tomacht8

I've never heard the red leaders proposals for reform.

Now's the time boys, call a meeting urgently, you've only got a few hours to think up some ideas.

So calling for a return to the 1997 charter, a fully elected senate, reformed judiciary aren't proposals for reform? Or are the only reforms you're willing to accept undemocratic reforms? Not to say the reforms the reds wanted to see aren't as self serving as the ones Suthep and the elite want, but they are reforms nevertheless.

In my view, your first 2 points are regressive moves- the 1997 charter gave too much power to the politicians which was exploited by Thaksin.

A wholly elected Senate would result in the same- relatives of politicians would not check and balance their husband/wife/sister/mother etc in the Senate -too much power to politicians

Reform of the judiciary, ie. limiting its powers to check corrupt politicians, is possibly another move to expand politicians' influence.

I meant reforms to benefit society, not politicians.

Education

The police force

Decentralization

Corruption

Do you know of any red shirt policies in these important fields?

I've never heard any.

I just still wounder,

when was there last full party assembly with elections and votes on party goals?

How many registered party members they have currently?

Where is the base?

This decision will make things worse, not better. My tortoise told me so.

Suthep can forget help from the military, Thaksin has got to them first with his blood soaked money.

It is now down to the people.

Agree - elections on 2nd Feb. That's when the 'people' will decide.

But as the PTP has said that they will use the same mp's as in 2011 for their election list, and the constitutional court has said they will only rule after the election, I've such a strange feeling that 2nd February isn't the date that it will be decided.

"The constitutional court has said they will only rule after the election."

Can you please give a source/link

This decision will make things worse, not better. My tortoise told me so.

Suthep can forget help from the military, Thaksin has got to them first with his blood soaked money.

It is now down to the people.

Agree - elections on 2nd Feb. That's when the 'people' will decide.

Yes and hopefully with new implemented parliamentary requirements.

Also the Election Commission should even check the partys before, the finances of the parties and made it public who sponsers who.

Interesting opinions.

I'm not afraid that Suthep will build up a Kingdom/ dictatorship or what ever for himself.

He did not have any support for that. He knows that.

He is the man for the rough ton. His goal is to stop the Shin clan.

Coincidentally, that would also mean defacto to stop the corruption in the country now.

So why everybody let him move and shout?

The police could sacked him, the army could sacked him. The courts could sacked him.

In the background the courts are working now.

- Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong gets one-year imprisonment without suspension

- Abhisit due in court over 2010 crackdown (Suthep will follow sure)

- Bt2 trillion loan bill halted, pending court ruling

- NACC to investigate backers of charter change draft (maybe they ban 312 members)

Maybe a great chance to getting the corruption down in Thailand.

Hopefully it all turns now into an clear anti - corruption movement

with concrete suggestions for improvement.

The frame is clear: Peace and unity.

PS:

- It must be prevented in the future, that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power.

- When public funds are used, then the public has the right to see what the representatives of the people plan to do with the money and how it was used.

Removing the Shin clan will remove corruption in Thailand? You should put in a when you tell jokes because otherwise people might not get it. In this case, it's probably worthy of a . What? You weren't joking?

You know the great corruption fighter Suthep has quite a lot of experience in this field, right? Just google "Suthep Thaugsuban" and "Sor Por Kor", then do the same with "cooking oil", and with "police station construction". This is your white knight coming to slay the corruption dragon.

So what is your position then?

Can you give a description, how Thailand can fight corruption today?

Revolving financial management: Yes this describes and points out the real problems this government has managed to bring upon the Thai people. For this age old mangement system to prove successful, you need more revenue coming in than your expenses that go out.

The government attempts to sell farm product, bonds, and/or borrow money to generate revenue have not been as successful as their ability to skim off the top, pay the middlemen involved, thus the farmers (suppliers) are being shafted along with the Thai people (investors) This program seems to be going the way most do, when operated in such a manner.(Bankrupt)

"Revolving financial management:" Puea Thai style

rw.jpg

Nice!

With your revolving modell u have a fair chance to win 1/37.

But with the rice scheme the chance, that the thai people win anything is 0 (Zero)

If you buy a reproducible product continually for 14,000 Baht/ton and the world market price for these good is 10,000 Baht/ton,

then the loss is due the system, pre-programmed.

