hookedondhamma

Racism is shit. End of. No matter where it is in the world. It should not be tolerated.

That's all I have to say.

This thread is not going to go anywhere in my opinion.

It has not been going anywhere from its start.

It has too many sides to it. Westerners who aren't thai who experience this 'racism,' thais who say it doesn't exist but wouldn't be subject to it if it did, the people in between who have never seen it and want to chime in, etc., and those on both sides who clearly have a hatred for the other side.

Sure brings alot of stuff into the open though. But this is thailand, so nothing will get done about it. Mai bpen rai.

When you say " But this is Thailand" it could be thought of as a form of racism. hahaha

Why do people think that every time someone states something negative about someone from another country that it is racism ??? What ever happened to telling it like it is and how we see it.... we make up our minds based on our experiences. Do we have to only speak good and have to hold in are negative comments. How do people learn and how do things change it we never speak our minds. One word comes to mind ....Sheep .....

Have you read through this entire thread, as well as the one that may have prompted it?

So you were a guest in the US, (possibly became a citizen or was born as one by an immigrant, and that is a point in itself), took benefit from all the things you were entitled to; free schooling, govt. assistance, tax returns etc.

Now it seems you are using the best thing America taught you; that is is not only ok but right and just to express your opinion freely; you are using that right to advocate limiting the free speech of others because you don't like or agree with what they are saying.

When you grew up in the US, how many times did your family complain about things, or criticize a politician etc.?

You can't have it both ways; I think one of the things people complain about is the double standard attitude you get here, of which you seem to be promoting.

Don't forget the negative comments about asian mens ding dongs. I see rude racist comments on this forum and hear racist comments towards asians in every Western country I've been too......

Is this what you mean?

www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/584329-thai-police-applicants-told-they-cannot-have-genital-implants/

I thought it was a bit rude.

lol, you naughty boy. Kan hoo rueh?

Racism is shit. End of. No matter where it is in the world. It should not be tolerated.

That's all I have to say.

This thread is not going to go anywhere in my opinion.

Racism is shit. End of. No matter where it is in the world. It should not be tolerated.

That's all I have to say.

This thread is not going to go anywhere in my opinion.

It has not been going anywhere from its start.

It has too many sides to it. Westerners who aren't thai who experience this 'racism,' thais who say it doesn't exist but wouldn't be subject to it if it did, the people in between who have never seen it and want to chime in, etc., and those on both sides who clearly have a hatred for the other side.

Sure brings alot of stuff into the open though. But this is thailand, so nothing will get done about it. Mai bpen rai.

Agreed. The stupid argument that the word "farang' is racist is just plain silly.

Agreed beyond silly it is dumb and shows a lack of understanding about Thailand and Thai people!

Would both of you agree if the word farang was replaced by the word negro? You would think that's also not racist...but I'm sure a lot of people think it is racist. Of course those ignorant people don't understand the culture, right?

Why introduce a new factor? Resorting to 'what if' situations holds no ground - 7 pages of responses hovering around the OP's statement is great.

The intent was made clear in the original post, and it's actually nice to not see a thread on here derailed out of context, for once.

Another equal favorite…….’Zombie’ by The Cranberries!

Do Thai like zombies….or Cranberries?

Neither. The love somtam though. Who doesn't?

Well ... oh my .... I never ... I'll have what she's having ...

Good lord I thought this was a joke ... really? No, no no ... Burger King?

How 'fun' is the job? If it isn't fun ...

I think it has more to do with the fact that we're scattered all over, and don't know each other closely. That makes all the difference. There are discrepancies in every language, but using the internet in a casual manner is bound to up those discrepancies.

Another poster has chimed in about the use of generalizations. While I think being more specific would be a great practice, the fact of the matter is generalizations are clearly the more resorted to tactic.

One can fold one's arms and go running into the corner crying or one can realize that everyone has their own view, and therefore take what is relevant from any conversation that which will make him a better person, or perpetuate the cycle.

