Steely Dan

"... "I can accept it because we have the same goal of getting rid of corruption and defending national integrity,"

Please compare Abhisit with Thaksin - anyway - 100,000 Reds and 5,000 yellows - "join" - good luck with that and then you have the "we just do what we are told... we don't questions" and therein lies the problem. Let's hope the other 60 million Thai's have more brains than this misguided lot.

Good luck Thailand - will someone turn the lights out on their way home?

Clowns to the left of me jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the middle with you. - Steeler's Wheel, though Abhisit should adopt it as his re-election slogan.

I shake my head in disbelief. When will Thai politics ever mature into a stable democracy? The red shirts and yellow shirts share the word 'democracy' in their names, but their actions are those of petulant children. I hope these lunatics remain a fringe group or else we have one of three possibilities ahead. Either 1) the government is ousted and we have ultra-nationalists starting a war with Cambodia. or 2) The government is ousted and a red-yellow power struggle degenerates into civil war or 3) The army conclude that Thailand is not yet ready for democracy and install military rule for however long it takes.

I would favour the third scenario personally.

I'm on Koh Chang, and here the bar owners pay the police to stay open late and and play loud annoying music until 3am when the law clearly says midnight!; or to look the other way if the farang bar owner doesn't have a work permit.

Would that be Koh Chang the marine park.. Meaning marine park where no alcohol is allowed to be sold

Perhaps they give a dispensation for Chang Lite.

Pheu Thai have approved Yingluck (Thaksin's sister)to be their next leader, which should tell you everything you need to know about the true political agenda of the Red shirts. They want their 'turn' at democracy, which merely means having their own paternal despot at the helm, which is nothing to do with social justice at all.

Thaksin hedging his bets. Does anything think this lady should be PM? Because that is what it means, if she is party leader.

No, it doesn't.

It could mean that, but it doesn't necessarily mean that.

Sister Yingluck as Party Leader and Brother Payup as PM would be the ultimate ticket.

Payup, How appropriate. how refreshing it is to see a Country where glove puppetry thrives as it does here.

The UK government like the U.S one is pursuing a neo-keynesian policy of defaulting on it's debts by stealth. In practical terms this means printing money (not the quantitative easing they refer to which is Orwellian doublespeak). Aside from printing money they will understate inflation figures to try and disguise their strategy, but currency exchange rates give the game away. This all said I do see some positives for the pound, not through the so called austerity measures, which are just window dressing, but through undeveloped oil and gas reserves near both Rockall and the Falkland Islands.

I would agree 55 would be a high watermark unless the UK government truly ditched Keynesian economic policies. Thailand has a lot of geographical factors and resources which should be very positive in the long run, providing political instability does not sink the Baht, which it hasn't done yet.

Whereas doctors, lawyers, pharmacists and so on require degrees or licences to operate, someone without a normal or proper education can be a better journalist than university graduates as long as he or she is guided by a right conscience.

But maybe cannot be trusted to vote the educated way.

There is very, very little press freedom in Thailand. The country is ranked in the 150's, out of 178 countries, by reporters without borders, which tracks such things. It is ranked 153, just below Azerbaijan, and Pakistan. Two spots about Saudi Arabia. if you see an investigative piece here, it is always about the international community, and NEVER about Thailand. When is the last time you have seen an investigative piece about the corruption commission, or the Prime Ministers office, or about vote buying, or anything else, that is the slightest bit inward looking? It just does not happen. And I wonder if the press is manipulated to that degree, do they also have the power to plant false info in the press, such as how well the tourism sector is doing right now, or what the economic growth numbers look like? Food for thought?

The standards of journalism in Thailand have steadily gone down the pan over the last decade.

I find both English Newspapers gutless and cowardly in their reporting. Buying a newspaper has become a disappointing experience and the thing is finished with minutes after buying.

Huge double page ads fill the pages, content is down and coverage is supefficial. Set aganst this the concern over independence and press freedom. It makes me laugh. Journalists may cry fredom but they never exercise it. If you want to read the facts, detail and full version of what took place you have to refer to the internet. And then it's on sites outside of Thailand as Thaivisa quakes in its shoes as does T k Dor.

The reality is being 153 rd ranked in the world means that self censorship exists. That is worse than actually having a censoring regime in power. It is the gutless journalists themselves that cow tow and accept this censorship.

I remember my blood boiling when some stupid Thai cow visited North Korea and reported in 'Horizon' as if she were visiting Disney World; 'Mickey followed us everywhere on our guided tour of citizens performing a flower parade in honour of the Great Leader.'

