zydeco

Why don't they simply stop all travellers from the infected countries such as West Africa from entering the country.

And for the answer to that, there is no good answer. For example, we hear, if we stop people from going out of those countries, nobody can go in to help. ( Bizarre.) Or, people will cross the border into neighboring countries and come that way. (Not without a visa, they won't.) Or their economies will collapse. (Most don't have an economy now, anyway.) No, there is an agenda at work, here. Partly, it's blackmail. Governmental leaders worldwide are holding a gun to the head of the people in their countries, insisting they pay for West Africa or die.

BTW, were Ebola to hit Thailand, I don't think holding up in your house is going to work. You'll still need to do your 90 day at immigration. Wanna bet?

surely this is scandalous? How long are the American citizens going to keep tolerating this kind of misinformation from this administration?

*OBAMA REITERATES CHANCE OF EBOLA OUTBREAK IN U.S. EXTREMELY LOW

versus

"The nightmare scenario, I think, is right around the corner." Marine Corps Gen. John F. Kelly, center, commander of U.S. Southern Command

http://news.usni.org/2014/10/07/southcom-commander-ebola-outbreak-central-america-haiti-nightmare-scenario

Do you even bother to read what you cite. For this one, you needed only read the headline to understand the General was talking about outbreak potential in Africa and Central America and never contradicted what Obama said about risk of outbreak in America being extremely low.

You do realize that when one says "Central America" they are not referring to Kansas, Dorothy or Toto. They are generally referring to areas between Mexico and South America.

I dislike Obama.. The news, media and politicians tell us daily that Obama is untrustworthy so you don' have to intentionally misquote articles to convince Americans to be skeptical regarding Obama statements.

Your level of dishonest surpasses that of Obama who at times simply seems indecessive, scared to act or do the wrong thing.

Actually, I can see the connection. Obama insists the chances of an ebola outbreak are low. At the same time, he has left the southern border not only virtually wide open. But we now take in people who walk up and claim to be unescorted minors. I can easily see a wave of central and south americans streaming across the border like army ants, with many infected among them.

You do know that Africa and South America are different places don't you?

As has been explained before -- oh, forget it; it's just not worth going into this again. After you've caught up with this story, then maybe you should come back to this thread.

It really won't do much good for just the U.S. to adopt such restrictions alone. If Ebola infiltrates and overwhelms the rest of Africa as it has West Africa, it will spread to Europe and the ME as well. After that, just a matter of time until it overcomes Asia, and eventually Central & South America. Once there, it storms across the border into the U.S.; both those running from it, and those with it hoping for medical salvation in the U.S.

Travel bans SHOULD be in place prohibiting travel to & from the affected countries except for medical aid workers and perhaps military personnel, and NOW, but that'll only provide some badly needed breathing room. The rest of the world needs to be pouring resources into W. Africa to stop Ebola THERE. Worry about whatever economic damage that does later. I read a post somewhere here at TV from someone claiming to have a lot of experience with the WHO and I think NGOs who subsist on government subsidies and aid. He was saying that this was all just a big show to pick the pockets of national governments. He couldn't have been more wrong or his thoughts more dangerous or irresponsible. I'm convinced what's going on in W. Africa is REAL, is growing, and won't remain confined to those current national borders if allowed to spin further out of control.

Closer to home, this Frieden clown needs to go, and though I have no idea how to make it happen, the prez needs to be prodded into finally starting to act like a leader. (Yeah, all crap aside, he DOES have something to do with it!)

I think heavy restriction of travel Visas to come to the USA is the best answer - easier to implement - no visa - no come to America... Duncan came by way of Brussels...Heavily controlling the issuance of Visas stops people from taking a route through the EU to get to America. I think a total moratorium on issuing visas to residents of the Ebola Stricken West African countries is called for.. .