Opinions, if not tackled early on will form into beliefs. And beliefs are hard to change.

Edit*

To everyone,

Thank you for your responses. Just to reiterrate I am trying to stay out of it. And when I say that I mean that I want people to say what's on their minds, and what they think without the fear that I am going to get into a fight with them over their response. (And Guesthouse, I am saying this to you in particular because I completely repect you and I just wanted to let you know why I am not saying anything).

I don't want to turn it into a "me controlling the thread". What it is is that I made a comment. I expect people to respond freely to it. I don't want to respond for fear of what I say being judgmental of what they had to say. It's called freedom of speech. You don't like what I have to say, then contradict me. Feel free to criticize me. I have my own faults and prejudices like everyone else. If you want to say I am full of s__t, then by all means say it. That's the point of me writing this thread.

I just got sick of bottling up my feelings for so long. When I wrote this, I've been on Thaivisa long enough to know I wasn't going to get alot of hugs and kisses. Frankly, I don't care anymore. I'm tired. If anyone has bottled up their feelings, now's the time to let loose.

And as to the Brit bashing, I didn't mention any nationality in my original post. I don't want to turn this into a bash of one people. I will admit I have said things bashing the British in the past, which I do not want this thread to turn into. And as an explanation, my feelings were based upon the fact that for alot of these posts that I am having a problem with...I doubt highly that it was an American, Canadian, New Zealand, or Australian accent I was reading. I got tired of listening to it myself without saying something back. And if you're offended at my comments as to the British, realize that I felt the same way when it was directed towards the Thais.

One of the reasons I wrote this post is because of what happened. You see, one of the people who read the posts that I didn't like was theblether, who is British. He was one of the people (and was not the only one) I saw that actually took a stand and disaproved of the comments. Then I went off and insulted his people in a thread. But he actually read the comments and knew what was being said and why I was getting upset. He actually came onto the thread and defended me after I just insulted his country. Then I felt terrible, because I had not jabbed the people making these comments, but I also realized that there were a whole lot of other British on this board that have been nothing but kind, wonderful people that I just insulted too.

I think this is a great post, and the last paragraph was very well put.

The thing is though, old memories die hard. People fight fire with fire, this is apparent in the TV forum. So, sometimes it's just best to find a way to release feelings via another way beside voicing them in the TV forum, otherwise you're inviting the same criticsm - albeit on a darker level - than what you've dished out. But I'm sure you know that already, and have experienced it, first-hand.

Which is why it would'nt be a bad idea if this thread was closed before things get to that level, again. But it's all how you see it, OP. In this case, you are the sole person who can still put the lid back on the box.

Also don't forget many Thais themselves are quite racist.

I still find it hard to use the term 'racism' here in thailand. Partly because many have not been exposed to other cultures through means other than the tv, (seeing a westerner from another country bang a bargirl doesn't exactly give one the right to talk as if one knows all people outside of SE Asia, either). If someone eats McDonalds, black pudding and Pizza Hut doesn't make someone any more 'westernized' than the next person. Sure many love to complain about the slow infiltration of 'non-thai values' slowly making their way into this country - but everything is always changing, even culture (though my thai friend insists thai culture doesn't change), and money talks.

Of course you will have the idiots that go out of their way to discriminate against others due to their fear of not wanting to find out the truth; but while living in thailand, I still can't call thais racist. Sorry about that. Back on topic.

I think you pointed something out that is worth repeating - generalizations. And as many can see from the many posts on here, it goes both ways - with westerners and thais on the forum.

I do have to say though, it's great to see people recycling stuff, even if their primary reason is for making a baht.

In my home country one could get into some serious trouble for 'picking through trash.'

Plus, doesn't it make your heart melt when you see the schoolkids and sometimes even groups in the mubahn cleaning up their neighborhood, with smiles on their faces?

