Steely Dan

Liberal PC dogma is causing a backlash, this is not just a French issue, but is merely reaching a flashpoint in France first. This is Paris,

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2010/August/Islamization-of-Paris-a-Warning-to-the-West/?WT.mc_id=EmbedNewsPlayer

The European liberal left who run European union policy are on collision course with French public opinion - which feels threatened by the rate of immigration from North Africa.

The French far right are already the largest party and if when they get in watch open border agreements get scrapped.

http://www.france24.com/en/20110306-french-far-right-champion-tops-opinion-poll

A shock poll showed far-right champion Marine Le Pen leading the race for the French presidency on Sunday, as incumbent Nicolas Sarkozy faced claims he is fuelling anti-Muslim sentiment.

An opinion poll conducted by Harris Interactive for Le Parisien newspaper put the National Front leader Le Pen's likely support in next year's vote at 23 percent, against 21 percent for the centre-right's Sarkozy

Ok, How about you, Hammered and the North Sudan government? I think South Sudan may not share your outrage in view of the genocide which resulted in their independence from the North.

I don't even know what you are trying to put across with this post. But it does seem quite off

However i can tell you that I don't feel rage so much as some other people. It is an emotion without benefit. One minute you are implying I am a peacenik and the next breath I am siding with a government that openly kills its own people. One could do well to make up ones mind and stick to it.

No contradiction old chap, Peaceniks is as peaceniks does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1tPpjd5ZRU

As for logistics, You don't need to keep your raptor in the sky as long if the perp has GPS attached to him or you have very good on the ground intelligence.

So what should replace red shirts in the textbooks? Perhaps fake reds, Cambodians or aliens? If Phua Thai are so confident of winning the election they won't have to wait long to re-write history, so why the hurry?

I don't want to intrude on private grief, especially as I can't see the grief staying private.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/feeling-depressed-27-depressing-statistics-about-us-economy-will-make-you-feel-even-worse

The sad truth is that the U.S. economy is in the midst of a long-term decline and it is coming apart at the seams. Right now the Obama administration and the Federal Reserve are attempting to "paper over" our economic problems with massive amounts of government debt and paper currency, but in the end it is not going to work. When you analyze the numbers objectively, it leads to the inescapable conclusion that we are headed for another Great Depression.

Ok, How about you, Hammered and the North Sudan government? I think South Sudan may not share your outrage in view of the genocide which resulted in their independence from the North.

Were are people getting thier intelligence from confirming that they were transporting chemical weapons ? I guess Mahmoud al-Mabhouh was packing a chemical weapon in his a&$e when he got whacked in Dubai also.

Don't be silly, packing anything in one's arse warrants the death sentence under Sharia. I do note how quickly you decide to believe the Sudanese account of events, even though they can't make their minds up whether it was a plane or a missile that carried out the hit. You also choose to believe an unofficial Israeli news source as it suits your agenda, though there has been no official confirmation on the part of Israel.

Hmmm, The mock indignation of you peaceniks is never a surprise. I suppose Israel should have passively stood by and waited for the first chemical weapon attacks on it's civilians then be investigated again by the UNHRC if they retaliate. The wounded party would hardly win any beauty contest either being responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands of Sudanese Christians. Still best let that one slide on the basis of my enemy's enemy being my friend. :jap:

I seriously doubt that I have any Palestinian friends. But think what you will if it makes you feel better.

"..But worse was to come and exactly a year ago, in April 2010, the campaign against him reached new heights, or rather, lows. It was led by the chairman of the South African Zionist Federation, Avrom Krengel, who tried to prevent Goldstone from participating in his grandson's bar mitzvah in Johannesburg since "Goldstone caused irreparable damage to the Jewish people as a whole."

The South African Zionist Federation threatened to picket outside the synagogue during the ceremony. Worse was the interference of South Africa's Chief Rabbi, Warren Goldstein, who chastised Goldstone for "doing greater damage to the State of Israel." Last February, Goldstone said that "Hamas perpetrated war crimes, but Israel did not," in an interview that was not broadcast, according to a 3 April report the website of Israel's Channel 2. It was not enough: the Israelis demanded much more."

Hmmm,

Chastised by the Chief Rabbi! Better that than incur the wrath of any middle eastern Immans, which would have no doubt resulted in a Fatwa being put on his head, if cartoon drawing is any guide.

