Steely Dan

A third party mediator is a disaster if your true agenda is to prevent negotiations getting anywhere because a third partty can and will record answers they were given and a tissue of mistruths and obstruction will soon unravel. Cambodia are completely correct that bilateral negotiations will not work because in those circumstances the Thais won't actually negotiate but stall indefinately instead.

This is getting serious, perhaps it would be an idea to enlist the help of a feng shui expert. :jap:

The fact that the fourth body was carried down a fire escape on a stretcher and across the closed swimming pool area and into a waiting ambulance suggests more of an intention to hush things up than seal the site pending forensic investigation.

I am curious how the Thais plan to assess the quality of foreigners; should be an interesting evolution

Perhaps a 'quality' tourist is one who actually makes it back for the return trip more or less in one piece as oppose to spontaneously dying as some Chiangmai hotel guests have tended to do recently.

Nothing to see here, please enjoy the musaq and ignore the signwriters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoSok_4wOVg

I know this will sound insensitive, but I found myself laughing out loud while reading the report. 'Secretly died' Well there's an unfortunate turn of phrase. Then we have the body being smuggled down the stairwell and across the pool into a waiting ambulance, this is indeed high farce worthy of pantomime.

On a more serious note we know that the Thai police will be incapable and probably unwilling to investigate after no doubt a pu yaay has paid then a seriously large administration fee to file this case as closed. I imagine the sign writers are busy re-badging the hotel at this moment - nothing to see here, anyone for Elephant trecking?

'

The Syrian representative, without irony, spoke of the unique experience of democracy in Libya and the growth and development of human rights there. Saudi Arabia strongly praised Libya’s interest in “promoting and protecting human rights.” North Korea and Cuba glowingly endorsed Libya’s efforts and “significant achievements” in human rights[/i].

RIP UN

Of course Syria know all about human rights especially for their own citizens in light of the estimated 17,000-40,000 killed by president Assad's pop in violently stamping out a rebellion in the city of Hama in 1982, lucky the HRC was only formed in 2006 or with form like that their election would have been a breeze.

Very good! I see another 'Not the Nation' headline has sneaked in here, either that or the PAD have a total blindspot when it comes to irony.

In the UK the police are never armed in riot situations and they certainly don't deploy the army to clean up a crowd of what was peaceful demonstrators having a sit in. 9 journalists were shot and 2 killed for which the responsibility was put on the Thai military but that was later over turned due to military pressure. You say 15 army/police were killed but all baring firearms but the vast majority of civilians killed at that time were found to be unarmed as were the 1800 injured. What the Thai government ordered on that day was no better than recent happenings in the middle east as you don't pit the might of your military force with AK-47s and M-16s to shoot indiscriminately at civilians hurling rocks and fireworks. The military claimed to have found an arms cash within the Redshirt compound but who's to say it wasn't planted? Even if it was the Redshirt arsenal the quantity of firearms and ammunition claimed to be found was not enough to be a major threat to the Thai armed forces, their firepower, their body armor nor their armored vehicles so the response was completely disproportionate. If that had happened in London government and military heads would role and a few of them would be serving lengthy prison sentences.

In the UK demonstrators are not normally seeded with black clad paramillitary guards carrying sniper rifles. The UK police are also well trained in crowd control which is certainly not the case in Thailand where a demotivated mafia police would have dragged their feet or refused to carry out orders seeing as a large number of them still have allegience to Thaksin.

You can try to spin the same lies and distortions till you are blue in the face but the consensus of oppinion is that the loss of life amongst the demonstrators was precisely what their malignent puppeteer had hoped for, and lest we forget 90 deaths was a mere drop in the ocean compared to Khun Thaksin's war on drugs.

Thailand is making it clear to Cambodia and the rest of the world that they donot go by rules. They do what they want, as they want ,when they want and there is no need to argue they willnot listen to reason.

They willnot quit till they wear everyone down and get their way. They are single minded and are impossible to deal with. Reminds me of a debate course I once took. The course principle was, never debate, only deny and refuse and stop all progress till others just give up. Cambodias only real chance is a war plain and simple. Which is something I would hate to see happen.

