rabo

Oops! Sorry.

Has ANYONE seen any other source of confirmation that this bombing actually happened?

I admire you willingness to deny everything. Are you sure that this forum exists?

Think it was an honest question, (er, taking no sides, maybe both were honest questions)

By last evening, the article was still posted at TAN networks. A careful search for a retraction only came back to this thread.

Therefore, if you think this thread is the ultimate source of truth ________________ .

What, pray tell, led the poster to call everyone smug know nothing know it alls spewing nonsense, and then immediately start spewing nonsense based on fallacies? The fact is the administration did not refuse to treat anyone, rather they severely reprimanded a few doctors who personally objected to treating police that had attacked the demonstrators, and clearly stated that according to professional medical ethics they were bound to treat all people equally. The rest is about the same.

From this website: http://www.bangkokpost.com/pad_mass_protes...p?id=131246#top

PAD mass protest special coverage.

Chulalongkorn Hospital refuses to treat injured police.

(BangkokPost.com) - Doctors of eight hospitals released a statement condemning the police's dispersal of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) supporters, and called on the government to show responsibility of its action.

Chulalongkorn Hospital is the first medical institution that would not treat police officers injured from the incident.

"Today, medical team of Chulalongkorn Hospital will not give assistance to police officers injured from the clashes with PAD supporters. This is a social measure to show that doctors and nurses condemn the violent actions," Dr Suthep Koncharnwit, doctors of the hospital said.

Doctors from seven other hospitals that jointly released the statement are doctors from Thammasat University, Khon Kaen University, Chiang Mai University, Ramathibodi Hospital, Siriraj Hospital, Srinakharinwirot University and Songkhla Nakharin University.

According to Dr Suthep, the measure will be adopted only at Chulalongkorn Hospital for now.

I do believe that all hospitals were eventually forced to treat anyone.

Good call. I had researched this yesterday and the article(s) I read seemed to be later summaries. They discussed Chula's administration who made it clear that the action was on part of individual doctors and was against the hospital's practice. They also discussed reprimands or action against their doctors. It's very possible the hospital administration and doctor's were on opposite sides of the fence.

To hot now but I will look for the references I mentioned.

from the washingtonpost

In the current round of protests, Thaksin has secretly seeded the Red Shirts in Bangkok with former military personnel, said Viengrat Nethipo, a supporter of the Red Shirts who is an assistant professor of political science at Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok. A number of government officials and independent observers share her view.

Thai police and army forces have seized caches of rocket-launched grenades from the Red Shirts. During the army's failed attempt on April 10 to move the protesters out, several fighters in black uniforms sprang into action on the Red Shirt side, according to videotape evidence.

Autopsies after the shootout showed that high-velocity bullets, many of them fired with precision to the head, neck and chest, had killed and wounded several members of the army, including the most senior officer at the scene. The lethal targeting suggested a high level of military command and control among the protesters.

Leaders of the Red Shirts say they do not know who the black-shirted fighters are or where they came from. Government leaders say that is absurd.

Kraisak Choonhavan, a member of parliament and a deputy leader in the government, said Thaksin's policies benefited rural people. But now, he said, "he employs killer-hunters who come from the military."

Although the stalemate continues in the streets of Bangkok, both Kraisak and Jaran said negotiations between the Red Shirts and the government are quietly underway.

Pretty Damning article from the Washington Post --- gotta link ----?

So, you didn't notice the glaring factual error in this article or you're just conveniently ignoring it?

I think he was referring to the fact that neither Thai Police nor the Army have "seized caches of rocket-launched grenades from the Red Shirts".

I think the article refers to the 63 grenades seized on delivery during the Don Meuang incident and the subsequent arms cache seized from the police sergeant who later confessed to be an arms dealer.

I can understand the Washington Post might have trouble with arms seized by police from the police while the military was shooting the military (later identified as unknown black guard)

Do you get the feeling that since the pro-Yellow leaders of the army who attacked on April 10th got targeted and shot, that in fact now the pro-Yellow side of the Army cannot muster much support and is very weak ?

I mean, according to the headline they were getting the crack forces ready, what happened ? Did it come to total perhaps 1000 who were Yellow enough to do the work of the puppet masters ?

When the Yellow's protested the police were used against them and the Yellow army sides helped the PAD and gave them training.

Its no surprise now that everyone else ignores the Reds, and the Yellow army side, which appears to be very small now, is unable to do anything.

Most strange how weak Team Yellow is appearing now.

Perhaps all they have is money now, their influence has been severely weakened due to their rampant corruption and favoritism since 2006 ?

