KhunHeineken

I get it, but what you don't accept, or understand, is when the proposed changes are passed, computers will do all the heavy lifting. What part of this don't you understand? Guys like me, who appear to be tax residents on a long holiday, will end up getting a non resident tax bill. Part pensioners will be the same on their supplement income. Aged pensioner will have a 32.5% reduction in their pension. There's no way the government will pay the full pension every fortnight, then chase the 32.5% on the 1st July every year. Like the supplements,the 32.5% will be withheld after 183 days. The immigration data base already talks to the Centerlink data base, and they will be set to talk to the ATO. It's not like the ATO have to employ another 500 staff for this. Some of your post is incorrect. I think what you mean is, currently, pensioners, part pensioners, and even self funded guys like me, have always declared ourselves as residents for taxation purposes, not non residents, as you have posted. This may have been a typo on your behalf, because if we did declare ourselves as non residents, we would have to pay non resident tax. How can you class yourself as a non resident to avoid non resident tax. The way to avoid non resident tax is to be a resident. Once again, maybe a typo on your behalf. Interesting comment about self assessment. Do you think we will all be able to "self assess" ourselves out of the immigration department knowing we have been outside of Australia for 183 days? Yes, we continue on as we have been, but the proposed changes are there for all to see, and in my opinion, it's only a matter of time before either political party passes them into law.

If you ad together the stamp duty to buy, the agent's fees to sell, the taxes and fees and maintenance for 2 years, then the loss of the earnings on the capital invested elsewhere, then the high cost of living, it may not be worth buying a property for the 2 years, not to mention the risk that the property market goes down, creating further losses.

Interesting comment. With so many links from credible sources, even government websites, the proposed changes seem pretty clear to me, and not really open to "opinion" or "interpretation." 183 days outside of Australia = non resident for taxation purposes. 45 days inside Australia and meeting two of the factor tests - resident for taxation purposes. That said, you are entitled to your opinion, and I have no problem discussing this serious issue with you. The people that want to be declared as a non resident are people working, or have sizeable investments in a low tax country, who neither derive or generate zero income in Australia. You are correct, why would any expat retiree who derives or generates an income in Australia declare themselves a non resident for tax purposes, or even tick the "Leaving Australia Permanently" box on the departure card? I have given a reason for why non residents have been able to get away with this for decades in a previous post, and it's exactly what the proposed changes are going to stop. I believe an aged pensioner who does not inform Centerlink they are going overseas, after 6 weeks, they stop some of the supplements. Can a pensioner conform this? If this is the case, the framework / infrastructure for the proposed changes to work the same way for the 32.5% withholding of the pension is already in place. You say it's just "Talk" but I have posted links to the current 90 year old tax residency laws. The pages and pages and pages of this legislation will be simplified with a physical presence and time based model. Basically, the legislation around residency for taxation purposes will eventually change, either under Labor, or the next Liberal government. I have posted links showing the pension is deemed an income. I have posted links showing pensions are taxable. I have posted links showing there is no tax free threshold for non residents. If you put these fact together with the proposed changes, things aren't looking good for continuing to pay no tax. What you need to understand is, the way we have ALL been getting away with it for decades will come to an end when these proposed changes are passed. As I have said, it's not a new tax. It's n existing tax that was too cumbersome for the ATO to collect because of so many loopholes, not to mention, how can the ATO prove my "intention: in a Court when my intentions are in my own head? All I have to say is I am on a long holiday, and have maintained a domicile back in Australia, and have every intention of returning to Australia to live. The proposed changes do away with this loophole and the government will simply declare you a non resident for tax purposes based on immigration department data. There will be no way to get around this, and that's why they designed it that way. See the quote in a recent post about how strictly they will be enforcing the days.

Correct. This goes to the very point of why the proposed changes were drafted. I'm not on an aged pension. I am self funded and never paid a cent of non resident tax for all the years I have been living in Thailand. The reason for this is, I maintain a "domicile" in Australia and the ATO can not prove I have no "intention" of ever returning to live in Australia. All I have to state is I am on a long holiday and have every "intention" of returning to Australia in the future. I have a few friends that have dodged non resident tax the same way. We have all been doing it for years. Sure, we pay resident tax, and get the tax free threshold, but the government is missing out on 32.5% from $0 from us. Why wouldn't they want to close that loophole? As I have said in the past, if / when the proposed changes close that loophole, pensioners very well may be collateral damage, unless the pension is exempt, or they add a tax free threshold to the non resident tax brackets. The proposed changes mention neither. I know I should be paying non resident tax, but use the "maintaining a domicile" to circumvent paying it. It stands to reason the government, of either political party, was one day going to give government agencies the ability to force people like me to pay non resident tax. The government went for the easiest enforcement route, a physical presence and time based model, 100% proven by immigration records, which can not be denied, or appealed. See the quote I posted in a recent post about how strictly they will enforce the "days."

