Steely Dan

Wonderful wishes for the Palestinian nationalist movement:

1. Give up antisemitism; it may have been in the roots of the movement but it doesn't have to be destiny

2. Give up the idea of unconditional right of return (you can't get everything you dream of)

3. Embrace the idea of the two state solution (so much better than no state)

4. Accept the existence of the Jewish state of Israel (who knows, in peace time they may be wonderful partners, they already love falafel)

5. Forget violent resistance. Embrace non-violent resistance.

6. Prepare to celebrate a fully official new state of Palestine within a year

you are so funny sometimes, i laughed so hard i nearly swallowed my tongue anything else you would like, what if they killed every new born son for a year?

Your reference to the killing of the first born by extension compares Jing's list to the plagues God inflicted on the Egyptians. It is quite funny if you consider for instance giving up violence or accept your neighbors existence is similar punishment to the biblical plagues.

Sadly this appears to be the case with the Palestinians making your amusement tragi-comic in it's own right.

No, but Netanyahu posted on his facebook page: Death to Arabs. I don't know if he added Oy Vey

http://www.kuna.net....617&Language=en

Kuwait, where there are moves to get rid of all Churches. Trust you to post such nonsense and appear to believe it at face value - All it demonstrates is the racism Israel faces from the arab world and it's apologists.

Edit: As suspected, quote misattributed. More malicious and mendacious libel from the usual suspects.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/jordanian-establishment-daily-netanyahu-wishes-death-to-all-arabs/

The offensive comments were actually responses to Netanyahu’s expression of condolence, and removed from his page within an hour of being posted, Israeli economic daily The Marker, part of Haaretz group, reported.

Apparently, that is just an allegation as this person is being held without charges.

Being a member of a terrorist organization is sufficient cause in it's own right.

As Pakboong pointed out......an allegation

So are you down with that then?

If someone claims you or yours is a member of some group your ok

with being held?

If you are suspected of committing a crime you can be detained for a period without charges being brought, especially in cases of individuals who pose a danger to civilians if released. This detention is always finite, but does not march to the schedule that appologistas would sometimes like, but provided no evidence of a crime is found by Apr 17 he will be released.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9095823/Palestinian-Khader-Adnan-ends-record-66-day-hunger-strike-as-Israel-agrees-to-set-him-free.html

Palestinian prisoner Khader Adnan has ended his 66-day hunger strike, the longest carried out by any Palestinian prisoner, after Israel agreed to set him free on April 17.

"A leader in the Islamic Jihad".

No sympathy for this violent terrorist.

Apparently, that is just an allegation as this person is being held without charges.

Being a member of a terrorist organization is sufficient cause in it's own right.

By the way, if food prices are rising, is this likely to cause civil strife for the gov't?

Internally, what is the reaction to the sanctions and the effect it is having on everyday life?

Pointing fingers aside I tend to think the effect will be the same as any time sanctions such as these are used

to hurt an economy & people......Hatred will be directed against those who impose the sanctions.

Those hurt by them who have done nothing certifiably wrong only see this as another form of unprovoked attack.

On the other hand they may see sanctions as a by product of the insane regime which fixed the last election and has ruined Iran's economy and stunted it's development for decades, however some TV posters seem to be more sympathetic towards said regime than the Iranian people are.

I don't quite understand how it is that the US is procrastinating with regard to attacking a country that poses no threat to them.

Iran does pose a threat to the US. They claim to be well on the way to a missle that will reach the USA and they have threatened to cause disruptions to the oil supply which would affect the whole planet.

1. Iran wants to build a peace pipeline.

2. U.S. military seeks more powerful bomb against Iran

Iran repeatedly threatens to eliminate Israel, it routinely breeches the convention on protecting diplomats and uses terrorists as proxy for it's foreign policy. It buries it's nuclear technology deep underground and refuses access to the IAEA (They may get into Iran, but they get to see nothing). Only the most blinkered apologists could argue Iran is a peaceful victim.

Edit: As stated, the inspectors get in but they see nothing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17122738

The UN nuclear watchdog says Iran has stopped a team of inspectors from visiting a key military site.