Perhaps even more strange, is they are winning. Abhisit's popularity is skyrocketing even among the silent red majority, and the entire red leadership is in total disarray. Just now posted: Seh Daeng is arguing with other leaders about moving barricades.

Abhisit will go down in Thai history as the first great Thai PM, his peaceful ways will make him world famous. He already has most of the Thai female vote becasue he is so cute.

Abhisit is universally hated amongst the majority of Thai people, for being behind the killing of many innocents on April 10th. He has nothing to lose now as he already appears to have lost his reputation totally.

Red leadership, sorry, from what I see on UDDThailand TV via the internet there are no problems.

Perhaps you read YELLOW PROPAGANDA media which pumps out all sorts of strange stories and accusations, anything anti-red they can make up it seems.

You are now wrong for all to see. Thais are not people of hate, it is not in their culture nor in their hearts, never has been and never will be. Your " "knowledge" is weak and your views disolve like vapor in the wind.

Do you get the feeling that since the pro-Yellow leaders of the army who attacked on April 10th got targeted and shot, that in fact now the pro-Yellow side of the Army cannot muster much support and is very weak ?

I mean, according to the headline they were getting the crack forces ready, what happened ? Did it come to total perhaps 1000 who were Yellow enough to do the work of the puppet masters ?

When the Yellow's protested the police were used against them and the Yellow army sides helped the PAD and gave them training.

Its no surprise now that everyone else ignores the Reds, and the Yellow army side, which appears to be very small now, is unable to do anything.

Most strange how weak Team Yellow is appearing now.

Perhaps all they have is money now, their influence has been severely weakened due to their rampant corruption and favoritism since 2006 ?

Perhaps even more strange, is they are winning. Abhisit's popularity is skyrocketing even among the silent red majority, and the entire red leadership is in total disarray. Just now posted: Seh Daeng is arguing with other leaders about moving barricades.

Abhisit will go down in Thai history as the first great Thai PM, his peaceful ways will make him world famous. He already has most of the Thai female vote becasue he is so cute.

Be prepared for a lot more and larger bombings

Remember this guy ?

many ton's of war weapons and explosives disappeared from his army camp. He was arrested but than bailed

Even though he looks more like a crook, he is an army general who has his hands on tons of explosives and guns. It would be silly to assume he had no knowledge of such a huge amount of weapons and explosives disappearing from his barracks.

He also is evidently a deciding force behind the red mob as has been made clear with the re-erection of the barricades on his orders. It is save to assume that he is responsible for the terrorist activities of the red's and we may see the first "war-lord" here. he is probably the most dangerous of them all and has hundreds of followers among the soldiers he used to command and of course brainwash for his cause - little brain - easy to wash - just like he was brain washed by Thaksin or one of his henchmen

One should be prepared for a lot more bombings since this lovely chap has closed all doors behind him and now has no choice but to prevail, just as all the other leaders of the red mob. They are with their "backs against a wall" since to give up is not really an option anymore, things have gone way too far and long prison sentences would be a certainty.

We are now facing cornered animals who will do anything to succeed !

I said yesterday that the sudden decline of red credibility may not be the end, rather the opening curtain on the final act. A lot of bridges have been burned and I don't think one tactical defeat (Viphawadi) and one strategic slip (the hospital) is going to make the leadership surrender their lives.

Seh Daeng is not brainwashed and is not brainwashable , he is a highly intelligent, uncontrollable, self guided missle, and a nice guy to those that support him. THe story I like to tell (documented) is:

After Seh Daeng began visiting Thaksin is Cambodia, Anupong (his boss) relived Seh Daeng of his current responsibilites and instructed him to teach a dancing class. Seh Daeng is quoted as saying "I will prepare only one lesson, how to throw a grenade." He was later relieved and the day after, Anupong's office was bombed with a grenade. Seh Daeng was implicated.

Two days ago I wandered through the Red area. I would estimate numbers to be down more than 90% from my previous visit 9 days earlier. People look tired, the smiles and sense of sanuk are largely gone.

How many of them are there. I mean, as an estimate. A thousand? Five thousand? Ten thousand?

It's hard to tell with all that netting.

How long could you go on M150, Thai whisky, sleeping on the street, listening to a Thai sound system 24 hours a day, under the constant fear of attack before your smile would fade?

It's my own theory, but I believe that the Thais are genetically incapable of sensory overload, be it, hot food, noise, color, etc.

For those who may not have seen one, this is a rural sound-truck, can also be classified as a sonic weapon. The occasion was a donation to the local wat to build a new restroom, big event. Sorry, I just love these people.

