Ferangled

Sorry, but any alternative will be more of the same.

Just choose who you'd prefer to be reaping the benefits and get on with it.

While I agree that corruption will always exist, I would much rather see an administration other than one with a proven track record of corruption excellence.

Is it foolish of me to think there are some people in Thailand with integrity and a grasp of the concept of public duty?

Not at all, they exist but are not drawn to a career in politics and if they are they don't stay uncorrupted for long...

No clearly if the Government of that time were listening to start with it wouldn't have had to run that far... how long did Abhisit need to realise that his people felt marginalised and ignored before he took action?

In virtually every democratic country the world over, democracy has been born out of violence. Look to the French, the English, I'm afraid it's a common theme of democracy; those that feel they don't have it are often willing to die to obtain it. In many countries those that have fought for it are revered as heroes, sadly in Thailand they are labelled thugs and terrorists...

Do you think governments should just submit to mob rule? Get a hundred thousand protesters out there and the government should just step down?

No, allowing them to actually vote and choose their own Government seems to do the trick.

Completely disregarding that the police were doing their job as far as restricting weapons at this rally. Had they done so in 2010, there would have been no need for the army to be called out, and even if they were the toll would have been much lower.

In 2010 the protesters came prepared for war, why does it surprise you that they got it?

Given the leadership of the country at the time, no the response wasn't that surprising but proved pretty damning to that administration.

In 2010 the protesters came prepared to do what what was necessary to ensure that their voice was heard and that general elections were called. They had a valid cause and ultimately they achieved their goal. The proof as they say, is in the pudding.

Was it necessary that they die to ensure there voice was heard? It seems that they got what they wanted.

No clearly if the Government of that time were listening to start with it wouldn't have had to run that far... how long did Abhisit need to realise that his people felt marginalised and ignored before he took action?

In virtually every democratic country the world over, democracy has been born out of violence. Look to the French, the English, I'm afraid it's a common theme of democracy; those that feel they don't have it are often willing to die to obtain it. In many countries those that have fought for it are revered as heroes, sadly in Thailand they are labelled thugs and terrorists...

You are the one bringing 2010 into the discussion and comparing it to the weekend's protests.

Err actually no I'm not... please check the posts on the first page of this thread. 2010 was mentioned quite a few times before I even started posting on this thread... Buchholz even started referencing 2007!

In 2010, the army initially didn't block the protesters from going anywhere. Therefore they had no need to try to push through any blockades.

Yes, I agree disastrous action plan from the Government at that time, why didn't they take any action to limit their movement? It's like they were totally unprepared and handled the entire incident negligently.

It's all ifs and buts isn't it but history is there to teach us a lesson and it seems that this Government learnt a few from the disastrous inaction and then overreaction from the Dems in 2010. Thankfully this protest was handled considerably better and no one lost their life as a result.

Exactly how do you think the Government could have handled this protest better and retrospectively what lessons could the previous Dem Government have learned from the handling of this situation?

No need to talk about elections here. It seems to be a common practice by many to throw it in: "Yes but they won elections...democratic govenrment.. Completely irrelevant to the topic. We are discussing the role of the police during protest. Isn’t it?

That pretty much says it all Nicky. Yes, the democratic rights of the people to elect their own Government are totally irrelevant and have no bearing on the protests, the police response or the political landscape.

"I'm not sure what exactly we have learned about 2010 from this" Really?

So you don't know neither that the Police force only works for the Shin clan? It has been like this for many years now. Anyhow, never mind if you don't see it.

Just leave it here. No need to talk to a guy that doesn't know Thai history.

Didn't you get past the first sentence of my post Nicky?

I suggest you read up on Thai history yourself, try to keep your tone civil and refrain from getting personal. There's a far greater divide within the police than there is within the army. Countless military coups have taught us exactly where the military's loyalties lie!

The fact is that the police managed to control and suppress this protest without loss of life. In 2010 the army used live ammunition on Thai citizens and many people died as a result. That's the big difference for me, a democratically elected Government & police force that showed restraint faced with a protest calling for a coup as opposed to a sham Government & army that turned the capitol city into a war zone and opened fire on it's own citizens who were calling for elections...

Please don't skip over that point Nicky, one group were calling for elections, calling for their votes to be counted and their voices heard, the other were calling for a military coup, an undemocratic ousting of the Government... not an election, a coup.

Chalerm said the Internal Security Act (ISA) is expected to be lifted today.

Can someone please take the drink out of his hand and tell him it was already lifted yesterday?

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So quick to jump on any perceived wrong you can... exactly who's been drinking Buchholz?!