It was so bland and that was about a foreign country. Worse it was about a foreign country whose foreign policy didn't matter two hoots to thailand and yet there still was no honest, objective assessment.

Press Freedom? If they had what would they do with it? Worse they exorcise a Thai version of glossing over the truth, avoiding the controversial, never going anywhere near investigative journalism or righting wrongs, criticising the powers that be or simple recognising the truth when they stumble upon it.

Useless.

And the original OP article was probably censored before it ever went to press.

Amazing.

Surely having censorship, whether it be legislated or self imposed, is becoming less and less relevant with the internet rapidly replacing newspapers just as newspapers did town cryers before them. I would be more concerned about being ranked just above Saudi Arabia for press freedom if the authorities were doing a better job of controlling internet access, but they clearly aren't as it takes but minutes to get round any censorship attempts.

If and when, a contractual agreement is found to be in violation to governing laws, that particular written agreement or part therein is summarily considered unenforceable.

For an enjoining party to claim ignorance, actual or otherwise, would not enable such party to render unlawful contract, lawful and enforceable. It pays to consider other party's legal capability, responsibility and liability before entering into any contractual and binding agreement, even among good intention friends and relatives.

It appears.... " thy days are numbered...."

The latest Thai national slogan is....

เรา รัก ในหลวง ที่สุด (we love our King the most)

และ เรา หวง แผ่นดิน ที่สุด ( and we are most zealous about our land)

Perhaps, a change of govt and policy toward more transparency and power and ensuing responsibility.... is looming at the horizon, again.... just another hope eternal.

Many long-stay farang also hope eternally that Thailand national policy would also include prosecution, confiscation, fine and jail term

for each and every officer and minister found guilty by the court of law. Just admonishing a proven guilty officer or minister to a new post or new geographical area.... just does not seem prudent or severe enough deterrent any longer; currently, there seem to be no more dishonor or shame in breaking any law of the land for personal gain.... imho.

Enforceable by whom exactly? We are dealing with an international dispute which has a jurisdiction higher than the national courts of either Thailand or Cambodia. I thought the international courts had already ruled on the matter, though I will grant you that this does not really matter if Thailand take unilateral action.

So what does Thailand do? 1) Do they march into disputed territory with their army and risk a border war, 2) or attempt to resolve things through diplomacy? Or perhaps 3) instead let loose cannon ultra-nationalists take matters into their own hands which will likely revert back to 1 or 2.

This little spat over a pile of stones is of course proxy for the horse trading which will happen with the maritime border and the oil/gas resources which are dependent on this. I hope option 2 is pursued here because if Thailand and Cambodia come to blows over oil then if I was the Cambodian leader I would get straight on the blower to Vietnam offering them joint development rights in exchange for a mutual defense pact.

P.S My visa is very much in order, but that is an issue solely under Thai jurisdiction.

Please place your bets!

My money goes on a renewed PAD uprising just before elections.

and of course there after.

monkfish, You are the winner!

The yellowshirts are meeting en mass on January 25, 2011 to demand that Apisit's govt:

1--To withdraw from any participation in JBC to redefine Thailand territory to enrich the Camb.

2--To denounce and rescind any and all joint effort between Thailand and Camb in reference to PraVeHarn temple project and committee

3--To vacate and nullify MOU and all related matters on grounds that Camb repeatedly failed to follow the intents of the MOU by repeatedly encroaching intentionally into Thai territory and sovereignty culminating in illegally arresting the 7 Thai citizen on Thai territory; therefore,

To null and void MOU in view that it was also unconstitutionally drafted and negotiated without first receiving rectification and approval from the full House members. The MOU in question was concocted and negotiated by some ill informed and ill intended govt officials without first seeking and receiving rectification and approval of the House. Therefore, the MOU and all its subsequent agreements are therefore null and void, in view that the Thai Constitution demands that any agreement between and among nations involving Thailand must first seek rectification and approval from the House, which the MOU between Thailand and Camb ignored and failed to comply, among others.

If the PM Apisit and his govt fail to protect Thailand territorial and her interest, or

to choose to do nothing to protect Thailand's interest et all,

then per Apisit's own proclamation last month that as a premiere if he fails to protect Thailand and her interests,

then he would be a traitor and would have no place in Thailand....

the yellowshirts are now demanding that if he fails to protect Thailand territory and interest, then Apisit should honor his own words quickly....

Whilst I was 100% behind Abhisit when the Reds held Bangkok hostage, this bit of PAD nonsense has to be seen for what it is;- Looking from a Cambodian perspective are they supposed to be constitutional experts in Thai law and are they supposed to assume that negotiating an agreement with the then Thai prime minister would be void due to him exceeding his authority.

