anon676545345

Now that's an entirely new one.. India, China and Russia are backward countries with a population whos vast majority are poorly educated who have only recently had access to money

Please don't twist my words. The point I made was that to store value for a long time the vast majority of people in those countries had to choose between money or precious metals. They didn't have the choice of equity or bond markets.

Anyway I prefer to believe the version that the reason so many Asians choose to buy physical gold as a vehicle in which to store their wealth is because so many of them have little trust in the value of paper money

But the choice isn't just between money in the bank (or under the bed) or gold. And there are much better investments available for long term growth and income than either of them. The majority of peoplein Asia and elsewhere who invest primarily in gold are simply ignorant of the better alternatives.

Edit: fixed quoting

" The majority of people in Asia and elsewhere who invest primarily in gold are simply ignorant of the better alternatives."

And many people everywhere who advocate investing in equities right now are simply ignorant of the mindset of the real experts and how they feel about stock-markets that have been driven virtually in a straight line up-not on the back of fundamentals but solely on the back of money printing by governments.

Example -Seth Klarman of the Baupost Group manages $28.1 billion in assets but is returning money to investors because of a lack of investment opportunities .This would be only the second time Baupost will be returning money to investors in the Boston-based investment firm’s 31-year history.

He says “ If the economy is so fragile that the government cannot allow failure, then we are indeed close to collapse “

One of the driving factors behind the run up in equities has been companies taking advantage of cheap liquidity and utilizing it to fund share buy backs, less shares in issue equates to higher prices. As a rough guide the US 10year and 3month yield curve indicator has been a good guide on when to exit equities, or wait till the people who were buying gold in 2011 start buying stocks.

If it has to be Thailand I'd keep the money in my home currency and wait, they're about to attempt to boost growth through government funded mega projects which will probably work in the short term at the minute national debt is at 34% which is low. But they're about to start large scale investment at the begining of a global interest rate rising cycle. It's where the growth is going to come from after the government funded projects are finished, companies took advantage of the cheap liquidity during the finantial crisis and invested in emerging markets that's not likly to continue.

I'd rather be invested in US stocks with a decent dividend, US companies have taken advantage of the cheap liquidity to partake in share buy backs which has already pushed the S&P to all time highs. The developement of US shale oil resources has already resulted in cheap gas and will give the US manufacturing industry a big advantage in the future, US companies have already started reshoring so continued investment from the US into emerging markets is unlikley.

Remember the last time the British people were helpless in the face of Tony Blair tyranny . . .

Many of my friends went on that march, some of them wealthy business leaders. I would have gone but was in LOS.

It's time for Muslims to do do the same regarding ISIS, Jihad and radicalization.

That war was about oil but not Iraqi oil as most think the US was only accounting for 19% of Iraqi oil exports in 2012 and that figure is falling as the US proceeds towards energy independence, besides who in the US would get rich from importing Iraqi oil? Not as many as would clean up from the development of US shale oil resources. The recovery costs of shale oil during the production phase were estimated at $70-$95 per barrel which falls to $30 - $40 per barrel during recovery phase. Before the invasion of Iraq oil was roughly $35 per barrel making these resources un-economical to recover, since the invasion oil has averaged over $100 per barrel and the US has been on full steam developing shale oil.

Unfortunately the probably deliberate mismanaging of the conflict in Iraq has resulted in ISIS and the situation with radical Islam is now a lot more serious than it was in 2002, a few guys in the US probably made a hell of a lot of money but they've let a rather fanatical genie out of the bottle.

I'm not to keen on any religion hinging a lifestyle on what someone wrote in a book a couple of thousand years ago that is supposed to represent what some guy who said he was a messenger from god said seems strange to me. As far as I can see all religions seem to cover the same precepts of morality one would think that whilst thousands of people were in the process of killing each other over who has the most peaceful religion or which version of a similar book was correct the all knowing almighty might come down and say listen you absolute retards can you stop raping and murdering each other and blaming it on me. Instead strangely enough the side with the most resources, weapons and men seems to win so obviously god must like the people with the most guns best.

I prefer being free not to have to repeatedly read a disinteresting version of ancient propaganda or listen to some nutter give his interpretation of the contents, I like living in a culture where women can get an education, where women can go out in short skirts without getting stoned to death, where I can go out and enjoy a cold alcoholic beverage and chat up the women in short skirts, then the next day enjoy a bacon sandwich. A society where two consenting gentlemen can bugger the sh@t out of each other without being bothered by nutty god botheres.

