Ferangled

Mr Impartial will never accept outright criticism of "his" government. there is nothing cordial, pleasant or voluntary in the level of theft from the public purse in this country. perhaps I should have added "drugged" to my scenario as many thais seem to believe it isn't happening to them.

Never critical of this administration eh?! Right-o, if I don't agree with everything you say hook, line and sinker I must be a Thaksin supporting, red shirt... rational to the end!

I'd venture that, as recent polls have shown, most Thais are only too well aware that corruption is rife in this country, the Government being no exception and rather than drugged they are simply willing participants, and are working on the assumption that this lot are the best of a bad bunch.

In all due respect you venture wrong but that is to be expected.

With all due respect I don't believe either you or I or anyone else for that matter are in a position to definitively say what most Thais think, only speculate...

I just checked to see if I'd made a faux pas in my previous post & I see the above. This is a warning, any more like this & you're on report.

The arrogance was not in your really silly throwaway line but in the first paragraph. You don't know me (thankfully) any you have no right to comment on any part of me.

Your last two posts were an attempted put-down (i.e. total arrogance). You've failed other than displaying the low quality of your posts - for all to see.

Ken, I appreciate your sensitivity and with this in mind will refrain from further exchanges with you. It was a childish reference and pointless "discussion". Let's hope it all disappears into glittery internet dust and the moderators are lenient.

Kindly refrain from future exchanges, I'll return the favour and enjoy Loy Krathong

Mr Impartial will never accept outright criticism of "his" government. there is nothing cordial, pleasant or voluntary in the level of theft from the public purse in this country. perhaps I should have added "drugged" to my scenario as many thais seem to believe it isn't happening to them.

Never critical of this administration eh?! Right-o, if I don't agree with everything you say hook, line and sinker I must be a Thaksin supporting, red shirt... rational to the end!

I'd venture that, as recent polls have shown, most Thais are only too well aware that corruption is rife in this country, the Government being no exception and rather than drugged they are simply willing participants, and are working on the assumption that this lot are the best of a bad bunch.

When this woman said "people getting drunk to attract the opposite sex", I don't believe that's what she meant. I think she meant "people getting drunk to get themselves in the mood".

I teach a lot of Thai teenagers who tell me that Loy Krathong is traditionally the most famous night of the year for losing your virginity. That's where the subject of sex came from. If the two people are consenting, there's no problem. The problem is that the Ministry of Culture sticks its retrogessive, Victorian beak into anything fun and really should change its name to the Mary Whitehouse Experience.

I think this post pretty much sums up where this bizarre article was born from. Certainly Loy Krathong has always struck me as a very romantic festival; my wife & I return to the same spot each year where we celebrated Loy Krathong as young lovers, now as a family.

Of course Ministry of Culture sees romance = sex = taboo. The fact that all of us are a result of a sexual encounter seems to evade some!

The faux argument that all governments are corrupt is, as usual, totted out by PTP defenders. That there is some corruption in all governments, I can accept. But the blatant style by the current mob here is second only to the Thaksin way when he was in power locally.

The worst thing is that Thaksin selects the cabinet based on two criteria: his family & how corrupt is an individual. Too often the individual is both.

Corruption will never be eliminated but it should be curtailed as far as possible by the checks & balances within a (half-) democracy. Unfortunately it's just not happening & I feel great sorrow for Thailand.

You can't accept that all governments are corrupt but can accept that there is corruption in all governments...

To put into scientific/electronics terms - after the on/off switch comes frequency and amplitude controls.

Yes, it happens. Rarely does it happen so often, to such a degree, or with such disregard for the lack of subtlety. Well done corruption often goes undetected. Thailand's version is akin to being bludgeoned, raped and left bleeding and naked in the street.

What on earth are you banging on about Mick?!

As to your analogy, I'd say Thailand is more cordial, in your face corruption than the dagger in the back type of corruption we see in the West. If we were comparing corruption to violent sexual crimes in a rather bizarre & clumsy fashion, I'd say Thailand is more a blow job from a street hooker while the US is more a gang rape in a back alley at gun point.