It seems that flight restrictions WITHIN the USA are about to happen. American citizens involved with treating Ebola cases are going to be put on the No Fly List. They probably should be. But we now have the absurd situation where American citizens will be banned from flying within the US but people in Ebola ravaged West Africa will continue to get tourist visas and sail on through.

With the idiots in charge right now it might be time to begin worrying. Might have to reclassify the United States as a 3rd world country based on their ability to manage outbreaks of disease. Which means if they eventually close borders to ebola countries, the US would have to be included - since my confidence in the US being able to implement proper protocols is rapidly evaporating....

And, then, Obama's work would be done.

So where are Obama and the director of the CDC who promised this would be contained and there would be no outbreak? Now they can't even contain it inside a hospital for 2 employees?

At the recently concluded press conference the CDC was no where in sight. Only Clay "Howdy Doody" Jenkins and Mike "Carpetbagger" Rawlings. Things don't seem to be getting "stopped in their tracks" so far. It's pretty clear that the head of the CDC is a nitwit.

So much for dismissing those people questioning the competence of the CDC as "fear mongers." Thanks Tom "Stop Ebola in its Tracks" Frieden for the latest infection, the millions of taxpayer dollars this is costing, and the possibility of more deaths. All because the US embassy in Liberia issued a tourist visa to a man with no job who planned to overstay, not go home, and ended up causing a catastrophe.

Below is a link to a T.V. interview done yesterday I think - with the CDC Director .. anyone can listen to his words and draw your own conclusions ... personally I think much of what he says is talking points double speak...

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3839649788001/cdc-director-our-information-is-clear-and-correct/#sp=show-clips

Note: I scanned to see if this link had been posted before ... didn't see it ... so I post now.

my conclusions are what a load of baloney from this guy

Dr T. Friedman “ You know, charter flights don't do the same thing as commercial airlines do “

Megan Kelly “ what do you mean - they fly in they fly out ? “

Frieden is simply nuts. "The more you put on, the bigger the risk."

Confusing. European countries will hold massive protests and pass emergency legislation against GMOs. But quarantining a deadly virus that currently kills 7 out of every 10 infected is "hysteria."

Maybe a variation on what Bhutan already does? Limit numbers. Institute daily visa fees of around $300, with a two week minimum stay.

It's an unfortunate side effect of casting your vote that you can rarely predict the degree of common sense that the successful party's MPs will bring to government; though you can predict it will severely disappoint.

Apart from being slow to react, Ebola having had weeks to reach British shores, the government now decides on screening while admitting that indirect routes will pose a problem.

What the government should have done, and should do, is to impose a total ban on visitors from those countries most at risk from the disease. Presumably the indirect routes are all legal, so ignoring the possibility of illegal entrants, all potential entry points should then be subject to tight supervision and controls, a process that might well involve less manpower than that required for avoidable screening.

Isn't it amazing that Western Countries could learn how to handle incoming Visa Entrants from Thailand? What an irony ...

And visa overstays as well! Unless the UK and US stiffen their resolve, either this disease or the next one is going to take them under. I've read of the Africans just on the other end of the chunnel waiting for the chance to win the British refugee lottery. And I wonder how many problems the UK has with visa overstays, which form the largest number of illegal aliens in the US. Stop the visas and much of this problem will disappear. No need for this silly waste of time at Heathrow.

To the OP:

You are right to rant, to rid yourself of the bad feeling. Yet you'd be even more right to accept the world the way it is, then there would be no need to rant.

I think the point of the OP was for anti-Thai ranters to accept the world of Thailand for what it is, instead of blast off on every tiny speck of Thai culture that does not match what goes on back in the UK.

Personally, I'm not going anywhere near a Thai or other countries' hospital that is taking care of ebola patients. And I bet if one of the top level private Thai hospitals ever takes in an ebola patient, the entire complex will empty in a couple of hours.