I invite you to consider not using "Islamophobes" as a blanket to silence opponents, please. Islamophobe has intentionally been designed as a pejorative to suggest meanness of the labeled, perhaps treachery, and silence anyone it is tossed at. Perhaps it is similar to "antisemite"- which means, however- anti Semitic. "Islamophobe" does not even suggest the pejorative for which it is used; it means Islamic fear. It is an utterly exact word.

I picked up the habit from Jingthing's constant use of the word 'Judeophobe' to describe anti Semitism and the hatred and fear of Jews.

BTW, Oxford Dictionaries:

Islamaphobia: Dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force.

From Wikipedia

Islamophobia is a term for prejudice against, hatred towards, or fear of Muslims or of ethnic groups perceived to be Muslim. While the term is widely recognized and used, both the term and the underlying concept have been criticized

As for your interpretation of what you read and see in the media and the irrational fear it instils in you, I can't help you there.

Yes, Islamic fundamentalism is a problem, and a problem which must be dealt with. But tarring all Muslims and all of Islam with that brush will only make matters worse, not better.

Hmmmmmm of course not everyone representing a political cause is a bad egg I'm sure there were some jolly nice members of the nationalist sotialist party and everything could have been reolved peacfully if it wasn't for those darn Naziophobes.

well Ahmed has to say that, anyway he is a very controversial figure disciplined by the labour party and making anti Jewish statements in the past. But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

You and those who agree with you repeatedly claim that Muslims never condemn acts of violence, terrorism, child abuse etc carried out by Muslims.

Yet every time someone shows you that they do, all you can say or imply is that they are lying, and produce out of context quotes from an Islamaphobic website to 'prove' it!

E-, must try harder.

Hmmm some bloke draws a cartoon that muslims find offensive Europe wide protests, Israel kills some of the civilians Hamas were using as a human shield world wide protests, muslims seem pretty vociferous when something offends them any other event and the BBC wheels on a talking head who apparently speaks for vast yet very silent majority.

I suspect the immigration officer would have no idea what you were doing anyway and assume you were messing about on Facebook.

Well do explain it to him. The point of the exercise is too see if it is legal or not. Like "I am working now, without a work permit, on my laptop for a foreign client. I get paid for this to my foreign bank account and I don't pay any taxes here. Cool, eh ?". Don't forget the video.

If it bothers you so much toddle off down there and inform them of us nefarious individuals yourself, I'm sure their bag of bothered would be overflowing.

Not a bother, just an area of interest. I'm interested in the legal ways to fulfill the requirements of PR/Citizenship. Working without a WP for offshore clients doesn't cut it.

The last group I remember flaunting "they'll never get us" were the perpetual overstayers, who were staying for years and only paying 20k when exiting. Well, look what happened there.

Yes they left paid 20k then re-entered.

I suspect the immigration officer would have no idea what you were doing anyway and assume you were messing about on Facebook.

Well do explain it to him. The point of the exercise is too see if it is legal or not. Like "I am working now, without a work permit, on my laptop for a foreign client. I get paid for this to my foreign bank account and I don't pay any taxes here. Cool, eh ?". Don't forget the video.

If it bothers you so much toddle off down there and inform them of us nefarious individuals yourself, I'm sure their bag of bothered would be overflowing.

Obviously I'm not an expert on the tax contributions of either as it doesn't concern me.

but none the less you felt obligated to comment on it anyway... you tried to state something as fact..."nor do guys who work off shore pay tax on their incomes in Thailand"

Hahahaha pot, kettle, black springs to mind, you no nothing about working on line yet feel the need to grace this topic with your presence.

Terribly sorry I used the pension and off shore as example as they earn their money outside of Thailand yet choose to spend it here which is exactly what I choose to do. Obviously I'm not an expert on the tax contributions of either as it doesn't concern me.

Are you onliners paying your taxes to Thailand then ? Where I come from, it's mandated by the law that I must change my domicile if I stay out of the country for more than 6 months. Same as the 180 days Thailand uses as the mark for tax residency. According to the rules I would then be liable for tax to Thailand and only to Thailand. I suspect it's the same for most of the double taxation agreements.