The faux argument that all governments are corrupt is, as usual, totted out by PTP defenders. That there is some corruption in all governments, I can accept. But the blatant style by the current mob here is second only to the Thaksin way when he was in power locally.

The worst thing is that Thaksin selects the cabinet based on two criteria: his family & how corrupt is an individual. Too often the individual is both.

Corruption will never be eliminated but it should be curtailed as far as possible by the checks & balances within a (half-) democracy. Unfortunately it's just not happening & I feel great sorrow for Thailand.

You can't accept that all governments are corrupt but can accept that there is corruption in all governments...

Brilliant sleuthing Watson. You don't know the difference between a corrupt government (e.g. PTP) and a government with a small level of corruption (Germany's)? Admittedly my wording was not clear, but others seemed to understand the meaning.

Play nice Ken. By definition a Government with some level of corruption is a corrupt Government. Think about it.

And yes, before you ask I believe corruption is rife in the current administration as it was in the previous one. They are good examples of corrupt Governments. Germany I would also class as a corrupt Government and on a scale that eclipses anything that the Thais are capable of due to their influence over other EU countries.

The note about your total bias includes your stance in numerous other threads as well as this one, where your inference is: police-innocent & journalist-guilty. It's not rocket science to discern one's stance & you are only making a mockery of the word 'impartiality'.

My stance in this case is that the journalists (& TJA) are far more credible than the Thai police who lead the way in non-credibility in Thailand.

Rather than simply casting false assertions about people and leaping to addled conclusions, pick a post, even a part of a post, a statement, quote it and respond. It's really easy Ken, you can do it!

The faux argument that all governments are corrupt is, as usual, totted out by PTP defenders. That there is some corruption in all governments, I can accept. But the blatant style by the current mob here is second only to the Thaksin way when he was in power locally.

The worst thing is that Thaksin selects the cabinet based on two criteria: his family & how corrupt is an individual. Too often the individual is both.

Corruption will never be eliminated but it should be curtailed as far as possible by the checks & balances within a (half-) democracy. Unfortunately it's just not happening & I feel great sorrow for Thailand.

You can't accept that all governments are corrupt but can accept that there is corruption in all governments...

Since when did questioning the validity of an article or actually more appropriately to this thread, questioning the conclusions others have drawn from this article, indicate support of anything other than rational thought process and impartiality?

Since your attempt to deflect this thread. Rational thought & impartiality? Neither. In fact you have contributed very little to the thread which, as a reminder, is about police thuggery against journalists.

Rather than make baseless assumptions about other members of this forum do you think you could actually engage in the debate. Pick a post, quote it and counter the content point by point.

Your digs come across in a distinctly trollish fashion and have a noticeable lack of actual substance.

Let me get this straight. The red-shirt supporters on this thread are defending the police for acting like thugs because one of the journalists was from the wrong side.

Well the TJA (only one-sided in defending journalists) are not impressed & stated the obvious - that the police overreacted.

Silencing journalists is the modus operandi of forces that don't want their violent behaviour to be seen or reported. Thaksin tried it when in power (locally) but he shot himself in the foot. The police have done the same, spoiling a mostly well organised suppression of the rally.

As far as I can see, no one in this thread is supporting inappropriate police behavior.

I second that and similarly can't see anyone being overly supportive of the red shirts. I don't think by putting this incident in perspective and showing up the double standards of certain members of this forum that anyone should be labelled as a supporter of anything other than impartiality.

To clarify I personally condemn police brutality and suppression of the press... but not solely when it suits my personal agenda. I also like to maintain a healthy perspective between this incident and other more lethal methods of suppression we've seen in use in Thailand's recent history.

I don't believe that for a minute. You have gone out of your way to deflect the thread from the Op. Your perspective (meaning your total bias) is to defend any group supporting the PTP, Red-shirts, red-police & Thaksin.

Well I guess that's your prerogative Ken!

If you could actually substantiate your claims with a single quote supporting the red shirts, PTP or Thaksin your rantings may carry some validity, as it is they don't. Every post I have made on this thread has been in response to another post. I have questioned some very dubious assumptions and misinformed statements, and backed these questions up with sources and points that support my position.