It sure does make mine melt, moreso than the stuff that is called 'bread' is left out on the counter for a few days.

Sometimes you do what you have to do get by.

I had no idea about the bags and cardboard though - that's a new one.

Come on submaniac, you already know what the thread is going to turn into.

As for comparing slavery with the 'demeaning comments towards thais', there really is no comparison. America is just as different as thailand.

As far as being too sensitive though, there is an equivalent here - ' ... think too much/ tink too mut '

No need for starting a thread and then leaving, because when the s*** hits the fan, as it always does, certain people will come out of the woodwork which you more than likely will respond too.

I do recommend that if it does grate you that much, just try to spend as much time away from TV as you can. You can't change someone's opinion no matter how hard you try. That starts from within. Otherwise you're subjecting yourself to endless irritation and unnecessary migraines.

do you mean if you don't like it leave?

I think the OP makes a very valid point, and the true irony of the situation is that many on here have married into these families of halfwit children yet persist in regularly bashing thais every chance they get.

One can only imagine what it would be like sharing a bed and a life with these individuals. The daily degradation must require the stoicism of a rock to weather. They must hear a constant barrage of you people ....., and, "in my country......".

Of course not, tinfoilhat. ThaiVisa is a small piece of land in the world of cyberspace, not the kingdom.

I meant that if it does grate him that much, he should just try to spend as much time away from TV as he can. The OP is in California, not thailand. Also, he can't leave even if he wanted to. That would'nt be very nice for me to suggest using that TV blanket statement. However, something as simple as taking your finger off the computer mouse to access material that makes you irritated - that I did suggest.

It's not racism unless it is directed against a race, What we see here is culturism which probably isn't a word. But the difference is discrimination based on people's behavior as a group rather than their ancestry. That being said, I still get what the OP is saying, and his point is valid. people say things here that are insulting to a broad swipe of people and it is done so unfairly and anonymously. This is a sovereign nation and Thais have a right to behave anyway they please within there own laws, or for some, regardless of the laws.

For the record, Thailand has it's own slavery record, and it lasted longer than America's, so no points awarded there.

Excellent post. This is a great stopper to this entire topic. But Leo bottles have already been smashed and tire irons are slowly making their way from the trunks of taxi-meters.

I feel I understand mostly what you are saying. It seems to me after being in Thailand for years that many foreigners donot grasp the reality they arenot in their homeland or in their culture. Seems to me many expect Thais to be similar to people in their home country. Sure they wear t shirts the same as foreigners not tribal wear. Sure they drive new cars and ,trucks just like foreigners homeland. Sure they are upwardly mobile same as at home. But they are a different culture until a foreigner accepts that and stops judging from their life experiences at home, they will never understand Thailand or its people.

I am Canadian and I find many Europeans judge me by my nationality. They donot even know me but discard everything I say as not meaningful. One even went as far as to state he couldnot relate to people who have not read english literature so he saw no need to talk to me. I read and owned all Charles Dickens before I was 16. Another one who I thought had some decent character,I invited to Canada to sail the west coast with me on my boat. He came and wrecked the whole experience by simply being an aloof fool.I took him to my Royal Yacht Club and all he did was huff and puff and stammer became a complete imbecile.Well trying very hard to look down at me.It was like I didnot deserve to assocate with that class of people. But he showed me he was incapable of associating. He was all bluff about his place in the class system.

So when you read these imbecile post just remember the source. And donot let them drag you down to their level.

This guy was married to a Thai and had done absolutely nothing to learn about Thai culture. He like many others walk through life in a vacuum.

I'm a bit curious... How exactly are the Europeans judging by your nationality?

He wrote very well; he didn't say 'all', but 'many'. This was an experience solely restricted to himself. I've never had any Europeans judge me. I've had a couple of Australians joke about my country but it's just friendly banter.

But anyways, this thread is going to be interesting. Especially with a topic that reads 'The Hotbutton Racism Thread' in a thailand-related forum.