I pay CGT and NI in the UK that's all I'm required to pay as I'm in the country for less than 90 days per year the national insurance is optional I only contribute as it makes things easier if I ever decide to move back there. I'm in Thailand for between 6 - 10 months per year I've always used tourist or ED visa's so there has been no option to pay tax here. The tax thing is often mentioned on here along with opening a company and employing 4 locals or going down the BOI route, personally the whole point of switching to working on line was to gain more freedom so as long as immigration allow me to work here on a tourist visa I'm going to stick to that. It's also worth noting that guys on retirement arn't required to pay tax on their pentions here nor do guys who work off shore pay tax on their incomes in Thailand so it's a bit hypocritical to expect the on line guys to do so.

No WP available under the visa/labour rules of that country? Then that's life - you need to move on and find a country where you don't break the visa/WP regulations

How many those online workers have been arrested in Thailand? I have not found even one news article. It is always some dude working in a Thai office for Thais. People have asked Thai immigration and have told openly about their online work and their overseas income at border immigration control, no problems in either case.

Immigration is basically being lazy. Note that it doesn't have to be the Immigration police that can bust you, regular BiB, invited by your friendly neighbor/ex-gf/pissed off landlord/etc will do the trick just the same. And there's no telling when there will be a crackdown. It's easy enough to cross reference internet usage statistics of those who have a permanent address and are using the same ISP every day to access IP numbers known to belong to f.ex. OpenDesk. Having a secured VPN on all the time would also be enough to warrant a visit from your parole .. erhm ... immigration officer. It's not sci-fi.

As is in any case of being involved in illegal activities, be ready to move on a short notice. Working under the radar as an illegal "digital nomad" by default means you're forced to be a nomad. If a lifestyle on the run suits you and you've got no moral issues, well, up to you.

There is a relatively large community of on line workers in Thailand and they're not difficult to find if it was illegal then the co-working spaces would surly attract attention there are at least 3 in BKK and a few in Chiangmai. When I got my last visa I was asked how I supported myself I told them I work on line and showed them statements confirming I was paid into my UK account, they were happy with this and gave me a visa. I've got no interest in being "under the radar" as far as I can see the only people who have an issue with the legality of on line work are other westerners posting on here and their opinions really don't matter.

Hanging around women’s shoe, make up and handbag stores is a bit weird no wonder they weren't interested, maybe you'd have better results at the feminine hygiene isle in the supermarket.

They did not discuss the white elephant in the room - Immigration. Many of the countries attending allow Thais to easily emigrate there but the reverse is not true. Reciprocity is badly needed. For example there are 40,000 Thais living in Canada most of whom are naturalised citizens. There are 400 Canadians who have been granted citizenship in Thailand.

So what about it Thailand? Will you give up your ethnocentric laws which border on racism ?

But Thailand will let virtually anyone from canada visit as a tourist. When will Canada give the same privileges to Thais?

Probably when the welfare system in Thailand is comparable.

The only thing that has truly changed is the tightening of being able to get multiple visa exempt entries to stay here. You no longer can do an in/out visa runs to get another entry if you have stayed for the full time allowed on your entry and leave to get another one and return immediately.

There were some border crossings that at the beginning of the tightening was turning people away even if they had valid visas. That has now hopefully stopped.

There have been many rumors going around about tourist visas be stopped or restricted which are not true.

Sorry Ubonjoe, can we just clear this up. If a man comes into Thailand (he's from Europe) at the airport, right, he's got a 30 day stamp. Now, towards the end of his 30 day stay, can he go to Laos/Cambodia (he's going to walk into Laos/Cambodia) for ten minutes, and then come back for another 30 days stamp ? So he can't do it ? Not even ONE in/out visa run ?

It would appear the person you suggest would do the visa run to obtain a second 30 stamp to stay in Thailand 60 days or more. Your asking if this is still possible. Why didnt he get a tourist visa.

Why do you think thai imm is changing their attitude. Maybe they should do away with the stamps all together. Make it same as Vietnam etc

It's possible to get a visa for Vietnam on line then collect it at the airport on arival, as far as I'm aware it's not possible to get a tourist visa for Thailand without going to an embassy or consulate which would be difficult for guys working off shore for example.

Off topic and squabbling posts removed.

How could you delete some of the most idiotic posts ever seen on TV :-(

I was kinda hoping for them to be pinned at the top of the "visa" forum to serve as a warning to future digital dumb asses, "make stupid remarks at your peril"

is there a petion we can sign to make this happen ?

Wouldn't worry the 21 pages of absolute garbage written already will probably suffice as warning enough, if you want to engage in an endless debate with weird petulant cretins TV is the place they're available 24hrs a day as they have nothing more fulfilling in their not so active lives.

