Crushdepth

Under the news censorship rules. I am expecting everybody who has ever had anything to do with the Shins to be found guilty of many crimes. Next will be anybody who has been associated with the UDD and then it will be anybody who is critical of the army. Then everybody who demands elctions.

They will all be guilty.

Jeeze guy, give it a rest. Your side lost, in spades.

Democracy has not lost, it is just taking a rest. The people of Thailand will, one day, have democracy again and the Ammart will take it away again, but eventually democracy will triumph.

It is just a matter of time and the people are getting stronger.

I applaud you for supporting democracy. I am sad for you that you believe Thaksin's way of governing was remotely democratic.

Unless you think lying, cheating, stealing, extra judicial executions, oppression of free speech, blocking of transparency and accountability are democratic of course.

Thaksin has the same brand of democracy as Mugabe, Hun Set, Amin, Gaddaffi, and all the other tin pot dictators whose families always seem to do handsomely whilst their countries don't.

^^ this. Full marks for ideological correctness Dr Bruce, but you need to bloody wake up to the reality of what the hell has been going on.

Thumbs up for paying up promptly. Too bad the crap bag ex-government couldn't do anything but line its own pockets.

Don't think so.

Under the news censorship rules. I am expecting everybody who has ever had anything to do with the Shins to be found guilty of many crimes. Next will be anybody who has been associated with the UDD and then it will be anybody who is critical of the army. Then everybody who demands elctions.

They will all be guilty.

Jeeze guy, give it a rest. Your side lost, in spades.

Democracy has not lost, it is just taking a rest. The people of Thailand will, one day, have democracy again and the Ammart will take it away again, but eventually democracy will triumph.

It is just a matter of time and the people are getting stronger.

Oh The People's this, The People's that, spare us the commie <deleted>. There is no "people" this is a divided country. Speaking of "the people" as if they are a single group and all of one mind is an embarrassingly cheap theatrical device.

Thaksin's rampant abuse of the system has set Thai democracy back 10-15 years. His main service to the country has been to highlight the pathetic and broken state of governance in Thailand. The system needs better anti-tamper controls to curtail the excesses of such people.

In reality there was very little 'corruption' in the rice pledging farm subsidy.. the notion that 'it incurred billions in losses' is a joke, it's a subsidy, of course 'it incurs losses'.. but ultimately the entire program was maybe 5% of the national budget-with most of this 'wasted money' going to poor farmers- under the Abhisit regime the rice subsidy was the 'Farmers Insurance' program, and what , an 'insurance' subsidy is going to have 0 graft, not-liklyand it was just as expensive as the pledging program.. The entire case against Yingluck and her commerce minister is based on the notion that they 'knew corruption was happening but did nothing to stop it'.. EVERY entitlement program is going to have some 'corruption', this article is proof that the 'corruption' wasn't that bad, just a few forged documents.

the entire smear campaign was just a tool for the establishment to sabotage the democratically elected government, notice how as soon as the military took over the farmers were immediately paid because the 'caretaker' government for 6 months was not allowed to pay them, legal restrictions, Banks refusing to give the govt short term loads, and rich Thai's affiliated with the pdrc threatening to run on any bank that loaned money to the government. If it hadn't been the rice pledging 'scheme' then the establishment would have made something else an 'isssue of corruption' like they could have said that there was cost overruns in infrastructure spending and this was 'corruption'.

The RPPs positioned as profitable and 'only' needing a revolving funds for initial payments was a disaster. Even now we only seem to know that 500 billion Baht (i.e. 500,000,000,000) has been lost. Poor farmers still poor, some farmers only being paid after six or more months. No transparency neither responsibility by the Yingluck administration. Utterly criminally negligent.

The possible losses seem to approach the level which would have seen the deficit in the National Budget almost double for THREE years in a row. The wasted money, where is it? Till now no one knows. The only thing we know is that it is NOT with the poor farmers is was meant for.

The Abhisit government 'minimum price guarantee' payable directly to farmers let to complaints that it wasn't enough. Still it went directly to farmers.

The only campaign I see now it some people desperately trying to obfuscate, tell halftruths or even lies.