Go and arrest Red shirt leaders who have been on the Wanted list for weeks:

- Payap

- Seh Daeng

- Issan Rambo Kittaya, and all the rest.

Seh Daeng and Gen Khittaya are the same guy. Two for one.

I agree that the storming of the hospital was disgraceful. However, we should not be at all surprised. Thai society's attitude to anyone other than thyself is pretty shocking on the whole. How many Bangkokians actually make the effort to move their vehicle out the way of an ambulance stuck in traffic? Mmmmmm ... on a good day around 0.01% I would guess.

Don't think for a moment that the majority of the Thai population gives two hoots about what happened at Chulalongkorn Hospital last night. It's yesterday's news and the soap operas are more entertaining.

Don't think so. Teachers, doctors, and healing are pretty revered in Thai society. A bunch of lowly common thugs causing so much disruption and unhappiness to such revered work is going to be much more scandalous here than it would be in the West.

Sad. There are lots of sad stories coming out about this now, but dont worry Jatuporn said it is justified to do all this as did Nattawut and belatedly after apologising Weng, so at least the red leadeship are now agreed that whatever happened at Chula and whatever the patients have to put up with it is justified.

Anybody who has had abdominal or spinal surgery before knows how painful any type of movement is. Even getting on to a wheelchair can take one's breath away due to the pain. Then you feel every little bump during the ride. I can recall being wheeled into an elevator and wincing just upon going over the entry part. Add to it the corner which is occasionally accidentally clipped and you see stars again, or when the catheter which is up your peter gets tripped on . Some of these patients surely suffered severe, needless pain. For what?

Obviously the hospital's decision to move them was made for the protection of the patients. However, respectfully, I never felt they were in danger of future gunshot, bombs, kidnapping or whatever and therefore think the move accomplished nothing.

If you have ever been stuck, immobilized in a hospital you will surely understand how many of those patients are very happy to be removed from the noise, commotion, and especially fear of the unknown. Stress is very bad for people with serious medical conditions.

TheRussians they were terrorists.

To the Americans they were freedom fighters, who after being abandoned became terrorists.

To most Afaganis, they are a plague similar to the red shirts, but much more puritanical.

To their brainwashed devotees to 7th century Islamic lifestyle they are freedom fighters.

Similar to the brain washed indoctrination of the red shirts, they have been told so often

and so excluding other options of thought that they think ONLY WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN TOLD TO THINK.

So to make a relational comparision of Red Shirts methods and Taliban methods is not a stretch,

even if the end goals are much different.

In my conclusion,

Freedom fighters & terrorist are the same group of people.

The only different is, if you win or loss the war.

Bad Good luck both sides.

Under the taliban, no one has any freedom, girls cannot go to school, no music anywhere, cut your tongue out if you say something bad. Cannot be freedom fighters, I think.

Do what Caesar did in Gaul. Surround their barricade with a better one.

I have thought that too, build a large concrete wall and some doors. Above the doors write "Bangkok Prison II".

Loss of face will send many home.

I would also love this to be reported internationally, the fact that many of their so called freedom fighters are being held against their will by intimidation tactics.

Freedom fighters & terrorist are the same group of people.

The only different is, if you win or loss the war.

Good luck both sides.

The term "Freedom Fighters" denotes connotations of say the French Underground during WW2 that over threw the Nazis.

The term "Terrorists" denotes connotations of Al Queda ... bombing markets etc... attacks on civilian targets.

I think saying "Good luck to both sides" is in bad taste to both the Government, the Reds and Thai people in general.

This isn't a war yet... and you don't want one.

Cheers

Quick question.

The Taliban fighting the Soviet, and now the Americans.

What shall we call them?

Freedom fighters of their mother land; or terrorist of the western world?

You should read some of the things they do to their own people, then make up your own mind.

Thaksin killed nobody. And the number of 2600+ Thai killed in the war of drug exaggerated and outdated and not conform with the latest investigation.

Prove it. Your statement is at odds with almost every report by domestic and international journalists.

What latest investigation? Got a source for that latest investigation?

What was exaggerated about the deaths? Got a source for that one too?

Enlighten us please mazeltov

An independent committee probing drug-related killings during the first Thaksin Shinawatra government has found no concrete evidence linking senior figures with the murders, a Justice Ministry source said yesterday.

After five months of inquiries, the panel, led by former attorney general Khanit na Nakhon, has obtained only statistical details about the number and nature of the murders.