Clearly this statement was made yesterday, so he was quite correct in what he said. Look at the time of the OP, do you really think Chalerm was up giving interviews hours before 5:56 in the morning, giving the Nation time to type it up and get it to press...?

Especially when you consider that they were arrested within 2 hours from the start of the rally.

A show of force to intimidate other protestors…

Yeeah let's congratulate the Thai police for selective law enforcement. Give me a break!

Of course cutting through barbed wire barriers and attacking the police had nothing to do with it. Better to have waited a few days, let it get really violent and then bring in the snipers in the army?

A few days? A few weeks (months) you mean. Because the police was basically none-existing in 2010, the army had to be brought in to end the out-of-control mess. Interesting. I agree.

So to simplify the whole thing, would the police have been as active in 2010 as they were 2 days ago, all the terror, death and destruction would have been MUCH less.

I think the last week has taught us a lot about what happened in 2010.

I'm not sure what exactly we have learned about 2010 from this. I guess we could take from it that the authorities did a much better job of containing this protest than they did in 2010. That would be a pretty simplistic view given the completely different scale, intent and motivation of the two protests; one was calling for elections, the other a coup... it's pretty disingenuous to compare the two really. One had considerable public (national and international) sympathy with their cause, the other not...

Thankfully no one died during this protest and given the emotionally charged backdrop I think that's a resounding success for both the police and the current administration. They seem to have been much better prepared and actually had an action plan in place and enforced it. I agree, we saw the complete opposite in 2010 and many people lost their lives as a result.

So on balance looking at the way the respective Governments handled these situations, which was an unmitigated disaster and which a resounding success?

Especially when you consider that they were arrested within 2 hours from the start of the rally.

A show of force to intimidate other protestors…

Yeeah let's congratulate the Thai police for selective law enforcement. Give me a break!

Of course cutting through barbed wire barriers and attacking the police had nothing to do with it. Better to have waited a few days, let it get really violent and then bring in the snipers in the army?

A total of 117 protesters - 94 men and 23 women - were being detained at the Border Patrol Police Region 1 headquarters in Pathum Thani yesterday, according to Pol Lt-General Nares Nanthachot, commander of Police Region 1.

Will the government provide bail for these obviously political prisoners, or just let them go to save money and show some real reconciliation spirit ?

This post was made prior to the release of those arrested during the confrontation with the police, prior to Buchholz providing us the update that they have indeed been released on this thread...

Buchholz, you liked this comment and as one so quick to allude to double standards in others I'm guessing you are about to post a congratulatory message to the current Government and the police, for putting reconciliation first rather than dragging them through the court system and furthering the divide?

Write a post to the current government with a congratulatory message and I'll like it if it's as timely and poignant as rubl's.

I'm not the one with double-standard issues, but I can spoonfeed you examples of those that do.

,

Incidentally how do you think those arrested should have been treated?

To be fair while a rant it is, it is a rant that bears some truth when reading behind the lines and understanding the stances certain members take and the reaction to certain events. Personally I liked his post because of this comment:

"There should be a coup against uneducated, blind, bitter, brainwashed farangs who polute this forum and with the few left we could maybe debate on how much better it would be if reconciliation was the focus of everyone"

It would be refreshing to have the petty biases left to one side and simply move forward with constructive discussion rather than childish name calling.

I'm not sure what you have objected to personally in what Gerry wrote or why you feel he is "stuck on himself" but calling him "Jesus" has really improved your credibility in my eyes, as has your comment Nicky "Lost your medication... perhaps? And now back to the Isan lady!"

I edited out the "just joking" bit, because clearly you aren't - jokes are meant to be humorous and personally I don't find continual infantile comments and rehashing of stereo types in anyway amusing.

"could maybe debate on how much better it would be if reconciliation was the focus of everyone"

It would be good if reconciliation was the focus of anyone. The thought that government supporters on here can say the "whitewash Thaksin" bill has anything to do with reconciliation makes me laugh.

It's all so black and white in the eyes of some isn't it? Please be so good as to point out these "government supporters" on here...

Stay on target, sorry, topic, stay on topic!!!

A total of 117 protesters - 94 men and 23 women - were being detained at the Border Patrol Police Region 1 headquarters in Pathum Thani yesterday, according to Pol Lt-General Nares Nanthachot, commander of Police Region 1.

Will the government provide bail for these obviously political prisoners, or just let them go to save money and show some real reconciliation spirit ?

This post was made prior to the release of those arrested during the confrontation with the police, prior to Buchholz providing us the update that they have indeed been released on this thread...

Buchholz, you liked this comment and as one so quick to allude to double standards in others I'm guessing you are about to post a congratulatory message to the current Government and the police, for putting reconciliation first rather than dragging them through the court system and furthering the divide?

