with your index finger on a world map?

Montenegro has not much in common with some Count Dracula stories. different location, different people, different culture, different history.

if you try to put it in the same pot your are almost like people who cannot tell Thailand from Taiwan.

but hey, if you order words in an alphabetic list tacky, Thaskin, Transylvania, trash, tricky, toxic, travesty, ting tong and trap come pretty close. awesome, right?

it is your decision if that make some sense. in the internet you can type everything and can find somebody who has no knowledge but will agree with you as long you share the same hate object. easy win.

Mazeltov, your ignorance is showing, I'm afraid. We educated people use a ruler to measure, in conjunction with the scale on the map, not our thumbs & fingers, but at least you know some words beginning with 't'.

And guess what, I did type something on the internet, and did "find somebody who has no knowledge", at least of european geography !

okay, following your logic and with using a ruler on the map, how many things having Jack the ripper and Brussels sprouts in common? what would educated people like you say?

Yes the government essentially took the legs from under the protesters leadership.

The general niceness, and solicitousness for the protesters safety of Abhists public pronouncements,

must have been quite galling for the red leaders to try and counter.

Wow, after reading this article, and if I was a Red Shirt I would go home in shame and utter defeat. They were 'galled' big time like you say Animatic!

That Government just cut those Red Shirt leaders off at the knees - right again Animatic

You da man!

I mean listen to it:

• Military credit for composure
  
• Military speakers are heroes
  
• Military speakers teased nicely
  
• Friendly greetings from the military
  
• Army pacifiers
  
• No protests at local venues
  
• Protesters desrting
  
• Red Shirt frustration
  
• Abhisit and allies showed solidarity
  
• Blood thing a setback
  
• Left and Right opposed the blood thing
  
• Thaksin failed to demonize the army
  

12 solid reasons for the Red shirt democracy just to throw in the towel.

In fact this is so adulatory of the military, why dont we just put them back in Government

And Nation articles do not lie.

They are the paragon of balanced, unbiased reporting.

We report, you decide.........right.

I'm sure happy I am now informed

Complicity and 47 Rai

you hit the nail on the head.

The Nation articles never lie. The Nation is fabulantastic.

and the army don't shoot me. best bois evar. fabulantastic too.

i agree with you, they should be the Government.

don't we all have a fetish for men in uniform?

Show up to work, cowards.

:jerk:

nice choice of avatar btw. like the ambivalence. will bring some fools mind to boil and/or fall for it. i see epic LULZ coming.

The real issue is that the Democrats suspected ...

so you mean the Dems suspected that maybe someone start a debate or submit some issue for parliamentary approval, acclamation. and there is the possibility that the Dems will not have the majority for getting their take on that issue approved but rather the opposite side so the Demss decided to boycott the whole thing with not showing up.

and because it spoils the concept of the secret ballot voting process if only one side shows up even more MPs didn't came.

how legit is that?

I have been emailing with Khun Voranai for some time now, told me he had been at BKK POST for a few months stirring things up, for a Texax high school educated thai, he mentioned how it was amazing it was he could string a sentence together, well he has certainly shown he writes with excellence, insight and professionalism,what a refreshing approach to the thai media....have been fan club number one for some time.....of course there will be some who loathe him but he speaks the truth in my umble opinion Dukkha

Indeed Khun Voranai is a very intelligent person and has a very good judgement . In fact i have sent the link to his excellent articles in other forums

errhm.

the article, the link brought me to, was indeed a nice read and thanks for the recommendation.

but it wasn't written by editor boi Voranai. this guy, Voranai, plays in in a different league, is pretty much pure yellow and like make up 'facts' so that it fits his propaganda and rhetoric. don't expect a balanced view from him.