KhunHeineken

The Ostrich Syndrome is similar to the My girl is different syndrome. People need to believe that they are still an Australian resident for taxation purposes, despite living in Thailand for years. They really need to think they are "different" to Paul Hogan.

Yes Indeed - that definitely applies to many older blokes. Now kh.heiniken is a psychologist as well as an economist and more... But I still have him on ignore. Yet, you persist with personally attacking me, despite ignoring me. Perhaps some dementia setting in. You forgot that you ignored me.

With only 28 million people, yeah, right. Have you forgotten about Australia's rapidly shrinking manufacturing industry? You have no idea. PwC got in the sh*t because they were "consulted" by the government on tax matters, and then gave their own clients inside information on what the government was planning in relation to tax, so their clients could either maximize profits, or minimize their tax position.

Why not include those on part pensions also?

Troll. (not reported)

There's a lot of psychology around it. People don't like change, or anything that upsets their routine. This is more pronounced as people get older. Add to that a change that can cost them money, particularly from the tax man, and they are looking only for the reasons why it can't / won't happen, even whilst it's actually happening. Put simply, people just don't want to hear it, even when they know it effects them. The Ostrich Syndrome.

So, a multinational company with a whole floor of lawyers and accountants in their HQ are low hanging fruit. Then, you have their threat to government that if they tax them, they'll move their operation offshore and put plenty out of work, and what do workers pay, income tax.

The Australian economy had been in poor shape prior to covid. Soon to hit $1 Trillion in debt, for a country with a population of only 28 million people. No, you are wrong. Pensioners should have always been paying non resident tax on their pensions. The proposed changes are not new laws, they just make it easier for the government to collect what should have already been paid for decades, but loopholes seen many slip through the net. This link comes from an ATO staff member. Dated December 2021. https://community.ato.gov.au/s/question/a0J9s0000002ngF/p00172380 No. If that was the case, it would have happened decades ago. As mentioned, the proposed changes are not new laws, just a new way of enforcing the existing laws. They close loopholes that thousands have been using for decades.

Or, just wait until you go to transfer your pension one day and see there is 32.5% less money and then complain why you were not informed of the new changes.

I suppose you will say I invented Thailand taxing remitted funds to foreigners in Thailand as well. If I was to post a link about it, and you read it, you would then label the post as scaremongering, despite the media source in the link being credible. No discussion from you on the issue. No plan. No strategy. No tax minimization ideas. No further information. No, you just personally attack the messenger and hope the message goes away.

Put simply, the previous Liberal government proposed changes to 90 year old residency for taxation purposes laws. The current Labor government are aware of the changes, with the assistant treasurer stating they are in the government's "in tray." Link already provided. The changes go from "maintaining a domicile in Australia" and "intention to return to Australia" both of which are difficult for the government to prove, to laws based on "physical presence" and "time" in Australia. The times being considered are 45 days and 183 days. Basically, if you are outside Australia for 183 days, and most Aussie expats in Thailand are, you will be deemed a non resident for tax purposes, and your pension, which is also deemed an income, MAY be taxed at the non resident tax rate of 32.5%. In relation to pensions, rather than the payer then trying to collect, they may just withhold 32.5% of one's pension because immigration has informed Centerlink they have been outside of Australia for 183 days. No one is forcing pensioners to return to Australia, but pensioners have to consider if they can still remain in Thailand on 32.5% less income, or, return to Australia for 45 days and meet a couple of other simple criteria each year, or do the 183 days in Australia each year. As the proposed laws stand, there is no provision to add a tax free threshold to non resident tax brackets, and there's no mention of exemption, or asset / means testing. Plenty of links, quotes, youtube videos have been posted about it. I thought we dodged a bullet in the May budget for a start on the 1st July this year, but as other members have posted, it's looking like the 1st July 2024 may be the start day. Add to this, the Thai governments announcement that they will be taxing remitted funds into the accounts of foreigners, this may also put financial pressure on Aussie expats here as well.