P.S I'm not arguing that Thaksin did not exceed his authority, but that you can't retroactively tear up an agreement with a third party after the fact.

I understand your sentiments, but the fact remains that the majority on here are much older than 16, also you missed out sending an sms while doing number 1,2, and 4, as yet we don't know about number 3.

I am still amazed that some people are trying to justify her actions, or trying to deflect blame, the fact is 9 people are dead because she drove a car, while unlicensed, while driving too fast,, while not insured so lets try and focus on her actions rather than trying to focus on imaginary situations involving other people and when they drive. She has already done this so lets focus on her and what her punishment should be,

I would ask that every time you think about this girl and empathize with her I would like you to think about the families of 9 people that are suffering because of this girls reckless, selfish behaviour, then maybe some can see why there is this witch hunt when it started to become clear that this was going to be swept under the carpet, the witch hunt has been successful in forcing the authorities to dealing with this (although no doubt she will still walk away with the minimum of sentence).

If the girl was indeed sending an SMS or indeed using a phone without a headset that too would be imho wickedly reckless and deserving of severe punishment. Furthermore in my opinion being in charge of a potentially lethal weapon such as a car should mean you assume adult responsibilities in doing so.

However, I think it wrong to retroactively punish the girl more than the law allows, though future legislation would perhaps be appropriate. Yes I agree that the 'witch hunt' appears to be making it more difficult to bury the case, however don't count your chickens on that one either. I await developments with interest and of course I do empathize with the bereaved in this tragedy.

So the girl will be sent to a home pending trial. All well and good, and thus far no deviation from procedure. If the girl is indeed legally a minor then I suspect her punishment will be far too lenient for many, but it is justice not revenge that is needed here.

As for the many internet vigilantes I trust that in arriving at your judgment you find yourselves nowhere on the following list.

1) Driving without a valid Thai or current international license.

2) Driving a taxed and tested vehicle which has been insured at least to the minimum standards required by law.

3) Driving while drunk or with judgment impaired through drugs.

4) Driving too fast while tailgating the car in front and flashing lights to bully them into moving over.

If you EVER found yourself on the above list there is a chance that some time in your life you might have ended up in the same predicament as the girl.

so you don't want anyone driving a vehicle that has been taxed, tested and insured??

Sorry my bad, should read Driving an untaxed, untested and uninsured vehicle.

So the girl will be sent to a home pending trial. All well and good, and thus far no deviation from procedure. If the girl is indeed legally a minor then I suspect her punishment will be far too lenient for many, but it is justice not revenge that is needed here.

As for the many internet vigilantes I trust that in arriving at your judgment you find yourselves nowhere on the following list.

1) Driving without a valid Thai or current international license.

2) Driving a taxed and tested vehicle which has been insured at least to the minimum standards required by law.

3) Driving while drunk or with judgment impaired through drugs.

4) Driving too fast while tailgating the car in front and flashing lights to bully them into moving over.

If you EVER found yourself on the above list there is a chance that some time in your life you might have ended up in the same predicament as the girl.

I hadn't forgotten about this sad case, and some of the others:

Two Brits shot and killed by a cop in Kanchanaburi

The Thai lady had her arm lopped off with a machete on a hellish motorcycle ride, by a Thai cop.

Regarding those three cases and others, I wonder whether any of the cops were found guilty in a court, and if so, if they suffered the same penalties that you or I would suffer if we were caught doing such dastardly things. Some might say police (and others in position of authority) should suffer more dire consequences, as they're the ones paid and trained to protect us. It's a sick irony that Thaksin was trained as a policeman, yet he's a poster boy for causing untold harm and abuse to his fellow Thais.

Ohhhhhhhhhh dear ere we go again ! sick aint it.

This is the whole point. You can play devil's advocate giving convoluted reasoning as to why any particular legal case seems to drag on. Perhaps in isolation procedural matters such as court schedules, securing witness testimony, or forensic evidence going missing could explain a case never reaching resolution. But when you multiply this several hundred fold encompassing such cases as Kanchanaburi, Kirsty Jones' murder, the death of two women in a guest house in Ko Phi Phi, the Saudi gems case etc etc then you reach an inescapable conclusion - The Thai judicial system can be derailed almost at will by even middle ranking individuals if they decide it's in their interests to do so.

Unfortunately there is zero impetus for this to change when foreign consular and embassy activity seems to be almost entirely devoted to boosting trade so no external sanction ever threatens the status quo. Same Same as they say.