"a congratulatory message to the current Government and the police, for putting reconciliation first"

Or maybe there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute the individuals that were arrested.

Indeed, thank you for making my point...

That is exactly how it is being spun by certain people after the event and is the exact opposite to how it was being spun before... I wonder why? I guess you're damned if you do and damned if you don't!

Spin on...

A total of 117 protesters - 94 men and 23 women - were being detained at the Border Patrol Police Region 1 headquarters in Pathum Thani yesterday, according to Pol Lt-General Nares Nanthachot, commander of Police Region 1.

Will the government provide bail for these obviously political prisoners, or just let them go to save money and show some real reconciliation spirit ?

This post was made prior to the release of those arrested during the confrontation with the police, prior to Buchholz providing us the update that they have indeed been released on this thread...

Buchholz, you liked this comment and as one so quick to allude to double standards in others I'm guessing you are about to post a congratulatory message to the current Government and the police, for putting reconciliation first rather than dragging them through the court system and furthering the divide?

Quite amazing the lengths you have just gone to in sourcing three old snippets of posts, all taken out of context, while seemingly completely unable to post a single source substantiating what you have written on this very thread...

Surely it would have taken much less effort to simply provide a link to a news article that actually supported what you have written? It certainly would have left you with a little more credibility...

No great lengths extended at all. It's very easy to search for a catch phrase that someone has become to be known for as in this case. Accomplished in seconds.

http://www.thaivisa....ch&fromsearch=1

It was intended as a reminder that someone who obfuscates in their own replies for requests for information can reasonably expect to receive the same.

It's become part and parcel on the forum of late to similarly dance around requests and formerly expected protocols have fallen by the wayside in favor of replies similar to such as those quoted.

Odd that you wish to try and focus the credibility issue on me when I've posted more links and more information than the vast majority of posters.

It's difficult not to follow the trend and join in with what has become the forum's norm.

Rather than continue to buck the trend and continually supply links, I'll just go along with the crowd for now. Perhaps when I see more challenges to other posters like your post here, then things might change.

In the meantime, I'll continue to provide links, happily, to those that don't obfuscate tremendously themselves, as I always have.

eg.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5873338

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5865127

Have a nice day.

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So you've supplied two links that lead to the following old threads on Thai Visa... "National parks reveal earnings on daily basis" and "Police Check Trucks, Vans Heading Into Bangkok", neither of which are in any way relevant to what you have said on this thread or do anything to substantiate the wild claims you made earlier in this thread!

You really are going to great lengths to not substantiate your statements, surely it would be easier to just provide a source and backup your statement? As you have pointed out, you are a prolific link provider on this forum, so why the difficulty now?

If you can't supply a single source, even a tenuous link to an impartial jaundiced article alluding to what you have maintained on this thread as a fact, I am afraid I can only assume you are talking from your posterior once again... I would also like to point out to you that credibility is not automatically granted to those that post the most links on an internet forum... indeed I recall a saying my late Grandmother was fond of: "The emptiest vessels make the most noise."

Production wise it is a mix of nice to horrible. Editors here need to learn when to 'cut'. The show drags and drags at all the wrong points. The storyline is absolutely pathetic and actors unlikely to get a job outside Thailand. But each to his/her own. If it what you are used to watching and there are no options, go with it. Living in theatrical/cinematic bliss is a choice. Thai's have their ways and Farang theirs. Never to the two shall mix.

Here is a link to a Thai actor who went to the US to learn his trade in NY. He recently returned and starred in a Grammy film about to be released. Look at the difference - film is in both English and Thai. Here is the link to the trailer. He used to host a show on the Fashion Channel - UBC 40 at the time. What a change...

The theme was already done way back in the 1930's. It was called Reefer Madness.

Perhaps a more artistic way of putting the message across would be an improvement. But it certainly does cause Paranoia,among other serious side effects.

I presume you mean that Thai soaps have been known to cause paranoia and other serious side effects... you can't seriously be suggesting that "Reefer Madness" is anything other than a misinformed propaganda piece funded by religious nut jobs?

My lovely wife has just informed me, after sharing with her this thread, that she has premeditated my manhood going into the blender to further decrease my odds.

I would humbly suggest that anyone living with a partner that has formulated a plan for the disposal of their penis should consider moving on or at least investing in a deadbolt or two and separate bedrooms...

I have worked for some of the most rich, powerful and influential people on this planet and none have this ludicrous show of extravagance when travelling. In fact most opt for the complete reverse, low key and off the public radar.

Exactly, plenty of room, a certain rustic charm and environmentally aware to boot... and most importantly small bump in the road proof!

