truethailand

When will the PTP learn that democracy is about the majority. If they can't get the majority to support their amendments, then they don't survive. You don't just throw a hissy fit and refuse to take part. They're like children.

I liked the line about showing "a gesture of opposition". They are the opposition. They are working on being in opposition for a long time.

I would have put my shirt on you being the first to reply on this Thread..

Excellent post.. but dont tell the Dem supporters they may have to hide heads in sand again. AS pointed out and history proves when there is a threat to the real power in this country, not all the army , just certain parts of the army, the only way to contain a threat and keep an iron grip on their wealth is too have a coup. Its coming and nobody will stop it.. deny all you wish this is what as happened for many decades.

I thank you, and I conceitedly concur that the post is 'excellent'. However, I fear you may have misread it.

The only way a coup can continue to occur is if the people continue to create the kind of climate from which those seeking power by force get their mandate to act.

It's not the Democrat supporters with their heads in the sand imo. The Democrats do not = The Royal Thai Army. The Red Shirts just think they are one and the same, understandably perhaps, but then politics is often not what it seems. Nowhere is that more apparent than in Thailand.

At the end of the day, the people will get what the people deserve - by virtue of apathy or ignorance. This is true in every nation, democratic or not.

Agree it is easy for the red cause to link the dems with the army. We have all the pieces of the jigsaw but we are not allowed to finish the puzzle. Enough said

It's not rocket science.

It's not rocket science.

It's certainly not.

I am making a point, many on here are quick to point to the wrongdoings of the TRT/PTP etc, however when the shoe is on the other foot they try to defend the indefensible

The shoe has never been on the other foot, no matter how much TRT/PTP would like to pretend that it is. The 'indefensible' is a word more aptly applied to the initial shoe. But all of that is moot, anyway. This isn't a 'great' article, as it's being heralded. It's not even a 'good' article. It fails to acknowledge the realities, which are:

Constitutional Court rules in favour of Democrats, Reds riot because justice for them exists only in court decisions in their favour, Army suppresses riots, Army gets more powerful.

Constitutional Court rules against Democrats, general election is called, Abhisit resigns then realises that ministers cannot be forced to resign (which we all know the Constitution didn't have the foresight to deal with) and returns to the PM's office like one of his predecessors did, Army is forced to remove him with a bloodless coup (due to no legal options left), Army gets more powerful.

Constitutional Court rules against Democrats, general election is called, BJT & PTP and / or other parties form a 'coalition' with enough seats to form government, a government which plans to hand Thaksin amnesty for all past crimes, pardon for any crimes not yet committed, and effectively a severe blow to the monarchy, Royal Thai Army tanks do not concur, Army gets more powerful.

I'm sure there are other possibilities. All of them result in:

THE ARMY GETS MORE POWERFUL.

A good article would have pointed out to the Reds that Abhisit is their best 'chance' of slow improvements, of slow change to the status quo. They don't want slow change, which I understand, but they shouldn't be fooled into thinking they have a shot. They are being fooled this way, and the end result is any rioting they do will result in only one thing: The Army getting more powerful.

Excellent post.. but dont tell the Dem supporters they may have to hide heads in sand again. AS pointed out and history proves when there is a threat to the real power in this country, not all the army , just certain parts of the army, the only way to contain a threat and keep an iron grip on their wealth is too have a coup. Its coming and nobody will stop it.. deny all you wish this is what as happened for many decades.

buying seats was localised so it would be unfair to compare to the signs which were national. It is easy to say vote buying bought one particular seat and did not influence people outside of that one constituency. Signs placed nationwide or in more than one constituency would affect more than one constiuency.

yes, it is not rocket science when logic is used.

edit to add:

the fact is, however much spin you guys want to try and put on this, the dems had an unfair advantage by breaching EC regulations, none of you can say for sure how it affected results, but it would be fair to say it must have had some effect. now your boys will be disbanded and quite rightly so, hopefully 5 year banning all round, including abhisit.

The hypocrisy of him is clear, he talks about not wanting corruption but was a senior member in a party that breached Ec regulations on at least 3 occasions and now rather than hold their hands up they try to weasel out of it, clean PM, my arse.

The fact is, the Democrats have yet to be found guilty of breaching EC regulations, how ever YOU want to spin it.