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) says no deal was been reached on inspecting the Parchin site, south of Tehran, despite "intensive efforts".

The inspectors had sought to clarify the "possible military dimensions" of Iran's nuclear programme.

Richard Falk as per usual shows concern for the well being of terrorists who target civilians than he does for innocent civilians themselves.

http://disasteremerg...nian-oil-to-eu/

Here is my speculation. Israel have lost patience with U.S procrastination over Iran and are going to take matters into their own hands. Obama is scheduled to meet Netanyahu on March 5th, which is well flagged. There are far too many so called false flags being called at present, but I suspect military action may take place before this date and the announcement of the meeting may be intended to fool Iran and perhaps stop them from cutting off oil to more E.U Countries in the short term, until they secure alternative supplies.

I don't quite understand how it is that the US is procrastinating with regard to attacking a country that poses no threat to them. I do understand why Israel wants to attack but for the US to risk its young to such a cause is really stupid IMO. Every key member of the US Military and Intelligence agencies have gone on record saying that it would be foolish to attack Iran now. That is not procrastination, that is why these people have the positions that they have. The names of these individuals are too numerous to list and all say pretty much the same thing. They start with the Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff on down.

Let's just say that sanctions that really hurt Iran could have been applied sooner and not doing so could be viewed as procrastination. I'm also of the opinion that any military action now is that much more problematic than it would have been some time ago, before Iran started burying things deep underground. My perception is that in spite of the mounting complication of military action the U.S held Israel back from unilateral action probably due to the economic implications of said action. Again, my perception is the Israelis would view this as procrastination and any talks offered now by Iran would yet again be a cynical ploy to play for time.

The activity of oil embargoes to and from European nations do indeed provide clues as to what's going down.

http://disasteremerg...nian-oil-to-eu/

Here is my speculation. Israel have lost patience with U.S procrastination over Iran and are going to take matters into their own hands. Obama is scheduled to meet Netanyahu on March 5th, which is well flagged. There are far too many so called false flags being called at present, but I suspect military action may take place before this date and the announcement of the meeting may be intended to fool Iran and perhaps stop them from cutting off oil to more E.U Countries in the short term, until they secure alternative supplies.

Well... there are elections in March in Iran as well, plus of course the US has already indicated the extension of sanctions to any company that is doing business in Iranian oil.

Jan 18 - A Chinese Oil Trading company became a target of US sanctions http://www.seanews.c...n-US-Sanctions/

At the moment no more palm oil from Malaysia (payments problems), almost no more rice from india (payments problems), the rial has halved in value.... Actual outside military action may not be needed when people cannot buy food.

Interesting. Though a la North Korea I doubt the small matter of people starving would make much of an impression with the Iranian regime. I had a quick look at the oil price and really there is nothing out of the ordinary considering the geopolitical tensions, so I did a little digging.

The Baltic dry index is a measure of world sea freight activity and here I do indeed see problems plus a reason for the oil price not going through the roof. The index is seen as a leading indicator for the global econony, and contrary to what the stock market is saying it is predicting a big recession. This of course would constrain world demand for oil and paradoxically may provide an opportunity to tackle Iran whilst their oil card is not in such high demand.

I know it's a little O/T but here is an article about the current BDI which bears out my speculation about petroleum use.

http://www.wikinvest.com/wikinvest/api.php?action=viewNews&aid=1233105&page=Index%3ABaltic_Dry_Index_-_BDI_%28BALDRY%29&wire=1&format=html&comments=0

f the global economy is not heading for a recession, then why is global shipping slowing down so dramatically? Many economists believe that measures of global shipping such as the Baltic Dry Index are leading economic indicators. In other words, they change before the overall economic picture changes. For example, back in early 2008 the Baltic Dry Index began falling dramatically.

http://disasteremergencysupplies.com/snafu/2012/02/drumbeats-of-war-race-to-cut-iranian-oil-to-eu/

Here is my speculation. Israel have lost patience with U.S procrastination over Iran and are going to take matters into their own hands. Obama is scheduled to meet Netanyahu on March 5th, which is well flagged. There are far too many so called false flags being called at present, but I suspect military action may take place before this date and the announcement of the meeting may be intended to fool Iran and perhaps stop them from cutting off oil to more E.U Countries in the short term, until they secure alternative supplies.

