Caspersfriend

A denial of entry to the country cannot be done by the officer at the desk. It has to be signed off on by an officer authorized to do it. Their are procedures that have to be followed and that includes the person being denied entry signing a form. An appeal can also be made for the denial that has to be resolved within 7 days (that is 7 days in detention) for a fee of 1900 baht.

Not sure about the photo problem. I have used some with a blue background and others that were white or off white.

I cannot see how a exchange rate fluctuation could effect an application using the money in the bank option. The 800k or 400k baht balance would remain at the same amount. It could be a problem if the combination method was used and the local immigration office insisted on the 3 month seasoning.

The officer might say no at the desk but if you feel he is wrong you always have the right to ask for a supervisor to confirm it.

I agree that an officer at border control cannot deny entry without authorisation from a senior officer; they can however sanction entry for all others. The salient point being that an officer in a local office has to refer every single application for a visa extension to a senior officer; not just those they consider to be problematic.

The "photo problem" may be merely a Chiang Mai issue http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/861438-immigration-promenada-one-stop-service-v2/

Exchange rate fluctuations can and do cause problems for some who are unable or unwilling to leave more than is required sitting in the bank. As money in an FCD account is also eligible exchange rates come into play. The friend I mentioned was sailing close to the wind but the day before and a few days after he would have met the required amount, and it was unnecessary [in my opinion] to be pedantic on such a trivial variance when the required amount was met throughout the seasoning period [apart from a couple of days] and he had conformed in all other aspects. Yes I know - rules are rules.

Are you aware of any case where an applicant for a visa extension has had a denial overturned by a senior officer? With I/O's appearing to have considerable leeway on their personal interpretation of the rules I would be pleased to hear that this might happen occasionally.

Quite possibly I do not understand the way in which the RTP Immigration branch deal with immigration - maybe those who are better acquainted would be willing to enlighten me :

Whenever or wherever somebody arrives in Thailand they must pass through Immigration Control. The I/O's manning the desks do not appear to be high ranking officers and yet they are empowered to decide who comes in and who does not. They do not then pass the passports of those they approve to a senior officer for double-checking and we could easily imagine the mayhem that would ensue if this were the case.

Deciding who enters the country would appear to be a far more significant decision than those who stay here; much better equipped to weed out the undesirables/those with dodgy passports/those who are black-listed/those who are on the wanted list of another country. These I/O's are empowered and their decision is final. If the person denied is unhappy with the outcome then, and only then, is a higher authority brought into the process.

I am referring mostly to Chiang Mai area; as that is my experience: With the greatest respect to those who process visa extensions, the fact that someone's application for extension doesn't have the right colour background on the photo, or is 2000 Baht short on the money in the bank during the seasoning period [yes this happened to a good friend due to ever-fluctuating exchange rates] is insignificant if the safety of the country is the real motive. And yet the decisions of the I/O's who process applications apparently must be double-checked by a senior officer.

There's no reason, for example, that one Immigration officer can't handle 5-6 annual visa extensions an hour.

In theory yes, but in practicability no. The biggest drawbacks are the people that turn up at immigration with inadequate documents and paperwork or discrepancies in their paperwork, uncompleted paperwork or don`t qualify for a retirement visa/extension testing their luck.. They are people that are gumming up the works. 1 person not showing immigration what they want to see can take twice or three times the amount of time to process, even longer.

Whenever or wherever somebody arrives in Thailand they must pass through Immigration Control. The I/O's manning the desks are not high ranking officers and yet they are empowered to decide who comes in and who does not. They do not then pass the passports of those they approve to a senior officer for double-checking [to sit in a pile until said senior officer is available to sanction their decision, nor are they sent to another office if a senior officer is not available on site] just imagine the mayhem that would ensue if that were the case.

Deciding who enters the country is a far more significant decision than who stays here; much more likely to weed out the undesirables/those with dodgy passports/those who are black-listed/those who are on the wanted list of another country. These I/O's are empowered and their decision is final. If the person denied is unhappy with the outcome then, and only then, is a higher authority brought into the process.

With the greatest respect to those who process visa extensions, the fact that someone's application for extension doesn't have the right colour background on the photo, or is 2000 Baht short on the money in the bank during the seasoning period [yes this happened to a good friend due to ever-fluctuating exchange rates] is insignificant if the safety of the country is the real motive. And yet these decisions apparently must be double-checked by a senior officer.

I for one am not a circus animal and have never had the inclination [nor lately the ability] to jump through hoops. However, if things do not improve the next time my extension comes around ..................