NB. Rambo is a fictional character portrayed by Sylvester Stallone in a popular yet dire series of films. While many US citizens do actually believe he is lurking in the woods, living like a hermit, ready to be called upon in times of dire need, he isn't, he doesn't actually exist, ergo discussing what a real Rambo does seems a bit infantile and irrelevant, much like discussing what the real Superman eats for tea.... he doesn't eat anything, he doesn't exist, he's not real...

Ferangled is just a moniker. An empty label. A fictional character in the labyrinths of TV.

Behind that label could be Lord Lucan, Shirley Temple or Scooby Doo. Who knows in this virtual world?

Errr.... quite! It's also my username on TV...

The likelihood that Scooby Doo is posting on this forum under any moniker is fairly slim, ignoring the difficulty of typing with paws, much like Rambo, Scooby Doo is actually a fictional character...

NB. Rambo is a fictional character portrayed by Sylvester Stallone in a popular yet dire series of films. While many US citizens do actually believe he is lurking in the woods, living like a hermit, ready to be called upon in times of dire need, he isn't, he doesn't actually exist, ergo discussing what a real Rambo does seems a bit infantile and irrelevant, much like discussing what the real Superman eats for tea.... he doesn't eat anything, he doesn't exist, he's not real...

One of the differences between humans and dumb animals is having the gift of imagination - ?

Aye and one of the differences between a sane person and an insane one is the ability to distinguish fiction from reality!

Talk about medication wearing off..................

Are the headaches and paranoia starting again? Poor dear, I did think that first post had all the hallmarks of a repeat episode coming on... just remember one in the morning, one at lunch and one before beddy byes...

As I said if the shoe fits wear it. If not no problem. It is appearing the shoe does indeed fit.

Surely we've cleared that up already - Size 12, I even gave you my preferred brands of footwear for different occasions.

If you're alluding to your conspiracy theory that anyone critical of the Democrats is posting on direct order from Thaksin then you are clearly more deluded than I jokingly suggested. Paranoia? Confusion? Irrational, illogical leaps of thinking? Take your pills!!!

I think a few people are taking the comments a bit too personally here. I'm glad Obama won the election, in a best of a bad bunch sort of way... To be perfectly honest the alternative was pretty worrying. I don't believe the sentiments expressed here are directed negatively towards Obama as a president but more at the ludicrous show of wealth and extravagance given the current economic climate, which let's face it the US have a considerable amount of accountability for.

The US, as a lynch pin of the global economy but also a country with debts spiralling out of control, would do well to make a public show of taking the economic situation seriously and any jaunt like this with the obvious show of extravagance is OTT and will attract criticism. It is to be expected. No one seriously expects the US president to fly coach class and take a taxi to his engagements but perhaps some appropriate middle ground could be considered...

I have worked for some of the most rich, powerful and influential people on this planet and none have this ludicrous show of extravagance when travelling. In fact most opt for the complete reverse, low key and off the public radar. The clip from the Dublin visit just shows how incredibly ridiculous all this expenditure and OTT security measures are when the "Leader of the Free World" is defeated by something as basic as ground clearance, making a complete mockery of all the extra security precautions as they drive off into the sunset leaving the president exposed to all manner of attack and ridicule until what appears to be a passenger coach is moved in to hide his blushes... farcical.

Nothing is fool proof, but that doesn't mean you go low key or go for a middle ground like you suggest. Sure, some very rich people get away with low key. One of the richest guys I know doesn't own a car.

The president of the US will never be able to be low key.

Safety issues aside (and I think they are very real) there is a diplomacy aspect. Turn up to a negotiation in anything but the most impressive ride, and you are already half a step behind the other bloke.

I'm afraid you are just perpetrating the very style (read gross extravagance and vulgar, shameless display of wealth) over substance thinking that has led to the current economic climate and the sickening class divides we see in many societies.

Personally I couldn't give a flying cr@p what car the "other bloke" turned up to the meeting in, I'd be more interested in what they actually had to say... I know that's an alien concept to the American mindset as evidenced by the entire election farce. We should call the next one "President Idol" and run the entire election campaign as a televised popularity competition based on the format of the pop version.

As far as the safety concerns go I'd hazard a guess that US foreign policy (read bomb the sh@t out of them and steal their stuff) might have a little something to do with that... and let's face it, if someone really wants someone dead in this world, there's very little anyone can do to stop them - how thick the armour on your caddy is or how many jets you fly your entourage around in is somewhat irrelevant if someone really is committed to killing you. Fear of assassination is not what prompts this OTT show, it's just that - a show, and who's better at putting on a big, brash show than the Americans?!

Just a suggestion that perhaps a big show of wealth is not appropriate when you're responsible for a global economic crash...