Indeed I hope this brave chap receives no sanction for condemning the bias of the UNHRC - You know the body that commissioned the Goldstone report.

The trouble is austerity is not a vote winner so successive governments increase the money supply faster than the underlying rate of growth. Monetary union means a one interest rate fits all policy is adopted so within the union Countries can't lower their own interest rates to make themselves more competitive.

A bailout is a cop out and does not address underlying structural problems, indeed whenever the IMF are called in they always impose austerity measures and what amounts to stict Austrian school economics.

The U.S and U.K have no such problems in lowering interest rates and printing money. They therefore resort to a bastardization of Keynesian economics and covertly default on debts by QE. This may be viewed as a virtue now but I strongly believe it just puts off the final default and the frightening thing with the U.S is it's far too big to be bailed out.

It's already over.

http://www.politicalarticles.net/blog/2011/01/28/presidential-projections-12-reasons-obama-wins-in-2012/

Presidential Projections: 12 Reasons Obama Wins in 2012

I'm an atheist, but now you mention it I can see we are right on track for armagedon some time in 2012.

The cheek of it trying to stop terrorists smuggling chemical weapons to Hamas/Hizbollah.

http://www.debka.com/article/20821/

Late Tuesday, April 5, two passengers of a Hyundai Sonata car were killed in a mysterious attack by a missile that wrecked their car near Port Sudan. debkafile's counter-terror sources report that the attack, carried out by an unmanned aerial vehicle at Kalaneeb south of Port Said, targeted the Hamas representative in Sudan in charge of the vast Iranian weapons smuggling enterprise for the Gaza Strip via Egypt and the Suez Canal. His latest task was to organize the transfer to Port Sudan of a shipment of mustard and nerve gas purchased by Hamas and Hizballah representatives with Tehran's help from Libyan rebels in Benghazi.

The covert WMD consignment was destined for Gaza and Lebanon.

Iran complaining about human rights can only mean someone has beaten them to the hen house. There could even be war between Iran and Saudi Arabia, where the best outcome would be for both to lose.

http://www.debka.com/article/20817/

The accord reached between Saudi King Abdullah and the Bahraini monarch Hamas bin Isa Al Khalifa for the oil island's virtual annexation by Riyadh has so incensed Tehran that armed Iranian-Saudi clashes with the potential for all-out warfare may soon become unavoidable, debkafile's Iranian and Gulf sources estimate. Shiite-ruled Iraq would back Tehran in the first Shiite-Sunni collision to be sparked by the wave of unrest sweeping the Arab world - in contrast to the domestic discord raging in Libya and Yemen.

This kind of explains the reluctance to have mediators at the border.

Well you wouldn't want a neutral observer stepping on one.

"Palestinian security forces are becoming notorious for assaulting and intimidating journalists who are just trying to do their jobs," Stork said.

"Both the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza need to end these blatant attacks on free expression."

I guess a free press is very inconvenient when trying to cover up breeches of the Geneva convention or paint a propaganda picture which is uncritically lapped up by the liberal left.

Obama has been a dissapointment to me, but he has accomplished a lot and I don't even want to think where we would be if McCain/Palin would have won. Whoever his opponent will be they will likely have ties to the teabaggers, the worse movement to arise since McCarthy. The result will no doubt be determined by the amount of money spent to persuade the American sheeple who have not already made up their minds. If the economy improves and unemployment declines than Obama will win and so we can expect that the republicans will do everything in their power to prevent that from happening. Never underestimate the ability of American's to vote against their own self interest.

The electoral cycle is all important, you can clearly see it at work with the stock market, the idea being to create a boom to coincide with election day then pay down the resulting debt during the first two to three years after being re-elected. Thr trouble is the debt never actually gets paid off and increases until the burden of it collapses the ecomomy completely.

And they spent a fair bit of time trying to kill Australian troops in East Timor. And now we are training them? Brilliant.

'Anti-terror agency' Perhaps Australia supply the Auntie and Indonesia supply the Terror.

I think you were paying more attention than most people at the time to have even noticed that much (I happened to be paying attention too, as I'd started learning about Afghanistan sine the 80s for reasons of personal interest and tentative professional ambitions).