And as you say, none of us can say how it affected the results, so why are you so adamant that they got an advantage out of it. They would have had signs out there anyway. How could a sign that is SLIGHTLY smaller than regulation have affected the results in any way?

As to the charges of the illegal donations, that isn't even in court yet, so a) we don't know if it was illegal, and b ) we don't know how the money was used.

But continue to spin away.

RANDOM' Please take some advice... give up. Keep your beliefs you are not alone. When the change comes and it will come, all the head in the sand forum posters and those with an agenda will be running for the wardrobe, looking for a little fetching red number. Disowning their dem comrades by burning their little plastic hand clappers in their surburban gardens. I and many others understand your reasoning and so do they but they seem to have adopted the Thai trait of burying their heads in the sand when something wont go away. All the talking in the world will stop the inevitable.. just chill RANDOM The meek shall inherit the earth and when we look back in many years time history will not be to kind to those who Govern Thailand at present

Maybe it should read 'convicted criminal Sondhi Limthongkul', I detest this guy but at least he has finally realised that abhist is a damp squib

K. Sondhi was convicted to pay damages in a defamation case against k. Thaksin. Does that justify 'convicted criminal' ?

As for calling PM Abhisit a 'damp squib', name calling may be a British tradition, but not done in Thailand. Please tone down your replies.

Damp squid "please tone it down' you need get out more.. Thats the nicest thing most are saying. I can forgive Suthep he does not know any better but Abhisit was raised in a more democratic country with at least some standards and morals, he knows real democracy but comes back as leader and oversees the massacre of his own people. I cannot believe for one minute he wanted that outcome but the ones pulling his strings did. We call that a puppet

And if I am not mistaken Sondhi went bankrupt for around a billion baht and there was some dodgy deal with a man he knew at a bank. If we wait long enough we may have a luk krueng Prime Minister who can draw on experience from two cultures not just this corrupt one.

Yep, there are also a few reports that suggest it is not only about using taxpayers money.

See this link

There would be a lot of red shirt supporters that would like to believe that.

A few red shirt supporters would like to believe "the protests in March when up to half a million people descended on ­Bangkok," too.

What is your mandate and who give it you. You joined just after the first slaughter in Bangkok and of over 2200 posts most are just an opportunity to put down anything red. As a believer in social equality even I can see some good in people with different views but now you are just getting monotonous. Why spoil your valid points with vitriolic bile. Jog on Mong

2 years, by the way.

You're probably thinking of the coup. That wasn't the PAD, that was the army... or are you trying to suggest they're one and the same?

Suggesting no I am not, I am telling you one sponsors the other. Go back and look at the footage from the thai tv, when they tried to move the yellows with those cheap chinese tear gas grenades I twice saw men in army uniform carrying injured protestors away from the scene. Also who was guarding the yellows, maybe army personnel in civillian clothes with hand guns or was it some super active retired school teachers. Why did the army not move in and reopen the airport while the country was falling to its knees. The question arising from the yellow chirade are plentiful but I will be happy if you can answer these couple

Well, 10,000 protesters on a Friday at Ratchaprasong! Maybe I should take a day off rather than get stuck in traffic.

That's described as "snarling" traffic in the American notice.

It was interesting to observe the news during the floods in the south and the NE. The people in the south interviewed said they will find their own solutions on their own and take care of themselves. All the ones from Korat all wanted handouts from the government and compensation. Speaks for itself live on channel 3 just what sort of people are being bred up there.

Can't believe they are still going at it over this red shirt silliness, and all the credibility they've all lost. They need a new way of thinking.

They have a way of thinking that will remain. ' I am p1ss poor and do not want my children to go through life the same as me' We all confuse the red shirt leadership with the plight of its followers. The leadership is hel_l bent on wrestling power from the sitting incumbents, then abuse the system the way every other person in power does. The leadership needs the followers and visa versa. The followers have a social issue that will not go away, they want a better life. They want good schools, hospitals and jobs near where they live. These people have been abused as the immigrant workforce of Thailand to fill the big mans factories in places like Rayong ). Family life as a unit is all but destroyed because family members have to go away to work. If you dont agree with red politics thats fine but only a heartless person cannot recognise the plight of these people. Why have successive governments ignored the facts, the area needs massive investments.