In essence what this thread is about is the US using drones and other means as a weapon against the perpetrators of Terrorism against the West and "Un believers", to be realistic the choice is quite simple Either you think the Muslims are morally justified in their war against us, or you think that the US is not morally justified in stopping them ,I have made my views quite plain in saying that the US is acting within its rights , whether you out there think the Islamic fundamentalists are acting within their's by carrying out Suicide killings against innocent people , such as London,Bali,Madrid ,Mumbai,etc etc is your choice,personally this is my last word on the subject as it,s now bordering on the ridiculous!

Ridiculous............But it is interesting how folks can throw religion in to suit *their* purposes/excuses

The US is not acting within any rights to be killing fields of civilians in foreign countries with which the US congress has not declared war.

If folks feel some compelling belief that the tribes in east nowhere Pakistan care about the US civilians or their religion well....You put way too much faith in the rhetoric you are fed through the media prism

The facts remain the same....The US has occupied foreign soil killing in an undeclared war for over a decade now. What is the limit?

What is the goal?

Religious zealots from either side will always find a way to claim their belief is right & the reason they are killing others is because others want to kill them for their beliefs....Truth is far from either,

Truth is religious zealots are scary no matter what side of the world they are from.

It is simple minds that like to point at events & knowingly claim they are in fact backed by religious zealots...Yes they may be... but yet many are in fact false flags perpetrated by other/opposite side religious zealots.

So if it was not religion being the motivating force behind the suspected militants why pray were Uzbeks and in other cases individuals even holding US or UK passports doing in Pakistan to be shot at in the first place? There are better places to go on holiday than what the U.S government describes as the most dangerous place on earth.

all this does is motivate hundreds more to become actively extreme...

there's no easy solution, but these types of strikes..and indeed, most wars we've been involved in are a shame on america

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They were pre-motivated and have been for centuries before the founding fathers were even born. You are uncritically swallowing their propaganda (or worse still spreading it) if you accept their excuse for drone attacks causing radicalization. Indeed as a reminder the militants in question had to travel from Uzbekistan to be hit on the head by a drone, and these militants are a blight on the local population, who as a reminder (according to the Pk tribune) a majority of North Waziristanis are in favour of drones being used to combat them, largely because drones do the job more effectively and with less collateral damage than the Pakistani army causes trying to do the same job.

My belief is the Iranian government is responsible for the bombings, but they ensured that they would be carried out badly intentionally, in order to convince observers that it was a false flag operation instigated by the Israelis.

Thus the Iranians actually instructed their operatives to trigger the so-called "accidental" explosion at their apartment; to deliberately leave Iranian passports lying around to be discovered once this planned alarm was triggered; and told them to make ostentatiously obvious attempts to "flee to Iran" -- all carefully orchestrated to make it seem plausible that it was a false flag attack and thus attempt to make the blame fall on Israel.

Looks like they succeeded admirably in this very clever plan!

By George, you've got it! Why didn't we see this before.

Phew! At least someone gets that this was satire!

The delusional are impervious to humour....

But not tinfoilery.

Obviously by that remark you mean the mass murders in London/Madrid/Mumbai/Bali/ Russia and Southern Thailand all perpetrated by Muslims against people of a different faith . and Steely Dan 270 million ,I see you have read "tears of Jihad " maybe members would like to Google it

I think they should whilst it is still possible to read such things. It certainly puts into the shade the mass murders of the far left, perhaps that's why they are so keen on championing the Islamic religious extremists so they can take note of how to murder and extinguish human rights more efficiently.

The way I see it is that any "suspected" Islamic terrorist who meets his end ,is far far better than the HUNDRED'S of attacks against totally innocent people who's only sin is to be of a different religion (or infidel) and any one who really believes that Islamic fundamentalism is not on a war footing with "non believers ,then I respectfully suggest you read the Koran.

So basically your saying you dont like the idea of the hundreds of thousands killed over there because they have a different religion?

How's about 270 million?

Sanctions.............a Two Way Street

When folks want to impose sanctions on a group who has done no actual certifiable crime...It is nothing more than

forcing isolationism on them.