I forgot to mention, one issue on the 45 days is a lot of expats working abroad have lobbied the government to make them change the 45 days to a longer period, this is because they do not want to be a tax resident of Australia. Examples were given of a school teacher returning for their holidays, then needing to return for a sick family member or a funeral, which puts them over the 45 days. The problem for retired expats may mean spending more than 45 days back in Australia. I have posted a link showing the current Labor government were considering changing this part of the proposed laws.

Here's Thailand's tax brackets. Never needed to Google for them in the past. https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/taxes-on-personal-income Say you are on the full single rate aged pension of about $1000AUD per fortnight. That's around 600,000 baht. The Thai tax rate on 600,000 baht, as per the above link from PWC is 15%. 15% of 600,000 baht is 90,000 or 7,500 baht per month in Thai tax.

Well, I'm glad we have progressed from they only want to grab Paul Hogan's money.

Firstly, a resident for taxation purposes is different to physical residency. I am a tax resident of Australia, but haven't been back for some time. This is due to the loopholes in the current 90 year old laws based around "domicile" and "intention." I personally know many guys slipping through the non resident tax net for the same reasons. We have always been expecting the party to end, alas, that time appears to be near. As I posted before, the only way I can see maintaining tax residency of Australia each year, is to do 183 days, or, 45 days and meet two criteria of the factor test, which is easy, but you have to do your 45 days. There is some discussion that the 45 days may only be needed every 3 years. We will have to see. In relation to Thailand, we will have to look at the tax treaty, but Thailand is looking at taxing remitted funds, not income earned inside Thailand. Remitted funds basically means any money transferred into Thailand, including pensions. A way around this maybe to stop sending money from Australia to your Thai bank account, and pulling the money out in Thailand with your Aussie ATM card. Yes, costly in fees, but maybe cheaper than Thai tax. Or, sending the money to the Thai wife's account, or having her set up a Thai bank account for you, in her name, in which you have full access. I would only consider these for a month to month thing, not to hold any substantial amount of money. I haven't really looked into this new Thailand policy as yet. Interesting times ahead.

Can you name some optimistic things about the Australian economic, as of November 2023?

I will post of my surprise if they don't come in, so will many financial organizations, accounting firms, investment houses etc etc. Then, I will post the name of the champagne I will be drinking that night. We dodged a bullet in the last May budget. We could dodge another bullet next May also, but in my opinion, it's only a matter of time before 90 year laws, that are now no longer fit for purpose, are modernized.

Budget delivered in May 2024. New laws come into effect 1st July 2024. Pain starts for non residents 183 days later, so around the 1st January 2025. PM calls a late election in May 2025, either after the budget if it's a good one, or before the budget if it's a bad one. By the time of the election, the changes to non resident for taxation purposes laws will be long forgotten, not to mention, expats don't make their way to an Embassy to vote anyway. You still seem to think that people living in Australia will give a sh*t about people living outside of Australia, and will vote in support. I doubt they will care one bit.

I see your point. There have been so many interpretations put forward by different organizations and professionals, and we have seen some differences in their interpretations through the many links posted from them. How many expats have been back to Australia in the past 3 years? Aussie expats that are either self funded, on a part pension, or a full pension, these changes will have something for everyone, one way or another. Then, you have to deal with Thailand taxing foreign income. However, more information needs to be forthcoming on this, and the tax treaty. https://atlaswealth.com/au/news/thailand-to-begin-taxing-foreign-income-remitted-into-the-country-by-australian-expats/#:~:text=October 18%2C 2023-,Thailand to Begin Taxing Foreign Income Remitted into the Country,Thailand from 1 January 2024. We will have to see the final legislation, and maybe some subsequent test cases in Court, before we all know where we stand within the new laws. One thing is for sure though, they will be passed, and they are not just for guys like Paul Hogan.

