jeffandgop

4 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

If other jurisdictions that follow the same template tax treaty became tax havens, that could be interpreted to support the capricious interpretation of the US-Thai tax treaty at hand.   I have not heard of any such countries being tax havens based on an equivalent interpretation

No one is asserting that the successful application by some tax filers to not be required to pay U.S. tax based on their justification per the U.S. Thailand Tax treaty represents as a "tax haven"; and that you have "not heard" that there are- or are not- tax filers doing the same in other foreign countries with a similar tax treaty does not lend any credence to Thailand necessarily being the only foreign country where US citizens may enjoy this limited benefit.

I was part of that discussion back in 2019 as I too was considering filing amended returns to recover taxes I had paid on my 401K withdrawals.  I made the decision to proceed with filing to recover those taxes on the basis of the Thailand-US Tax Treaty and engaged AITA and filed 4 years worth of amended returns.

Two of the amended returns were rejected; one for "You did not provide a correct treaty"; and the other because "You did not indicate an inappropriate Tax Treaty".  Both explanations were nonsense since my returns absolutely included a full and complete Form 8833 and supporting documentation.  I did not receive at that time any letters from the IRS regarding the other two amended returns.

I decided to try to call the IRS and 3 days after receiving those two letters reached a supervisor of the tax office handling these types of amended returns.  On a Saturday in the U.S. no less.  After checking my amended returns in the system, the supervisor acknowledged that the agents who issued those rejection letters were in error and that all 4 amended returns were complete and that she would re-assign all 4 amended returns to her desk for processing.

I received all 4 refunds within the following 4 weeks.  I have never received any other requests or followups from the IRS. I've never been audited.

The best authority is NOT the tax treaty itself.  The best authority is how the IRS APPLIES the tax treaty to tax filers.  To say that those taxpayers who have been successful only because a junior IRS agent made a mistake is argumentative and not in evidence.

15 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, The process will be easier to understand if you realize that the bank is buying the car. Any car loan/finance etc, the bank/finance is the new owner in the blue book. The bank is buying the car, the bank will pay you. Anything else is between the bank and the guy getting the loan.

The process of funding an account, that you then draw on, sounds convoluted but is most likely the way the bank does it.

The bank is putting the money into a newly created account, (the account probably belongs to the bank, not the buyer). 

Its probably more for the banks internal checks and balances. they dont want to hand out cashiers cheques or put funds into 3rd party accounts etc. They will have a clear record of the transaction, the loan was funded into account X and the seller drew the money from account X.

The account name is probably Trustee account for buyername/sellername.

 

Thank you but no, that is not correct in this instance.  The bank will loan/fund the Buyer's account that the bank requires the Buyer to set up.  The Buyer is really a Borrower at this point.  They are borrowing from the bank using the car as collateral for a personal loan.  That's why I will be transferring title to the Buyer first. The bank will apply a lien against the asset so that the Buyer/Borrower cannot sell the car until the loan is paid off.  The bank is neither buying the car or paying me directly.  The account name is in the name of the Buyer/Borrower.

My "security" to be willing to transfer title before receiving payment includes (1) holding the Buyer/Borrower's account passbook and ATM card so they cannot access the money without me that the bank will put in the account the day after the transfer; (2) holding the Buyer's Blue Book; (3) retaining the car; and (4) receiving 35% down payment before title transfer.

Only after I go to the bank with the Buyer to withdraw the newly placed funds in the Buyer's account does Buyer get possession of everything I will be holding on to.

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

Would have thought the book transfer to the bank, not the buyer.

Normally my experience as well. Here in Thailand the bank will put in lien in the Blue Book

20 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Hey buddy, do us all a favor and next time when you have a question that you only want to hear what you want to hear and confuse everybody, take it somewhere else will you?...

Really? My question should invite or accept replies that don't answer the question and if I don't want non-responsive answers I have no right to post a question in the first place?

17 hours ago, jeffandgop said:

You are not understanding the limited scope of my query.  I know I can go to MY bank and ask what THEIR process is.  I know what the prospective Seller's bank process is- a different bank than mine.  And we all know from experience that how processes are defined are not always what occurs.  That is why my question is- and remains- has anyone had an experience with the process I have described?  I am not asking for any other advice.  I am fully acquainted with what is the experience most of have had- money first to the Seller then the transfer of the property or goods to the Seller.  This is the opposite.  That's why I am "asking strangers" if they have had a similar experience. Nothing more. Nothing less. Not eliciting opinions from anyone that hasn't actually gone through the process I have described in my original posting.  Nothing arrogant.  Just trying to focus the conversation.