Yes, over-react. Why not? I would rather over respond than under respond. Especially with politically appointed medical experts claiming someone made a mistake after yet another one of their assurances goes awry. So . . . now the CDC is going to review their protocols. And what happens when the next nurse mistakenly misses page 545 and protocol number 10,000 and gets infected? Breach! Breach! Yes, a breach of protocol! NASA didn't have these many protocols to go to the moon. They will inherently fail.

What wouldn't fail is keeping West Africans out of the US. Or at least it would drastically reduce the chance of failure. What is it that is so important about West Africa and West Africans that the US cannot afford to keep them outside our borders until this ebola crisis is over?

Nowhere in West Africa qualifies as stable. As far as containers go, there is nothing from West Africa that is so desperately needed in either Europe or America that a three week quarantine at sea will not solve. By then, any ebola outbreak on board will have taken care of itself.

What about the other airports in Africa. Do you advocate blocking traffic from all of them?

And what about people flying to other hubs from Africa.

Do you advocate blocking traffic from all of them as well?

May as well just advocate blocking all international air passenger traffic into America.

Good luck with that.

I really don't understand your difficulty with this proposal. Almost every nation's (perhaps every nation's) citizens in Africa require a visa to enter the US. Perhaps the entry to the UK is more porous for Africans. If they don't have visa, however, it doesn't matter where they board an airplane, they are not allowed entry. If African countries refuse to follow proper visa procedures, then you do prohibit them from flying to the UK, the US, or anywhere else. Similarly, if they descend into widespread chaos, you don't allow their planes to fly into American, European, or Asian air space.

If you try isolating the three current "hot" countries, it will never work.

People will panic and flee into other countries, and probably onwards from there.

I'm guessing that infected Africans can infect white people. Oh hang on, they already have.

Better to do what they are doing now, throw resources at the infected areas and quash the outbreak.

This disease is not massively infectious, and it is not airborne like SARS, Swine Flu, etc.

But what you don't want is it spreading into neighbouring countries where they are not having resources thrown at them. Then you end up with multiple outbreaks.

And that snowballs.

My only complaint is that they did not throw resources at this sooner. Either they expected MSF, etc. and the nations affected to deal with it, or the whole thing was massively understated.

The incident at Logan sums it up. What happens when multiple planes arrive with multiple people from multiple flights showing flu symptoms? Close the airport? Flu season is upon us after all.

It might get quite ridiculous. Or nothing might happen and then, worse, it might get lax.

I believe the priority should be detection and treatment - there has been little to worry about so far outside the affected countries.

The other priority should be a vaccine if one is possible.

Save the Outbreak hysterics until it's all out of control and the President sees it "all over the White House lawn".

Provide resources in the three ebola countries? Yes, absolutely. Spend until it hurts to get it under control. But quarantine as well. In fact, I believe the Liberian president has already enacted one, albeit the story today about Liberian medical workers going on strike for more pay tells me that country is on the road to disaster. The one thing I do think is that this so-called screening at Heathrow will achieve next to nothing except long lines and flight delays. And there is no real need for the airport to go through this, if visas and entries from ebola stricken countries are cancelled.

Nowhere in West Africa qualifies as stable. As far as containers go, there is nothing from West Africa that is so desperately needed in either Europe or America that a three week quarantine at sea will not solve. By then, any ebola outbreak on board will have taken care of itself.

What about the other airports in Africa. Do you advocate blocking traffic from all of them?

And what about people flying to other hubs from Africa.

Do you advocate blocking traffic from all of them as well?

May as well just advocate blocking all international air passenger traffic into America.

Good luck with that.

I really don't understand your difficulty with this proposal. Almost every nation's (perhaps every nation's) citizens in Africa require a visa to enter the US. Perhaps the entry to the UK is more porous for Africans. If they don't have visa, however, it doesn't matter where they board an airplane, they are not allowed entry. If African countries refuse to follow proper visa procedures, then you do prohibit them from flying to the UK, the US, or anywhere else. Similarly, if they descend into widespread chaos, you don't allow their planes to fly into American, European, or Asian air space.

I think I'll carry on listening to and reading qualified opinion on the current situation.