Taliban means "students" in Arabic -- but they were mostly former students of Pakistani madaariss (indoctrinated in Deobandi fundamentalist Islam), rather than what we'd think of in the west as a "student movement". And they almost certainly were in part motivated by a genuine desire to wipe out corruption and warlordism (though imposing their brand of theology and culture onto everything and everyone, like it or no,t was primary). Lord knows Afghanistan needed someone to do something. For that reason many people, in Afghanistan and out, thought as you did.

And you have good reason to worry about what happens next, IMO -- over the last couple months I have found myself in the awkward position of sympathizing with people who want self-determination and the end of oppression but fearing what will take place of the (unjust and unpalatable) status qou.

Mubarak? Autocratic, ruthless and often nasty ruler for life. But Egypt is the cradle of the Muslim Brotherhood and that ilk (the spiritual and political godfathers of al Qaeda et al) -- and they've been kept in check by Mubarak's boot on their neck.

Qaddafi? Even worse. But like other middle eastern tyrants, he's kept a lid on a nasty bunch of his own.

And yes, I believe there is every possibility that in both places they will wind up turning on us real soon (not to mention what they might have in store for their own people).

[but what really scares me and has for decades? Pakistan. But that's really off topic.]

EDITED FOR FORMAT

I agree with near enough every word you wrote. I would add that Iranian warships sailing up Suez tells you which way the wind is blowing regarding Egypt. We have a similar Muslim brotherhood vs incumbent despot situation in Syria too, but that's O/T.

What I did want to add is that I don't envy whoever gets to be U.S president;- Ancient Rome actually declined and fell due to a collapse in it's revenue (tax) base, I will take no pleasure if the same happens to the U.S as what followed Rome was the dark ages.

Remove duplicate post

I agree that the judgement should be overturned but only in an appeal based upon new evidence should that evidence satisfy the decision making body which originally included Goldstone who participated, as I understand it, in a leadership role.

Ah, superficially very reasonable, I note the Goldstone report has been re-badged the decision making body including Goldstone (The token Jew). So who commissioned the report, none other than the UN Human rights council, who's principle purpose seems to be to demonise Israel. The Bush adminsistration refused to even sit on said council due to it's bias.

So now do you expect Israel to wait for a body biased against it to review evidence for it's scapegoating fact finding report before any censure of Israel is lifted?

P.S It is intersting how you are even prepared to discard your Hamas friends if that's what it takes to keep mud stuck to Israel for a while longer.

Only got a few posts into this thread before it wore me out but I can't help but comment on this...

I never fail to be surprised at how widely believed that easily debunked canard is. It's late so rather than get into any lengthy (off topic) breakdown I'll keep it simple:

The Taliban didn't exist in 1978 -- and wouldn't for another 12 - 13 years. (Nor did the US fight in Afghanistan then, for that matter -- we didn't even get involved at all until almost 2 years after that, and we certainly weren't fighting.

Ok, my bad, but let's break thing down into a chain of cause and effect if you want to revisit this in detail.

December 1979 is when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, which they did to support a Marxist puppet government against Afghan Mujahideen. A proxy war followed with the U.S, U.K and Saudi Arabia amongst others supporting said Mujahideen. In 1989 the Soviets finally withdrew. By 1996 the Taliban had taken over large areas of Afghanistan and this was made indirectly possible due to the arming and supporting of militants fighting the Russians. Now post 9/11 it's the U.S and Nato who are fighting the same interminable seemingly unwinnable battle to control Afghanistan, no doubt to the considerable shadenfreude on the part of Russia.

Fast forward to 2011 and the U.S is again embroiled supporting an uprising in an Arab Country, Libya, who by numbers are the second largest contributor to the Taliban fighting against Nato in Afghanistan. The U.S also called for the overthrow of Mubarak in Egypt which has very likely resulted in a fledgling Islamic theocracy taking root there, so much for the billions of dollars aid thrown at Egypt over the years.

Returning to topic Obama's middle eastern policy has been a disaster, in addition to a theocracy in Egypt, civil war in Libya we have a big fall out with Saudi Arabia who feel sufficiently threatened by an emboldened (appeased) Iran that they took unilateral action in Bahrain and may yet come to blows with Iran seriously threatening much of the world's oil supply in the process.

This thread is about the Goldstone report.

Yes it is about Israel Urging the UN To Cancel Goldstone Report On Gaza.

Here the reasoning seems to be it should be canceled based on what Goldstone said well after the report.