Total bias is certainly evident here but I'll leave it up to other readers to discern who by.

Let me get this straight. The red-shirt supporters on this thread are defending the police for acting like thugs because one of the journalists was from the wrong side.

Well the TJA (only one-sided in defending journalists) are not impressed & stated the obvious - that the police overreacted.

Silencing journalists is the modus operandi of forces that don't want their violent behaviour to be seen or reported. Thaksin tried it when in power (locally) but he shot himself in the foot. The police have done the same, spoiling a mostly well organised suppression of the rally.

As far as I can see, no one in this thread is supporting inappropriate police behavior.

Refer to posts nos 8, 23 (yours) & 27. Supporting as in deflecting, questioning the journalist's position & attempting to put the blame on the journalist.

Since when did questioning the validity of an article or actually more appropriately to this thread, questioning the conclusions others have drawn from this article, indicate support of anything other than rational thought process and impartiality?

Let me get this straight. The red-shirt supporters on this thread are defending the police for acting like thugs because one of the journalists was from the wrong side.

Well the TJA (only one-sided in defending journalists) are not impressed & stated the obvious - that the police overreacted.

Silencing journalists is the modus operandi of forces that don't want their violent behaviour to be seen or reported. Thaksin tried it when in power (locally) but he shot himself in the foot. The police have done the same, spoiling a mostly well organised suppression of the rally.

As far as I can see, no one in this thread is supporting inappropriate police behavior.

I second that and similarly can't see anyone being overly supportive of the red shirts. I don't think by putting this incident in perspective and showing up the double standards of certain members of this forum that anyone should be labelled as a supporter of anything other than impartiality.

To clarify I personally condemn police brutality and suppression of the press... but not solely when it suits my personal agenda. I also like to maintain a healthy perspective between this incident and other more lethal methods of suppression we've seen in use in Thailand's recent history.

Remember, this topic is about the Pitak Siam rally of this past weekend and not the events of 2010.

My apologies metisdead, I fear I have contributed to derailing this thread.

It's difficult not to draw comparisons between this serious assault on the freedom of the independent press in Thailand and those pesky foreign Red Shirt propaganda merchants shooting themselves willy nilly to further their journalistic careers in 2010...

Come on. This was your first sentence.

"Very selective memory bordering on total BS. Never occurred during the 2010 protests?! Really, there was total press freedom was there?"

Nicky, please leave it alone. You're yet again taking a reply to another member totally out of context. The post is there for all to read, you're doing yourself no favours mate.

I think it's a slippery slope, do we sweep them under the carpet or do they allow them to function in society as actors or whatever they choose. The few shows that I've seen with Downs Syndrome actors have actually been some of the best and most genuine performances. The same goes for people like Peter Dinklage in Game of Thrones, that guy made that show memorable.

I echo that sentiment regarding Game of Thrones, his performance was outstanding and had both my wife and I riveted to the series. It was probably one of the best roles a midget (is that PC?), small guy, has ever had and he played the socks off it. Superb.

Also enjoyed watching Sean Bean take an early dive like he seems to do in every role he plays! When you see Sean Bean in the credits you're sure he'll meet an unfortunate end first... think about it, has he ever lasted an entire film?

Remember, this topic is about the Pitak Siam rally of this past weekend and not the events of 2010.

My apologies metisdead, I fear I have contributed to derailing this thread.

It's difficult not to draw comparisons between this serious assault on the freedom of the independent press in Thailand and those pesky foreign Red Shirt propaganda merchants shooting themselves willy nilly to further their journalistic careers in 2010...

The foreign press. Those on the street. They must be right. They are never in dangerous places they should not be or are not allowed to be. They always obey orders from authorities. They never go the extra mile for that 1 special picture. They are saints and are always right. Just like Mr. Santi.

And we should not take into account that a headline like Army shoots innocent protestors sells better then Violent protestors shoot at Thai authorities.

Please try not to be so blinkered in your posts.

Nicky please read back this post and compare and contrast with your others on this thread. They make truly fascinating reading!

As if "censorship" of any kind was new to Thailand!

So some of you get all tingly in their underwear about that?