By all means continue to listen to your BBC TV doctor and disregard what agencies such as the CDC are now admitting to be a threat.

I never mentioned disregarding other agencies or just relying on what I see and hear on BBC which I was only reporting what was said in any event. By qualified opinion I meant not relying on unqualified opinion, like mine, on forums like this.

My apologies, then. I mistook the nature of your post.

Ebola Nurse Boyfriend Reportedly Admitted With Ebola Symptoms

An email sent out to the Alcon staff by its CEO reportedly said that the ebola nurse’s boyfriend was admitted into hospital with “Ebola-like symptoms.”

Gotnews.com has received word from two different Alcon employees, both of whom asked not to be identified.

Alcon’s U.S. headquarters are in Fort Worth, Texas. It is an opthomological pharmaceutical company.

Requests for comment from Alcon were not returned.

So, parents work at Alcon and so does Nina Pham's boyfriend.. He's now in quarantine

http://gotnews.com/ebola-nurse-boyfriend-reportedly-admitted-ebola-symptoms/

I cannot find a credible source to indicate a boyfriend has ebola symptoms. I would expect that if she had a boyfriend, he would be in quarantine (sex involves bodily fluids).

A person Khoi described as a friend of Pham’s is also being monitored for the disease, although he said he didn’t know the friend’s relationship. Others have said the patient being monitored is Pham’s boyfriend.

The corporate communications office at Alcon issued a release Monday saying that an Alcon associate had gone to Presbyterian on Sunday and was being monitored for signs and symptoms of Ebola. The release said the associate had been in contact with Pham. The associate hasn’t shown any symptoms of the disease, the release stated.

It's buried in this story from the Dallas Morning News http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro/20141013-dallas-nurse-in-good-spirits-gets-transfusion-from-ebola-survivor.ece

If I want to take a cat or a dog to the UK, it has to stay in quarantine for 6 months just in case it has rabies (even though it was vaccinated). It seems to me a quarantine for a super deadly contagious disease might be a good idea...

BTW, in Hong Kong they screen every passenger for fevers. No delays and no inconvenience other than you have to take off your hat

HK has more experience in things like this, and thus are not as complacent as the US is. HK was a hot-zone for SARS and of course an ongoing problem with outbreaks of bird flu from time to time.

As far as quarantining entire countries, it would be the equivalent of killing the rats during the plague. Illegal smuggling is a massive industry - drugs, weapons, people, whatever makes money..... if they have not been able to stop that industry .... how would they be able to control millions of fleeing terrified people after the complete collapse of countries in central africa. I always think it ironic that many of the same people that would argue legalizing drugs is the only way to go because you cannot stop it, but when they are scared they expect the government to do what they said they believe the government is unable to do.

All airports should be screening using thermal imaging for fevers. They should be placed on entrance through security, and they should be placed where people are entering through immigration. They should enact laws that forces the air industry to allow people to change their flights and not forfeit the price of the ticket.... it incentivizes people to lie. They have ignored it because most viruses that travel are no more than inconveniences.... but this is the perfect time to take stock and make those changes.

I don't claim medical expertise, but just how accurate is thermal imaging for fevers? Not only technically but what about the variance in people's "normal" temperatures. I know for example that my "normal" temp usually ranges anywhere from 96.9 to 97.6 Fahrenheit. If I get a temp of around 99, I KNOW I'm running a low grade fever, although a hospital nurse, not to mention an airport screener, would dismiss it as normal and within range.

So not only is it quite possible, it is highly likely to go airborne if not already. Because we are seeing evidence of people now contacting it after not having ANY direct skin to skin contact.... So the only way they could have become infected is if they breathed it in, and yes..... It can get in through the upper lung.

"Highly likely" is a joke. Your entire post is suppositional hysteria. The Texas nurse admitted to rubbing her face with her dirty gloved hand. Nobody is insisting that skin-to-skin contact is required, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to specifically mention skin-to-skin contact.