Companies wanting to do business in Thailand should be encouraged to set up shop in poorer areas. Have you ever wondered why they build factories in the south then move the workforce from the North and North east to fill the factories.(and dont reply its because of the ports). Which farang on here originates from a country that does not give all sorts of incentives for international companies to set up in deprived areas that has the skills required (minimal). Documented on the net 'State within the State' How Thailand does business. Go google it you may start to understand what most poor people in Thailand already know

"If I had known this would be the trend, I should have done it myself. That's because if you knew how to stage a coup, then you can build democracy. End of story. But what they did was to tear up the constitution and draw up a new one. That's why Thailand has had so many [torn-up] charters."

HOW CAN STAGING A COUP BUILD DEMOCRACY? I am confused.

A coup can build democracy if those in power are by-passing the democratic checks and balances.

Coups here and most other places having nothing to do with building true democracy. They are to do with retaining and reinforcing power so effectively keeping your snout in the trough. Dont you have homework to do

General Prayuth has me worried when he speaks, he's outspoken, fine, but he doesn't come across as very smart. What worries me too is that a PT government might deliberately go on the offensive, goading the general into a coup, which might not be as smooth as the previous one, ultimately proving disastrous for the military, the general, and ultimately Thailand as a whole.

"Who wants to stage a coup at this time?" from the OP. So, the last coup was justified and another one is not ruled out. I doubt the trigger will be a new PT government. The financial markets have a shrewd idea of what the catalyst might be. As reported, General Prayuth makes it sound like it is just a matter of when.

I wish I could have explained it so eloquently. Its certainly coming and it wont be nice this time

There are dark clouds because there is no sun! there is no Aung Sun Suu Kyi in Thailand at present - Thailand desperately needs an honest leader.

Taksin to the rescue!!

More likley to have a coup.

Bookies have stopped taking money on a coup, they know its always been the trusted fallback. Take my advice do a double with Takky coming

"1,136 residents of Greater Bangkok"

1,136 residents out of millions does not make an accurate poll sample.

you could get more respondents sitting outside a fresh market.

it was obviously only created to make a statement.

It makes an accurate poll for Bangkok, as long as it wasn't taken outside a fresh market.

Sorry to burst any illusions but Bangkok is not Thailand. Come and take the poll in Udon Thani. I have seen very few public images of Khun Abhisit up here that have not been defaced and shredded. He can come see for himself but this is one part of Thailand he cannot set foot in, but then hes only got himself to blame for that

'There is not a logical reason or pressing reason for an army coup' Please tell me you wrote that without thinking and I will excuse you

Please enlighten us as to what you think a logical or pressing reason for coup is at the moment?

They wont get the water melons in next time they will not participate in any coup, It will be just about defending the interests of the few. As for your other question all I can say is think in to the future and you will see a time, maybe soon maybe later, when the few will need protecting bcos there wont be anyone else to do it. Remember rules are rules.

I do not really understand.

A coup to remove who? and replace with who?

Army chief openly does not support Reds or PT Party.

So if the was a coup, presumably to remove democrats from the government, but then who would he support?.

To be honest to me it makes not sense and if anything its another poor attempt by PT to create instability in the country and the government

"its another poor attempt by PT to create instability in the country

and the government"

That is the crux of it right there.

Instability is the ONLY thing that can give PTP anything resembling an edge.

But their main instigator of these attempts, has so little credibility outside

red circles (tail chasing) that most Thais don't get riled about his blather.

That said, It is the boiler plate announcement of the new army head,

not that he takes Jatuporns rants seriously, but better to just state 'no',

for those few who may be credulous enough to think J. is realistic.

There is not logical or pressing reason for an army coup,

army head is not letting that side of the army out of his control.

Because for that to happen at this state would mean he has acquiesced to it.

'There is not a logical reason or pressing reason for an army coup' Please tell me you wrote that without thinking and I will excuse you

Who made the allegations about a coup again?

Ah, same as the last time. And the time before that, etc etc etc.

Just look at the history, when the ruling classes are under threat they have a coup. Usually every 31/2 yrs. One s coming, not sure of the reason, you can bet your hairy bean bag on it. The Peua Thai have just stated the obvious in a vain attempt to delay it

They state "the obvious" every month or two. Why would there be a coup now or the last 5 times he's said it?