Most who decide to go back to the UK for NHS treatment have very significant, if not major, health issues. In some areas the NHS has improved [a bit] in recent years in the time period it takes to get seen by a specialist and scheduled for treatment; surgery being the most likely common reason for going to the trouble and expense of a trip back. However, and assuming it's not an A&E problem. I doubt there are many [if any] health authority areas in the UK where you can get an operation within a trip back home to see the family. By the time you have seen a GP, been referred to a specialist, seen the specialist, been scheduled for treatment and arrived in hospital for that treatment to be carried out, you will likely have exceeded the period required to prove residency. Just sayin'

An emotive topic always brings about much huffing and puffing; even from those who are unaffected

(informal) to complain noisily about something but not be able to do anything about it

For those who fancy a nostalgic reflection of the birth of the Welfare State and the NHS

http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/nhs/5139.shtml

Who are 'Coconuts Bangkok' and where are they based?

With 'surveillance' at heightened levels 'Coconuts Bangkok' is treading a tenuous line..

Good to see there are some signs of problems being addressed.

Having a senior person permanently at Prom to sign-off would be an improvement. But, there is always a but, the day I went back in August there was a such a person on site; don't know about the morning but certainly the whole afternoon while I was there. I had the first afternoon appointment but still had to wait nearly two hours after for my passport to be returned. The senior person appeared considerably underemployed [possibly why they don't have one full time] and yet they still let the processed retirements build up into a stack before signing them off in one go. It's that sort of attitude that does get some 'customers' frustrated to the extent that they speak out. As the description implies - One Stop Service

The uni girls at the front are there to give information, not check paperwork, and shouldn't be given such a responsibility anyway. If funds are really such a problem [?] then upping the visa extension fee by just 100 Baht would enable some trained checkers to be incorporated in the system. Not 3000 Baht upwards for a visa agent to do it; 90% of the time I suggest it's all very straightforward clerical work and would speed up the ability of I/O's to process more in a day with less frustration.

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I have a large Koi pond [50000 litres but proper fish pond as not interested in crystal clear water for specimen fish] and have included two shallow aquaponic ponds in the circuit before the main mechanical/bio filtration.

As a start-up I am just using them to grow a salad bar for the Koi; duckweed and the like. The intention is to grow tomatoes/peppers and whatever else will be happy here in a hydroponic+ environment in northern Thailand.

Anyone any experience to pass on?

If you are infirm, live a long way from Immigration and want to be sure it's all done in one day, or simply wish to avoid the bother of visiting Immigration [even if they offered a 10/10 service], then using a visa agent provides a solution; at a price.

Using them for reasons of not wanting to attend in the hours of darkness to ensure you get seen that day, or simply avoiding the vagaries of never being 100% sure how you will be treated or what will be required of you, is understandable but may also be instrumental in these problems continuing. Treating the symptoms and not the cause rarely gets the best result. Two painkillers might temporarily remove a pain but if the pain is a symptom of something that needs attention it will be back and you will need to take the medicine again. Same with any bad service. The attempts being made by some [such as Nancy] are seeking to address the cause and that is [in the opinion of the many] that Chiang Mai Immigration [for whatever reason or reasons] are not providing the level of service that their 'customers' should reasonably expect to receive; and according to reports is being provided in other regions.

Who owns the agents, what connections they might have, and whether there is some kind of conspiracy going on is really quite irrelevant. If the 'One Stop Service' provides just that then the only people who will want to use them are those in the first sentence. There should not be a need to use them. Maybe the Thailand Immigration Bureau should consider formally outsourcing the evaluation and processing of visa extensions and the like to the private sector. As it does appear to be a waste of time for I/O's to be dealing with simple clerical matters, that can become frustrating for both sides of the desk when language/knowledge of requirements/preparation of documentation gets in the way. All they would then need is to double check and sign off. Makes sense to me but then I have always been a bit of a dreamer.

A friend was at Imm. Prom. today and reports that they distributed 29 queue tickets for retirement extensions. Everyone who was in the queue by 8:30 am and had their documents in order got a ticket. Some were turned away, but he didn't really hear why for many. One lady had her bank book, but no letter from the bank so she said she'd come back tomorrow with the letter. Another guy had a new passport but hadn't transferred his visa and extension from his old passport to his new passport. This is something that is suppose to be done at the old office, but he was directed toward the G4T lady operating out of the unmarked table and told she could help him for 3000 baht. It's not known if that price also includes the retirement extension he wanted. Otherwise, my friend couldn't hear why the few others were turned away, but they didn't seem angry.

Some people waiting in the queue told him that they are passing out 32 tickets now, although they didn't know where that information came from. They said from others waiting ahead of them. Maybe that's how many were distributed on a previous day.

This does seem to be a positive development. It would be nice if they have a supervisor on-site so that everyone didn't have to wait all day for approval of their application after the Imm. officer sees them.