Bullseye! You have it in one. No explicit ceasefire, no mediation, no UNESCO inspection. If you try to negotiate you end up in a Kafkaesque infinite loop which only ends when everyone has given up to Thailand's view, died of old age or reached the statute of limitations. The Saudis know this only too well attempting to have stolen royal jewellery returned as do the relatives of countless foreigners murdered in Thailand.

I do hope Cambodia unilaterally plough ahead with developing the temple, otherwise it may double it's age before it finally becomes a tourist attraction.

What's the point having neutral observers if you won't allow them free reign to observe? And if the damage to the temple is superficial as Thailand claim then what is the objection to allowing UNESCO to at least inspect the site?

It would seem that after bending over backwards in accomodating the colonial French and then aquiescing to the ICJ decision without so much as an appeal Thailand are now in bellicose mood decades too late.

Pheu Thai are a pathetic excuse for a political party. Is it too much to ask for them to put together a manifesto rather that come up with these pointless censure debates, or can't they even manage that without the exiled glove puppeteer writing one out for them.

A minefield spanning Somali waters should do the trick.

"In order to perpetuate the occupation, Israeli forces have deprived their unwilling subjects of basic human rights. No objective person could personally observe existing conditions in the West Bank and dispute these statements."

Former US President Jimmy Carter

I was never a big Carter fan but I have no reason to believe he is simply anti-semetic nor do I believe he is just crazy.

In keeping with UG's tough standards on reputable sources, I offer a US president with much history with this struggle as a reputable source.

I wonder what Carter thought about the consistent denial of basic human rights within the arab world, was he as vociferous in condemning such abuses I wonder? This is standard fayre amongst liberal appologists though who never miss an opportunity to condemn anything Israel does whilst systematically ignoring other far more serious abuses perpetrated by arab on arab, perhaps because doing so would contradict their thesis blaming Israel for every wrong in the arab world.

Here is an article from an Israeli arab exercising freedom of speech to point this out.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/6732355/the-double-standard.thtml

I guess G.W must be afraid something will leak out from the bush telegraph.

Does this mean that the buxom Ukranian nurse also gets frozen. I referring to the one who according to wikileaks accompanies Gadaffi everywhere.

From the frying pan in to the flame. This is the sort of pressure release that await people in Arab countries - which trade real democracy for icon worship. Same scenario in Thailand and the hero worship of Thaksin - which led to the same sort of scenarios Arab countries are having now. It's a bad mix: lack of real democracy coupled with peoples' aching compulsion to kowtow to a male hero figure. That's why most SE Asia, Arab and Latin American countries have been rife with abusive power-tripping leaders - and is why their demise always ends ugly.

Out of the ashes, more of the same will rise: Men with massive egos coupled with draconian suppression of meaningful dialogue - will continue to crop up in all those regions - until people build and maintain real democratic institutions.

.....just wait until the Saudis revolt - then we'll see some real fireworks.

Just hope the biggest ugliest icon of them all doesn't replace the existing ones, I'm referring to the one who it is forbidden to draw.

'National emergency ' - Sounds like a job for international rescue.

Veera and the yellows/nationalists, like the reds hoped this year to push the army and government in a particular direction ahead of any election. The army had a little fight with the Cambodians and now it is finished and things have to be tidied up. These guys have no intention of being incarcerated long-term as heroes for the cause and he will most likely have been told to do the right thing or be abandoned to his fate. That they pushed the red agenda off the front page is about the only success they can claim and the reds are not amused as they wish to be considered the only show in town. Well they aren't. There are two sets of clowns.

Or perhaps one set of clowns and one set of jokers.

Dont know how much that will help them.

If what I read is correct the Cambodian king has little or no power and is only there with the blessing of Hun Sen and must do as he is told.

However it could be a way out for Hun Sen if he really dosent want to keep them and would lose face letting them go any other way.

Actually Veera may be more valuable to Cambodia if released. It would seem clumsy to use Veera's incarceration as a bargaining chip with Thailand, especially if it was perceived to be so to any outside mediators. Perhaps better to release Veera as it would in effect be taking the moral high ground and would also make PAD look pretty stupid trying to remove Veera's counsel should the legal advice of the counsel secure Veera's release. PAD would no doubt conclude a pardon was an admission of no sovereignty over the area, but if Veera appeals to the Cambodian sovereign he would tacitly be accepting Cambodian sovereignty over the disputed land.