But no conclusion that would implicate police or Thaksin as the instigator of the shoot-to-kill policy has been reached.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/01/16...al_30062378.php

a lot of the death were just "normal homicides" that would had occurred without war on drugs or not.

Let's paste the rest of that article. According to various sources, many of the extrajudicial killings that were related to Thaksin's program were not really related to drugs but were mislabeled as such. I would say mozeltov's viewpoint is not reflected by the vast majority of the international reporting on the drug war.

Rest of the article

The outcome [of the investigation] is likely to be considered by many as a failure, because the panel's objective was to bring those responsible for the murders to justice - be they police officers or anyone in higher authority who encouraged extrajudicial killings.

The Khanit na Nakhon panel is said to have opted not to name at least three political office-holders involved in administering Thaksin's highly controversial policy, despite discovering their involvement.

The report said 2,819 people were killed in 2,559 murder cases between February and April in 2003. Of those killed, 1,370 were related to drug dealing, while 878 of them were not. Another 571 people were killed without apparent reason.

Some 54 people were killed in shootouts with police officers, 41 with known drug-related links but two without any known ties. Another 11 people were killed but it is not known how they were involved in the shootouts.

The overall murder rate two years before and two years after the three-month 'War on Drugs' was 454 cases a month, or a third of the number killed between February and April 2003.

Edit: Oops, I see this was already done. Well, worth pointing out.

A piece from breaking news...

"The doctors, who performed the autopsy, announced that the troop, Pvt Narongrit Sala, was killed by a bullet fired from a far distance and the bullet entered his left side of the brain."

I thought "official" story from BBC was that the soldier was killed from a close distance by policeman, after the soldier drove through the red barricade and was mistaken for a protester going at the army.

The "from a far distance" does not support the story. Did BBC get it wrong again?

I'm surprised the BBC correspondent hasn't got a red shirt on when reporting.

Got a source on that?

Yes, a source would be interesting.

Late last night, my wife watched a TV report showing the video that's been shown here, a group of people on bikes riding towards the line of soldiers when one of them is shot. They also showed pictures of a "third party" located on the side and reported that the soldier who was shot was shot through the head, and helmet from left side to right side. Conclusion was the soldier was not shot from the line of soldiers.

I (me) also note that a puff of smoke seen in the video from the right flank of the line of soldiers would not be from a high power rifle, which produces little or no smoke.

Reds in Bangkok storm a hospital looking for soldiers.

Reds in Khon Kaen blockade an Airport looking for a doctor.

Red leader storms a McDonald's and attacks a Big Mac.

A horse walks into a bar, the bartender says "why the long face"

Only one is a joke.

LOLOLOLOL

Markokang --- why do not even the Reds document what you claim?

The initial tweets in the Nation's daily news thread reported the sound of gunfire, which was later corrected to be fire crackers.

Obviously one of the two reports is wrong.

I was there: I have a photo of the shells, meaningless I know, as that could have been taken anywhere.

Where was "The Nation" when this happened?

But I AM surprised it was reported as firecrackers! Thats a blatant lie (or serious mistake) by someone.

Oh, I believe your story could be true, I was only pointing out that the correction saying the initial gunfire sound was actually firecrackers could equally be wrong. If the gunfire was very short lived, as you say, the reporter may have backtracked out of uncertainty, since he didn't see.

Post the shell pictures, be interesting.

I can't rember the details leading up to the 2006 coup.

Look at Wiki, it's not bad ...

I was here during the all "tenure" of Thaksin, the country had become a

"banana Republic" ...

Which has now turned into a "Rotten Banana Republic".

.......... since Thaksin has decided to come back.... in force.

I hope the reds are very proud of what they have achieved.

My late father in law spent time in that hospital for cancer treatment. Knowing how ill he was, my thoughts go out to all the patients who now have to be moved because of this reckless act of terrorism.

Coming close to where all embassies will be telling their citizens to return home since it is clear NOBODY is safe in Thailand anymore due to the red mob.

Go home where? My homecoutnry Switzerland is occupied by Ex Jugos, Arabs, Albanians, Turks, Nigerians, Afgans, Maroks, other Arabs, and all that kind of peaple. There is no home!

Please, all European countries do have the same problem now. One problem are the laws, which doesn't allow governments to send them home under Asylum law.

Your country isn't occupied and you're a Swiss national. What does your problems in Switzerland have to do with red shirts here?

Don't you think that some Thais are saying the same bla, blabla, like you did?

"Thailand is occupied by Swiss, English, Americans, Germans, Russians, Austrians, Australians, and so on." Would you like to hear that?