Yesterday morning on the way to work in Phuket, a minivan full of people flew past me, I was doing 100 kph and it had just been raining lightly. Came up on this van a few minutes later upside down in the ditch, flattened and smoking. Very serious looking accident. Will these people never learn. It makes me question the intelligence of people here!

... low intelligence is a valid question pmgthailand ... it could explain much of what we see here and try to rationalize as "translation problems", or "cultural differences".

... low intelligence quotients (IQs) are a chronic national health problem Thailand (due to nationwide lack of dietary iodine, necessary for brain development) ... it is long known by the UN, but only recently getting Thai government's attention ... the Thai Ministry of Health documented and published the results of their own nationwide, statistically relevant surveys:

1. Thai average IQ is 91;
2. 8.5% of Thais tested scored at or below 70 (mentally retarded); in areas of the north, the degree of mental retardation soared as high as 16.5% of the population;
3. Approximately 16.5% of the Thai population scores between 70 and 75.

... the sickening conclusion is that fully 25% of the Thai population is either mentally retarded, or within 5 points of mentally retarded.

... no amount of education can solve for that ... at low IQ levels, basic common judgment is not possible... perhaps that is why many perceive Thailand as a nation of children.

Thank you for giving me a theoretical basis for what I suppressed for fear of being racist. Yes! There are loads of retards in the North. I put it down to the education system, but there had to be more to it than that - I will now ask my wife about her childhood diet as she is a doctor and is a very smart cookie.

I rather think the evidence of the two independent witnesses and Dr.Pornthips evidence that Leo was shot while on the ground makes all the negative comments about Carly Reisig statements rather insignificant or did you not understand this point?

Mr. Drummond, you can think what you want, but the law is the law. The chorus in TVF is that the law must prevail and that if this was in the west there would have been swift justice. Wrong. Dr. Pornthip cannot be considered a reliable expert. Her conduct in the bomb detector fiasco is responsible for that. If one wanted to apply western rules, then every case that Dr. Pornthip opined upon could now be contested and questioned. (I have been consistent in that opinion ever since the bomb detector crisis arose and made the statement at the time that every opinion Dr. Pornthip ever gave could be invalidated. That's how it works in pathology and the law.) One need look no further than Mr. Del Pinto's home country of Canada to see what happens when a pathologist bungles. Look up the pathologist Dr. Charles Smith and see what impact it had on the court system. One can therefore not rely on evidence that comes from a source that can be considered flawed.

Describing Carly Reisig's statements as insignificant, is a cute and convenient way of dismissing the fact that much of the information she provided was inaccurate and misleading. When a witness provides evidence like that, the witness testimony is dismissed in its whole, even if there are some valid aspects. Thailand allows for alot more wiggle room though, so the Reisig tale might be considered. Your overlook the fact that the Del Pinto case was neither heard nor adjudicated upon. The accused had legal rights, even if people disagree. The Del Pinto case had and still has reasonable doubt. Fortunately, the courts do not convict on the speculation of ThaiVisa experts or on Andrew Drummond's opinions. There are a great many people who love Thailand because of its laissez faire attitude on some issues. Well, hand in hand with that comes people like Sgt. Uthai.

I do not dispute that Sgt. Uthai may have had a questionable history. That then speaks to the big question: Why was he on the street with a badge and a gun? why didn't his commanding officer(s) address the allegations of drinking while on duty? Why didn't Dr. Pornthip raise these questions? Maybe Sgt. Uthai is guilty of the crime, but you and the other let's hang Sgt. Uthai are no better than the locals that seek to blame one person for a serious event that involves many.

Actually you do not have to be a forensic pathologist to know how Leo was shot. All you need to do is look at the x-rays and see the entrance and exit wounds to know that he was shot from above. Hence the GT200 business is irrelevant. As you point out the only evidence from Carly Reisig which is significant is what she told the court and that was quite detailed and specific. So what she told journalists as different times is totally irrelevant to the result of the case. The 'chorus' on Thaivisa has perhaps changed because people are now more aware of the facts. The fact that the court has not been able to adjudicate whether Uthai was on duty or not speaks volumes.

And despite Geriatrikid's attempt at obfuscation the fact remains that if the Thai courts had got their act together quicker there would have been one less murder victim. Perhaps the stonewalling and delaying tactics by the Pai police chief should make him an accessory to the second murder - but I suppose that would be a step to far when living in an accountability vacuum like Thailand.