If you want actual advice you’re not going to get it from a bunch of disenfranchised fools who think you work out of starbucks selling crap on ebay, anyway to all you TV perennials hope you have a great weekend grumbling and talking to your computer screens.

well they do in america and the uk - talent from all over the world heads to silicon valley or cambridge to found startups.

the same would start happening here if the government didn't expect 51% to be handed over and 4 layabouts employed before even a line of code has been written

There it is again. The tripe about "giving up 51% of your company to a Thai"

The idea that you have to "give away 51%" only holds true if you don't want to bother finding one of the thousands of Thais that can and would gladly pay for their 51% with funds, land, property and equipment. Of course, to find them, you have to leave the Expat Ghetto and actually mingle with the natives.

I know dozens of Thais who are extremely entrepreneurial, and would be in the top 1% in annual income in any country they chose. And if I know dozens, that means there are thousands just like them- because I don't get out much.

The "give away 51%" tripe also completely loses sight of the fact that having the right Thai partner can actually smooth things over in every interaction with the government, the banks, the po-po and any Mafioso that may want their cut for nothing. (Caveat- of course, having the wrong partner can kill your business, but that's true anywhere)

And if you can't find something for 2-4 Thais to do, each making a minimum wage of $300 per month, then you're not thinking hard enough- or your time as a company founder isn't worth much. Run errands, chauffeur, do shopping, change the oil, clean the office, walk the dog, watch the kids, clean your socks, wash the car, keep air in the tires,...,... As an alternative, they can just stay home and be on call for your every need.

Those 2-4 employees will cost you less in a year than the lawyer you have to hire just to incorporate prudently back home. And here, your Thai partner will take care of the incorporation. Part of his 51%.

I'd rather have 49% of a thriving business than 100% of a non-starter. The good news is that so many foreigners buy into the "give away 51%" crap, that the competition for Thai investment money is pretty sad. The bad news (for me anyway) is that my contract doesn't allow me to moonlight and I'm pretty happy with what I'm making already here in Thailand. And no desire to stay if the paycheck quits coming.

well they do in america and the uk - talent from all over the world heads to silicon valley or cambridge to found startups.

the same would start happening here if the government didn't expect 51% to be handed over and 4 layabouts employed before even a line of code has been written

There it is again. The tripe about "giving up 51% of your company to a Thai"

The idea that you have to "give away 51%" only holds true if you don't want to bother finding one of the thousands of Thais that can and would gladly pay for their 51% with funds, land, property and equipment. Of course, to find them, you have to leave the Expat Ghetto and actually mingle with the natives.

I know dozens of Thais who are extremely entrepreneurial, and would be in the top 1% in annual income in any country they chose. And if I know dozens, that means there are thousands just like them- because I don't get out much.

The "give away 51%" tripe also completely loses sight of the fact that having the right Thai partner can actually smooth things over in every interaction with the government, the banks, the po-po and any Mafioso that may want their cut for nothing. (Caveat- of course, having the wrong partner can kill your business, but that's true anywhere)

And if you can't find something for 2-4 Thais to do, each making a minimum wage of $300 per month, then you're not thinking hard enough- or your time as a company founder isn't worth much. Run errands, chauffeur, do shopping, change the oil, clean the office, walk the dog, watch the kids, clean your socks, wash the car, keep air in the tires,...,... As an alternative, they can just stay home and be on call for your every need.

Those 2-4 employees will cost you less in a year than the lawyer you have to hire just to incorporate prudently back home. And here, your Thai partner will take care of the incorporation. Part of his 51%.

I'd rather have 49% of a thriving business than 100% of a non-starter. The good news is that so many foreigners buy into the "give away 51%" crap, that the competition for Thai investment money is pretty sad. The bad news (for me anyway) is that my contract doesn't allow me to moonlight and I'm pretty happy with what I'm making already here in Thailand. And no desire to stay if the paycheck quits coming.

As you say at the end of your post "I'm pretty happy with what I'm making already", it's somehow assumed that because people choose to reside in Thailand that they should conduct business here. Everything I do is based and taxed outside of Thailand I simply spend a lot of time here because as most would agree it's a nice place to stay, from what I gather from people who do run businesses here it's not the easiest environment.

It seems to have caused much consternation on here that guys have asked for some sort of visa change which would entitle them to reside, pay tax and have some sort of legitimacy here. The fact is that as foreigners here whether running a business, on a retirement or any other kind of visa no matter how long you've been here or how fluent your Thai is as a foreigner we have little legitimacy and virtually no representation here. They run things as they want, I'm happy here but have no inclination to run a business.

