Steely Dan

Good luck Goodluck, you're going to need it - There are echoes of the Ivory Coast and Sudan situations here where politics are based on religion then war or even genocide can follow.

Read the article closely. Do you see any mention of where the detainees come from? Are they Angry Americans? Silly Swedes? Saucy Spaniards? We'll never know, as political correctness and privacy laws discourage country of origin statements..

Actually this PC coyness is both patronising as well as damaging because in the absence of confirmation of nationality people will draw their own conclusions anyway and resent the non-disclosure at the same time.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110421/wl_afp/australiaimmigrationprotest

Malaysia is such a beacon of freedom isn't it.

I can't see why anyone in the South of Thailand would want to be ruled by Malaysia, unless of course they are either misogynistic or homophobic bigots.

I did a quick search for Red cross Gaza and chanced upon this advert, from (ahem) greatergood.org

http://greatergood.org/gtgm-CrisisGaza-35352.html?gclid=CPTqmtnVrKgCFQd76wod_BbfHg

The humanitarian situation for civilians in the Gaza Strip is still grim as a result of weeks of fighting. Food, water and fuel are all in short supply.

Apparently you can donate through 'The hunger site', which is their partner site. Perhaps this should be re-badged the hunger and obesity site if they are going to lump Gaza in with places where there actually is hunger, or indeed a humanitarian crisis, such as there is in much of the middle east.

Quick edit to show pictures of the non crisis just so liberal lefties can see where their money is going, apart from on weapons smuggling of course.

It now then raises the issue for the need of flotilla and what is really on? it for the participants not wanting it to be inspected by the IDF.

The aim of the flotilla is simply to have ships stopped and searched, just as the aim of the missiles is to keep the borders sealed, how else can you argue Israel is an 'apartheid' state and use this lie to campaign for a boycott of Israeli products or institutions.

8 Million Coptic christians live in Egypt. If Egypt becomes an Islamic state as oppose to a secular one there is the potential for a humanitarian crisis worse than the Sudan or East Timor here. It can't be repeated enough that to encourage Mubarak's departure was extreme folly.

"There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza," said Mathilde Redmatn, deputy director of the Red Cross in Gaza. "If you go to the supermarket, there are products. There are restaurants and a nice beach. The problem is mainly in maintenance of infrastructure and in access to goods."

Redmatn added that despite the problems the city endures a "surprising normalcy" but remarked that the rocket attacks from both sides of the Gaza Strip are a violation of international law.

"Rocket fire from the Gaza Strip is against international law because it is directed at civilians," The Red Cross deputy director said. "We conduct dialogue with Hamas on the matter."

Huh, no humanitarian crisis? I guess obesity doesn't count then. I guess those evil Zionist propaganda videos were telling the truth then. Just a shame about the deliberate illegal rocket fire by Hamas - without it there would be no need for a blockade and the 'nice beach' could become a place for tourists to visit. :jap:

The best bit is the phrase 'surprising normalcy' - Well yes surprising if you ever believed for a minute all the lies spouted by the Arab world's propaganda machine which was eagerly and uncritically lapped up by much of the western press.

The lifting of the state of emergency tells nothing of what's really happening. I suspect Syria is about to blow up big time and Iran are going to be furious.

http://www.debka.com/article/20860/

President Bashar Assad, while abrogating Syria's detested 48-year old emergency laws Tuesday, April 19, immediately replaced them with new draconian measures banning any kind of public protest against his regime and permitting midnight arrests. His bloody showdown with widening circles of protesters is in its final act, debkafile's Middle East sources report, and threatens to explode into a sectarian war.

The frothers must be disappointed that this is a European initiative as two of the 4 combat participants, USA and Canada are not willing to send ground forces. It should be very clear now that it was the Europeans that started this intervention.

Yes, but why?? It is clear that without outside intervention Gadaffi would probably prevail and oil supplies from Libya would not be disrupted for long. Now we have a civil war with the UK & France trying to prop up the weaker side. They are also in effect doing the Arab league's dirty work by proxy, which they will get no thanks for however the cards may drop.

48 Year state of emergency. I guess they might have progressed to becoming a true democracy in a millenium, give or take a century or so.

To focus on the Original topic, the arrest of two suspects for the murder of five Israelis carried out with a callousness and brutality that defy belief. Now if these represent a minority, why were their actions termed 'heroic' by Al Aqsa who claimed credit for it. Why did we see Palestinians including women celebrating and handing out sweets at the news, as they did after 9/11?