Pseudolus is banned. The other thread about 'offensive comments towards thais possibly being against thai law' didn't bring enough people who would've been banned out, so I guess this is the next attempt.

I believe it is way too early to start a thread on this - I highly doubt old wounds have been healed, as witnessed by the last explosive thread from a couple of weeks ago. It's just bound to increase anger on both sides, while cleaning up the TV member registry.

Come on submaniac, you already know what the thread is going to turn into.

As for comparing slavery with the 'demeaning comments towards thais', there really is no comparison. America is just as different as thailand.

As far as being too sensitive though, there is an equivalent here - ' ... think too much/ tink too mut '

No need for starting a thread and then leaving, because when the s*** hits the fan, as it always does, certain people will come out of the woodwork which you more than likely will respond too.

I do recommend that if it does grate you that much, just try to spend as much time away from TV as you can. You can't change someone's opinion no matter how hard you try. That starts from within. Otherwise you're subjecting yourself to endless irritation and unnecessary migraines.

Recycle what is recyclable. Other than that, isn't trash just trash? When it is set out, it should'nt have any other sort of value; otherwise one would probably keep it.

Maybe if there were important statements and other documents, but I'd try and find a better way of disposing them other than leaving them out for others to ruffle through.

I noticed that quite a few thais I know do the same - they really value the importance of the baht. Just the way things are sometimes.

Point is, Thais wouldn't use that language when referring to Thais they don't know, yet they have no problem using these terms in third person (or even more rudely, directly to a foreigner who doesn't understand) for a "farang."

Great post.

Before the topic starts to get derailed again, let me put out the obligatory TV phrase. "Well, it's not just limited to thailand, they do it in [insert country here] and it's not considered a problem over there."

Sorry if its been mentioned already but as farang is used for white skinned foreigners there is also

"keek" which groups together all middle eastern countries and india, pakistan.

Uses in the same way as farang.

The first time I heard that word used here I asked myself internally 'Did I really just hear that?' I've never heard any of my Arabic-speaking friends use words for thais, other than 'thai.'

Culture shock came in many different forms back then.

One thing that still surprises me though is I have yet to hear any derogatory labels about thais in their own language, and even if there were, they'd probably be laughed about ... after the offender got some 'thai hospitality' (a 10 to 1 beatdown).

Why does Thai call a black man Farang?

He is not even white.

Farang comes from the word France.

I don't know. In my view, f-rang is racial and cultural. I don't think that Thais generally call a black African f-rang, do they? I think more likely a black man from one of the creamy countries like Canada would be more likely to be called f-rang based on cultural factors.

I've only been called 'farang dam' once. The other 99% of the time I've just been called 'falang' or mistaken as a half-breed. As for the man who called me 'farang dam', it was no surprise he was quite the idiot, and was always quick to make comments about people of darker skin color. Somewhere along the line he forgot to take a look in the mirror and realized he is the color he despises so much. Ignorance has no boundaries.

I don't think thais are too well-versed on culture outside of their borders. The thais who called me 'farang' never knew where I came from beforehand, but did later on when asking about it. That was followed scratching heads (which more than likely came from breaking a pre-conceived thought about 'creamy countries') and some asking for info on how to go there. Go figure.

I had begun writing a post yesterday about the farang thing and abandoned, but I will try again today.

I quizzed some Thai friends about it for an hour or so (no, they aren't using "farang mun").

The result was that they use "farang" as a sort of classifier for humans, which for me explains why it is so hard to not use it in Thai language, especially in the lower classes, since their command of Thai is not good.

Wow, that's interesting. I'm pretty sure they told you what they wanted to hear. Now, do you believe it?

The 'pasaa boran' is quite a big deal here. Many off-shot ways of speaking thai would result in its user possibly being branded as 'ban nawk'.

