Norlund

18 minutes ago, scorecard said:

My mistake. I assumed visa exempt was in fact a type of visa (issued on arrival with no application etc., to folks from a list of specific countries).

 

Obviously I'm wrong, my error.

You are not really wrong because you need to have a visa to stay in Thailand apart from the Visa Extemtion. 

8 hours ago, scorecard said:

If you're a foreigner how can you actually be in Thailand if you don't have a visa? (Unless you're on an extension or have PR?)

You can enter and stay in Thailand without a visa. It's called Visa Exemption. At the moment it is 45 days and probably 45 days more if you apply for an extension at the Immigration Office. If you want a longer stay than 45 + 45 days you can either apply for a change of Visa Exemption to a Non Immigrant Visa form TM87 or leave Thailand and come back again on a visa.

26 minutes ago, klauskunkel said:

I explain it to you;

A visa is like a new shirt. When you arrive at border control the IO looks at your shirt, the pattern, the weave and the fabric and decides whether this shirt is good enough to enter Thailand. If he lets you enter, your shirt changes its status from new to used. You are still wearing the same shirt, it's just used now, and you will wear this same shirt for your whole stay in Thailand. Some people have reason to change their shirt, maybe it became smelly after 45 days, or they are bored with it and want to try a different style, well lucky for those people there are forms that let them change their stiff-collared arrival shirts into for example more comfortable t-shirts.

I hope this clears it up for you 

In other words you do NOT loose your visa (shirt) when you enter Thailand. You can change it, but not loose it. 

8 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Please explain how many folk have obtained a non O based on retirement or marriage from visa exempt entry.

 

They never even entered Thailand with a visa.

Granted different form (TM87).

 

You really are being difficult.

The guys that posted in your thread are very experienced.

 

What are you really asking about. 

 

You do not need to have a valid visa.

For TM86 you need to show entry into Thailand with tourist visa. 

Full stop. Move on. 

 

If you come to Thailand with a tourist visa and after 90 days want to stay in the country longer than these 90 days without having to leave the country, there is a form called TM86 that you can fill out and together with various other documents apply for changing a tourist visa into a Non Immigrant Visa. If you are not a magician and can remove the visa stamp and get a Visa Exemption stamp in your passport instead, you must use form TM86 NOT TM87.

The requirement is not that you HAD a tourist visa on arrival in Thailand and lost it when you passed the passport control, but that you actually need to have a tourist visa the moment you apply to change your visa. And this is what the Immigration Office says. Please NOTIS the word "has" NOT "had".

"1.1 Form TM.86 for the foreigner, who has Tourist or Transit Visa and want to applies for a change of type of visa (from Tourist Visa or Transit Visa to Non-Immigrant Visa);"

4 minutes ago, Caldera said:

Since we're splitting hair: You don't "lose" a single-entry visa upon entry, it's just stamped "used", which means that you cannot enter with it again. It does not mean that you cannot extend your stay or apply for a non-immigrant visa, if you qualify.

You are not "splitting hair" at all because you are absolutly correct according to the immigration office. 

I found the answer to my question on the Immigration Office website. And it states clearly that you NEED to have a visa. 

"1.1 Form TM.86 for the foreigner, who has Tourist or Transit Visa and want to applies for a change of type of visa (from Tourist Visa or Transit Visa to Non-Immigrant Visa);"

https://www.immigration.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/9.FOR-RETIREMENT-PURPOSES-50-YEARS-OLD-NON-O.pdf

24 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Strange that every day people obtain a non O from a tourist visa entry. 

Clearly you are playing games.

If you really want guidelines of how to obtain a non O from tourist visa entry ....then ask.

 

 

It seems like you do not get my point. And the point is that many foreigners in Thailand say that you loose your visa the moment you pass the passport control. And IFF so is true how can you change from a tourist visa to a Non Immigrant Visa at the Immigration Office.

IFF you say that you DO NOT loose your tourist visa and you have one when you fill out form TM86 I will agree with you. Because that is the only logical explanation. 

12 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

I think you're just being silly now. on ignore, peace out. 

The heading says "Change Of Visa" and you think I am "silly" because I can read and understand what it says? 

10 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

like I said, it's a convenient way of describing the situation.

No it is not. Form TM86 is a form you fill out when you want to change a tourist visa to a Non Immigrant Visa. Or do you another idea for what this form is for?

4 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

I think maybe they're not explaining it very well. you don't "lose" it, it's effectively exchanged for a 60 day permission to stay. then marked USED so that the next immigration officer doesnt have to go hunting through your passport for the entry stamp. is this your first Tourist Visa entry?

IFF they exchange the tourist visa to a "permission to stay" you DO NOT have a visa. And consequently you can not use form TM86 and change someting you do not have.  