Correction.  It should be "money first to the Seller then the transfer of the property or goods to the Buyer. "

33 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Yes, it is a lot of arrogance from your side. People here are telling you how they have been selling their cars and how they look at the problem at hand. Just live with it and make up your mind after the information given to you. As another choice you can just wait until a person answers that have made the same kind of transaction. The problem, though, is that you are asking for an experience from people that is so far off normality, that there probably does not exist such person. I would never do a sale that way, and as I understand it, that´s what people hear trying to help you also says.

What is arrogant is your posture that I should welcome unsolicited advice. You, as some others, have not cared to address the specific question which is not "What Would You Do" nor "How Would You Do It" or "What is Your Opinion on this Sales Process". Because this process is different than the standard, I have asked the community only if anyone has gone through the same or if they know this process is normal in Thailand where a Buyer needs a bank loan.  That, and only that, is the information I am seeking.  Yes, it seems "far off normality", but there is a person in this thread who replied that they did have a similar experience; and the Buyer's bank's own website describes their process in loaning funds to Buyer's of used cars- they have to have ownership first and it's then a loan to the Buyer/Owner up to the value of the asset and the asset is the collateral.

8 minutes ago, lom said:

What kind of security for you as seller is the buyers passbook if the buyer also gets and keeps an ATM card for the account?

I also keep the ATM card....

11 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

The buyer in the OP is probably asking the bank to finance it as opposed to obtaining a (probably unsecured) personal loan as your purchaser likely did.  That would explain the bank's interest in the car as it would be taking the title.

Correct.  And the bank is using the auto as the collateral requiring the car to be in the Buyer's name BEFORE giving the Buyer the loan to pay me, the Seller....at the time of the Blue Book Transfer to the Buyer's name, I will be retaining/possessing:

1. Buyer's passbook of the account Buyer had to open per the bank which will deposit the loan amount into the account.

2. The "sold" car's Blue Book.

3. The car itself.

Only after the bank has put the funds into Seller's account (24 hours after the Blue Book transfer) and it is subsequently withdrawn and given to me will I turnover/release to the Buyer the Blue Book and the car.

35 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

"paid in good faith"

Doesn't appear good faith is involved from the seller's viewpoint.

Transfer to buyer isn't initiated until payment by buyer to seller is made. Until then the seller possess both the vehicle and Blue book. If there's any good faith it's the expectation of the buyer that payment results in quick transfer.

This is where you got it incorrect.  The process I described in my original post is that I am being required to transfer to the Buyer title to the car BEFORE reaching any money- in fact, the process will require I wait at least 24 hours after transferring the title to receive the payment for the car....it is me, the Seller, that the transfer results in a quick payment.

4 minutes ago, TheFishman1 said:

Seems like a few people have giving you good advice or you reply sounds awfully arrogant why don’t you go to your bank and ask them what the procedure is instead of asking strangers here then you’ll know for sure sounds awfully fishy TIT

You are not understanding the limited scope of my query.  I know I can go to MY bank and ask what THEIR process is.  I know what the prospective Seller's bank process is- a different bank than mine.  And we all know from experience that how processes are defined are not always what occurs.  That is why my question is- and remains- has anyone had an experience with the process I have described?  I am not asking for any other advice.  I am fully acquainted with what is the experience most of have had- money first to the Seller then the transfer of the property or goods to the Seller.  This is the opposite.  That's why I am "asking strangers" if they have had a similar experience. Nothing more. Nothing less. Not eliciting opinions from anyone that hasn't actually gone through the process I have described in my original posting.  Nothing arrogant.  Just trying to focus the conversation.

10 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

"paid in good faith"

Doesn't appear good faith is involved from the seller's viewpoint.

Transfer to buyer isn't initiated until payment by buyer to seller is made. Until then the seller possess both the vehicle and Blue book. If there's any good faith it's the expectation of the buyer that payment results in quick transfer.

I'm the Seller...are you suggesting that my Q is indicating a lack of "good faith" on my part?

Just now, jeffandgop said:

What bank and when did this occur?  Thanks!!

Sounds like the loan was given without the truck being collateral or any lien against the title by the bank....

30 minutes ago, Isaanlife said:

Our buyer viewed our truck first, took some photos, VIN,  got a bank loan and came to pick up the vehicle with cash. Once we saw he had the cash we went and had the title changed over. We never met with anyone from the bank.

What bank and when did this occur?  Thanks!!

6 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

If I told you it was normal, would you proceed ?