I think you know the answer but rules are rules on here

I do not really understand.

A coup to remove who? and replace with who?

Army chief openly does not support Reds or PT Party.

So if the was a coup, presumably to remove democrats from the government, but then who would he support?.

To be honest to me it makes not sense and if anything its another poor attempt by PT to create instability in the country and the government

Its not about removing people its about putting things in place for when it happens. If you need me to explain that I cant..work it out. After seeing Seh Daeng parade around in May, prior to being shot, I would say that strutting comes from a confidence that he may not be the only Army officer whos weighing up his options. I cant see the army being united if some of their officers are considering batting for the other side. Conscript walk out on the cards

Who made the allegations about a coup again?

Ah, same as the last time. And the time before that, etc etc etc.

Just look at the history, when the ruling classes are under threat they have a coup. Usually every 31/2 yrs. One s coming, not sure of the reason, you can bet your hairy bean bag on it. The Peua Thai have just stated the obvious in a vain attempt to delay it

While we are on the theme of charges does the report say how many of the prisoners being held are to face terrorism charges. Just that the current government never uses that word in despatches anymore. Not to worry it served its purpose to orchestrate their vile propaganda against political opponents. Only I was thinking that the anti reds on here have stopped saying it so much, maybe they are just mouth pieces or farangs that believe everything that is told to them. Guilty partys on both sides but still no airport terrorists incarcerated. Sorry forgot they get made government ministers. Bring on the big bang, the sooner the better

Whatever the outcome of another apparent corrupt part of Thailand we will be having a coup. If the judiciary collapses, Dems cant win an election, nature takes its course etc. the date is most possibly already pencilled in and army leave is cancelled. Its almost as if the opposition is orchestrating the imminent coup.. do they know something we dont.. is the army truly divided... Scary thought that last one if you realise the implications

When a Thai friend tells me its okay to go thru a red bcos there is two reds... red when it first changes (thats ok to go thru) and 'blood red' which is the red that appears about 4 secs after red first shows (you cant go thru that unless your a bus) what hope is there for anybody to complain and correct the p1ss poor attitude adopted by most Thais. Ever wondered why traffic is slow to pull away when it goes green, sh1t scared of whats coming the other way. Anyway a red light here is merely a suggestion.

When I stop at a red pedestrian crossing, near a school, at 07.00 in the morning cars honk me to go and when I dont they go around me across the crossing thru the red looking at me like I am stupid.. They will try to go on red even if there is kids crossing the road on the crossing. On the same road today a driver nearly t boned me coming from a junction as I stopped quick opposite him I f..ked him farang style. He had then lost face so further down the road he went under me a great speed pulled in and then indicated to turn right. I just LMFAO with the window open and that wound him up even more. They really never mature mentally beyond the age of 12, live with little or no responsibility for their actions. Take my advice, drive with something under the seat if you are going to demonstrate your anger that they drive like mongs. I have covered over 250,000 kms in Thailand and wherever you go they have the same trait, mindless morons behind the wheel. Please feel free to defend them, how I dont know (after education driving is my favourite subject ,rant finished please carry on with sensible discussion now)

I Certainly hope the dodgy construction company and the RED Shirt criminals can be made accountable for these unfortunate alas additional victims.

What did the red shirts have to do with it?

Even though they burnt the place down, they can't be held responsible for shoddy construction methods.

Sorry Army burnt the thing down. It was in desperate need of refurb and the owners are very pally with the army. Was only recently that the owners bought some old army barracks in the city centre. Please broaden your horizons and dont believe what any media tell you here.

Cost cutting???? I Certainly hope the dodgy construction company and the RED Shirt criminals can be made accountable for these unfortunate alas additional victims.

It was Taksin who undid the bolts. Jog on

It's good to see the government making an example of poor people who steal. It won't be tolerated.

The sooner people realise that only politicians and police are allowed to steal the better.

The courts are not the government...

Are you on the spliffs ???????

Seh Daeng = fall guy. Now, I think I know who had Seh Daeng shot dead.

yes I do too.. Was it Gen. P

Just another proof that there is no rule of law in Thailand .

I think you confuse 'rule of law' with 'respect for the law'.

And there is no respect for the law either especially when all politicians are above it.