Ever do anything else on the internet, other than Thai Visa? (NO, I am not talking about porn!)

So it bothers you, that one journalist got his camera removed?

Yeah...that sure is borderline fascism!

There were 2 journalists.

Nothing "new" to Thailand? Show me other cases of journalist abuse and camera confiscation

Not sure where you are coming from with your "tingly underpants" comments and allusion to "porn" but I'm sure this type of stuff is best kept to yourself.

Maybe if the journalists had actually worn the Green TJA arm bands instead of the yellow Pitak Siam party ones, then they would have been easier to distinguish, and would not have been mistook for protesters.

You know that for a fact?

No green arm band = kicking on the floor?

Why, do you know for a fact it doesn't? What a random comment...

It would seem a prudent step though; distinguish yourself from the protesters and make it clear to authorities that you are actually a working journalist and not a protester that happens to have a job as a journalist... let's face it which, given the neutrality of their employer, would seem more believable?

^{_{I feel that this is a very poor article......its the first time in the 6 years i have been in thailand that this 'news or warning' has appeared; ..here on K Samui there is always a well mannered party on the beach. Teens tend to over drink everywhere, taking advantage of girls who drink too much is not just a thai thing.... so its probably down to poor translation, or just a filler.... Surveys depend on what questions are asked to whom......and the answer from most young men to the question ... "..do you think young women are more likely to agree to sex when they have had a few drinks.? "..... will always be Yes !....so the 'warning 'is just a reminder about any party time.......My thai g/f confirms... no worse than any other time}}

If you have been here for 6 years and this is the first time you have seen this warning

I would think you should read or watch the news more

Every holiday these types of warnings appear

I especially like the "do not drink and drive over Songkran"

Then everyone sits back and watches the daily death count on the roads

To be fair I've been here even longer and don't recall any similar warnings over Loy Krathong; Songkran yes, with good reason... it's a drunken race back to everyone's home province for a drunken piss up for a few days (or weeks depending where you are) and a national holiday, Loy Krathong isn't, most have to work and the younger Thais I talk to aren't remotely interested in the festival.

One of the biggest factors for death and injury during Songkran is that so many Thais work out of their province and head home for the festival, driving 100s of miles across the country. Mix drink with this and you have a recipe for disaster, christ most Thais driving 100s of miles sober as a nun is still a recipe for disaster.

Songkran = OTT water fights, drink/ drive accidents. Yes, spot on in my experience.

Loy Krathong = Rapes, drunken brawls etc. Certainly not in my experience.

The story has been all over the news the last 4 days. Like I said, the police already came out to say it was a mistake. A honest mistake.

What are you trying to argue here?? Coming up with excuses for the police's handling. Amazing.

The journalists SHOWED THEIR PRESS CARD. Yes Frengled, let's talk about the 6 wheel truck that caused all the confusion.. pff

Jeez Nicky calm down, that was a simple question, do you actually know the answer or are you basing all of this hyperbole on a single incomplete article? I honestly don't know hence the question mark, do you?

Did you completely miss the points I made about the employers of this particular journalist? Try actually responding to them rather than going off on a rant. I'm not trying to argue anything here, simply trying to get certain members to engage their grey cells and consider all the facts...

I believe that corruption has been evident in virtually every Government the world over since the dawn of time. Show me an incorruptible politician and I'll show you a flying pig...

Ohh, then it is ok. Let them rob the country. Let them steal billions from the tax-payers.

Hi Ho Silver... bit early to be getting on your rather large equestrian friend isn't it Nicky?

Nicky has a very valid point. But again we see you answer by being sarcastic rather than answer with some logic.

Each to their own, personally I thought Nicky was applying a ridiculously speculative assertion to my post.

Valid point? In what way was that a valid response to what I wrote? If you read my other post on this thread, no.17, it's pretty clear where I stand on the issue and obvious that Nicky's post was just a cheap shot, a bit of preverbial mudslinging, taking my reply to another member's question out of context as a statement and deliberately ignoring what I'd wrote only minutes earlier, which I think adequately defined my position on corruption.