Albo is coming under fire for basically doing nothing other than flying around the world. He's facing pressure in the media on the cost of living crisis. It's possible he'll splash some cash around and go easy on taxes. Hopefully the proposed changes will not make the next budget also.

Why don't you go on the ATO Community Forum and ask them? I would imagine Australia Tax Law would be documents piled high to the ceiling. I'm not here to research for you the exact clause / sub clause of the act. You can do that. Maybe you can be more specific as to what you do not accept. Is the Australian aged pension deemed an "income" - yes. (links provided previously) Is the Australian aged pension taxable - yes. (links provided previously) Do non resident tax brackets have a tax free threshold - no. (links provided previously) Do you accept the above as fact? If not, please provide some links. I have provided many links, some of them from government. It appears you are hoping that the Australia aged pension somehow enjoys the benefit of a tax free threshold whilst the recipient is a non resident for tax purposes. I can only go off the non resident tax brackets which show it's 32.5% tax from $0 to $120,000. This was confirmed by Blake from the ATO in the link, and also in many other links I have previously posted. All the links confirm Blake is correct. Is the guy in the youtube clip wrong as well? How is it all this information, from multiple and credible sources is wrong, but your "interpretation" is right? Once again, please post some links showing all of this is wrong.

I've posted the same links many times for the same questions, to the point my posts have been reported and removed for posting the same links several times. I'll occasionally post them again for a newbie, but you are not a newbie. If you look at a link I posted recently, the title is, " Modernizing the individual tax residency rules." It's well known that the current tax residency laws are 90 years old. Ease of international travel, a growing global work force, skilled Australians in demand around the world, and the internet, now see these laws largely unfit for purpose, thus, they may / will change to a physical presence and time based model. I see you have made some other posts, so I will address the above in those posts.

I don't know. If it was announced, I would have posted it. In my opinion, and I'll say that again, in my opinion, Aussie expats dodged a bullet in last year's May budget. Not so sure if we will be that lucky in this year's May budget which is set for the 14th May. I have previously posted a link where the Assistant Treasurer for the current Labor government said the proposed changes were in the governments "in tray" and they were looking at tweaking the 45 days, so clearly they have no intention of binning them.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Life-Arts/Life/Mon-forge-their-own-path-in-Myanmar-s-civil-war https://news.sky.com/story/myanmars-civil-war-has-taken-dramatic-turn-and-never-has-the-ruling-military-looked-so-vulnerable-13030330 https://thediplomat.com/2023/12/is-myanmars-civil-war-pushing-the-country-toward-fragmentation/ https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/myanmar-civil-war-coup-opposition-resistance-ceasefire-4059991 https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/rohingya-crisis-myanmar https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/26/watch-bloody-civil-war-one-outcomes-facing-myanmar/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/21/myanmar-military-karen-knu-rebels/ Speaking of Google, the above are all from the front page of quick Google search. They all mention "Myanmar civil war." Must be "fake news." Maybe it's time to take a look over the next door's fence and see what's going on in their back yard.

Click on "Consultation paper." https://treasury.gov.au/consultation/c2023-205344#:~:text=This measure was announced by,be an Australian tax resident. The paper was drafted July 23 and open for submissions that closed in September 23. Here's just one of the clauses: "A strict day count ensures that residency outcomes are clear, the rules are administrable, and disputes are avoided. Allowing days to be excluded in certain circumstances may undermine these benefits." Once again, the "bright line test" of 183 days of physical presence, or, 45 days and meeting two of the factor tests. The factor tests are not difficult to meet, but as another member pointed out previously, it may be financially beneficial for some members to just pay the 32.5% non resident tax on their pension because it may end up cheaper then airfares, accommodation, and cost of living in Australia. The current Labor government are aware of the proposed changes and have not binned them, which tells me it's not if, but when they are legislated.