If people are brainwashed into hating from an early age you can't simply undo that hatred by their leaders suddenly announcing peace is here, it may well take generations to achieve such a result. I wish I could share your belief that only a small minority of extremists exist, but many of the news topics that come up here from around the world argue differently.

Debate about YOUR fact makes no sense indeed .....since you only believe in your own truth and right and your own political correctness is carved in granite in your brain and there's no room for other opinions and other facts (because it was taugth to you) and what's written in Israeli history books, not the Palestinian- and/or Arab historical books because you even deny the rights of the Palestinians to have their own country.

That's the problem in the Middle East; all groups and religions only believe in their own truth. The others are ALWAYS wrong but "we" are -ALWAYS correct.

It's time to come out for all parties, talk to each other...... and lock ALL leaders up in a resort, a hotel and don't let them come out until a consensus has been reached. Let it take 1 year, 2 years if necessary but if people stay together...wise people, they will reach a consensus and a basis for long term peace and get rid of radical fanatics within their own borders.

Plenty of places and countries who would like to host such a consensus conference but the main parties, the Israeli and the Palestinians are not ready for it yet.

Oh...and leave the M-16's at home

LaoPo

The facts are important and truth is universal. If Palestine ever existed as an independant Country you should be able to address the check list of questions demonstrating it. If you can not it does demonstrate that what 'Palestinians' are campaigning for is a mirage based on propaganda. This is not to say they shouldn't be given citizenship rights somewhere, be it in Israel, Egypt, Jordan or Syria. If they persist in wanting to be grouped together as Palestinians then that is also ok, but there is no historical borders to base it's location on.

The U.N first came up with the two state solution which was accepted by the Israelis, it was the subsequent actions of so called Palestinians which resulted in the loss of further lands.

But I agree in part, all of this should not in theory prevent the two sides sitting down and coming to some agreement, how I wish the environment was similar to when Yitzak Rabin was alive and there was genuine hope. Now there is an uncomfortable truth which has to be faced, namely there is a battle going on within Islam to determine whether it can grow up into a moderate model consistent with a secular constitution, or whether instead it gravitates towards medieval savagery. This battle is taking place throughout the world and the so called Arab spring may turn out to be nothing more than replacing despots with religous bigotry. There can be no negotiation with the Salafist extremist model and so until the dust settles Israel has nobody to negotiate with except Fatah, who can only vouch for some of the Palestinian population, furthermore it is far from certain that even the West bank Palestinians would be prepared to trade land for peace, such is the hatred which has been taught to successive generations. There is no excuse for this; I doubt very much you would find much hatred for Germans amongst Israelis, for that would be original sin, which as we know well is central to fundamentalist Islam.

Yes. Not just Palestinians in that 1%. Nor Arabs in general.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Bryant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_R._McVeigh etc etc.

I wasn't suggesting that there is a higher incidence of clinical psychopaths amongst any race or nationality, merely that the way a society is has a bearing on how personality disorders manifest themselves. I think the damage to a child's mind can happen very early and the damage done by an abusive upbringing can be difficult or even impossible to repair by the age of say seven?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_Series

I wonder how being bombed and shot at affects the total damage to the child?

Perhaps you should ask the Israelis that question as it is equally valid. Of course any damage so done is evidently balanced by a decent education, family and community support and a shared set of values - as oppose to a victim culture, with a ready scapegoat based on ancient superstition in lieu of taking responsibility for one's actions or the wellbeing of dependants.

Thanks for pointing this out though.

Yes. Not just Palestinians in that 1%. Nor Arabs in general.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Bryant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_R._McVeigh etc etc.

I wasn't suggesting that there is a higher incidence of clinical psychopaths amongst any race or nationality, merely that the way a society is has a bearing on how personality disorders manifest themselves. I think the damage to a child's mind can happen very early and the damage done by an abusive upbringing can be difficult or even impossible to repair by the age of say seven?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_Series

I will be interested to see what happens if the uprising in Syria results in a similar number of casualties to Libya then the U.N would have difficulty not also intervening given the uncomfortable precedent sent in Libya.

P.S If the U.N are doing requests I would prefer the Syrian regime removed to the Libyan one.

Senseless murders. I do hope those found guilty receive quick and just punishment.