2 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

it's just shorthand and makes it easier for the average Joe to understand. also easier than saying something like "FORM TO APPLY FOR NON-IMMIGRANT O VISA AFTER ENTERING ON A TOURIST VISA". Or something equally unwieldy.

 

all caps used to mimic the TM86 form. 

It says "Change Of Visa". And that means you MUST have a visa. Whatever that visa is. 

9 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

no, your don't "lose" your Tourist Visa. you're given a 60 day permission to stay and as a result the visa sticker in your passport is stamped "USED". The 60 days will be indicated by a stamp in your passport which can be on a different page to the visa sticker.

 

you can extend that 60 day permission to stay once, for a further 30 days. 

 

I'm assuming you used the new e-visa system and had a printout of it with you. The officer taking that printout from you is, I suppose, the equivalent of the old USED stamp as described above. Plus he'll make a corresponding note in the immigration database.

 

Look in your passport for the 60 day stamp. That will show you the exact date up to you are permitted to stay in the Kingdom.

I have been told over and over on FB and on fora online that you loose your visa the moment you pass the officer at the passport control. Are they all wrong?

14 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

You are extending your new non immigrant visa entry.  Your tourist visa entry is gone.  So now, if meeting other requirements, you can extend one year at a time using TM.7

Extending the Non Immigrant Visa? You mean "Extension Of Stay"?

The only logical explanation is that you don't loose your visa at the passport controll. 

9 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

And you never even had a visa if you entered visa exempt and filled in TM87 to apply for non O.

 

It's not difficult.

If you have serious questions to assist with process from visa exempt or tourist visa to obtaining a non O then ask away. 

 

I know I can apply for a Non Immigrant Visa when I have a Visa Exemption but that's not the point. What I can't understand is why I need a tourist visa when I fill in form TM86 when I loose the tourist visa at the passport controll. It doesn't make any sense.

6 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Come on.

The tourist visa or visa exempt has given a permission of stay.

Within that period you can apply for eg non O based on marriage or retirement.

End of. 

Not difficult

 

I don't need a permission of stay I need a tourist visa. Please read TM86 and you will se. 

6 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

It has been pointed out the tourist visa is irrelevant. Apart from which form to use. 

 

Tourist visa or visa exempt gives you a permit stamp.

 

With 15 days + remaining on that permit you can apply for a non O.

 

Which part don't you understand 

There is a form TM86 you fill out when you want to change a tourist visa to a Non Immigrant Visa. The problem is that "every one" tells me that I loose my tourist visa when I leave the passport controll when I arrive to Thailand. Which means I DO NOT HAVE a tourist visa I can change at the Immigration Office 2 month later. And that doesn't make any sense. 

8 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

You can obtain a non O from visa exempt entry or tourist visa entry.

Both give a permission of stay.

Within that period you can obtain a non O that gives a 90 day stamp.

Obviously there are requirements for the non O application 

Then again. You do not have a visa when you fill out the form TM86. So I do't understand how you can change someting you don't have. 

3 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

It changes your entry visa or visa exempt entry just as a TM87 provides a visa entry.  You then get the permitted to stay time such a visa entry allows and can extend your permitted to stay with a TM7.

What happens when you want an "Extension Of Stay"? Because that is based on the visa you arrived with. And that was a tourist visa. It doesn't make any sense. 

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

A TM86 form is used to change a tourist visa entry to a=non immigrant via.

A TM87 form is used to apply for a non immigrant visa if you have a visa exempt entry.

List of the categories of non immigrant that can be changed to applied for and by clicking on the description the requirements for each category will open as a PDF file. https://www.immigration.go.th/en/?page_id=2537

The forms TM86 and TM87 are not the issue here. The issue is how to change a visa you do not have. 

3 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

OP, assumed you entered on tourist visa. If so then use TM86.

If you entered visa exempt then use TM87.

 

You enter on a tourist visa. A visa you loose the second you step outside the passport controll. So how is it possible to use TM86 when you don't have a visa?

The general attitude is that a visa is a permission to enter Thailand and that you loose this visa when you cross the border.

There is a form TM86 which has the following heading "APPLICATION FOR CHANGE OF VISA". So how is it possible to convert a visa that one does not have?

https://www.thaiguiden.no/resources/download/tm86.pdf

I have lived in Thailand for 20 years now and it still amazes me this believe some foreigners have that a one year extension of a Non Immigrant Visa is a Resident Permit. And this is for one reason only. It is the word "stay" on the stamp we get in the passport that makes the problem. But they can easily find out by reading on the Immigration Bureau site. And if they do they  interprets this as a prove of it is a Residence Permit. I don't know if I'm going to laugh or cry. 

https://www.immigration.go.th/en/?p=14714

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