Wasn't 'kon' the classifier for humans? Well, I guess if you're thai, it's the classifier for other thais

Oh wait, sorry about that, manarak, I skimmed over the part that read 'sort of classifier for humans'

By the way, Jingthing, your new avatar is fabulous, by the way. *snap snap* Werk that gurl *snap snap*

Webbangkok, are you from the US? Yes, the kkk is there, but it is one of those things that doesn't have much relevance. Many ethnic groups are played with over there, with varying degrees. Depending on which area you're in you're either bound so see some ethnic intolerance going on which depends on a number of factors (as always, ignorance being be most dominant followed by stupidity). But considering the .5" space thailand takes up in comparison to the page and a half of the US by sheer size of country and ethnic diversity the US has, as well as other countries not thailand ... (but this thread is about thailand, so I'll stop with the former).

But to answer your question, some thais are tolerant, some aren't - it shouldn't take long to figure out why that is if one stays in the country long enough.

Even if there were hate groups here, what would be done about them?

By the way, your avatar is adorable.

I am one of the minority that dislike being called 'farang'.

Back in the UK, it would not have crossed my mind (or any of my friends) to refer to someone as 'that foreigner/black/Asian' etc. etc. as it is rude.

Having said this, I've never been called farang to my face - those that don't know my name have always said Madam, but I dislike hearing it quietly in the background when they're obviously referring to me.

But how do you know they're referring to you? I've never heard a conversation amongst thais that holds its original topic for more than a few seconds.

Also, keep in mind, for those of us born in places like the UK, America, Brazil, etc., we grow up with people of many different ethnic backgrounds, so we take in many different viewpoints, and have the unique opportunity to experience other cultures that aren't closely-related. One can't say the same for thailand, save the bordering countries - and as my thai friend says 'They look Thai'/i.e those Asian facial features ... plus, it's thailand.

It shouldn't be too big of a deal why those looking different from the norm would be called something other than their nationality ... plus, it's thailand.

I get mistaken for a half-breed quite a bit here. But I don't mind stating that I am a 'falang.' Any further explanation is a waste of time and energy.

+1 for your honesty, by the way :-)

"Weird"? I find it fascinating and informative. How is it "weird"?

I found many things 'weird' when I came here. That quickly changed, though.

OP, please take note of the 'Face' comment Several made. It is VERY important, I can't stress that enough. That doesn't mean you have to adapt it as your own, though. Just be observant. Check up also on the concept of 'Nam Jai.'

As far as the past goes, from what I've seen, it's ok to look back if it's something 'sanook' or fun. Anything otherwise probably isn't too good of an idea. One of my old acquaintances was going off on his wife (who wasn't present at the time) and said 'If you hold on to the past, you're living in it. That's why they say 'living in the past.' I'll remember that for the rest of me life.

Good luck with everything, and if you have anything that confuses you, just search around the forum - or email a few of the thai members (they're very friendly, and helpful).

I am NOT a prolific poster! I only play one on t.v. ...

Next ...

Thank God JT is a prolific poster on Thaivisa......without him........

Thaivisa members would be cruelly uninformed about Gay Rights issues in Thailand, and the likelihood of Thailand making you bi-sexual............

President Obama would fail to be re-elected as JT is single-handedly persuading all American members to vote for him in the postal ballot..............

and the Pattaya ex-pats would starve to death without his excellent food reviews.

ps JT......that's not your best side, you should know that by now

Some people forget that they're using an electronic medium ... so while the tone of the writer can get across, it's missing the physical voice of the person, which can convey the other percentage. Unfortunately some take advantage of it, writing something completely bogus, or offensive, and then coming back later to ask for forgiveness. At the end of the day I'm sure there are worse things to get offended over.

Attach feelings to a certain poster and let him/her grow on you, or annoy the heck out of you, and it's just bound to become a big mess later. Let it go in one ear and out the other. If it's something that important, then by all means, add it to the shelf.