Out of curiosity, I looked up world intentional murder statistics to find that a person is more likely to get murdered in Thailand than in Palestine. In fact, you are 20% more likely to get murdered in the USA than in Palestine.

http://en.wikipedia....l_homicide_rate

If you included in that count all the civilian Palestinians, as murdereded [which is the case] not accidently killed by the IDF , then those figures would be very different.

You mean murdered by Hamas outright, or merely Hamas being criminally culpable for using civilians as human shields?

The two murderers from their actions and lack of remorse are clearly psychopaths. About 1% of the population has this personality defect, which does not always manifest itself in a well ordered society, but when children are indoctrinated with hatred and given a scapegoat to channel this onto you get the current situation where the psychopaths have to be fenced in. Indeed I'm pretty sure suicide bombers are groomed from those who show suceptability to suggestion - Mental disorder is indeed encouraged and actively channeled by Islamic fanatics.

Have we gone back in time to April 1st? When the road death toll over Songkran rivals that of a despot crushing a rebellion I think priorities need addressing here.

The O/T news article clearly states Iran was upgrading its missile defences for it's nuclear facilities. Such a precaution would not be necessary if the IAEA were allowed full access to confirm Iran was not trying to develop weapons capability. I suspect Ahmedinajad wants a war more than anything and any newsflow from Iran will be designed to encourage a preemptive strike on themselves rather than discourage it; Such reasoning may seem bizarre viewed from the standpoint of a secular democracy, but for an Islamic faschist holocaust denier mutually assured destruction is not the same deterrent as it was during the cold war.

Wonder if they had to upgrade Photoshop to deal with the upgraded missiles

http://www.mahalo.com/iran-fake-missile-photo/

If only the same could be said of their nuclear program.

The UN could try being concerned about the deaths their bombing in Libya is causing.

Does this mean that you have no concern or compassion for the Somalis dying off the shores of Arab countries that could render assistance?

Dead Arabs are only newsworthy if killed by the Israelis or the U.S, or at a stretch other Arabs who be linked to the interests of western Countries. But really if you have to flee to Yemen it just shows how desperate a situation you are facing.

Who killed the people here? Did you read the OP?

"The deadly May 2010 raid on the Gaza flotilla killed nine Turkish activists, causing global outrage for what some said was unnecessary violence. A United Nations Human Rights Council mission ruled in September that Israel used "totally unnecessary violence" and an "unacceptable level of brutality."

UNHRC Well what do you expect from a pig but a grunt?

48 Year emergency rule.

I note that Iran has been strangely quiet on this one.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/174634.html

According to Syrian security officials, foreign organizations provided the group with financial as well as military assistance to incite unrest in the country.

The head of the armed terrorist group, Anas al-Kanj, has confessed to receiving instructions "to incite people to protest, particularly outside the Ommayad Mosque in the capital, Damascus, and in the towns of Daraa, Latakieh and Banias."

He also confessed that he was ordered to use live ammunition and open fire on "protesters in order to sow disarray and lead people to believe that the security forces were shooting on the demonstrators."

According to al-Kanj, there were some other "cells" carrying out similar acts in the country.

They did however manage to put the unrest down to external conspiritors, just as they did their own internal unrest. Simply put Iran doesn't want it's principle arms smuggling route put in jeopardy.

This is what some of the people in this forum don't grasp.

And others understand it only too well. but their hatred for Israel in much more important to them than the fact that they make excuses for hateful, Islamic fanatics that they are well aware have no real interest in peace on any terms.

I highlighted two recent threads where two Imans were murdered for denouncing violence. There is a war going on within Islam where fundamentalist fanatics are trying to silence any voice of moderation as this does not suit their vision of global jihad. Still some posters would rather get their news from Iranian Press TV than any unbiased news source, these same posters are obsessed with 'justice' for Palestinians, who in reality have far more rights and live in far better conditions than those living throughout the majority of the middle east.

As PGPO advisor Datuk Mukhriz Mahathir from Malaysia said about the last flotilla and

Israel's actions then :-

Isn't he a Muslim from a Muslim country that Israelis are not even allowed to visit?

Very good! If they are looking for another song to adapt this should fit the bill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ket-ndpxhPg

Why the hell would they kidnap someone working for the Palestinian cause and then kill him? Unbelievable.

The Salafists are a particularly extreme virulently fanatical bunch, they have contempt for ALL life, and merely wanting human rights bestowed on the Palestinian people would have been just cause for his death in their eyes for not sharing their exact warped vision.

Sadly, expect to hear more of the Salafists as the Egyptian power struggle develops.