Thailand is unusual in their open and unreserved acceptance of westerners and western ways. Part cultural and probably part historical dating to the time of Rama V. If you want proof, just watch the Thai soaps and see how many actors and actresses, half of whom are Luk khreung, look more western.

Sorry to hear about Switzerland, I grew up in Geneva. We had some French at the time but that was about it.

LOL

So what did he do ?

Kill patients ?

Beat up nurses ?

Make people die through lack of treatment ?

They did nothing.

The hospital can run as normal last night and today but IT DECIDES NOT TO, have they been "paid off" to put on a media circus show and play to the TV and other YELLOW media for the "mass propaganda".

More propaganda, just like Silom BTS attack and the claims of Suthep and the Yellow shirts and Yellow newspapers after that happened.

Pure BS.

LevelHead

You do a great diservice to your Thai visa moniker! I am sure that many Thais are confused as to what 'Level head' actually means. Perhaps it is someone who thinks, objectively, and makes balanced decisions and comments that are based on reason rather than emotion. In fact the term 'Level head' encompasses most things that you are not!

In this case it would seem to mean one who's head has been leveled by a falling anvil.

Markokang --- why do not even the Reds document what you claim?

The initial tweets in the Nation's daily news thread reported the sound of gunfire, which was later corrected to be fire crackers.

Obviously one of the two reports is wrong.

I posted this on the other thread, but am re-posting it here, as I would welcome thoughts on this:

I have a feeling (confirmed by Weng's "apology" this morning), that we have seen the last of the violence. The Vibhavadi Road incident was a turning point. The Reds are losing the propaganda war. Thaksin's confiscated money has today be transferred out of his and his kids frozen accounts and to the Ministry of Finance.

The battle is over. It's now all about face-saving. How do both sides end this without looking like they lost? My bet is a third party (I don't mean the King) will have to come in and negotiate. I doubt it will be EU/UN because that would be unacceptable to the gov't. Must be some respected and neutral person within Thai life, if there is any left?

Anybody?

By now, it's abundantly clear that the government is caught between a rock and a hard place, damned if they do and damned if they don't. Abhisit's position is: we will not use excessive force against our fellow Thais and, within our power to do so, we will not allow lawlessness. As Abhisit slowly walks along this tightrope, the policy seems to be having its effect. The reds are roaming less, beginning to stumble, and a few critical arrests have been made, including one (the arms dealer) that may have made the difference between disaster and a successful demonstration of crowd control.

The table is turning ever so slightly, and the red leadership is beginning to see their own tightrope. As their violent methods are exposed again and again, they have become more cautious in their actions but, like the government, sitting and doing nothing will lead to defeat.

Maybe this is a good environment to begin honest negotiation however, real negotiation will require a horizontal fracture in the red command. Both the head red and the wild red must see the situation and an order for a final application of violence to detonate the situation is clearly possible. Keep in mind, if the situation were to end with an appearant victory for the principles of calm laid down by PM Aphisit, the political loss for the other side could be intolerable.

Rather than being over, it could be the rising curtain on the final act.

However, it may be too late to change the name on the loser's headstone. RIP exiled convicted ex-prime minster K. Mr. Dr. T

p.s. where has the word 'invading' come from, as far as I can see theyw ere denied access then allowed access, they entered at the invitation of the hospital, hardly and invasion so lets keep the hysterics to a minimum, I think we can use the term 'invasion' for such things as taking over airports en masse etc. Drama queens on here are really unbelievable.

The hospital officials refused entry to the mob.

After some time the hosiptal said they would allow 5 people in.

As soon as the doors were opened, a large mob entered, illegally, against the will of the hospital.

p.s. acquiescence under threat is not considered permission. cut the drama, get some facts.

Either gunshots or a firecracker is being heard at Chula. Just how far will they go? A hospital of all places. No respect for anyone, even those who are in need of medical help. Sickening.

Of course this is not their FIRST hospital invasion this MONTH...

Lets not forget the emergency room Body Snatching scenes from two weeks back.

Yes, we're talking about a hospital. It's a hospital. Since when are hospitals in Thailand a political target? Only since the Redshirts came along and on the scene. If I knew nothing else of Thailand and the conflicts of the past decade, this would be all I'd need to know about present events, circumstances and the 'players', for sure. This would be all I'd need to know of the Redshirts and Thaksin.

Certain hospitals chose to become political by refusing to treat police injured by PAD, so it would be fair to say they become political targets before the redshirts came along.

Can you please name the hospitals that refused to treat wounded?

BTW, How many PAD were killed that day?

Source

http://thaicrisis.wordpress.com/2008/10/08...ured-policemen/