KhunHeineken

So, expats pay more VAT that 70 million Thai's. Really?

Certain countries have a certain amount of enforcement capabilities. Given Thailand has had a retirement visa for decades, thus has a long recent history of managing legal migration, mostly in the form of retired expats, I would say Thailand's ability to administer a tax policy, collect the tax, and enforce the policy, would be greater than neighboring countries. On that basis, as far as taxing foreigners is concerned, Thailand will be better at implementing a tax policy, in the same way they are better at hosting us, in relation to visas, bank accounts etc. You take the good with the bad with Thailand. It's been a nice ride, but times are changing.

Nope. You still don't get it. Article 18 relies on the provisions of Article 19, and Article 19 does not cater for Centerlink age pensions. Watch 18 minutes to 19 minutes. It confirms what many already know, but many refuse to accept. "Government services - civil service pensions." That's not a Centerlink age pension just because the government pays it.

As another member pointed out, what about the 800k or 65k per month for your extension? That said, I'll be bringing back a wad of cash from the Singapore F1, but under the declarable amount. Have a friend coming over towards the end of the year. Might get him to bring some in as well. Who knows, there might be a new industry spring up similar to "visa runs" to the nearest boarder. There might be a demand to cross the nearest boarder for a "cash run." I'm sure the casinos would be happy to offer it as an extra service. Nothing illegal, under the declarable amount. Could be funny having all these expats living in Thailand, with no money following through their bank account. They must be working illegally, right?

I didn't. I just pointed out your BS.

Fail.

There's a long list of countries in the treaty. In the future, more and more countries will come online. There will be no where for an individual, or their money, to hide. The Swiss can't even offer private banking anymore. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/worldwide-income.asp See the words, "earned anywhere in the world?" "In the United States, worldwide income describes an aggregation of a taxpayer's domestic and foreign income. Worldwide income is income earned anywhere in the world and is used to determine taxable income. In the U.S., citizens and resident aliens are subject to tax on worldwide income."

Article 18 is subject to the "provisions" of Article 19, and Article 19 sets out government occupational pensions. Eg. military pension.

That's because the easiest targets have the most to be concerned about.

"Likely" is not a precise figure, is it? What figures? They are not accurate figures because you don't know them, and can't guarantee them. With Skype, $10AUD is $10AUD. You pay $10AUD and get $10AUD credit. With Local Phone, you don't know how much in fees you'll pay and what rate you'll get, so you don't know the final cost of the $10USD credit with Local Phone. You said earlier it's "likely what your bank charges." Do you know who I bank with? I never said. What about all the other banks in Australia. Do you know their currency conversion fees? You are dribbling again. You are trying to make unknown fees and rates into an exact amount, but you are embarrassing yourself as you refuse to admit that you can not guarantee the EXACT amount of money that is withdrawn from a customer's Aussie bank account when buying $10USD of credit with Local Phone. Now, how much does Local Phone charge to call 13 and 1300 numbers, and 1800 numbers? You never said. Do you know?

Can you post a link showing a tax free threshold for non residents for taxation purposes? With a pension being deemed an income, and taxable, and the government eventually being able to classify an individual as a non resident for tax purposes by proving one has been outside of Australia for several years, what, exactly, are you relying on that ensures pensions are not taxed at non resident rates, the same as any other income?

Link them and quote them then.

Yeah, we do. It's not a Thai market where they throw a price at you and you haggle. Yeah, it does. We were comparing prices between Local Phone and Skype. I questioned if it was the "best" value and you can't even supply a final price to the customer. Not to mention, the price of 13 and 1300 calls, and 1800 toll free calls. Still waiting for these prices. But no EXACT price, right? With Skype, you pay $10AUD, it's a known value. You can't guarantee the price of $15.71 every time an Aussie customer buys $10USD of Local Phone credit, can you? Thus, your figures are rubbery. You haven't even mentioned the bank's currency conversion fee, that's probably because you are not Australian, and don't have an Australian bank account. This fee makes Local Phone even more expensive. Your personal attacks are wasted on me. You say Local Phone is the "best value" and I am asking you to prove it in AUD figures, but you can't, and you know you can't, because of exchange rates and bank currency conversion fees. It really is as simple as that. Thus, Skype becomes the better option.