Quite a funny storm in a teacup this pandering to the same unsavoury nationalistic prejudices that the PAD are so obviously courting. It does explain how Abhisit seems to conduct himself with a degree of dignity and never seems to personally get tarred with the corruption brush. Perhaps if Abhisit is indeed British then I can get to vote in the next Thai elections due to my British citizenship.

In the picture Thaksin has the same insane expression that Kenneth Williams had. As for solving Thailand's 'economic woes' how about desisting from blocking the centre of Bangkok for months and engaging in mass arson when confronted.

I see yet another inaccurately phrased Nation headline. Better to use 'asked' or 'requested to' rather than 'told' in reference to the Thai government's communications with UNESCO. Told of course implies authority in the matter, which is not the case.

Not sure how many people will read this, but here's my two baht worth:

It will be a huge mistake for any western country to interfere in the north African/middle east unrest - it will ultimately lead to resent and (justified) suspicion of motives.

This is an opportunity for the Egyptian people to show their support for their Libyan neighbours and send their army in to liberate Tripoli. I am pretty sure the Libyan army will shrink away from a real threat and Gadaffi will be vanquished. Once order has been restored, the Egyptians pull out and suddenly there is a clear message to all these despots - listen to your people; use force on them and we will intervene (and by the way, our Libyan, Tunisian allies will join us)...

Gadaffi has already given the go-ahead for foreign soldiers to fight on Libyan soil, so I see no need for six months deliberation by UN, EU, USA, NATO before a resolution is passed. Invade now Egypt!

Western powers are already complicit in the length of tenure enjoyed by various middle eastern despots, and history does tend to show that every time we intervene it's for an alterior motive, namely oil. A shocking example of how little the west really cares is demonstrated by the Hama massacre; In 1982 president Assad of Syria violently put down a rebellion in the city of Hama, the death toll was estimated between 17,000 and 40,000. Syria has no oil. I'm not sure how many hundreds have already died in Libya but I think outside intervention would be forthcoming before we get anywhere near the Hama level.

Incidentally I would love nothing better than for Gaddafi to stand trial for his crimes though preferably in Libya rather than the Hague.

I am very sorry to intrude, but you are so wrong on this one.

Syria does have Oil, quite a lot of it actually, why else would the likes of Shell and countless other OC's be imbedded in Damascus.

There has been much more exploration in Iraq, hence more proven reserves. But look at Iraqi Kurdistan.....loads of oil right on the border with Syria.

I would be curious to know just how much oil Syria was thought to have back in 1982 when the Hama massacre occured. As the world was in a recession early 80's I doubt peak oil was even a consideration then and my point remains that Syria was not deemed important then.

Why does the USA have to intervene and why do you expect the USA to intervene? The Europeans are the ones purchasing the oil. The Europeans were the ones selling weapons and expensive commercial goods.

There is nothing here that warrants anything more than evacuation support for US nationals. The US citizens that chose to work in a country that has a leader responsible for the murder of US nationals should not expect US troops to die on their behalf. Other westerners that went to Libya, a nation with a lengthy history of human rights abuses, did so for their own personal benefit. They wanted the big fat pay cheques and the tax benefits. They should call their own countries. Libya is of limited strategic interest to the USA at this time. It is the EU that has the worries of African illegal refugees and that has to make nice with North Africa. Let the EU crap its pants and assume the burden of peacekeeping.

The Thai government chose to support Libya. Let the Thai government deal with its decisions.

Whilst I agree with you about Europe being more culpable than the U.S with regards to Libya I would suggest that he who lives in glass houses should not throw stones. I am of course referring to the consistent U.S stance of propping up tyrants and despots to further her own ends. From the Shah of Iran to the Saud dynasty the U.S fingerprints are all over the place and when Saudi Arabia blows up, as one day it surely will I just hope you have a republican in charge instead of the dithering Obamatron or the whole world will go down the plug hole.