As I posted already, the best we can say about the 89 and 2012 incidents are that this or that might have happened. This was a lab setting, and the animals were available for testing afterwards. No airborne infectious agent was isolated as far as I know. If you've got a paper that says otherwise, cite it.

Can you supply a link to the story about the nurse rubbing her face with a dirty glove. I haven't seen it and I would like to read through it.

I think I'll carry on listening to and reading qualified opinion on the current situation.

By all means continue to listen to your BBC TV doctor and disregard what agencies such as the CDC are now admitting to be a threat.

The "screening" will not screen anyone non-symptomatic, as was Ebola Man in Dallas. He would have gone through any screening without delay. What is needed is to deny visas for anyone from West Africa. THAT would be effective, cost little, and certainly save lives. But it would also be discriminatory, and, of course, as we all see, now, it is better in the Western world to have your hospitals, cities, and very lives disrupted and destroyed rather than discriminate against sainted West Africans.

Better to have them in the open where you can screen them and treat them, rather than have them infecting their way across the world trying to get into a container from Calais or boat across the Rio Grande.

If you start blocking them from travelling, you will create panic in those countries, and people will start running for the borders. It is nothing more than a thoughtless, knee-jerk reaction.

Better to manage it and not destabilise the hot zone.

Nowhere in West Africa qualifies as stable. As far as containers go, there is nothing from West Africa that is so desperately needed in either Europe or America that a three week quarantine at sea will not solve. By then, any ebola outbreak on board will have taken care of itself.

Ebola is not an airborne transmitted disease. It is transmitted by the exchange of body fluids. So unless you come in from an Ebola infected country or come into physical contact with and exchange bodily fluids with an infected person you are not at risk. So said the doctor I was just watching here in UK on BBC Breakfast TV as Heathrow Airport prepares for Ebola screening. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29605988 Government says there are Contingency Plans for extending screening to Birmingham and Manchester if necessary.

Well - I hope the U.K. gets a handle on things - few others are...

Also, Airborne is a definition reserved for a particle containing a load of viruses that is small enough and light enough to float in the air.

On the other hand - spittle or just spit/saliva can be expelled as micro droplets when someone talks to you at close range... airline seat for instance. Also if an Ebola patient coughs or sneezes for any reason as humans do from time to time... then any micro droplets or nasal secretions, or micro globlets of phlegm can be expelled onto another person or object another person touches. Fomits are such objects and dried secretions can be infectious for several hours - commode handles, faucet handles, door handles... Plus if a patient behaves as Mr. Duncan did - that patient can go though a period of projectile vomiting and uncontrolled liquid diarrhea - contaminating entire restrooms, seat covers, commode seats, flush handles... If the patient has had this happen and does not clean up well - or perhaps even if they do... infectious virus loads are everywhere... Thus the reason a suspected Ebola patient must isolated and the area he/she was occupying decontaminated as quickly and as thoroughly as possible. And better yet - kept in West Africa.

"On the other hand - spittle or just spit/saliva can be expelled as micro droplets when someone talks to you at close range... airline seat for instance. Also if an Ebola patient coughs or sneezes for any reason as humans do from time to time... ."

- the doctor dismissed that as a risk but then again she's only a doctor!

Then, again, she was wrong. http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro/20141012-research-doesnt-rule-out-transmission-by-floating-droplets.ece

You will have to have the countries involved police their own borders. They might not be willing to do that. Some of those countries are already coping with big problems. They not be able to or willing to quarantine people inside those countries.

I'll bet that their neighbors will be all too willing to police the common borders with ebola countries. If not, they will become an ebola country themself.

The problem isn't people who are from West Africa; the problem is people who have been to West Africa. Simply denying visas will not necessarily be an effective method of controlling the situation.

It certainly would have meant that the ebola cases in Dallas would not have happened. "Screening" and questionnaires are about as ineffective as things can get. Stop it at the source. Quarantine.