A Yingluck government which said mid-2013 to need only 270 billion Baht for 2013/2014 RPPS and to have the funding. Many months bills not paid till in December the caretaker government tried to borrow 'only' 130 billion Baht.

Now it seems to become clear why the suddenly 'blanket' amnesty bill covered not only Thaksin's last two years in/out of office, but even the first two years of Yingluck administration. They simply KNEW they would need it.

Lost to whom?

How much was pilfered and how much is simply the difference between the global and paid price?

That is the issue, not the subsidy loss.

So you say it's not clear whether Thaksin and his PT government are guilty of incompetence or corruption... or maybe both?

One thing does seem quite clear though, Thailand is better off without them.

edit typo

Its not illegal to be incompetent. I wish they could apply that to Gordon brown but alas.

Its not illegal to splurge public money.

It's illegal to steal it though, and to arrange things such that your cronies can siphon it off.

What is your source..you claim the PT, Yingluck said the rice pledging program would not cost anything and they guaranteed this, when and where did they say this.. i think it was more expensive then they thought- its called a cost overrun.. NONE of that is corruption anymore than Abhists aircraft carrier.. slopy policy is not 'corruption'

This is a matter of public record, so get on Google and look it up yourself if you want to claim that night is day. And it's called a 'loss' actually. This scheme - designed by economic retards - has lost huge amounts of taxpayers money. So much for making a profit! When the court cases are finished we will add the word 'corruption' to description of the scam as well. I think 'disaster' is probably also appropriate.

Someone's a little sore that their favourite government got the finger...

A bit funny how things twist and turn.

At one time it was said that Thaksin was pushing for a coup so then he could blame them for PTP downfall.

Now at last we have some sort of order and reform +investigations, it has been twisted around. Thaksin pushing the reds to make problems shot themselves in the foot. LOVELY.

The only memory I have of anybody saying that Thaksin wanted anything like a coup was when the fascists were trying to blame him for the fake bomb attacks that always seem to destroy the toilets.

Thaksin would never want a coup, there was only one side that wanted to do away with democracy in this great land. Now we have a Junta that has promised reforms to the constitution that they wrote in 2007 and the people were never allowed to change.

I expect that the Junta will do a better job this time and we will have a rock-solid set of laws that will achieve the desired aims.

Oh don't be nieve. Faced with a hopeless situation, the coup makes Thaksin's opponents look bad and gives him ammunition for the next round. It's a better way to go out than being exposed and flushed down the toilet by the court system.

Poor Thaksin, he's a victim.

There is no 'proof' that PT politicians 'stole money' , the coup-establishment-biased nacc never accused them of this, all they said was that Yingluck 'knew corruption existed and did nothing to stop it' hence she was charged with 'dereliction of duty' The nacc did not previously prosecute anyone of graft in relation to the rice pledging program., which makes their case against her very weak. Wasn't the nacc 'derelict in its duty' when it never prosecuted rice pledging graft? i mean that's their job, not hers especially since it claims graft was occurring at 'every level'?

Where is the proof or source of the accusations of graft by PT MP's? it doesn't exist.

Where is the graft? this article says " based on current information, there were 10 cases that were under investigation by officials, and that all of the cases involved counterfeiting of rice mortgage documents – primarily the warehouse receipts."

in other words they are not finding significant graft here, just 10 forged documents, some low level scam-maybe! its still maybe at this point, AND they havn't prosecuted A SINGLE PERSON for it yet, for 6 months they investigate this and not 1 person , other than Yingluck, has been indicted, but the NaCC said there was massive graft here-its a bunch of bullshit.. I never heard of rice pledging corruption before the protests started in November, once the protests started they desperately had to come up with anything to hang the government on, this balouny was the best they could come up with and the transfer of 1 person--the big corruption.

Yingluck and the PT never 'stole money' from 'other projects' what is your source of all this graft as not even the nacc is charging anyone with this? your making the accusations, so you come up with the source.. we're looking for something like where someone 'stole' rice, or embezzled money from government coffers..where is this? you keep saying it happened, but the investigators are coming up craps, thats what this article is about.

it will 'come to light' WHEN, its been 6 months!