I have addressed this already, several times. The current 90 year old laws have more holes than Swiss cheese. That's why myself, and many others, have paid no tax. That's why I don't know anyone on a pension who has paid non resident tax. This is exactly why the proposed changes were drafted, and accepted by both major political parties. All those loopholes are closed, and iron clad closed. Simple as that. We know the pension is deemed an income. We know the pension is taxable. We know expats that haven't been back to Australia in years are non residents for tax purposes. We know non resident tax is 30% from $0. Put all the above together and there is cause for concern. As for human rights, do you really think this will end up a UN issue.

This is the point many in the Australia Forum don't want to accept. Article 18 and Article 19 of Australia's DTA with Thailand deals with pensions. Article 18 relies on the "provisions" of Article 19, and Article 19 focuses on government occupational pensions. When this was put to members, one member's reply was, and I quote, "Forget about Article 19." Yes, it's like Article 19 does not exist, because Article 18 says the pension will be tax in the resident country only. Addressed in this video. Around 16 minutes to 18 minutes.

Wrong. Do you even know how a DTA works? Did you watch the youtube video I posted?

Squeezing money out of farang always seems to get the support of all political parties in Thai government.

Read this. See the huge list of countries. Looks "global" enough to me. Scroll down to Thailand. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_taxation

Tax in Thailand is like being the Prime Minister of Thailand, but in reverse. One day you are the PM, next day you are not. One day you have no tax to pay, the next day you have to pay tax. This Is Thailand. (TIT)

Are you suggesting all the Thai government announcements about it are AI generated deep fakes by online trolls?

Enforcement of the laws you mention are labor intensive. It involves police, check points etc. Or, fire inspections etc. For foreigners remitting money into bank accounts, computers will do the job. Big difference.

Can you post a credible link that sets out the frequency and duration of these permissible "trips abroad?"

I'd feel bad if I was living in Australia also.

It's been proven the aged pension is deemed an income at law. It's been proven the age pension is taxable. When the proposed changes are passed, if you are outside of Australia for 183 days, which is the majority of expats living in Thailand, you will be deemed a non resident for tax purposes. No application for review, no appeals. Immigration records will show this in black and white. Non resident tax brackets start from $0, no tax free threshold. As for discrimination and racism, that's the "pensioners will be up in arms" argument. I asked the question in the pension thread, not one member said they went to the Australian Embassy and voted at election time. Why would pensioners living in Australia care about a policy that doesn't effect them, especially if the government "spins" it that by passing such a tax pensioners in Australia will receive more money and / or better services. On the above point, I can't see this being an election issue, despite at any one point in time there being approximately 1 million Aussies living / working overseas. (link previously provided) I say this because Liberal proposed it, and Labor didn't scrap it, and in fact, Labor took it to the consultation stage. So, it will eventually sail through parliament regardless of what party is in government. The current tax residency laws are 90 years old with more holes in them than Swiss cheese. Myself, and some friends here, are using some of these loopholes. The current laws are no longer fit for purpose. They will be changed to a physical presence and time based model, like many other countries have, even Thailand. What's interesting is expat pensioners are taking seriously that Thailand can / will tax their pension as a tax resident of Thailand after 180 days, yet see it as an absolute impossibility for Australia to implement a similar policy that taxes their pension as a non resident of Australia tax purposes after 183 days. Foreign resident tax rates 2020 to 2025 Foreign resident tax rates for 2019–20 to 2024–25. Foreign resident tax rates 2024–25 Taxable income Tax on this income 0 – $135,000 30c for each $1 $135,001 – $190,000 $40,500 plus 37c for each $1 over $135,000 $190,001 and over $60,850 plus 45c for each $1 over $190,000

Not much difference, but the rate is now down from 32.5% to 30% for non residents for tax purposes.