Now the bought friends of the instigators reap what they help sow .....Of course Israel & the US will call this further acts of war<sic>

Yet unlike these reactions...what caused them have been a One Way Street imposed by a impudent nation & their paid for bully.

Ah, Flying's patented one way cause and effect valve. In the real world politics is a two way street and if Iran as you argue is a passive victim then they are the most bellicose passive victim in world history.

I will demur from giving specific examples of Iran's provocative behavior seeing as whatever example is given you will trace back to an ancient U.S policy decision. It does however occur to me that you could argue that Nazi Germany was a manifestation of the unfair reparations terms hammered out at Versailles. You would no doubt during WWII have also argued in favour of U.S isolationism, however the truth is inescapable with Iran, just as it was with Nazi Germany that however they came into being they both pose a dire threat to world peace and only the most rabid moral relativist would argue the same about their enemies.

Sanctions.............a Two Way Street

When folks want to impose sanctions on a group who has done no actual certifiable crime...It is nothing more than

forcing isolationism on them.

Now watch as the bought friends of the instigators they reap what they sow .....Israel & the US will call this further acts of war<sic>

Yet unlike these reactions...what caused them have been a One Way Street imposed by a impudent nation & their paid for bully.

would i be right in thinking every action that iran has carried out has been reactive?

Like the attempted assassination of the Saudi ambassador in Washington, D.C.?

Or the storming of the British embassy.

Israel and Iran have the same credibility. Both accusing each other without any proof.

So two legs, a blown up house and three arrested Iranian nationals are no evidence? I put it to you that's a dam_n sight more evidence than Iran have to argue Israel assassinated their scientists.

Is not this tit for tat. after Israelis assasintaing Iranian scientists.?

Let me answer that in tinfoil hat style: Perhaps the Iranians assassinated their own scientists as they were about to spill the beans about the Iranian weapons program, they then blamed Israel for this so they could then get some equivalence credits allowing a 'retaliatory attack' on Israeli targets.

Sound far fetched? Well perhaps you could see how absurd the Iranian claims are as are the apologists who claim to believe them.

I guess you need to join the under 5's forum also Steely. Disappointing, normally your posts whilst not agreeable are adult. I guess that book must have large pictures in it. Does it come with free crayons? Maybe you could loan it to Ulysees.

Actually, probably best to not get past the cover picture or the facts contained within may lead to exploding heads. But still people refuse to believe Iran is not behind the Bangkok explosions and heap absurdity on absurdity by alleging an Israeli false flag mission to target their own diplomats. At least the Islamists are more specific with their lies and blood libels such as the remote controlled shark that Mossad sent to destroy the Egyptian tourist industry or the Spy vulture caught over Saudi Arabia. Still what the left lacks for in imagination it makes up for in repetition.

And the idea is not half baked thank you very much, and furthermore it's not just my idea, but that of many investigative journalist. Go do some reading.

Is that what they call those bloggers on the tinfoil hat websites?

No. Did I say bloggers? I am sure I said Investigative Journalists. There again to the under 5's it could look like 'bloggers'.

Your blanket denial smokescreen fools nobody.

No problem with killing someone so evil, but by my reckoning he lived for almost as long after the murder as he did before it. This seems to be a criminal waste of resources when many Americans are on food stamps.

"took place in August 2000"

More than 11 years ago. Very incompetent so someone should tell the detective don’t bother to talk to Thai officials, they will not be helpful at all and just do you job independently

and should you find your man and want justice, consider rendition.

Soon, drones will be carrying autonomous weapons to kill people. Each robot will have the ability to make kill decisions.

It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's a small autonomous killing machine!

To some degree this is true even today, with regard to some systems.

Not that the machine makes the decision per se, but auto-identification of target isn't a new concept, and with it can come a certain bias.

In other cases the process is almost fully automated, but that is morer relevant to defense oriented systems where super fast reaction time is called for (intercepting missiles, for example).

Hmmm, Time to lose the beard, as they may well be thinking in North Waziristan.

P.S I note that the dead were from Uzbekistan, I guess they must have made a wrong turning and inadvertently violated Pakistani sovereignty.