Everything [well maybe not everything] comes to those who wait. Applying gentle pressure as those few like you are doing is the way forward; thanks for that. As I suggested in a previous post, I doubt that the staff at Immigration are personally looking to screw 'us'. They are simply doing their job in the way they are instructed - or if not instructed in the way they understand they should be doing it. Where 'we' come from there is generally a chain of command/management and those sitting across the desk simply do what they are instructed to do. Here in Thailand [according to our perspective] this chain may appear broken or missing a few links. Those who understand this generally have a lower stress level.

If the online appointment system had clearly stated that it was only for certain categories [visa extensions - if that was the intention] with a drop-down menu that only included those categories it would probably have been more successful. One stage further, but still within reasonably-expected competence, would be to require a passport number in order to prevent those who made one. two [or more!] bookings; just in case the appointment became inconvenient In the early days it was easy to make an appointment and my first two were made well after the sun had risen - before the facility crumbled in a heap midnight plus a few seconds would often be too late!

"A civil servant or public servant is a person in the public sector employed for a government department or agency. The extent of civil servants of a state as part of the "civil service" varies from country to country."

Throughout my 'previous' life, and also during the years I have lived here in Thailand, I have always been respectful and courteous to those who sit across the desk when I am requested to comply with legislation. In doing so [and recognising that those on the other side of the desk were generally just 'doing their job'] nine times out of ten in my home country those experiences were light-hearted as there was no barrier put up by either side. The one out of ten was the minority and the next time you saw them they would likely be in the nine. It has taken me a few years to adjust; but here in Thailand we are sitting across a desk to those whose upbringing and life experience is very different. Perhaps the majority of those who wear a uniform and/or sit behind a desk here do not consider themselves to be the servant of anyone; be they Thai or 'alien'. Always best to keep that possibility in mind.

Expressing our opinions on forums such as this is extremely unlikely to change anything much. However expressing those opinions here [even though that's not behind closed doors] is better than confrontation of those at Immigration who [to their mind] are just doing their job. I very much doubt any of those behind the desks we sit across come to work thinking "how best can I screw up the lives of some aliens today" -- maybe one in ten

I got a dude that did not even look up when handed the docs. I said good morning to him, no reply, no eye contact... checked everything then motioned me to move to the camera seat. .... strange.

Sounds like the guy I got. Guess he missed the attitude adjustment training camp.

We are only getting a part of the story here. At the old premises when every one went there they had two officers and were still sending people home. There they had about 50 a day. What is happening there. Out of that 50 10 were by an on line appointment system 1 out of 5 is not what a call a good system. In other words the main change has been some are here and some are there and some are still being told to go home and come back tomorrow. They had 2 officers there now they have one at each place. Not really a lot of difference.

Also how many are being processed by the Japanese community. Now that I think about it I can not recall a Japanese in the line. I am sure there were but apparently a lot of them banded together some how and paid a little bit extra to circumvent the long waiting lines. Hopefully Nancy is on top of that. From what I heard it was a success the one time she was allowed to do it.

Not meaning to correct your statement northernjohn but just adding to the information bank something I have not seen mentioned in the thread.

When I attended my online appointment at the airport in 2013 and 2014 there were two officers processing 'day tickets' for retirement in the main office but the online appointments were processed by a third officer in the rear office. One time I was processed by a uniformed officer the other not uniformed. So at those two times they actually had three doing retirements and they kept online and daily tickets separate. This year at Promenada when I attended in September there was just the one [guy I hadn't seen before and very rude] and when I was called in the guy who had the next queue number actually came to challenge me at the desk as he thought I was cutting in and he had been waiting for hours. The officer very curtly demanded that he go outside and wait until called. As a side issue: the counter-signing officer was at his desk doing very little but they still made everybody wait a long time for their passports; he only started to look at them when he had a stack. I am glad to hear it seems to have improved a little but the attitude then was appalling and very disrespectful.

Having lived here for almost a decade there is little that shocks or even surprises me. And yet I am occasionally disappointed .....................

Mostly by some of the posts on this site from those who are obviously unwilling or unable to adjust to the country they chose [?] to live in.

Living here is [relatively] easy and [relatively] cheaper than the countries we were previously living in. Many of us have additional reasons for coming here and few have devious motives nor wish to buck the system. Fit in as best you can a follow the rules as best you can.

Those who commit their time and make an effort to assist us in doing that are few and far between. Which is why I am sometimes astounded by the negative comments that are made about NancyL and the efforts she makes. I don't know her personally but she should be appreciated and applauded for what she does in attempting to be a reliable conduit between 'them' and 'us' Not that I personally see the situation as them and us. I doubt very much that there is a Monday morning meeting at CM Immigration where they discuss how best they can inconvenience/screw those who come to their premises simply to abide by the laws of the land.

Give NancyL a break and appreciate that someone is actually batting on your side.

I sent mine ems out, and registered post for return, 3 day turn round 55 baht money well spent.

Same here: In and out of airport immigration within 36 hours and confirmation back with me today.