But this is a state secret.

View on reform sought?

Reform to appoint exactly the same 312 members as before?

Within the "party":
No new thoughts?
No new faces?
No new ideas?
No intellectual, critical, self-reflective, debate?
No full party Assembly with elections and votes on party goals?

Where are the reform ideas please?

Also with the same slogan?
"One thinks, and all other do"
Sounds for me pretty stupid, if only one person thinks.

May better:
"All think and all do"

How about a change, and holding a party congress?

What a pity.

Interesting opinions.

I'm not afraid that Suthep will build up a Kingdom/ dictatorship or what ever for himself.

He did not have any support for that. He knows that.

He is the man for the rough ton. His goal is to stop the Shin clan.

Coincidentally, that would also mean defacto to stop the corruption in the country now.

So why everybody let him move and shout?

The police could sacked him, the army could sacked him. The courts could sacked him.

In the background the courts are working now.

- Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong gets one-year imprisonment without suspension

- Abhisit due in court over 2010 crackdown (Suthep will follow sure)

- Bt2 trillion loan bill halted, pending court ruling

- NACC to investigate backers of charter change draft (maybe they ban 312 members)

Maybe a great chance to getting the corruption down in Thailand.

Hopefully it all turns now into an clear anti - corruption movement

with concrete suggestions for improvement.

The frame is clear: Peace and unity.

PS:

- It must be prevented in the future, that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power.

- When public funds are used, then the public has the right to see what the representatives of the people plan to do with the money and how it was used.

I completely disagree with that. Corruption came far before Thaksin, and corruption was running while Abhisit was in charge as well.

So, Suthep, or any Average Joe would not let corruption cease in Thailand. This is sure as birth and death.

About your PS: I guess there is no way to prevent that. Look some cases around the world, even very recent and even our advanced democracies did not prevent that, so sadly.

Sure, agree! Corruption was far before.

But we living today.

Stop corruption now!

The people want it (me included)

You'd think that with all these academics and professional elites they could form a credible and media savvy opposition party - without having to resort to this nonsense which is already causing rifts amongst themselves about the way forward. The ruling party have left themselves wide open time and time again for a well organised opposition party to gain extensive political ground - and thereby put themselves in a stronger position at the next (real) general election - but no, let's all blow whistles and throw our tantrums and make demands without providing any real solutions. I feel better now, rant over

In a flash, it was announced that YL is the No.1 candidate in the next election.

Was there a party congress between?

Was there a vote/referendum within the party about it?

You know the answer?

I can't help wondering how much of his frozen 46 billion Thaksin has had replaced by the tax payers of the kingdom since he put his puppet in the top spot....?

Well as a rough guide, using the figures kindly given by tomacht8 in post 88 I would say he has replaced his frozen 46 Billion with around....600 Billion plus or minus a few billion.

No one can say where all the money has remained exactly as long as there are no reliable figures are available.

I do not understand why there is no institution which quickly brings light into the darkness.

There are too many family members and friends in leading positions.

I hope Thailand get there quite quickly a clear view by neutral bodies together, to check the state finances

This can't be the same Somchai Wongsawat can it? The one that was banned for politics for 5 years? Thaksin's brother in law, milquetoast husband of Yaowapa, is in charge of collecting tax revenue for the country of Thailand? Surely not.

Yes the brother of his Wife introduced the curfew 2004 for the pubs 2am.

"according to Mr. Somchai, the main resource for excise tax comes from alcoholic beverage,"
Come on man.
Who has introduced/changed the curfews and the pubs opening times?
And boost corruption money for some officals "to stretch" the opening times.

For all farmers here.
The rice scheme players:
680 Billion Baht in.
+ rice sales 180 Billion Baht
- 16 Mio ton stock pile now. (value 200 Billion at best)
outstanding loans from BAAC around 80 Billion
BAAC now no money,
so lost: around 600 Billion Baht.
Unfortunately, no concrete numbers of the responsible
Somebody said that is small money,
sorry i do not think so (as a tax payer here).
With this money, every state hospital and every school could have been modernized in Thailand.
A slap in the face for all.

RPC.bmp

I do not want think about, what would have been possible with the money from the rice scheme.
They could have modernize all schools and government hospitals across the country.
Now this money is gone and the country debt has reached a new high.