You can take that logic, put it in your pipe and smoke it.

have you ever been shot ?

you have what are called entry and exit wounds which are very easy to distinguish - then you have the general direction you were facing when shot, with a little deduction you can with some accuracy determine who shot you, perhaps a lot of these injured people were bought to keep quiet - you see my question still remains

why have "none" of them come forward ??????

Whether or not I've been shot has very little to do with having an appreciation and understanding of ballistics. Indeed the entry and exit wounds should be able to clarify where the shooting came from so do you not find it in the least bit fishy that the DSI are not prepared to release any of the findings from their investigation?

I don't know why you maintain that no one has come forward, they have but nothing has been done. If you don't believe me please do some research. Those that were actually on the streets being shot at are fairly conclusive in their statements as to who was shooting at them.

Sorry I said I was not going to wander off topic and we seem to be. I suggest if you have any doubt in your mind over these incidents you do some reading and make up your own mind, if you haven't already.

It depends on what you are actually censoring - propaganda inciting violence and hate or accurate news reporting - big difference

Very true and how would you perceive a total media black out with only officially Government endorsed news being released?

Santi Tae-tia, 50, a cameraman for ASTV and Tosarit Wattanarat, cameraman for T-News, both anti-government television stations, lodged complaints at Nanlerng Police Station yesterday, saying they were assaulted by police, detained and had their cameras destroyed.

Santi said he showed his press card and journalist badge to no avail and was attacked by police. He added that he was forced to lie on the ground and kicked in the face, but he was able to protect himself with his hands. Santi said another journalist was assaulted. He and Tosarit were held in a detention van for more than an hour.

His camera and notebook computer were damaged and his camera was confiscated.

This is a straightforward story and the police are dead wrong. What a coincidence that it happened within 2 hours after the protest started and that one journalist works for ASTV. What a coincidence guys!

PURE intimidation by the police…Nothing less!

And then there are guys on those forum saying..yes..yes..but..but..in 2010 bla bla.. I honestly believe that many guys posting here don’t want Thailand to improve. They seem to be intelligent guys but as long as their party wins its ok. All about winning. Very dangerous people.

I wonder whether or not Santi was one of the journalists riding in the back of the 6 wheeled truck that rammed the police barricades Nicky? Would explain his treatment by the police wouldn't it?

I guess the fact that he works for a known anti-Government TV station is totally irrelevant when considering this incident. Are there any independent, foreign journalists crying foul play over the handling of the Pitak Siam protest or only those known to be on the payroll of Anti Government media outlets?

I guess there's no reason why these journalists would want to be paint the Government handling of this situation in a bad light? No agenda attached to working for an Anti-Government TV station?

Indeed 2010 bla bla bla... totally irrelevant to the political landscape in Thailand! I honestly believe that many guys on here deliberately ignore all the facts in favour of carefully selecting snippets that support their "cause", whatever that might be. I think there are a few on here that prefer to consider all the information and rather than making outrageous, sweeping statements, based on little substantiated fact, suggest motivations, ask questions and play Devil's advocate...

I believe that corruption has been evident in virtually every Government the world over since the dawn of time. Show me an incorruptible politician and I'll show you a flying pig...

Ohh, then it is ok. Let them rob the country. Let them steal billions from the tax-payers.

Hi Ho Silver... bit early to be getting on your rather large equestrian friend isn't it Nicky?

Sorry, but any alternative will be more of the same.

Just choose who you'd prefer to be reaping the benefits and get on with it.

Corrupt politicians love your attitude, it makes their lives so much easier and their bank accounts so much fuller.

To be fair I don't think it's FarangTalk's responsibility to combat corruption in the Thai Government... I believe they have a National Anti Corruption Commission that get paid to do just that.

While I understand the viewpoint that it is everyone's job to fight corruption wherever they find it, the reality is that corruption is so rampant here, pervading virtually every aspect of business and day to day life, that people are rightly scared to stand up to it. If you can't address corruption in day to day life, effecting each and every Thai citizen daily, how do you tackle corruption within the Government itself?

When it's common knowledge that some police here operate protection rackets and control many of the black market sectors, who exactly are Thai citizens expected to turn to for protection and help?