 

Sometimes people give out advice when things don't sound right regardless if you asked for it or not and it sounds like great advice to me, suffice to say people you don't even know are watching your back.

 

The above said, why don't you ask a bank, and then you will get the answer your looking for, with all due respect. 

 

If I told you it was normal, would you proceed ?  Yes.  And thank you for your input.

Gentlemen:

With all due respect, I am not seeking advice on HOW it should be done.  My posting would indicate I am questioning the process as I laid out and asking persons who KNOW whether this is normal in Thailand or not.  Alternatively, if you have specific EXPERIENCE selling your car to a third party who had to obtain a bank loan to purchase the car and their process was different, then I would appreciate those specifics.

Selling my used car.  No liens, etc.  Buyer has to get a bank loan to finance the purchase.  Bank rep came yesterday to check my car and verify there VIN. Bank rep said the process is for the Seller, Buyer & Bank Rep to go to the DLT where the Buyer transfers car ownership to the Bank via recording the transfer in the Blue Book.  No money from the Buyer/Bank to the Seller during this transaction. Seller, no longer the owner of the car, walks away with the updated Blue Book and the car at this time and Buyer's new passbook (see next para.).

Then, in a few days time, the Bank funds the loan amount to the Buyer, Buyer having earlier created a new account with the Bank for the bank loan.  The account passbook and ATM card has given to the Buyer at the DLT when the Blue Book is updated.  Once the bank loan money is in the account then the Buyer will withdraw the amount, give to Seller, who then turns over the Blue Book and car to the Buyer.

Is this the normal process? Changing the ownership of the car to the bank and then the Seller waits for the money to be paid in good faith?

This works...

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

On Thursday the PWA engaged in some major waterworks in the area and it was announced that the water would be turned off from 10AM to 8PM for the work to be accomplished. The affected areas included from approximately Maejo U to Outer Ring Road along 1001.....

8 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

Who told you that?

 

In the car ownership blue book, who is the registered owner and what city is their address as stated ?

I am the registered owner and the city is Bangkok where I used to reside and where I purchased the car new originally. The Blue Book has that Bangkok address where I had lived.

I am selling my Honda CRV. I live in Chiang Mai and my DL has my Chiang Mai address and I also have a Yellow Tambien Baan with my Chiang Mai address.

The car was originally purchased in Bangkok and has a Bangkok license plate.

The Buyer lives in Chiang Mai as well.

How do I transact the sale with the Land Transport Office here in Chiang Mai?  I'm being told I have to drive the car to the Bangkok Land Transport Office in order to accomplish the sale!!???

I am selling my Honda CRV. I live in Chiang Mai and my DL has my Chiang Mai address and I also have a Yellow Tambien Baan with my Chiang Mai address.

The car was originally purchased in Bangkok and has a Bangkok license plate.

The Buyer lives in Chiang Mai as well.

How do I transact the sale with the Land Transport Office here in Chiang Mai?  I'm being told I have to drive the car to the Bangkok Land Transport Office in order to accomplish the sale!!???

I have read the June 2020 updated issued from the Royal Thai Police. Thank you Ubonjoe.

I conclude that so long as I return to the CM residence of record as registered in my TM30 before my current annual extension of stay expires (April 2022), then I would not have to update THAT TM30 upon my return.  It is still the responsibility of the house owner or landlord to submit to immigration my presence here in Samui.

However, a 90-day report can only be submitted to the immigration office located in the jurisdiction of your registered address.  Samui IO was correct to update my TM30 registered residence in order to process my 90 day report. (I only went to Samui to do ta 90 day report as I would be officially late after tomorrow- 5 days before my return to CM.).  When I return to CM I will have to update my TM30 registered address back to my address I permanently reside in.

Thanks for your inputs.

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The OP had to do a TM30 report to change his address to Samui to the 90 day report.

A TM30 report is only required now if you change your address or enter with a new visa. The rules were changed in June of 2021.

Understood.  Please if you have anything that to show that rule change I'd appreciate it.

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You made a mistake when you tried to do the 90 day report at Samui. For several years now you can only do it at the immigration office where you are registered at unless you change your address to that office.

You should of mailed your report to CM or tried to do it online.

A TM30 report is only required now if you change your address or enter with a new visa.

90 day mistake. ok. and I did try to do it online...the last two periods when it was due I tried online and the dreaded "report to imm" was the response.  so beyond the 90 day, the Q is still the TM30 regulatory requirement to when updates/changes are required.  Have I "changed my address" by visiting another province for 2 months? If "no" where can I find something from immigration authorities that support this condition?