I find it odd, that the "bomb" has been described so quickly and a cute little illustration has even been provided. The Thai police must certainly have some cutting edge technology and great expertise since they have delivered a decisive conclusion in a shorter time period than other more experienced agencies do. Yes, the damage may be consistent with a bomb. However, a complete reliable conclusion takes weeks even where there is a lot of evidence. Samples have to be taken and analyzed and that takes time. It doesn't matter who it is, the determining factor is time.

This is quite an impressive feat. looks like Thailand is now the only country in the world that can analyze data from an incident like this in near real time. Quite an accomplishment.

Perhaps it was a fake bomb.

Som nam na.

From the land of fake reds we now have fake call centers. :jap:

The Thai police seem to have a knack for capturing the gofers and the big boys escape, abscond, retreat to Cambodia, England, etc. The DEA is probably comparing the similarity between the BIB and the Federales of Mexico after this and other operations here. The DEA may have enough experience/insight to quickly see through fairy tales , so often presented.

Funny you should mention Mexico, there is a classic example of what happens when criminals actively collaborate with the police. Note also how some drug gang leaders were army chiefs who defected. Thailand take a glimse at a possible future scenario, do you want this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11174174

As I've observed before the Thai 'police' are a great example of what's known as agency capture where the group who are supposed to be being controlled take over control of their supposed controllers - In this case criminal mafia have taken over the police.

I guess he was planning on getting wired as oppose to stoned.

Thanks for your help everyone. A consolidated shipment sounds the way to go, the next challenge is to find any carbon based lifeform here who can agree a tariff rate and stick to it.

I am looking for a way of importing stained glass sheets from the U.S to Thailand. Stained glass is a hobby of mine and previously I have used USPS to ship by air, but I'm looking for a cheaper method to ship larger amounts of glass. Can anybody suggest a shipping agent who currently ships sea freight to Thailand from the U.S?

Hmm, So many red herrings here. True the Saudi regime is about as unappealing as a victim ever can be, but this was not just the theft of valuables from some rich Saudi prince but also involves the murder of three Saudi nationals, who were diplomatic staff to boot. It is also a red herring to say this is a partizan democrat vs PTP issue, a real investigation would likely prove hideously embarassing to both political parties. The issue is one of rule of law and governance, both of which put Thailand in the same league as Nigeria - something is rotten to the core and it permeates from the top through all strata of society.

Here is a link to make a point. It concerns the Thai policeman in Pai accused of murdering a Canadian three years ago. After the usual whitewash the accused resumed active duty where he went about intimidating witnesses. Fast forward to today when the news comes out that he just murdered his pregnant wife of two weeks.

Contempt for the rule of law and arrogance to think that stonewalling is the answer in these cases puts Thailand in a very bad light indeed - However embarassing this case is a proper investigation needs to be carried out and not to hide behind any statute of limitations.

This Saudi guy's basically put in a nutshell the entire Thai authority's playbook on 'How To Deflect Criticism or Unwanted Attention'.

In general terms, the procedure is:

1) Give a contrived explanation involving issues the complainant isn't/can't be aware of, preferably involving the deliberate use of disengenious misinterperetations of obscure laws/guidelines.

2) Repeat with alternative contrivances until complainant is satisfied or sufficiently baffled into inaction.

3) Claim that you have given sufficient reasons/responses to the point where it now looks like the complainant is being obtuse and stubborn in the continued pursuit of truth/justice.

4) Claim the complainant has been misinformed so that he /she doesn't even know what they're talking about.

5) Claim the complainant just doesn't understand the culture/laws/issues at hand.

And by 'Thai Authority', I mean any kind of authority in this country at whatever level from the government down to the people who issue driving licenses.

Well before the end of this procedure, the complainant has usually given up. The interesting thing about this case is that the complainant very clearly isn't giving up. This is is one relationship that isn't going to be mended any time soon.

Excellent summary, should be made into a flow chart and included in the rough guide. The only way to break out of the loop is to die of old age or separate the facts from the gordian knot of obfuscation and present these publicly.

I suspect we come then to the following.

6) Having been shown up by points 1-5 being seen as delaying tactics the only thing which remains is the irrational tantrum which comes with losing face. This is delightfully circular in it's own right as by claiming to have suffered an ad-hominim attack the 'victim' launches similar attacks themselves and refuses to even engage in any further discusions about the original issue.

The only way to break out of this second loop is to have clout which you can and are prepared to use. Face is not the sacrosanct element of the Thai culture it's portrayed as. The quick capitulation to the Japanese in WWII or the horse trading land for independance with colonial powers proves this - However I suspect we will soon go to item 6 on the list and to break out of that the Saudi's will need to block oil exports to Thailand, something they have failed to do for 20 years.