Attending at Promenada to do your 90-day in person is a spin of the wheel.

Reporting online also appears to be fickle.

I have reported many times by mail and so have many friends, and as of yet every one has been successful; when they do registered tracking both ways. For the miserly additional cost I fail to understand those who send it registered but just stick a 3Baht stamp on the return.

Tracking there ensures that you can prove Immigration received it.

Tracking for the return ensures that you know whether they sent a confirmation.

Where else would that 30-ish Baht be better spent?

For those living here, I am guessing that not being able to speak the language probably makes many feel isolated after the initial holiday rush wears off

Learn to speak it, then.

I don't disagree. Probably factors heavily into one's disillusionment with their situation. Probably a bridge too far for most though.

No amount of speaking Thai is going to make you think Thai, and god forbid if you ever do, you would have just successfully dumbed yourself down to believing in things like "Face" (Dublicity) Ghost (Superstition) Status (Prejudice) and god knows how many other qualities we spent centuries educating ourselves out of in the west. (For better or worse).

Two close friends consider that they speak fluent Thai; whatever that is. They both have good personalities and Thais chat to them as if they understand every word. Generally at a party where they are doing the catering. In private my wife tells me that their Thai language skills are mediocre and their jokes are not understood. Most Thais who come from a different province hardly understand a word they say. An American friend has a Masters in linguistics and is translating for hill tribe communities, however when she had a water leak at her house she was unable to tell the plumber what the problem was. Fluency should mean you are able to communicate effectively - I can often do better with 'international' sign language!

As many others have done I paid 100% of the purchase price of some land on which I had a house built. In accordance with the law on ownership this land is registered n the name of a Thai. Said person also had to obtain a blue book and their name is there as the head of the house.

I have been advised by a Thai barrister that a foreigner can indeed own a house they have built on land even though they aren't registered as the owner of that land; even that barrister could not direct me to anywhere 'official' that this could be verified. The building permit is in my name, the electricity supply is in my name and I also have a yellow book for that house.

As with so many laws/rules/regulations here the situation is murky, and that's before those who sit behind counters and desks apply their own interpretation!

Am I a house owner - house master - house possessor - as far as the TM30 obligation is concerned? Or when living in the house I paid for and with a yellow book in my name [where I am obliged to advise of any change of address] and with a retirement extension and submitting 90-day reports [where I am also obliged to advise any change of address] do I need to be reported as living in my own house?

I suggest that there are many of us in this position and would really appreciate comments only from those who have specific knowledge.

2/10 - see me after school for attitude adjustment!

Back to basics: the original post included the quote 'the Immigration Bureau’s “Good Guys In, Bad Guys Out” operation'

When are we likely to see legislation to encourage the "good guys in" aspect of that?

From a quote in <link to Bangkok post removed>

What are the chances of those of us who are [or have every intention of being] the "good guys" seeing some evidence of being "in"?

Hopefully mentioned many times before.

The online appointment webpage never did make it clear what it was to be used for!

Much comment has been made about visa agents abusing the system, but from what I hear the bigger problem was from those using it for ineligible 90-day reports/re-entry permits and such.

Before you go try the online application first. If this fails you can mail it in. If you're a masochist you may still go to Promenada in person.

The movie Dumb and Dumber comes to mind. I just received my 90 days back in the mail today and here is the following results.

I did my last 90 days by mail and well its a disaster. The sheet they returned in the mail was not off of the bottom of the T47 that I mailed in. They sent me a me a multi entry visa with a length of stay till September 7th 2015 which is passed. Date of issue is October 7th 2014 which was last year. I do not want to make as the above poster states make the masochist trip to Promenada in person any ideas would be helpful and I would be grateful. Can I straighten this out in the mail?

Is the other side of the paper you received blank? They don't use the bottom of the T47 any more but print out the confirmation with a barcode on it. From what I have seen this is always using up the back side of those paper copies that we have previously submitted. If yours is blank on one side it looks like someone wasn't paying attention when printing your confirmation. You can try a phone call but highly likely that they will say you need to attend in person.

Immigration [in its variable by location entities] have understood for some time that aliens/foreigners play 'games' to conform with the rules in their location; whether the written rules are reasonable or correctly interpreted by their local office being an irrelevance. Arranged marriages appear to be of primary concern, and therefore a marriage extension has become more onerous. Next would obviously be those who choose the retirement extension where funds have been 'moved around' for many a year to meet the qualification. Why would Immigration not be looking to check this on whatever basis they feel fit? If you 'have all your ducks in a row' [ http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/get+ducks+in+a+row ] there should be nothing to worry about

'This lot' or 'that lot' the message is still the same; do what I/WE say and you will be better off.

"The feedback had been good, Thawat said, with little or no opposition."

Why would 'the opposition' be foolish enough to stick their head above the parapet at this time?