I have read both items & while I understand what Goldstone is saying about how the report may have been different if the Israelis has cooperated more & also how they were shown not to be using humans as shields....

This premise to dismiss the whole report which is much more than those things mentioned seems silly.

The items mentioned by Goldstone now does not discount all the rest that went on .....on both sides.

The report as I mentioned before has many many documented instances/evidence/photos/videos that would not be changed no matter who cooperated or didn't cooperate.

There are things that need to be addressed & hopefully they will be.

Again I do not wish to quote sections but prefer instead for folks to read it themselves.

If someone is convicted by a criminal court and new evidence comes to light or irregularities are discovered in the court procedures then the conviction is generally overturned as being unsafe. Let it be remembered that there have been political consequences resulting from the report, such as Israeli politicians often fearing to travel abroad for fear of prosecution in Countries with universal jurisdiction, furthermore the report has been used as justification for boycotting Israeli education establishments.

Incredibly none of the above seems to have been applied to Hamas who carried out no investigation. I see the consequences of the report being sufficient cause for it being thrown out in it's entirity if that's the quickest way to reverse the consequences of the original unsound report.

how generous.............

Perhaps it's all they can afford with likelyhood of having to bail out Portugal and even Spain, though I guess they could get round this issue by simply printing money out of thin air.

Here is a good article from Culture wars, the last paragraph says it all in my oppinion.

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2011/04/violence_and_quran_burning.php

Let's be clear on one thing-- in no sense do I have to condone Jones' ideology, his hatred of Muslims, or his decision to burn a copy of their sacred text in order to hold the Afghani mullahs and rioters 100% responsible for what they did. They reacted violently in response to desecration of a symbol, a reaction to which Americans are not immune (as can be seen in the effort every couple of years to ban burning of the flag) but which for the most part we have rightly condemned as a fundamentally unacceptable response. Burning a sacred text is not shouting "Fire" falsely in a crowded theater; it is not incitement to violence; it is not a violation of anyone's property rights provided the copy you burn is your own. It is Constitutionally protected free speech in America, something that Afghanistan might want to try. There just might be fewer violent outbursts if their own government decided that the destruction of sacred symbols is not desirable but also doesn't justify attacking anyone or anything.

Exactly right. We can condemn Terry Jones for being an idiot and a bigot, and we should. But let us put the blame squarely where it belongs, on those who are insane enough to think that they can kill those who dare to insult their religion. Screw your religion and screw your feelings, if you believe you can kill in the name of god -- any god -- then you are an ignorant, barbaric, amoral thug.

Social security is the biggest problem.

The debt was run up during previous Republican administrations. Reagan is the man that nearly bankrupted the USA and it was Clinton that restored fiscal solvency. It was Bush with his inflated spending on defense and tax cuts for the super wealthy that buggered it up. The bail out program Obama continued started with Bush. He couldn't shut it down as it was in full swing.

The debt now absolutely dwarfs that of the Reagan administration, though a clever derivatives based hall of mirrors tries to disguise it. Granted successive administrations of all hues have just kicked the debt can down the road, but I think it's unrealistic to pin it all on the last administration, QE1 perhaps, but not QE2. And there's more to come. Here is Tim Geithner threatening destruction if the government cheque book is not expanded yet again by May 16th.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tim-geithner-releases-latest-mutual-assured-destruction-letter-says-debt-ceiling-be-breached

If Congress does not act by May 16, I will take all measures available to me to give Congress additional time to act and to protect the creditworthiness of the country....Defaulting on legal obligations of the United States would lead to sharply higher interest rates and borrowing costs, declining home values and reduced retirement savings for Americans. Default would cause a financial crisis potentially more severe than the crisis from which we are only now starting to recover....defaulting on legal obligations of the United States would lead to sharply higher interest rates and borrowing costs, declining home values and reduced retirement savings for Americans. Default would cause a financial crisis potentially more severe than the crisis from which we are only now starting to recover. Nor is it possible to avoid raising the debt limit by cutting spending or raising taxes. Because of the magnitude of past commitments by Congress, immediate cuts in spending or tax increases cannot make the necessary cash available. In order to avoid an increase in the debt limit, Congress would need to eliminate annual deficits immediately. " We are now, thusly, screwed.

Or to put into plain English, give us more money now so the inevitable collapse doesn't occur on our watch.