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Thaiwine
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Posts posted by Thaiwine
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In an interview last Tuesday when he was asked about repercussions of voting to leave Boris said "Look, for some reason some people seem to think that if they vote to leave then when they wake up on Friday things will have changed. On the contrary, everything will be the same, they will get up and go to work and everything will be as normal."
For some reason Boris is not available for comment today, or yesterday come to that. Everyone else is available except for Boris Johnson. Maybe he doesn't want to explain the backtracking on the promises or tell us how the 350 million pounds a week has suddenly become 160 million pounds and Oh! sorry but that won't be going to the NHS after all!
Lots more to come
Is it you don't understand or you don't want to understand?
350mill is the gross we pay to the EU each week 10 bill a year net, when we no longer are in the EU we will have the 350 million a week to spend, if we comtinue to give the money to farmers, councils and all the other groups that currently get EU funding there will be less than 350 mill to spend each week, it's not rocket science!
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Personally I think this will be the end of the EU, at least as we know it. It was a really great idea, but it is so undemocratic and bureaucratic it makes the UN look positively efficient.
It has tons of regulations, but has been completely ineffective in protecting itself or its borders.
I agree...
I think it is fair to say that those who voted Leave had been sold the idea of being on equal status as Norway and Switzerland.
I also think there are may citizens of other countries that are net contributors who want to ditch the bureaucrats, derail the gravy train, kick out benefit tourists, and revert back to just a Free Trading Alliance.
I don't want any of the other options, Norway, Switzerland or whatever we need our own model that suits us, failer to get this means no trade deal so we go to wto rules.
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Oh really. Newsflash for the uninformed: Brexit won.
LOL.
Well, you don't really yet understand how things are done in the educated part of the world. We don't tend to get overly exited over the less informed decisions. We tend to find our ways to get over those.
It's actually the same as in the old days when a wrong monarch was selected to lead the country, his or hers time was up in a moment. Pretty much everybody were happy once the change to better leader happened.
I think you just made very clear why we made the right decision.
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When Scotland realises they would be forced to take the Euro, there would be the same result as last time..45% and proud. But this time i think Scotland should wait until the smoke clears and we see whats on offer.
Don't be so sure of that - the euro is now a better bet than sterling.
I cannot believe how many pop-up "experts," can't get it through their heads this is a war-time proportioned structural shock to the British economy.
And we haven't recovered from the 2008 financial crisis yet.
The 2008 crash was posted at about 7-8% crash, so how bad have the experts predicted this coming crash to be?
Damian McBride who was adviser to Gordon Brown when he was prime minister said the following :-
" “We were close enough in 2008 (if the bank bailout hadn't worked),” he said. “and what's coming is on 20 times that scale”.
people can of course just scoff at this warning but he would have informationon about economic matters that us plebs would never have a clue about
Where did you get "20 times that scale" from?
The article is from last Aug and the only quote in it is "Damian McBride said a coming economic crisis would be worse than the 2008 recession" and there is nothing to suggest he was talking about Brexit.
Also he had to previously resign over a plot to smear top torys including DC's wife over false claims of infidelity on a false website, so he's an unreliable bad boy.
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When Scotland realises they would be forced to take the Euro, there would be the same result as last time..45% and proud. But this time i think Scotland should wait until the smoke clears and we see whats on offer.
Don't be so sure of that - the euro is now a better bet than sterling.
I cannot believe how many pop-up "experts," can't get it through their heads this is a war-time proportioned structural shock to the British economy.
And we haven't recovered from the 2008 financial crisis yet.
The 2008 crash was posted at about 7-8% crash, so how bad have the experts predicted this coming crash to be?
Damian McBride who was adviser to Gordon Brown when he was prime minister said the following :-
" “We were close enough in 2008 (if the bank bailout hadn't worked),” he said. “and what's coming is on 20 times that scale”.
people can of course just scoff at this warning but he would have informationon about economic matters that us plebs would never have a clue about
I just went off to find this video it gives the treasury report of expected gdp down turn of .1%
still a funny video
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Now, what is the real downside of having a re-vote? If people really want to leave the EU, they will run to the polls and say so.
If, after sleeping the hangover off, folks thinking clearly once again, want to stay.. then that's what the people actually want. The 350M/week for NHS was sold as a known lie, which was simple enough to anger many people against the EU.