Here's Australia's debt clock. https://australiandebtclock.com.au Eye watering figures, increasing by the second. Take out children, pensioners, disabled, and others on Centerlink, then factor in big companies that don't pay any tax, and there's not many PAYG workers left to pay off this debt, and those workers are already the forth highest taxed people in the world, so there's not much more the government can squeeze out of them. https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/tax/australian-taxpayers-hit-with-some-of-the-highest-taxes-in-the-world/news-story/4c6a05dbbbf4cf03bd843e0b3f94aa6b

How is it scaremongering? It's all over the internet. Here's another example. This article is dated 29th September 2023 and is directed to those you are renting out a property. So, that would be someone on a part pension, renting out one or more properties in Australia, but living in Thailand. https://www.apimagazine.com.au/news/article/expatriate-aussies-face-massive-hit-to-tax-residency-status "Such a move would reverse the tax-free status of many expatriate Australians and have ramifications for their property holdings." How can article after article, through link after link, warning members of this forum that these charges are on the way, scaremongering? What will your post be when it's announced in the next budget, and comes into effect on the 1st July 2024?

That's 45 days every financial year, not every 3 years. See the link in the post above. Here's the relevant section. Here’s a breakdown for incoming tax residents 1️⃣ 183-Day Test: Spend 183 days or more in Australia during an income year, and you become a tax resident. 2️⃣ 45-Day Test: If you spent between 45-182 days in Australia during the financial year, keep going to the factor tests. 3️⃣ Factor Tests: Meeting two or more of these factors deems you an Australian tax resident from day one in Australia. These include citizenship, accommodation, family, and economic ties. It reads to me you need to spend at least 45 days in Australia in a financial year, to proceed to the factor tests, and then meet any two of them. Citizenship is easy. Family would be the next easiest one to prove, but you don't get to the factor tests unless you do the 45 days in Australia every financial year.

This guy, the head of InterRetire, says the 1st July 2024 also. This article is dated 21st September 2023. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/australian-tax-residency-rule-changes-back-expats-dale-hoy#:~:text=The intent is to have,considered an Australian tax resident. "The intent is to have new tax residency rules in place and effective from 1 July, 2024."

Are you confusing "residency" as in one's right to live in Australia, like visas, passport etc, example, permanent residency, with resident for taxation purposes? They are different. The resident for taxation laws are 90 years old. Link already provided. If you look at this link, it says the 183 days only applies to individuals arriving in Australia. https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Coming-to-Australia-or-going-overseas/Your-tax-residency/#BK_183daytest "183-day test This test only applies to individuals arriving in Australia. You will be a resident under this test if you're actually present in Australia for more than half the income year, whether continuously or with breaks. unless it is established that your ‘usual place of abode’ is outside Australia and you have no intention of taking up residence here." There's no dispute that under the 90 years old current laws that if you are in Australia for 183 days or more, you are a resident of Australia for taxation purposes, but as expats, we are more interested in trying to remain a resident of Australia for taxation purposes whilst being outside of Australia for more than 183 days. Many have been able to do this, including myself, for years. This was due to the many loopholes in "the domicile test." Alas, the proposed changes, and the 183 day "bright line test" will focus more on physical presence and time, not "intention" and maintaining a domicile, community ties etc etc. How many expats have been in Thailand for years, and have not returned to Australia? I confess, the time period between the 45 days and the 183 days is something that is not clear to me. It was discussed a little on the other thread. Say you are correct, and an expat has to return to Australia for 45 days every 3 years or face a 32.5% reduction in their pension, as another member suggested, without free accommodation somewhere, would the cost of flights and accommodation and associated living costs, be more money than losing 32.5% of their pension? You say they wouldn't "stick it to you" but wouldn't this see you being deemed a non resident for taxation purposes, thus they "stick it to you" assuming you are deriving an income from Australia? I think you will find most Aussie expats in Thailand wish to remain a resident for taxation purposes because it's in their financial interest to do so. However, there are some who would wish to be a non resident to escape paying tax in Australia. I know a few people like this. What's interesting for these people is the new laws coming in how Thailand is going to start taxing foreign income, but that's for another thread. It's a game of maneuvering one's physical presence, and money, so as to maximize time spent in a location where they wish to live, whilst minimizing tax whilst doing so. In the past, it was easy. I have admitted to using the current loopholes for years, and know many others doing the same, but in my opinion, that will change when the proposed change come in.

I disagree. I posted a link in my last post. Is that not "content?"