Again, the pension is deemed an income. The pension is taxable. There is no tax free threshold for non residents. Show me how these add up to pensioners don't have to pay non resident tax? Read the link again. Tell me, what question would you ask "Blake" from the ATO? What argument would you put to Blake from the ATO as to why your pension is exempt when he has already told "Bob" he has to pay non resident tax on his pension if living overseas. I have posted a link where the exact point of debate on this thread has been put to a member of the ATO who has replied pensioner living overseas are liable for non resident tax. The link is not my opinion, or my interpretation. Why don't you comment on this guy's channel and tell him he's wrong also? Too funny. How many times do I, and other members, have to tell you a pension is deemed to be an income, and is taxable. If you insist a pension is neither, please post a link.

I would say, did you read the link? It comes from the ATO community website. A member of staff answered an inquiry about this very point, yet, you chose to ignore in the hope that if you post your interpretation, the law and the fact will become untrue. It's laughable. Let's not talk about what you believe. Let's talk about Australian Tax Law. Put simply, a pension is deemed to be an income. A pension is taxable. There is no tax free threshold for non residents. If the proposed changes go through, you will be deemed to be a non resident after 183 days outside of Australia. Do you agree or disagree with this simple summary? No, the game changes once you are deemed to be a non resident. They haven't been able to implement the tax / withholding pension because of loopholes in 90 year old laws. Why do you think they proposed the changes?

Nothing mentioned in the proposed changes says it will be exempted, nor means / asset tested, nor a new tax free threshold added to non resident tax rates. If they wanted to give pensioners a free pass, I am sure these would have been mentioned, but they weren't. Read the link. https://community.ato.gov.au/s/question/a0J9s0000002ngF/p00172380 It's tax expat pensioners should have been paying for years, and the government is proposing legislation to be finally able to collect it. What part can't you understand about it?

Marry a Thai to avoid Thai taxation policy. Great advice.

Wrong. It's about one's residency status for taxation purposes, not the source of the income. And again, for those who try to use their own interpretation to wish it all away. https://community.ato.gov.au/s/question/a0J9s0000002ngF/p00172380 It's a tax that should have always been paid, but there were too many loopholes, thus, the government proposed to move from one's "intention" which is difficult to prove, to a time based criteria of physical presence. 183 days inside Australia - resident. 183 days outside Australia - non resident. How do you propose to get around this?

Research not your strong point.

If the proposed changes to residency tax law are passed in Australia, what tax you have to pay in Thailand will be the least of most people's worries. Tax is doom. There's no happy side to tax.

You are on a part pension. Do you have any advice for those on a full aged pension and living full time in Thailand? Those that are living fortnight to fortnight on their Aussie aged pension, or, are you going to say the aged pension is "savings?"

What about for non resident for taxation purposes? Did you research that, because that's what most Aussie expats are, non resident for taxation purposes.

Good to see you are doing something about it, and not just wishing / posting that the bad news will go away, just because it's bad news, See the words "income" and "savings?" Is an aged pension an income, yes. Is an aged pension earned from savings, no. You are the one banging on about marriage. Many people are not married. In any case, by your own admission, there will be tax to pay in Thailand, and that's all I have ever said. Please keep researching your own research to keep proving me correct.

Did you notice I said "taxed?" I didn't mention what amount. Your amount seems to conflict with other amounts posted on other threads, by other members, who have crunched some numbers. Thailand's tax is on remitted funds. They don't care about the source, or the source country. I suppose you are going to give me the "pensioners in Thailand will be up in arms about it" speech for a reason why Thailand will never do it, all the while while they are actually doing it.

Interesting times ahead in 2024. Australia may, or eventually want, their non resident tax, whilst Thailand is insisting on a resident tax. It does seem we are heading towards being double taxed for living in Thailand. An expat can escape Thailand's tax by having a holiday in a neighboring country for a week every 6 months, thus, always remaining under the 180 days, but escaping Australia's non resident tax may prove to be a lot more difficult.

Called out over what? It was a joke. Read it again, GOM. The TEAL's are doing well. They could create a movement. It would need a lot of financing. Whilst I may not agree with their policies, I would certainly consider giving them my protest vote. Now, what happened to Albo's caring and sharing government? In relation to resident / non resident / Thailand / Australia tax, I have said before the only way to dodge both taxes, would be to about 186 day in Australia, which would be less them 180 days in Thailand. If you have a look at the UK forum, you will see an interesting thread where their big banks are starting to squeeze non residents. I believe the UK also do not pass on CPI pension increases if you are outside of the UK, 2024 set to be an interesting year fr many retired non resident expats.

Wiki doesn't agree with you, nor do most governments around the world. he fantasy that this is no civil war in Myanmar is all in your own mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar_civil_war_(2021–present)

I see you are even quoting yourself these days. You are probably the only person that reads your own posts.