If the Shinawatras wanted to make money they would have stayed out of politics in the first place, Thaksin has had 2/3s of his assets seized, he's in this for the money?

NACC has charged plenty of people over the rice scam, including the former commerce minister. Their cases have not yet been heard, as you are well aware. So to say there's no proof of graft is disingenuous. Deliberate misdirection, actually.

Since when is six months a long time for an investigation? If it had been done in less than that you'd be wailing that it had been rushed through and was unfair treatment. Sound familiar?

Only an utter imbecile could believe the rice scam was corruption free. I mean really, this is Thailand for God's sake. When they find the missing 3 million tonnes that is ermmm being milled somewhere...let me know.

Gen P live on TV has just said a new government by 1st October 2014 but no mention of elections?

After reform, which he said would probably take 12-14 months. A bit slower than a lot of people were hoping but presumably this time they want to be thorough.

It's speaks volumes that the Shins didn't bother to move the timber after the coup. Still didn't expect to get busted? Really?

Raping natural resources, who would have thought? These people are disgusting.

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"Under his (Thaiksin's) leadership..."? Are you that ignorant of the history of Thailand or are you attempting to rewrite history? Thailand was at least as corrupt before Thaksin as it has been since he was first elected. Also, what makes you think the military will make fighting a corruption a priority? Do you think they have a squeaky clean reputation?

What amazes and disturbs me most is the attitude of many people that any kind of government is better than a democracy they don't like. They actually think a military dictatorship is a good idea.

Nobody would deny that corruption was well installed before the paymaster entered politics.

Nobody with any morals would deny that he ramped it up to new heights, much of it quite open and with no conscience, plus serious intimidation of any journalists who tried to report the details.

But hey you don't mention any the other factors involved: human rights abuses, massive rice scam, abuse of power, attempts to pass unethical bills to white wash / amnesty the paymasters legitimate conviction and give amnesty to all people (some 2,500) on corruption charges at 3.00 am n the morning when the country is sleeping, and ...................................................................

Where do you get your information? Certainly not here, http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2011/07/09/thailands-corruption-record/, which indicates a slight fall in corruption after Thaksin took office, and a significant jump after the 2006 coup. And not here http://assassinationthaksin.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/thaksin-corruption-what-transparency-international-says-vs-what-elite-thai-establishment-says/ where it states:

"On comparing Thaksin to other people, to see if he is more or less corrupt, please check out Transparency International data. The fact is, Transparency International data, sees Thaksin’s government, as less corrupt than the 2006 coup government, or the military installed Abhisit government. In fact, for the past 10 years or so, Thaksin’s government, according to Transparency International, is least corrupt of all."

Your morality statement is interesting; am I immoral for relying on referenced facts as opposed to "heard in a bar" claims?

What human rights were abused under Yingluck? Why do you call the rice subsidies a scam when they were implemented openly? They may have been bad policy but they weren't a scam. The "abuse of power" that had her removed from office was her re-assigning a minister appointed by Abhisit, a routine thing in most countries. The amnesty bill was debated and reported on, proved unpopular, and discarded. Whatever Yingluck did wrong should have been rectified with an election.

Yingluck recognized her fall in popularity and attempted to let the Thai people choose to keep her or remove her from office. We know what happened with that attempt. Her successor tried to have an election so Thailand could have a democratically elected government, and then....

Clearly you don't like the choice the Thai people made in the 2011 election. Tough, democracy only works if the people who lose an election accept that they lost and try to make themselves more appealing in the next election. Someone should explain that to Suthep and the Democrats, it's not a democracy if there are no elections.

Look if you want to pretend Thaksin isn't corrupt or the rice scheme wasn't riddled with corruption, or see the amnesty bill farce for what it was then you just aren't worth talking too. Did you just arrive recently or are you sitting in a dimly lit boiler room somewhere?

Transparency International, Jezuz!

That's fine with me, you don't strike me as someone who wants to engage in a rational debate using referenced sources about democracy versus the established vote-coup-vote-coup pattern.

You are not rational, and a debate is impossible. Selectively drawing on "references" to support a ridiculous argument does lend it credibility. Particularly when the argument flies in the face of real world Thailand.