The second vote is to eliminate the angry votes, the feeling based votes and make people to think before they actually place votes. The second vote is the vote when the populists lies have been proven wrong. A chance.
But hey, this is up to the UK people what they want to do. Second vote would have been one easy way out to cut the losses. For us EU citizens it's quite the same what do you decide to do.
So do whatever you want and please do it fast so that we can make realistic plans for the future.
Thats like saying we run each general election twice just to see what the diffrence is and we go with the most popular, thats not how it works in the UK
No. It's like saying: Fine, you got your steam out, we understand, we all want and need to vent every now and then. There is a high possibility that your poll result didn't really represent what the most of Brits actually want, but it was more of an statement of anger. So why not to make an confirmation run.
Most of the votes don't really deserve another chance. This decision is in the highest possible magnitude and therefore deserves a second chance.
It's just a second vote, nothing more. People's frustration has been noted, even at the centre of the EU. More importantly at the UK, which on your part controls what happens in the EU.
So far UK already lost a lot. This is to cut the losses and secure the future. Wether the be inside of the EU or not. Current result will divide the UK to the point it will break apart. Not something anybody wishes.
I think it would be unwise not to let people to vote again. Each UK-citizen have the same voting right as they did before.
If the UK folks still wish to exit, we'll shake hands and say goodbye for decades of co-operation. I think that is fair for both UK and EU.
What do you think? Fair, not fair?
The UK will break apart anyway, the scottish nationalists will find any and every excuse until they can get a majority in Scotland to leave the UK,
I am not for rerunning elections / referendums. people were told you have one chance use it, they failed to use it knowing the risks they made their choice.
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When Scotland realises they would be forced to take the Euro, there would be the same result as last time..45% and proud. But this time i think Scotland should wait until the smoke clears and we see whats on offer.
Don't be so sure of that - the euro is now a better bet than sterling.
I cannot believe how many pop-up "experts," can't get it through their heads this is a war-time proportioned structural shock to the British economy.
And we haven't recovered from the 2008 financial crisis yet.
The 2008 crash was posted at about 7-8% crash, so how bad have the experts predicted this coming crash to be?
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If we had not voted to leave we would have been under the rule of the E.U. on this. Our government would have caved in even more. Our powers to resist would have diminished drastically. We were already under immense pressure to cave in on immigration.
But it is about more than Syrians etc. It is about controlling the free movement of so many from E.U. countries. Being able to control the riffraff, the criminals, the psychos.
Then there would have been the Turks wanting to com in en masse.
We will also be able to have more control over the quality of immigrants.
If we need doctors, nurses, engineers and other qualified people we can welcome them with open arms.
On the other hand we will no longer have to accept tens of thousands of Poles and others who are basically labourers. We can also take back the right not to have to pay these immigrants things like Family Allowance and other benefits that are sent straight back to their home countries.
But, as I said, it is not simply about immigration, we will be able to free ourselves from the shackles of the non elected E.U. officials and their diktats.
Get ready to be called a racist.
Well put BTW
Well the ignorant can call me a racist all they like.
I'll be called that for not liking all these muslims coming over too. Obviously they will be incorrect because you cannot be a racist for disliking a religion.
They say 'Sticks and stones will break my bones but name will not hurt me."
The muslims will most likely do the worst harm to me then ..... stoning.
Gives a new meaning to getting stoned
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The petition has 2,700,000 signatures and the number is increasing.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
This would be the face saving way for Britain to get out of this mess. First vote was the angry, drunken vote. Now, when even non-politically tuned Brits are realising what the brexit really means, its time to have second, the sober vote.
http://skepticalphilosopher.blogspot.ca/2009/09/persian-strategy-deliberating-while.html
The "I didn't know what I was doing" excuse. I'm thinking that "do overs" aren't should not be allowed.
Now, what is the real downside of having a re-vote? If people really want to leave the EU, they will run to the polls and say so.
If, after sleeping the hangover off, folks thinking clearly once again, want to stay.. then that's what the people actually want. The 350M/week for NHS was sold as a known lie, which was simple enough to anger many people against the EU.
The second vote is to eliminate the angry votes, the feeling based votes and make people to think before they actually place votes. The second vote is the vote when the populists lies have been proven wrong. A chance.