Can’t believe crabsticks and co are still banging on about this, they mounted their high horse when the visa “crackdown” was announced, filled with an unfounded sense of superiority. Then as it turned out the “crackdown” only affected visa exempts and really wasn’t going to cause a mass exodus of those they felt were undesirable, their horse was not as high but they’d still ride it.

“Your all illegal, immoral you’ll get yours just you wait” they sniped with joyous glee, it didn’t matter that there was no evidence to support their claims. Then as it turns out it’s not illegal and that high horse now looks more like a rocking horse but still they’ll ride it yet no matter how many times you rock from irrelevance to ignorance you’ll never get that horse moving.

And why do these precious unique flowers deem to grace us with their presence all day everyday from dawn till dusk? That is a question for which they have no real answer “I don’t care” they say though their constant presence belies that statement. No one will really know why these arse clowns have adopted this subject with such enthusiasm but it doesn’t really matter as their bitter objections count for nothing.

quite frankly your opinion doesn't matter, change or no change to this law makes no difference really. Online workers gunna work

and neither does your opinion to the people who actually enact the laws, you can stamp your little feet, and hold your breath till you turn blue dear boy, Thailand aint getting an "on line" visa in the form some are hoping for, and yes people are going to work on line, and will continue to do so until they are not allowed back into Thailand as they dont have the right visa, or too many tourists visa's, or too many visa runs or get sprung for working illegally.

The fact is, the on liners are demanding more "freedom" in Thailand and reality is the opposite is actually occurring, they are closing the loop holes...

Haha yea it seems the doom and gloomers celebrated a bit early, I'm certainly not stamping my feet I'm enjoying living legally in this great country I've got all the "freedom" I desire. The freedom to stay here legally, work here legally doing something I enjoy doing in the place that I want to be and it only adds to my enjoyment that me doing this upsets the wingers.

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

can you please explain for me how anybody participating in any of the above examples will be contributing to Thailand?

Are you being serious? They live in Thailand, ok, following so far? They have custom from across the world via the internetz, often Western who pay them money AKA currency. They then go out and dispose of said currency into the economy, the money has come from abroad and was used to buy a service online, and ends up in the hands of the Thai's, khao jai na krup?

Ah, I see. The only contribution to Thailand is spending money on themselves. A little contribution to the local market. Regardless of how many customers around the world had, they would contribute no more than a regular tourist.

Otherwise, why don't they start a business in the first place?

Yet they would expect a visa for doing this? Methinks you overvalue the digital nomad. By lots....................

Mi khao jai krup

This is really a mute point most westerners who reside here weather retired, married or working online contribute in the same way by bringing income in from abroad and using it to finance their lifestyle in Thailand, pay rent, support their families or parteners etc.

I don't think it is a moot point at all.

My question is what makes them any different than a normal person under 50 who wants to stay in Thailand for a long period?

This is what I don't get. All you would be doing is creating another loophole for whoever wanted to class themselves as a digital nomad.

You all need to join the real world for a while, IMHO.

I'm not sure anyone implied there was any difference to someone under 50 who wants to reside in Thailand, I'm under 50 and reside here so that covers me. I'm quite happy using tourist and ED visas. I chose to move here for pretty much the same reasons everyone else did where I draw my income from is irrelevant I cover my costs have a visa and am not breaking any laws by plugging my laptop in for a few hours a day. I have absolutely no interest in how anyone else conducts their affairs or earns a living.

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

can you please explain for me how anybody participating in any of the above examples will be contributing to Thailand?

Are you being serious? They live in Thailand, ok, following so far? They have custom from across the world via the internetz, often Western who pay them money AKA currency. They then go out and dispose of said currency into the economy, the money has come from abroad and was used to buy a service online, and ends up in the hands of the Thai's, khao jai na krup?

Ah, I see. The only contribution to Thailand is spending money on themselves. A little contribution to the local market. Regardless of how many customers around the world had, they would contribute no more than a regular tourist.

Otherwise, why don't they start a business in the first place?

Yet they would expect a visa for doing this? Methinks you overvalue the digital nomad. By lots....................

Mi khao jai krup

This is really a mute point most westerners who reside here weather retired, married or working online contribute in the same way by bringing income in from abroad and using it to finance their lifestyle in Thailand, pay rent, support their families or parteners etc.