No corruption eh? Very convincing, carry on.

Sent from somewhere in the Pacific

"Under his (Thaiksin's) leadership..."? Are you that ignorant of the history of Thailand or are you attempting to rewrite history? Thailand was at least as corrupt before Thaksin as it has been since he was first elected. Also, what makes you think the military will make fighting a corruption a priority? Do you think they have a squeaky clean reputation?

What amazes and disturbs me most is the attitude of many people that any kind of government is better than a democracy they don't like. They actually think a military dictatorship is a good idea.

Nobody would deny that corruption was well installed before the paymaster entered politics.

Nobody with any morals would deny that he ramped it up to new heights, much of it quite open and with no conscience, plus serious intimidation of any journalists who tried to report the details.

But hey you don't mention any the other factors involved: human rights abuses, massive rice scam, abuse of power, attempts to pass unethical bills to white wash / amnesty the paymasters legitimate conviction and give amnesty to all people (some 2,500) on corruption charges at 3.00 am n the morning when the country is sleeping, and ...................................................................

Where do you get your information? Certainly not here, http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2011/07/09/thailands-corruption-record/, which indicates a slight fall in corruption after Thaksin took office, and a significant jump after the 2006 coup. And not here http://assassinationthaksin.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/thaksin-corruption-what-transparency-international-says-vs-what-elite-thai-establishment-says/ where it states:

"On comparing Thaksin to other people, to see if he is more or less corrupt, please check out Transparency International data. The fact is, Transparency International data, sees Thaksin’s government, as less corrupt than the 2006 coup government, or the military installed Abhisit government. In fact, for the past 10 years or so, Thaksin’s government, according to Transparency International, is least corrupt of all."

Your morality statement is interesting; am I immoral for relying on referenced facts as opposed to "heard in a bar" claims?

What human rights were abused under Yingluck? Why do you call the rice subsidies a scam when they were implemented openly? They may have been bad policy but they weren't a scam. The "abuse of power" that had her removed from office was her re-assigning a minister appointed by Abhisit, a routine thing in most countries. The amnesty bill was debated and reported on, proved unpopular, and discarded. Whatever Yingluck did wrong should have been rectified with an election.

Yingluck recognized her fall in popularity and attempted to let the Thai people choose to keep her or remove her from office. We know what happened with that attempt. Her successor tried to have an election so Thailand could have a democratically elected government, and then....

Clearly you don't like the choice the Thai people made in the 2011 election. Tough, democracy only works if the people who lose an election accept that they lost and try to make themselves more appealing in the next election. Someone should explain that to Suthep and the Democrats, it's not a democracy if there are no elections.

Look if you want to pretend Thaksin isn't corrupt or the rice scheme wasn't riddled with corruption, or see the amnesty bill farce for what it was then you just aren't worth talking too. Did you just arrive recently or are you sitting in a dimly lit boiler room somewhere?

Transparency International, Jezuz!

In other news, Thailand's economic growth doubled for approximately 37 minutes...

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What kind of stupid shitbag bombs a hospital?

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This is never going to work.

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How strange that in less than a week the Army can pay the farmers but the PTP exgovernment couldn't manage to do the same thing in more than 9 MONTHS.

A Thai farmer has told me that the Bank refused to pay out in a political move against the last government and has sat on the cash. I hope action is taken against the bank if this is proved correct.

A Thai farmer told ME that if you put a used pair of red panties from a widow on a flag pole it wouldn't rain!

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Those are big panties

Yawn. What did you expect them to say? Too bad these countries lack the courage to pontificate about rampant corruption and extra judicial slaughter.

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Give Gen P a chance to sort it. He's a damn site better that what we have had these past 6 months. It will take an iron fist to bring the rampant disregard for law and order under control. Let him do his job.

what is "we" tonto? are you a thai? butt out! remember in martial law they can boot you out of the country within 24 hours without any mexcuse!

Are you the thought police? Butt out yourself or go stick your head in a convenient pile of sand if you wish.

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This thread is a year old. Just sayin'

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3 million tonnes of rice is missing from warehouses. Awesome work Yingluck.

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