But hey, this is up to the UK people what they want to do. Second vote would have been one easy way out to cut the losses. For us EU citizens it's quite the same what do you decide to do.
So do whatever you want and please do it fast so that we can make realistic plans for the future.
Thats like saying we run each general election twice just to see what the diffrence is and we go with the most popular, thats not how it works in the UK
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Here's a question that will make me real popular with our British cousins. Does anyone think a few percent may have voted differently had the vote been taken before the Euro hooligan brawls hit the news?
And if so, would that mean that the Russkies actually tipped the vote to the Exit side?
Just food for thought and discussion... Go ahead- I asked for it. I'm ready to be lambasted.
I don't think the problems in France over the football affected the vote, during the ref, debates I don't recall it being mentioned at all.
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Citizenship requirements were 3 years of residence which I think only recently changed to 4.... so yes, most would be Canadian citizens or could be in a few months after submitting the paperwork.... On top of that we have those evil french speaking people of almost 25% of the population.... too much risk I would sayIt's about Canada, New Zealand, Australia and the UK, not all 52 commonwealth countries.
Which the article makes quite clear.
You do realize my home town (Toronto) is probably made up of slightly more than 50% of the population being foreign born.... It has made Toronto a much more interesting and diverse city, but if UK has turned it's back on foreigners (those that look foreign).... there are a lot of them in my home city (for most of my adult life).
If they have Canadian citizenship they would be included, some may wish to travel to one of the other 3 countries tho it would hardly be to improve living conditions or financial reasons as we have similer economies, living standards, so proberbaly not a big deal.
I was just thinking what with all the foriegn born people in the UK Australia would never play ball, ohh well I liked the idea
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I blame the media, they could have promoted calm and spoke of democracy, telling the losers to vote for their opinions at the next election, but that is not what big businesses want they want no change
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Here could be the next step, and much better than the EU option
Somehow i don't see allowing visa free travel and removal of work permits for people from the other 52 countries in the commonwealth ranging from Antigua to Zambia as being an answer to our perceived immigration problem particularly if the end up keeping freedom of movement of EU citizens.
It's about Canada, New Zealand, Australia and the UK, not all 52 commonwealth countries.
Which the article makes quite clear.
You do realize my home town (Toronto) is probably made up of slightly more than 50% of the population being foreign born.... It has made Toronto a much more interesting and diverse city, but if UK has turned it's back on foreigners (those that look foreign).... there are a lot of them in my home city (for most of my adult life).
If they have Canadian citizenship they would be included, some may wish to travel to one of the other 3 countries tho it would hardly be to improve living conditions or financial reasons as we have similer economies, living standards, so proberbaly not a big deal.
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Here could be the next step, and much better than the EU option
Somehow i don't see allowing visa free travel and removal of work permits for people from the other 52 countries in the commonwealth ranging from Antigua to Zambia as being an answer to our perceived immigration problem particularly if the end up keeping freedom of movement of EU citizens.
It's about Canada, New Zealand, Australia and the UK, not all 52 commonwealth countries.
Which the article makes quite clear.
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I cannot claim to have found this myself - from a Reddit/r/UnitedKingdom post today:
"If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership."
Admittedly I did not read the whole comment (a bit on the long side) but his reasoning seems to be DC lied, hmm not a valid reason
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Here could be the next step, and much better than the EU option
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I hope its Boris, we now need the people in charge who were responsible for this decision so that in a few years they can either take credit for what has happened or be called to account.
I hope its not Boris, he was one of the biggest liars after Farage during the prereferendum debates, for most of the elections during the last 50 years i have voted conservative but i wont if Boris is in the running to be PM as far as i am concerned he is a self serving hypocrite who only supported Brexit to get rid of David Cameron and have a chance to be PM
I don't think Boris is a good idea, but I don't think Farage is/was a liar, he was used by the Leave camp to do the dirty work on immigration Leave group had nothing to do with Ukip all along, now they cold shoulder him and claim anything he said or promised was nothing to do with us,
Welcome to the dirty world of politics.
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The people wanting a 60/40 results on referendums need to sell the idea to the scots first
Good luck with that one
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The petition just went over 2.000.000 signatures.
I have been sent this, this is how they are getting so many names
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America.... always ready to give the rest of the world its views about what it thinks.
Are the UK people interested in what America thinks about them...... NO!
You act like the "rest of the world" doesn't return the favor. On this forum it certainly does.
Jak speaks for himself, and I disagree with him
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Having looked at this though there is an extremely high price to pay. Britain leaves without any trade agreements in place with Europe. These will have to be renegotiated over many years. That might only effect financial services though, but it will be decimated as far as European activities are concerned unless a trading permit is obtained. In order to trade in Europe banks will have to set up Head Offices in Eurozone. That will also include the British Banks. The pound would likely be devalued further. The present welfare system could not possibly be sustained, or such a sizable army supported. A deep recession would likely occur, probably on the scale of what Russia is incurring. The immigration problem would undoubtedly be solved, quite simply people won't want to come here.
Living in Thailand suddenly appears a whole lot better proposition to me. Even if the pound plummets. I am planning around 40 baht to pound as an emergency measure. I'm sure England will rebuild over time though. Very resourceful people.
we are not yet 2 days after the results were announced and it is now the weekend, please calm down we had enough crap spouted by DC and co for the past few weeks, the only thing that has happened the pound dropped 2 baht, markets are coming back after 1 day, you are not helping the country by peddling rumors and scare stories
Perhaps I'm overstating. Equally, I'm sure you are understating. It'll be tough.
I don't think it helps the country by leaving in all honesty. Christ!
what an own goal.!Really hope these negotiations go well.
We can still trade with the EU with no deal, that would be under wto rules, other non treaty countries trade with the EU countries so can we, we have two years to sort out our relationship with the EU the only diffrence in those two years is we will not be able to influence future polices, and quite rightly too. As I understand it passporting is done by companies not the govenment, they can just open an office in an EU country like Ireland then carry on as before, (someone correct me if I am wrong on that one)
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Having looked at this though there is an extremely high price to pay. Britain leaves without any trade agreements in place with Europe. These will have to be renegotiated over many years. That might only effect financial services though, but it will be decimated as far as European activities are concerned unless a trading permit is obtained. In order to trade in Europe banks will have to set up Head Offices in Eurozone. That will also include the British Banks. The pound would likely be devalued further. The present welfare system could not possibly be sustained, or such a sizable army supported. A deep recession would likely occur, probably on the scale of what Russia is incurring. The immigration problem would undoubtedly be solved, quite simply people won't want to come here.
Living in Thailand suddenly appears a whole lot better proposition to me. Even if the pound plummets. I am planning around 40 baht to pound as an emergency measure. I'm sure England will rebuild over time though. Very resourceful people.
we are not yet 2 days after the results were announced and it is now the weekend, please calm down we had enough crap spouted by DC and co for the past few weeks, the only thing that has happened the pound dropped 2 baht, markets are coming back after 1 day, you are not helping the country by peddling rumors and scare stories
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Good comment in the Indy . . .
There is and will be nothing to stop you travelling in the EU. The EU will offer visa free travel as it does to most countries. British tourists spend more money in the EU than any other nationality and some Southern economies would be devastated without it.
Few of Britain's students studying abroad for full degrees are in the EU. Most are in the other English speaking countries. EU universities will still offer language and other courses to British students and we will do the same to them. These reciprocal arrangements were in place post War to boost language skills, they predate the EU. My dad went from a council flat in Scotland to the Sorbonne in 1951. This idea that exchange degrees will end is made up. No one is proposing this.
The majority of young British people who live and work abroad do so in Australia, Canada and USA. Many also work in India and China and around the planet. There are more British in Australia than all 27 countries of the EU added together. Let's face it, how many people want to work for Slovenian or Romanian pay compared to American?
Most British young people do not actually have the language skills to work in the EU. How is your Danish, Swedish, Dutch or Flemish? The pay is too low in all of the southern and eastern states which is why they are here and we are not there.
But if people do want to work abroad they will apply for and get jobs and visas just as they do for Australia etc.
I got about a third of the way down before I got fed up with the biased sensationalism,
German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said the European Union has "no need to be particularly nasty in any way" in the negotiations with Britain about its exit from the bloc.
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Can things get much worse? George George where for art thou?
http://newsthump.com/2016/06/25/concerned-nation-joins-hunt-for-missing-george-osborne/
what an own goal.!
Massive petition calls for EU referendum re-run
in World News
Posted
Or theres this one
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/125333